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Uber
August 10th, 2005, 12:54 PM
I've been wondering something and I'd love for one or more of the best and my favorite geeky, scientificky brainiacs who frequent this section *cough*Owen*cough* to give me their best guesses on these. (I mean I'd ask Colonel Carter, but she's off doing her thing right now and hasn't been returning my calls... :rolleyes: )

Okay I know what a stargate is and does. I also know that when activated, the HEADS side kawooshes and people run through the event horizon travel through subspace and emerge from another stargate far, far away.

But what about the TAILS side of the stargate? Can you run through the back of an outgoing wormhole (because the wormhole itself is outside our space/time dimension and therefore not visible to the naked eye) or would running through the TAILS side be tantamount to running into the KAWOOSH? Or would it be like a force field preventing you from going through from the back side? Or would it just be like running through it while deactivated?

Also, regarding the kawoosh, something else has been bugging me. How is it that a portion of the SGC platform cuts into where the event horizon is? Or for a better example, how is it that in certain worlds, the gate is embedded into the floor? Wouldn't the kawoosh create a divot in the surface?

Okay my friends. Geek away.

:cool:

Three PhDs
August 10th, 2005, 01:02 PM
But what about the TAILS side of the stargate? Can you run through the back of an outgoing wormhole (because the wormhole itself is outside our space/time dimension and therefore not visible to the naked eye) or would running through the TAILS side be tantamount to running into the KAWOOSH? Or would it be like a force field preventing you from going through from the back side? Or would it just be like running through it while deactivated?My guess is just as it would be when deactivated. The wormhole only links a circle of spacetime to the same region on the other gate. Between the space at the back of the wormhole and the front there's nothing stopping anyone walking through.


Also, regarding the kawoosh, something else has been bugging me. How is it that a portion of the SGC platform cuts into where the event horizon is? Or for a better example, how is it that in certain worlds, the gate is embedded into the floor? Wouldn't the kawoosh create a divot in the surface?A jet of steam will melt butter, but clean steel.

Qasim
August 10th, 2005, 01:02 PM
Also, regarding the kawoosh, something else has been bugging me. How is it that a portion of the SGC platform cuts into where the event horizon is? Or for a better example, how is it that in certain worlds, the gate is embedded into the floor? Wouldn't the kawoosh create a divot in the surface?I dont know about the other question but for this one I think the gates have been built like that and there isnt anything below the platform on the other worlds

As for the SGC if you look here http://www.stargatecaps.com/sg1/s9/903/html/stargate2866.html the kawoosh only comes out of the centre of the gate :)

_Owen_
August 10th, 2005, 01:10 PM
Hey, lol. Of course I would be happy to help. Well for your question there is no certain answer because there is more than one possiblilty.

1. The person will simply emerge out the heads end of the Stargate by simply passing through the event horizon, they aren't dematerialized or anything, just like walking through (somehow) a wall of standing water. lol

2.

a) The person is dematerialized. But they are not sent through the wormhole, they are simply converted into energy and the energy is released into the outer ring of Stargate which then directly powers the gate.

b) Then the derivitive of this idea is the massive amounts of energy from the converted matter is released through the other end of the Stargate and kils everyone. Of course this is not a very happy, nor safe idea, so what say we just forget about it alltogether.

Number one, is by far the safest as the people who do accidently step through, wouldn't die, and it does seem very logical for the Ancients to do this, incase of mistakes. So I would have to go with number one, allthough number two is still a possibility.

As for a forcefield, it doesn't seem likley because we probably would have discovered it already. However, some type of dampening field could allow for number one to work. As you step into the tails end of the gate, you pull the field with you, so you are able to push the event horizon out of the way, as it is dmpened, then eventually the field is spread to thin and it breaks, and you are released the it is quickley reformed over the tails end of the gate, of course you would not feel anything.

If I missed anything tell me and I will be happy to help some more. Nice to hear from you!

Owen Macri

Three PhDs
August 10th, 2005, 01:21 PM
Hey, lol. Of course I would be happy to help. Well for your question there is no certain answer because there is more than one possiblilty.

1. The person will simply emerge out the heads end of the Stargate by simply passing through the event horizon, they aren't dematerialized or anything, just like walking through (somehow) a wall of standing water. lol
This is the only one that makes any sense at all. Think of the shape of the spacetime around the event horizon. Oh and by event horizon I mean the shimmering blue wall that the stargate writers refer to as the event horizon.

Lord §okar
August 10th, 2005, 03:50 PM
A jet of steam will melt butter, but clean steel.
The impression I get is that it would attack the ramp and pedesdtal (off-world) quite nastily, but it comes from the centre of the gate and doesn't actually reach the floor. Leading me to my next point:

How is it that a portion of the SGC platform cuts into where the event horizon is? Or for a better example, how is it that in certain worlds, the gate is embedded into the floor? Wouldn't the kawoosh create a divot in the surface?
Can't you just look and see that the vortex never actually touches the ramp or pedestal?

Qasim
August 10th, 2005, 03:53 PM
The vortex isnt shown for long on the show so Uber probably didnt notice :)

_Owen_
August 10th, 2005, 04:47 PM
This is the only one that makes any sense at all. Think of the shape of the spacetime around the event horizon. Oh and by event horizon I mean the shimmering blue wall that the stargate writers refer to as the event horizon.
Well, the person could be dematerialized, this makes sense.

Owen Macri

~Thor~
August 11th, 2005, 05:38 AM
1. The person will simply emerge out the heads end of the Stargate by simply passing through the event horizon, they aren't dematerialized or anything, just like walking through (somehow) a wall of standing water. lol
Owen Macri
What happens if they walk through the back of the gate, when someone is walking in the front (and they are already partially dematerialized) or if someone is coming out of the gate (incoming wormhole), if the passed straight through and someone was half where they want to go there would be a problem. Which is why I think it would most likely be something like 2



The person is dematerialized. But they are not sent through the wormhole, they are simply converted into energy and the energy is released into the outer ring of Stargate which then directly powers the gate.


Or a force field of some sort. I think a force field would be more likely though, since I don't think the Ancients would design the stargates so that some n00b would kill themself by walkin in the wrong way.

Three PhDs
August 11th, 2005, 08:43 AM
Well, the person could be dematerialized, this makes sense.

Owen MacriThis is something I consistently have problems with. Whilst I acknowlege that the movie and the show mention dematerialising, I never think of wormholes or stargates in that context. I think in terms or real world physics whereby the entrance and exit are literally connected and there is no tunnel no nothing, no reason to dematerialise. It's like that episode I can't remember the name of where Daniel just literally steps through the gate and the camera pans to him emerging on the other side.

cozzerob
August 11th, 2005, 11:35 AM
If you look carefully, you can see a difference between the texture/colour of the gates head's and tails side. The front is a deep blue, and opaque (you can't see through it). The tails side is a lighter blue and is transparent (you can see through it). The only other time (other than as the tails side of a stargate) when we have seen a tails like vortex (ie, light blue and you can see what's behind the gate) was in the episode 48 hours. The gate had to finish a re-intergrating process (namely teal'c) without connecting to a wormhole. The vortex we got was just an event horizon without wormhole to send you anywhere, and it was the same as the tails side of the gate.

This would lead me to believe that the tails side isn't connected to a wormhole and you could just step through to the other side. As for if someone else was walking through the other side - collision detection systems? Or maybe they'd be forced out. We've seen things coming out of the stargate pushing things away that were going in (ie, in 'New Ground' when the malp is coming through, it pushed the guy's hand out of the event horizon).

_Owen_
August 11th, 2005, 12:29 PM
If a person was trying to enter the correct side of the event horizon, and they were already partially into the event horizon, they would most likley die, if my idea is correct, seeing as the event horizon is pushed apart, and the person is pushed backwards, so the part of them which is dematerialized will not come back out. If someone was exiting then they would most likley die as well. Seeing as the person passing through the event horizon would push it apart, causing the person to not be rematerialized, as the event horizon will not be there to rematerialize the dematerialized matter (energy).

Yes, a forcefield would be much better however, I think we would have noticed one by now. But anything is possible.

RE: Three PhDs Post.

Yes, It was actually Jack, in "Shades of Grey," he walks into the Earth gate and it pans directly to some other planet, like it is just one gate.

Owen Macri

cozzerob
August 12th, 2005, 04:01 AM
Possibly, but not necessarily.

We know that when a connection has been established only one of the gates can send matter through the worm hole and one can receive. However, this doesn't mean that either end is excluded from de-matting or -re-matting matter. We've seen on countless occasions ppl put their hands through the gate and then take it out again. That hand doesn't come out of the other side so it must have been de-matted. however, when you pull it out again, it is re-matted. So both ends can perform both actions, but you can only send matter through the wormhole one way.

This would lead me to believe that rather than stepping through the tails side and disrupting the event horizon (like Owen suggested) the gate de-matts you then re-mats you on the other side (the heads side). This also means that the gate can perform collision detection or physically push the entering person/object back out. This way, no-one has to die.

The only possible flaw I can see in this is if you assume that the stargate first sends you to a sub-space buffer, and then de-matts you, but it has been said on multiple occasions that the event horizon does actually de-matt you and then sends you through the sub-space wormhole (ie, in 48 hours (SG1), 38 minutes (SGA), etc {ps - is anyone else seeing a pattern here? ;)}).

_Owen_
August 12th, 2005, 02:48 PM
No, I would tend to believe that the de and rematerialization is available for both event horizons, but only the dialing gate can send energy through the wormhole.

Owen Macri

Lord §okar
August 12th, 2005, 09:36 PM
Radio signals are bidirectional, both gates are clearly capable of sending things through what is clearly a bidirectional wormhole, for reasons unknown the Ancients prohibited matter travelling from the destination to the origin. It hardly makes sense that they'd allow people to step behind the redem curtain. I believe that it's impermeable.

_Owen_
August 12th, 2005, 10:00 PM
Yes, the wormhole itself is completley capable of sending matter and energy both ways. If matter crosses the event horizon, it will be dematerialized, whether it will be transmitted through the wormhole depends on which Stargate is dematerializing the matter. Energy, however, can be sent both ways seeing as it is not dematerialized.

Owen Macri

Lord §okar
August 12th, 2005, 10:02 PM
Ok...

And?

_Owen_
August 12th, 2005, 10:05 PM
And what? That was it. lol. Is there something else you would like to know?

Owen Macri

Lord §okar
August 12th, 2005, 10:09 PM
No, why did you tell us that? I explained why the remote gates redem curtain (a coinage of mine that's now remarkably prolific in the fandom), they call it an event horizon but it's nothing of the sort, is impermeable to object on the receiving end.

_Owen_
August 12th, 2005, 10:13 PM
It is not impermeable, you can pass through it, but it will not transmit you through the wormhole.

Owen Macri

Lord §okar
August 12th, 2005, 10:15 PM
Curses, yes you're right.

_Owen_
August 12th, 2005, 10:16 PM
It is allright I know what you meant, it was just the wrong word.

Owen Macri

captain keys
August 13th, 2005, 02:01 AM
i think that it doesnt matter which side you go to shouldnt the acients thought of that and fixed the problem :S

cozzerob
August 13th, 2005, 08:05 AM
No, I would tend to believe that the de and rematerialization is available for both event horizons, but only the dialing gate can send energy through the wormhole.
Owen Macri

I swear I said that...:


We know that when a connection has been established only one of the gates can send matter through the worm hole and one can receive. However, this doesn't mean that either end is excluded from de-matting or -re-matting matter. We've seen on countless occasions ppl put their hands through the gate and then take it out again. That hand doesn't come out of the other side so it must have been de-matted. however, when you pull it out again, it is re-matted. So both ends can perform both actions, but you can only send matter through the wormhole one way.


Basically, you would just pass through to the other side. the alternatives dont make sense, ie, death - the ancients were too advanced for that + it contradicts evidence from several episodes, and a forcefield would have been mentioned by now. Passing through ids the only logical explanation. If you disagree or don't see why then read my last two posts. Then ask questions. Thankyou, take care and goodnight (although it's still afternoon here...).

Three PhDs
August 13th, 2005, 10:23 AM
Radio signals are bidirectional, both gates are clearly capable of sending things through what is clearly a bidirectional wormhole, for reasons unknown the Ancients prohibited matter travelling from the destination to the origin. It hardly makes sense that they'd allow people to step behind the redem curtain. I believe that it's impermeable.It was more than likely a safety feature to stop lots of unpleasantness flying through into the dialing out location on a world they hadn't been to in a while.

thorshammer
August 13th, 2005, 10:54 AM
If it kills you when you walk through the wrong side why didn't the Ancients put a big wall or iris type thing to stop you from dieing?

Jprime
August 15th, 2005, 12:40 AM
While theories abound as to why the kawoosh fails completely to affect the iris yet forms a wormhole nonetheless, the reason it does not destroy the ramp is clear.

When one views the kawoosh from the side, it becomes clear that about a foot into the gate's diameter a jiggly (horrible word) sort of event horizon is formed (which stabilizes into its usual blue rippling state when the kawoosh flies back into the gate), and THEN the kawoosh flies out. In short, the vortex never touches the ramp.

Jprime
August 15th, 2005, 12:41 AM
If it kills you when you walk through the wrong side why didn't the Ancients put a big wall or iris type thing to stop you from dieing?

It looks waaay cooler this way?

_Owen_
August 15th, 2005, 08:46 PM
That is actually a very good idea, instead of just a ring, a ring with a wall down the back. I guess they decided a ring looked coooler.

Owen Macri