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acce
August 7th, 2005, 08:30 AM
I don't know why they've put her on the show....She is stupid to death... she makes stargate looks stupid and non-serious.... Season 9 would have been good if she was not on the show.....

KILL VALA please!!!!
I praise the lord that she will never come back.....

oragans
August 7th, 2005, 08:46 AM
She is stupid and o'neil was smart. fair enough if you dont like her i aint gonna persuade yo bevause i like her - you can't be serious all the time in the show we need a fourth memebe while carter is out and i think she and daniel have great chemistry

tearsintherain
August 7th, 2005, 08:49 AM
LOL "non-serious"? I personally love her char and thinks she opens up a whole interesting backstory. Stargate needs more characters who have different motivations and desires, not more of the same "lets go team!" cheerleaders.

I was rolling on the floor when she was talking to the senator! Plus her little black leather outfit makes the screen time that much more pleasant :)

David
August 7th, 2005, 09:30 AM
I've toned down the title of this thread. It's perfecty fine to wish the termination of a character, but keep your comments regarding Claudia Black curteous and respectable, or leave them out please.

the fifth man
August 7th, 2005, 09:35 AM
I like her too. It's refreshing to see the side she can bring out in our normally calm and collected daniel jackson. Will hate to see her go (but will be happy to see carter).

BrotherNumsey
August 7th, 2005, 09:59 AM
I don't think she is really stupid, don't know how you got to that, she's just "a bit" sneaky. I think she should stay on the cast she is just a great character, she's very funny and of course her interaction with daniel is great.
I would hate to see her leave.

Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime
August 7th, 2005, 10:02 AM
Her character is interesting and gives us an opportunity to have less conventional Stargate tales.

A shame she didn't have a scene with O'Neill.

Looking forward to her interaction with Carter.

Maybe this thread should be a poll, so we can vote.

valaCB
August 7th, 2005, 10:05 AM
A shame she didn't have a scene with O'Neill.

Im so agree with you :)

Lord Loz
August 7th, 2005, 11:04 AM
I think she's the best character in Stargate so far, and as said previously the new 'shady' worlds and characters she's brought along with her have improved the Stargate universe vastly :)

Qasim
August 7th, 2005, 11:05 AM
I've toned down the title of this thread. It's perfecty fine to wish the termination of a character, but keep your comments regarding Claudia Black curteous and respectable, or leave them out please.I just knew that would happen lol

Anyway from the spoilers I think they are gonna kill her off so everyones happy (apart from those strange people who like vala)

Rogue
August 7th, 2005, 11:31 AM
I don't know why they've put her on the show....She is stupid to death... she makes stargate looks stupid and non-serious.... Season 9 would have been good if she was not on the show.....

KILL VALA please!!!!
I praise the lord that she will never come back.....

I don't like her, don't want her dead, just gone. I think too much focus has been put on her character.

Lord Loz
August 7th, 2005, 11:36 AM
I just knew that would happen lol

Anyway from the spoilers....

Thanks for spoiling.. :(

AGateFan
August 7th, 2005, 11:46 AM
Wouldnt it be ironic if they did kill Vala off and then it turned out that she was the "much loved sorely missed character" that returns in Ripple Effect?


Note that I know no spoilers so I have no clue if Vala dies or who returns in ripple effect other then "much loved sorely missed" person.

Qasim
August 7th, 2005, 12:43 PM
Thanks for spoiling.. :(I havent spoiled anything the spoilers do not say she will die its just my interpretion of one line which could mean a million different things

valaCB
August 7th, 2005, 12:58 PM
I havent spoiled anything the spoilers do not say she will die its just my interpretion of one line which could mean a million different things
I hope it's not true... :eek:

oragans
August 7th, 2005, 12:58 PM
spoilers






from what i heard it will seem she is dead - but the book is open for her to return - hope she does.

Osiris-RA
August 7th, 2005, 01:16 PM
Well, she's not all bad - just insufferably annoying. I swear - it's turning into the Micheal Shanks Show starring Micheal Shanks and Claudia Black and guest starring all those other people from S1-7 and a half. :rolleyes: But, y'know, she's goofy - corrupting - annoying...eh. that's S9.

starellen1
August 7th, 2005, 01:32 PM
Lets just say, I can't wait until Carter comes back(two more weeks). To say you would like to see Vala "killed off", is a bit harsh, don't you think? I actually would not mind her, in smaller increments and I am looking forward to her and Carter interacting.

immhotep
August 7th, 2005, 01:45 PM
i love vala, without here S9 would of been a bore, even without the leather shes a great character and i hope they do loads more, the universe is out there and she has more contacts than any of us, sure they hate her, but she still knows the backwaters like anything, she introduced us to loadsa ppl who we might trade with later and shes a breath of fresh air that only characters like her, and dare is say it tealc and ronan give to a show, without them its just a team going through the gate, saving the world and getting mushy when someone ascends/dies/get injured.

Qasim
August 7th, 2005, 01:46 PM
i love vala, without here S9 would of been a bore, even without the leather shes a great character and i hope they do loads more, the universe is out there and she has more contacts than any of us, sure they hate her, but she still knows the backwaters like anything, she introduced us to loadsa ppl who we might trade with later and shes a breath of fresh air that only characters like her, and dare is say it tealc and ronan give to a show, without them its just a team going through the gate, saving the world and getting mushy when someone ascends/dies/get injured.Shes also made the Lucian Alliance our enemies :) Who needs the backwaters when you have a fleet of deadalus class ships - just blast anyone who stands in our way :)

Furling God
August 7th, 2005, 01:59 PM
If Vala goes I go.

Do you hear that, TBTP ?

Where is the smiley for "ominous threat"?

No kidding, at last a woman character with a life, an actress with a presence and great dialogues. Let's get Carter stuck in some desertic marsh planet, where she will "carry on test" hectically every day and night on every stone, and kill every caterpillar frantically with newly invented deadly alien weapons of hers.

In the meanwhile I'm a volunteer for dinner with Vala :-) ... Carter would just ruin my appetite with her technobabble and perfect carreer and perfect Dad and perfect uniform...

Qasim
August 7th, 2005, 02:01 PM
If Vala goes I go.Goodbye then and Carter does not try to make herself seem perfect (even though she is)

immhotep
August 7th, 2005, 02:21 PM
Shes also made the Lucian Alliance our enemies :) Who needs the backwaters when you have a fleet of deadalus class ships - just blast anyone who stands in our way :)
id quote vala if i could remember what she said to the senetor. *imagine it*

Xanderic
August 7th, 2005, 02:35 PM
well they said Claudia has a busy schedule but if she wants to come back, the door's always open.

Personally, I don't know why people hate her. Seriously, she's a wonderful comic relief like McKay (sometimes, he's just an arrogant prick though) and also it is Season 9.. 9 years of a Stargate program and lots of alien technology. I understand why the appropriations committee would want to cut the budget.... but what Vala said was right... and also a fleet of Daedalus class ships won't stand a fighting chance against the Orii whereas against the Lucien Alliance, it may.

Vala may be a bit stupid but Claudia's a great actor and I'd love to see her again on Stargate as a recurring actor if not stay on SG-1. Seriously though, some people are just too harsh on her... it's only been five episodes. Sheesh. and she's better now I think... in Prometheus Unbound, she was really stupid but after Avalon, I thought she wasn't as dumb as before and now in the Ties that Bind, after she broke Daniel's glasses, she starts behaving a tad bit... except towards the senator... lol

Qasim
August 7th, 2005, 02:36 PM
id quote vala if i could remember what she said to the senetor. *imagine it*Then we will just have to use....Magnets

Xanderic
August 7th, 2005, 02:58 PM
id quote vala if i could remember what she said to the senetor. *imagine it*
Here you go:


Vala: Well it's all just so amusing, isn't it? I mean, only an idiot would assume that this backdoor of a planet would be safe because you have a few ships with decent shield technology. You don't look like an idiot to me. so I have to assume that the reason why you would want to build more ships is: like other men, you like big machines with big engines that fire big missiles because you have a deep sea of need to overcompensate for your own shortcomings.
Senator: Excuse Me.
Vala: See she knows what I mean.
Daniel: I think a good recess is in order.
Vala: I'm done here, anyway.

!Dorentus!
August 7th, 2005, 03:11 PM
I'd like Vala's character if she dressed decently, and wasn't quite as sexually suggestive. She's funny at times, gives a new dimension to the show and to Daniel. I'd miss her fresh youthful infusion to the show if she was gone, but would be happy to see her “needed” sex appeal gone. Besides, I miss Sam.

SunKrux
August 7th, 2005, 03:24 PM
I just knew that would happen lol

Anyway from the spoilers I think they are gonna kill her off so everyones happy (apart from those strange people who like vala)

;) Who you callin' strange? ;) :P

I actually hope they don't kill her off, but let her travel to another planet or something for a bit...then bring her back from time to time. But then I am one of those strange people who love her! :D

Yes it is a shame that she doesn't have ANY scenes with O'Neill...that would be most fun to watch! LOL


I'd like Vala's character if she dressed decently, and wasn't quite as sexually suggestive. She's funny at times, gives a new dimension to the show and to Daniel. I'd miss her fresh youthful infusion to the show if she was gone, but would be happy to see her “needed” sex appeal gone. Besides, I miss Sam.

If they got rid of all the things you dislike, it wouldn't be Vala. It's part of WHO she is. That's like saying, I'd like Carter if they'd put her in sexy dresses more and make her less smart. It wouldn't be Carter anymore. Or, make O'Neill less sarcastic, or Daniel less of a historian, or Teal'C less of a Jaffa fighting to free his people and get them a decent gov't. They would all be totally different characters.

Vala is sexy, regardless of WHAT she's wearing, that's part of who she is. She's the kid that says what everyone else is thinking...she's just not learned that she really shouldn't be saying it. That's why it's funny, at least to me. :D

You know, for me the measure of how talented an actor is, are the passionate responses (both positive and negative) to any given character the actor portrays. I'd say that by the reactions here, that Claudia is awesome! But I've kinda always known that. ;) LOL

Maxum
August 7th, 2005, 03:44 PM
I love Vala.

I can understand why some people feel that for now SG-1 it's a little bit of the Daniel/Vala show, but I'm sure that will all change once Carter returns and Vala exits (unfortunately). Personally, I LOVE the interaction between Daniel and Varla. She brings out a side of him that I have not seen EVER in Daniel Jackson. Usually, he's polite, diplomatic, tries to see the good in everyone, is forgiving, but boy oh boy, does she push his buttons. I really enjoy the banter between them, and although there are posters who seem to hate any kind of romance or shipping in Stargate (it's not a monastery, people), I would like to see something develop between these two, even if it's only one scene.

Right now, with RDA gone from the show, and with Amanda Tapping on temporary leave, it falls to the remaining cast members to pick up the slack. I've read on numerous sites and in interviews that both Chris Judge and Ben Browder don't like to have too much dialogue on-screen (they seem to like action scenes better), then ultimately, it will fall to Michael Shanks aka Daniel Jackson as well as newcomer (albeit temporarily), Claudia Black to fill up the scenes.

I'm going to miss her.

IMForeman
August 7th, 2005, 04:42 PM
I really, really love Vala. She's sexy, and funny, and she's just the sort of character that Stargate has really always lacked: the character who says what she thinks, but never what she actually means.

-IMF

chocdoc
August 7th, 2005, 05:15 PM
I love Vala.

I can understand why some people feel that for now SG-1 it's a little bit of the Daniel/Vala show, but I'm sure that will all change once Carter returns and Vala exits (unfortunately). Personally, I LOVE the interaction between Daniel and Varla. She brings out a side of him that I have not seen EVER in Daniel Jackson. Usually, he's polite, diplomatic, tries to see the good in everyone, is forgiving, but boy oh boy, does she push his buttons. I really enjoy the banter between them, and although there are posters who seem to hate any kind of romance or shipping in Stargate (it's not a monastery, people), I would like to see something develop between these two, even if it's only one scene.

Right now, with RDA gone from the show, and with Amanda Tapping on temporary leave, it falls to the remaining cast members to pick up the slack. I've read on numerous sites and in interviews that both Chris Judge and Ben Browder don't like to have too much dialogue on-screen (they seem to like action scenes better), then ultimately, it will fall to Michael Shanks aka Daniel Jackson as well as newcomer (albeit temporarily), Claudia Black to fill up the scenes.

I'm going to miss her.



I don't think CJ and BB would actually say, please writers, don't give my character too much to say or do!! I really doubt CJ would say, wallpaper me for the first four episodes! Mitchell and Teal'c have, up to this point, been supporting characters. I think we definitely will see Mitchell and Teal'c in future episodes with more to do, but it seems like forever to me.


I'm glad you like Daniel/Vala, but for many of us seeing them front and center for four episodes is just way way way too much! I am bored with it, and the people I watch with are falling asleep---this is very rare. I don't mind that they have a key storyline in the first five episodes, but these two characters have dominated the first four, and it looks like maybe episode five. It is fun to see Daniel react, but to have it literally dominate the show is just too much. I would not continue to watch the show (as much as I think CB is so talented), if it continued in this vein. But it isn't, so ...


But most importantly, I do want Vala to return, but only as a recurring character. She'll be much more effective that way than as a regular on SG1. She isn't a team player and she shouldn't be because that is not her character.

JackDaniel41
August 7th, 2005, 05:43 PM
I don't get all the hype about Vala. I know most think she's funny but I think she's unfunny. She's annoying and I hate that she's become Daniel's "buddy." Comparing her to Jack is like apples and oranges. Jack was a more serious character when SG-1 first began with a few sarcastic lines. Vala just overwhelms you with it. I'd love to see her GO!

Peoples_General
August 7th, 2005, 06:33 PM
I like Vala. I like people who are very outgoing and always speaks their mind. I hang out with such people in real life and love seeing them in TV. Especially when the show they are on is my favorite one.

vinzchlortho
August 7th, 2005, 06:36 PM
How can a true Stargate fan even consider taking her character serious. She is as lame as she was on Farscape. Get rid of her already! This last show was one of the worst ever...are they trying to kill Stargate?

Osiris-RA
August 7th, 2005, 06:48 PM
No kidding, at last a woman character with a life, an actress with a presence and great dialogues. Let's get Carter stuck in some desertic marsh planet, where she will "carry on test" hectically every day and night on every stone, and kill every caterpillar frantically with newly invented deadly alien weapons of hers.

:eek:

Well...there'd be a lot of Carter fans stuck on that deserted marsh planet with her...I for one like technobabble and that laptop she's always carrying around. :D

Farscape fan? :)

GateTraveler
August 7th, 2005, 07:21 PM
I think the problem with her character is lack of depth. TPTB have missed many opportunities to add depth. Just when it seems they might, they ruin it with a joke. Since she's only going to be around for a couple of more episodes I guess that's OK but it would have been nice to get to know more about why she is the way she is. All that screen time (more lines already than Tealc had the first 4 seasons) and we know very little about what makes her tick.

NightGloom
August 7th, 2005, 07:34 PM
Vala? Oh yeah! You mean Aeryn on the dentist's happy gas with pig tails? Or Aeryn-lite if you prefer. Don't like her, but I don't want her dead- she's already escaped death twice this season. If they kill her off, they'll probably decide to bring her back anyway and that would already be worse. In the last episode,they had a chance to make her character seem more well-rounded and at least make you feel some sympathy for the character, but they turned everything into a joke (and a bad one at that). When I heard CB was going to be in a few episodes this season, I was actually kind of happy about it. I didn't really like her in Prometheus Unbound, but I figured they might develop her character some. But all her episodes right in a row is too much.

rhade
August 7th, 2005, 08:47 PM
I like Vala she is the the type of character that stands out for good or bad. I think she would make a good recurring character. A good contact for the SGC to have if they need something or some information that they could not get through normal channels. It would be good to use her info on the darker side of how things are done to help the SGC gain information and contacts with other races and cultures that the SGC may not know or come into contact with. I think she does have depth and while those times when it shows may be few and far between they add more complexity to her behaviour when you take it as a whole. The strong emotions on all sides are good and while a lot of people don't like she is different and brings something that we have not seen in SG-1 or Atlantis from a recurring character. She is self serving, speaks her mind, manipulative but also has a hidden side. I can understand the hate but I think that they should use her knowledge by using her as a contact for the underworld. I think that would challenge her and allow her to change and grow while still keeping what makes her Vala.

PsychoPenguin
August 7th, 2005, 09:22 PM
I've said it before; I'll say it again. It actually causes me pain to watch Claudia Black play this character. Where once she embodied a strong, competent female who never needed to manipulate men in the way women have been accused of doing for millennia, she is suddenly an amoral, immature woman-child who flounces her way through people's lives. If she turns into a decent character, it will only be because she's been "saved" by the influence of a "good man," a wicked Jezebel rehabilitated by the virtuous Daniel, a scifi take on the "hooker with a heart of gold" cliche.

That said, I've already taken the step necessary to make it go away for me: I've stopped watching "SG1." "Atlantis" and "BSG" are the only things left on my Friday night viewing schedule. So while I sympathize with people who start these threads, I also don't. Changing the channel is very easy. Trust me. All it takes is the push of a button. :)

Crichton
August 7th, 2005, 09:36 PM
It's surprising to me that someone who liked Claudia Black in Farscape would not see the golden opportunity that she has with Vala. She finally gets to act like Rygel but with sex appeal!!

Also, the last episode completly shows that Vala is going to be perfect for her intended purpose...to be a recurring character that opens up new storylines...not a main character, but instead she'll be like Carter's Dad, or Braytak, or the Tokkra, or any other character that makes appearances every once in awhile but is also occupied with more than Earth's priority list.

Also, goddamm!!!! she was hot in the red lingerie!!! :D

Ziu
August 7th, 2005, 09:45 PM
Vala can be a pain, but I believe she would make a great 5th memeber of SG-1.

Think about it: Daniel the Archeologist and Historian, Samantha the Brains, Vala the one that has been around the Galaxy a few times, Teal'c the Warrior and wannabe politician. All these folks being refereed by the new commander of SG-1. The writers could have a field day with the stories they could come up with.

the Fifth Race
August 7th, 2005, 09:58 PM
Vala----
Over the top....Yes
Annoying ....Yes
To much sexual innuendo....Yes
Putting her in mortal danger to much....Yes
To many cheesy lines....Yes

Great character....Yes
Great outfits....Yes
Great chemistry with Daniel....Yes
Great Actress....Yes

The show is different with her, I think by emphasizing her so much early tells me she won't be around to much longer. I miss Carter and O'Neill, Teal'c is non-exsistant this season so far and Daniel is simply marvelous. The other newbies (Mitchell & Landry) are adequate.

PsychoPenguin
August 7th, 2005, 10:01 PM
It's surprising to me that someone who liked Claudia Black in Farscape would not see the golden opportunity that she has with Vala. She finally gets to act like Rygel but with sex appeal!!

Also, goddamm!!!! she was hot in the red lingerie!!! :D

Yeah, you're not exactly invalidating my point there, "Crichton." Apparently, you and I admired Aeryn for completely different reasons.

And suddenly I'm wondering whether she was truly the eye-opening, trail-blazing scifi character I'd hoped she'd be...*sigh.*

Qasim
August 8th, 2005, 02:29 AM
Vala can be a pain, but I believe she would make a great 5th memeber of SG-1.They will never have a 5 man team because people will complain that they didnt do it with Jonas

Albion
August 8th, 2005, 02:42 AM
I've enjoyed watching Vala (which was a total surprise to me as from spoilers I'd begun to thoroughly dislike her :p ) and I love the relationship between her and Daniel. Which, I have to say, I don't see as ship but something a lot more complicated, although there's an obvious attraction there.

I do miss Sam though. And although I really enjoyed TTTB, it didn't seem a whole lot like Stargate to me and I don't think S9 will until Sam returns and Vala leaves. Although that's less to do with Vala, I think, than that for the moment SG1 has been...well, Daniel. So maybe I need Sam back and Teal'c more in evidence before it's becomes Stargate for me again. (Which isn't, as I say, to say that I haven't been enjoying the episodes so far).

My preference would be for her to leave alive and perhaps return at some future point. In S10 maybe if there is one. But perhaps not for the rest of S9.

Albion :)

Furling God
August 8th, 2005, 03:37 AM
Many people have not seen that the massive sexual banter is there just to compensate for the highly romantic nature of the cosmic ties.

It is the myth of Tristan & Isolde, which in its turn corresponds to Season 9 exploring Christian middle-ages.

Isolde with a 'tude, that what Vala is.

valaCB
August 8th, 2005, 04:50 AM
But then I am one of those strange people who love her!
What do you mean??? Most of the people like her and they are not strange at all! :)

Teal'c
August 8th, 2005, 05:29 AM
I don't like her, don't want her dead, just gone. I think too much focus has been put on her character.
Too much focus? You realise without Vala the Ancient communication device wouldn't have been discovered (and thus neither the Ori) and Season 9 would have been quite flacid :P

valaCB
August 8th, 2005, 06:16 AM
Too much focus? You realise without Vala the Ancient communication device wouldn't have been discovered (and thus neither the Ori) and Season 9 would have been quite flacid :P

heheheheh...too true ;)

Lida
August 8th, 2005, 06:27 AM
I'm also one of those that hope that CB's character of Vala becomes a recurring guest, like Jacob/Selmak, used to be. One of the things that has kept SG-1 "fresh" all these years, is it's ability to laugh at itself, in addition to being serious and taking the moral high ground in many episodes. Vala has been a breath of fresh air and a much needed diversion, with the exit of our beloved RDA and the abscence of the wonderful AT.

CB is a fantastic actress and it is obvious, she has been enjoying the role of Vala, one so unlike Aeryn Sun, and I've been enjoying watching her. Has a little of the dialogue been over the top....yes, but over-all, I like the character and I'd like to continue to see her in the future. As for "ships", only the kind that fly, please. :D ;)

Droops
August 8th, 2005, 07:07 AM
I don't know why they've put her on the show....She is stupid to death... she makes stargate looks stupid and non-serious.... Season 9 would have been good if she was not on the show.....

KILL VALA please!!!!
I praise the lord that she will never come back.....

I disagree. She's a very smart character. No one gets away with what she's done and be dumb. Get below the simple surface and there's a lot there.

I love the character and hope that they bring her back more. She could become a very complex and interesting character, but we have to set her up first.

VALAasg
August 8th, 2005, 07:57 AM
Long live Vala! An interesting character portrayed by a fantastic actress. If we're fortunate enough to have Claudia back to play her, I hope the writers will be able to add some more layers to Vala.

ToasterOnFire
August 8th, 2005, 08:01 AM
Well, add me to the list of people who can't wait to see Vala gone. It's too bad; I was starting to warm up to her in the last couple of eps but TTTB was way too much for me.

What frustrates me the most is I know that she's smart, I know that she's confident, yet it's all ruined when she acts like a child. She's immature, uncaring, impatient, and runs around with a constant cutsie-wootsie "did I do that?" attitude. She has little patience when Daniel was upset that he didn't go to Atlantis, but has no problem trying to seduce him when he's not interested. Worse, she pulls sob stories out of a hat when the seduction fails. This is a woman who plays games to get what she wants. That's unfortunately common practice in high schools, but to see it in a woman of her age is awkward at best.

Running her mouth at the committee hearing, while I'm sure was meant to be funny in a "look at how wild Vala is!" sort of way, was the final straw for me. For such a potentially smart woman she does have a nasty habit of talking before thinking. And if Vala thought out that little speech first, well so much the worse for her.

Kalliope
August 8th, 2005, 08:16 AM
Long live Vala! An interesting character portrayed by a fantastic actress. If we're fortunate enough to have Claudia back to play her, I hope the writers will be able to add some more layers to Vala.

Let's hope for it, I'm going to miss Vala very, very much after "Beachhead", without her SG-1 will be probably boring as hell...
As for having Claudia back to play Vala... in an interview for Chicago Tribune (July 9th) Claudia said: "It really depends on if I'm available, and they can get what they want [storywise]. It's a nice position to be in, to be in love with a character you've played, who may live on again, who you want to go back to."

Claudia IS in love with Vala's character. And I'm sure it hurts her very much to read comments written with real hatred. Unfortunately there're many posts of this kind :(

UhSir
August 8th, 2005, 08:31 AM
I haven't like Vala since her first appearance, but I don't want her to be gone forever. I just don't want her to be a main character. I haven't enjoyed these first shows of the season. I have never been so bored by SG-1!

I think she adds back the spark that is gone now that Jack is gone. :rolleyes:

If she shows up once in a while I think it would be fun. The reaction from Landry after her comment to the senator :eek: was the best scene this season! I thoroughly enjoyed The Ties That Bind.

Bringing Vala back once in a while, like they did with Maybourne, would be fine.

ValaMalduran
August 8th, 2005, 08:53 AM
I REALLY LIKE Vala. Full stop.
I knew SG1 long before I knew Claudia Black and lately I simply found it quite boring. This has changed completely. For the first time in ages I was looking forward to the new season.

A.

WhatFateAlmondRoca
August 8th, 2005, 09:02 AM
<snip>Carter does not try to make herself seem perfect (even though she is)

In the words of Jay Felger "that's just another dimension of her perfection"

I personally would not like to see Carter go and Vala stay

ForeverSg1
August 8th, 2005, 09:38 AM
I disagree. She's a very smart character. No one gets away with what she's done and be dumb. Get below the simple surface and there's a lot there.

I love the character and hope that they bring her back more. She could become a very complex and interesting character, but we have to set her up first.

I totally agree with you. Vala is not dumb. The woman has years, if not decades, of experience as a Gou'ald host. In PU, she managed to hijack the Prometheus filled with USAF crewmen and a team of marines all alone as well as managing to break into the Prometheus' computer system. These are not the feats of an ignorant person.

I think what bothers me the most is that despite knowing all this about the character, that the writers continue to use her simply for sexually charged one-liners and to look pretty in front of the camera.


Like in The Ties That Bind, when Daniel and Vala are up on the cargo ship. Why didn't they let Vala take control and open the doors instead of having Daniel do it? Vala is a thief, an ex-gou'ald host and obviously knows her way around a cargo ship. So why would the writers have her just sit back and do nothing while Daniel tries to unlock the doors. I mean does Daniel even know how to do this sort of thing? Vala has a lot of potential, but in four episodes the writers still haven't managed to even strip off her first layer.


Kat

the dancer of spaz
August 8th, 2005, 10:08 AM
I totally agree with you. Vala is not dumb. The woman has years, if not decades, of experience as a Gou'ald host. In PU, she managed to hijack the Prometheus filled with USAF crewmen and a team of marines all alone as well as managing to break into the Prometheus' computer system. These are not the feats of an ignorant person.

I think what bothers me the most is that despite knowing all this about the character, that the writers continue to use her simply for sexually charged one-liners and to look pretty in front of the camera.


Like in The Ties That Bind, when Daniel and Vala are up on the cargo ship. Why didn't they let Vala take control and open the doors instead of having Daniel do it? Vala is a thief, an ex-gou'ald host and obviously knows her way around a cargo ship. So why would the writers have her just sit back and do nothing while Daniel tries to unlock the doors. I mean does Daniel even know how to do this sort of thing? Vala has a lot of potential, but in four episodes the writers still haven't managed to even strip off her first layer.


Kat

Yep. Vala is WAAAAY smarter than they've allowed her to behave, and it's a shame. We only have two more eps with her, and I don't think that's enough for them to make us see how intelligent, deep and thoughtful she really can be. :( You're right Kat. I have no idea why they didn't have her take care of that. They've portrayed her as more of a distraction and a hindrance to Daniel (forcefully playing up the sexual tension between them), when she's perfectly capable of taking care of a situation.

While I don't think I'd like it if Vala became a main character, I like the idea of seeing her again later on. She annoys the CRAP outta me sometimes, but her character adds a spunkiness to the show that hasn't been there before - partially because it wasn't ever really needed.

Rather than kill her off, it'd be nice to think that she walks away from the SGC with a respect for and from Teal'c and Mitchell, and a handle on her feelings for Daniel... whatever the heck those are. :rolleyes:

I'd like to see her again some time after this season. :)

Qasim
August 8th, 2005, 10:55 AM
In the words of Jay Felger "that's just another dimension of her perfection" Point taken :)

sgatelvr
August 8th, 2005, 11:35 AM
Acce,

I find your tone in the initial post to be rude, ignorant and harsh. Neither Vala nor SG1 are "stupid," and to call for a character to be killed is just wrong.

Vala is a different and unique character. She brings a new type of humor to the show. I think, ideally, this arc of shows should have been shown later on in the season, after all the fans got their "fix" of SG1. To bring it at the beginning of the season is very difficult, but TPTB didn't have much choice, with AT out for the first 5 episodes. Frankly, I think they have done a great job at entertaining us until AT gets back.

Personally, I would like to see more of Col. Mitchell & Teal'c. I especially miss Teal'c's input, and I would dearly like to get to know Mitchell. I had looked forward to the start of s9 because of Mitchell.

Anyway, I think everything will calm down once Beachhead airs & Sam is back. Until then, hang in there! There is only one more episode without Sam left. :)

Ancient 1
August 8th, 2005, 11:38 AM
The Vala Factor is just an amusing, even if somtimes annoying little arc, taking up some time until AT comes back. After that, and when a new SG-1 Team is established, I'm sure the show will go back to resembling its former self. (one can hope) :o

Joxentine
August 8th, 2005, 11:42 AM
I really like Vala. I do agree that she is a bit overbearing in the first 4 episodes due to so much screentime but damn IMO Vala and Daniel are carrying the show.

If not for Vala then people would be complaining that Mitchell was getting too much screentime or that Teal'c had too many lines, or that focusing on Teal'c and the new Free Jaffa Nation doesnt open up enough story lines... it would be endless.

I dont think they wanna give too much backstory on Mitchel because Carter isnt there yet. They are probably wanting to open him up when the permanent 4 team members are on screen a lot. So they are using Vala to bridge those episodes. I think to this point it has been a great job. Like mentioned before Vala pushing Daniel's bu ttons like no other. I find it quite fun to see him acting out of character. I also think that so far it is a pretty solid way to bring Mitchell into our consicousness as an on-screen presence being in the background somewhat.

That being said I think they blew a huge oppurtunity with the character of Vala with the lingerie scene with Daniel when she was going for sympathy points. If they had her just walk out it would swing the door wide open for future development for her. Although, she is the type to lie about the truth so what she said could pretty easily be what actually happened to her.

Also would like to note that she seems like the other side of the coin of Carter. Carter plays by the rules. Vala doesnt. Carter hides her emotions and keeps em in check. Vala goes and blatantly over plays her emotions while still keeping them in check. They are both intelligent and "strong" women in their own right. They both suppress their inner desires. I like how someone said that they dont like Vala because she "needs" to be redeemed by a man at some point. As if Carter's gun-ho/uptight attitude isnt in "need" of redemption from a man. They both seem to be on opposite sides of the spectrum.

Correct me if I am wrong here but in Farscape wasnt her character uptight military also? The character was "redeemed" by a man wasnt it?

Edit: I dont think she should be a permanent member of the team but having a reoccuring role would be nice to light a spark under Daniel and make us laugh here and there.

Egraine
August 8th, 2005, 11:46 AM
All good points!


Correct me if I am wrong here but in Farscape wasnt her character uptight military also? The character was "redeemed" by a man wasnt it?

I don't know if you would want to say "redeemed" but certainly opened up her life and her heart. Crichton told her she could be MORE, as did her former love Velorek. The society she came from was highly disciplined and extremely repressed.

Joxentine
August 8th, 2005, 11:53 AM
Yeah I was using redeemed in a loose sense. I really dont see it as being any different if her character were to be "redeemed" in SG by Daniel showing her that she can be "more". If they were to develop her character here someone would need to convince her to open up her life and her heart.

the fifth man
August 8th, 2005, 11:57 AM
I can't wait to see if anything ever develops between the two of them. Opposites do attract.

BackStageJim
August 8th, 2005, 11:59 AM
LOL Nobody dies in SCI-FI.

For Vala haters: Just think of how much more you will be in love with Carter when she returns.

For Vala lovers: New characters often add spice to a show in its second comming.

For people with a life: It is just a TV show, and we should respect it as such. Actors are not the characters they play. Not Vala, Jackson, Teal'c, etc.

Egraine
August 8th, 2005, 12:04 PM
Yeah I was using redeemed in a loose sense. I really dont see it as being any different if her character were to be "redeemed" in SG by Daniel showing her that she can be "more". If they were to develop her character here someone would need to convince her to open up her life and her heart.

I agree whole heartedly. I had real hopes we'd see the core of Vala....when she's telling Daniel "no wonder I can't form a lasting relationship"......hoping she was revealing herself to him. Then they had to ruin it with "is it working?"
Yeah, it was funny, but it was also very disappointing.

the fifth man
August 8th, 2005, 12:06 PM
LOL Nobody dies in SCI-FI.

For Vala haters: Just think of how much more you will be in love with Carter when she returns.

For Vala lovers: New characters often add spice to a show in its second comming.

For people with a life: It is just a TV show, and we should respect it as such. Actors are not the characters they play. Not Vala, Jackson, Teal'c, etc.

Totally agree with you there.

Seshat
August 8th, 2005, 12:14 PM
I'm glad you like Daniel/Vala, but for many of us seeing them front and center for four episodes is just way way way too much! I am bored with it, and the people I watch with are falling asleep---this is very rare. I don't mind that they have a key storyline in the first five episodes, but these two characters have dominated the first four, and it looks like maybe episode five. It is fun to see Daniel react, but to have it literally dominate the show is just too much. I would not continue to watch the show (as much as I think CB is so talented), if it continued in this vein. But it isn't, so ...

But most importantly, I do want Vala to return, but only as a recurring character. She'll be much more effective that way than as a regular on SG1. She isn't a team player and she shouldn't be because that is not her character.
That was very well said. I agree with all of the above.

It IS possible to like a character and still feel that they are out of place in an episode, or a TV series. I don't have to hate Vala to feel that the character is overused and pointless. I would be happy to see Vala occasionally, as a thorn in Daniel's side, as the pivotal point in an ep, as someone who brings comic relief, trip over the enemy, etc. But IMO her character as written is far too cartoonish for me to care about her or accept her as an integral part of the show.

I realize that everyone was hoping for different things out of Season 9. I was greatly looking forward to the changes announced (new characters, new enemy threat, bigger story arcs) because I thought they might breathe some fresh air into an old format. Instead I feel like we have just been going in circles with the Daniel and Vala Comedy Hour until Stargate starts airing again.

Ziu
August 8th, 2005, 12:18 PM
They will never have a 5 man team because people will complain that they didnt do it with Jonas

That was not the same. Jonas was intended to be a new Daniel. Vala is an entirely different character than all the others of SG-1.

MediaSavant
August 8th, 2005, 12:18 PM
For Vala haters...Any hope that the Nielsen ratings will support your POV is dashed.

(You'll see what I mean when they are posted)

Egraine
August 8th, 2005, 12:24 PM
For Vala haters...Any hope that the Nielsen ratings will support your POV is dashed.

(You'll see what I mean when they are posted)

Since you see them before most people, that means they have to be GOOD.

GateTraveler
August 8th, 2005, 12:31 PM
For Vala haters...Any hope that the Nielsen ratings will support your POV is dashed.

(You'll see what I mean when they are posted)

I don't particularly like Vala all that much but am liking S9 (for the most part) and am excited by your post. I take it you have seen the ratings and they are good. Any hints?:)

ToasterOnFire
August 8th, 2005, 12:39 PM
For Vala haters...Any hope that the Nielsen ratings will support your POV is dashed.

(You'll see what I mean when they are posted)
Oh man, I'm just crushed. :rolleyes:

I don't need anyone else to validate my opinion that most of the time Vala is dragging SG1 down. Sorry to burst that bubble.

And shouldn't we be talking about Vala, not the fans who like or dislike her?

chocdoc
August 8th, 2005, 12:40 PM
For Vala haters...Any hope that the Nielsen ratings will support your POV is dashed.

(You'll see what I mean when they are posted)


I don't think their point of view would be dashed by Nielsen ratings. Many shows that some people think are not good still get very high ratings!! I guess what I am saying is that high Nielsen ratings do not necessarily indicate a "quality" show! I am often amazed at what the general public like, but what's important to Scifi is that enough people like it. That's all that matters.

Crichton
August 8th, 2005, 12:50 PM
for all the vala-haters out there...

what would you have done differantly with these first 5 episodes??

...suggestions...anybody??

MediaSavant
August 8th, 2005, 01:16 PM
I don't need anyone else to validate my opinion that most of the time Vala is dragging SG1 down.

That's fine. But the reality is that fans who say, "the producers should do this because *I* say so--which is the tone of the original post--aren't the people the producers listen to.


And shouldn't we be talking about Vala, not the fans who like or dislike her?

Okay, Vala's a great character. The Nielsen ratings during her run have been healthy. *If* they stay that way and if she's still usable as a character when this run is over, the producers/writers have great incentive to bring her back. They've already stated at Comic-con that they love writing the character.

I understand the need to vent, but all the venting in the world won't change the situation if the marketplace has spoken.

smurf
August 8th, 2005, 01:26 PM
for all the vala-haters out there...

what would you have done differantly with these first 5 episodes??

...suggestions...anybody??
Give Cameron Mitchell some character development?
Teal'c something to do?
Give Vala some depth and less jokes?
Not rush the Ori story into one mad Daniel fast-talking session?
:rolleyes:

I don't hate Vala, but putting her "story" front when you have other major characters to deal with seems a bit off.

JackDaniel41
August 8th, 2005, 01:36 PM
For Vala haters...Any hope that the Nielsen ratings will support your POV is dashed.

(You'll see what I mean when they are posted)

And your point is... People who still like this show are MS fans only *and* now Vala fans. I like MS too but I don't like what Vala's doing to his character OR should I say TPTB.

Darth Buddha
August 8th, 2005, 01:40 PM
I understand the need to vent, but all the venting in the world won't change the situation if the marketplace has spoken.
A little early to make that call, I'd say.

There's a new flavor to the show, and some new stars. So you've got the old faithful showing up, and the fans of the new stars. Will the fans of the new stars stick around when Vala isn't around? Will the old fans stick around if the show continues to have more of a "Farscape" feel than it used to?

Those are good questions. Consider "Enterprise". The Star Trek faithful showed up, for a season, and then left in droves. That's with a fan base that goes back what, almost forty years now?

Stargate definitely has a more Farscape feel to it now (without a lot of the things that made me like Farscape, btw). In addition to the more slapstick take on humor, did you note the Farscape-isms? I'm sure there is a list elsewhere so I won't start here.

Cameron Mitchell is very reminiscent of John Crichton (too much so, perhaps?), Vala is not very reminiscent of Aeryn, perhaps more of Chiana or Jenavian (non-Farscapers whon't know who that is).

Will that wash with long-time Stargate fans over the long term? I think that question is still open. Will just Ben Browder with the "regular" Stargate SG-1 squad satisfy the "Far-gaters" enough to keep them coming back? Also probably still open.

Declaring victory by claiming "the market has spoken" at this point is what I'd expect from Bonnie Hammer... and maybe advertising agencies chase numbers blindly enough that they'll buy it. I'm a little more patient in seeing how the trends play out.

Kalliope
August 8th, 2005, 01:42 PM
And your point is... People who still like this show are MS fans only *and* now Vala fans. I like MS too but I don't like what Vala's doing to his character OR should I say TPTB.

But MS loves it :D Here it's an excerpt from his interview for TV Zone Special #64: "Obviously, having Claudia back this year was a treat. I don't think I've ever smiled and laughed so much on this show. Claudia brings so many ideas to the table all the time. When it comes to our two characters, we see them as having a sort of Spencer Tracy/Katherine Hepburn dynamic, not so much of tension, but rather constant antagonism. Their bickering leads to a lot of comedy and always spices up dull exposition scenes. Vala brings out a side of Daniel that I hadn't really had the chance to play before. She pushes certain buttons on him that no one else is able to, and I just love that."

the dancer of spaz
August 8th, 2005, 01:51 PM
Yeah... We all know how much MS and the crew are enjoying CB and this season. They've made that abundantly clear.

But, again, that doesn't have much to do with the Nielsen masses or the fans who go online.

BackStageJim
August 8th, 2005, 02:00 PM
Yeah... We all know how much MS and the crew are enjoying CB and this season. They've made that abundantly clear.



LOL .... if the masses only knew ... <wink wink>

Darth Buddha
August 8th, 2005, 02:00 PM
But MS loves it :D Here it's an excerpt from his interview for TV Zone Special #64: "Obviously, having Claudia back this year was a treat. I don't think I've ever smiled and laughed so much on this show. Claudia brings so many ideas to the table all the time. When it comes to our two characters, we see them as having a sort of Spencer Tracy/Katherine Hepburn dynamic, not so much of tension, but rather constant antagonism. Their bickering leads to a lot of comedy and always spices up dull exposition scenes. Vala brings out a side of Daniel that I hadn't really had the chance to play before. She pushes certain buttons on him that no one else is able to, and I just love that."
Good grief, Kalliope, have you ever heard of things that people say whether or not they are true?

He's trying to sell the show after some major cast changes so he can keep his job. He'd say that even if he despised her personally. Not that I'm saying he does, but rather that giving credence to promotional fluff interviews is fairly naive.

Or is it naivete? If there were an interview out there that were less than complimentary, would you find it so credible? I wonder.

the dancer of spaz
August 8th, 2005, 02:07 PM
While I tend to agree that this season was DEFINITELY hyped up by the show's cast and crew, I'd still like to think that they really DO like their jobs. :)

I'm a hippie like that. ;)

Kalliope
August 8th, 2005, 02:22 PM
Good grief, Kalliope, have you ever heard of things that people say whether or not they are true?

He's trying to sell the show after some major cast changes so he can keep his job. He'd say that even if he despised her personally. Not that I'm saying he does, but rather that giving credence to promotional fluff interviews is fairly naive.

Or is it naivete? If there were an interview out there that were less than complimentary, would you find it so credible? I wonder.

Just one question: have you listened to or read a transcript of "Prometheus Unbound" commentary?

Kalliope
August 8th, 2005, 02:39 PM
Good grief, Kalliope, have you ever heard of things that people say whether or not they are true?

He's trying to sell the show after some major cast changes so he can keep his job. He'd say that even if he despised her personally. Not that I'm saying he does, but rather that giving credence to promotional fluff interviews is fairly naive.

Or is it naivete? If there were an interview out there that were less than complimentary, would you find it so credible? I wonder.

In this particular case, I don't see ANY reason not to believe Michael and Claudia complementing each other.

GateTraveler
August 8th, 2005, 02:46 PM
Actually MediaSavant has a point. If the ratings stay high while Vala is on and drop when she leaves, she will be back - probably for good - no matter what is written here. As MediaSavant says, this forum represents a very small portion of the general audience. While tptb probably use it for getting more immediate and specific feedback than ratings can provide, it isn't the most important factor. Ratings will drive what is done with Vala long term more than anything else - just like they do with all shows.

Darth Buddha
August 8th, 2005, 03:40 PM
While I tend to agree that this season was DEFINITELY hyped up by the show's cast and crew, I'd still like to think that they really DO like their jobs. :)

I'm a hippie like that. ;)
I can't disagree with that sentiment, but the bottom line is, we'd never know from any official release, any interview, or any DVD extra if they didn't, now, would we?


Just one question: have you listened to or read a transcript of "Prometheus Unbound" commentary?
Do you actually consider the commentary anything other than product?

Do you actually believe that you'd be any more likely to hear anything negative there, or anything even less than joyously happy and ubeat, any more than you'd expect to hear the dirt from Star Trek on a DVD extra?e

Would you expect to hear any of George Takei's axes regarding William Shatner? Or from Nichelle Nicole that she was boffing Gene Rodenberry?

Would you expect, perhaps, to hear about the tense relations between Duchovney and Anderson on an X-Files DVD extra? Or about Dean Cain and Terri Hatcher's differences?

Of course you woudln't. At least you wouldn't if you actually thought about it, rather than taking it at face value because it confirms what you'd prefer to believe.

I guess my question for you is, why do you think this is worthy of any more weight than fluff promotional pieces? Ah, I guess I answered my own question in the paragraph before, didn't I?


In this particular case, I don't see ANY reason not to believe Michael and Claudia complementing each other.
YOU wouldn't, of course. So long as it is hyping your favorite girl, you aren't going to question anything... or am I wrong about that?



Actually MediaSavant has a point. If the ratings stay high while Vala is on and drop when she leaves, she will be back - probably for good - no matter what is written here. As MediaSavant says, this forum represents a very small portion of the general audience. While tptb probably use it for getting more immediate and specific feedback than ratings can provide, it isn't the most important factor. Ratings will drive what is done with Vala long term more than anything else - just like they do with all shows.
There ya go. That IS a reasonable conclusion to draw from available data, and from what we know about network types. If the ratings crash, they'll probably bring back Vala. They may in fact be planning on the future Vala episodes to test that very theory. If they don't go back up when her additional episodes air? Then they'd likely not make it permanent. Truth be told, if they were to be in ratings trouble at that point, they might not have a devil of a lot of time to experiment.

JackDaniel41
August 8th, 2005, 03:43 PM
I'm glad MS likes her. I'm sure CB's great but some people don't like her character. I'm sure the minority won't change a damn thing so the minority will have to decide if the show's worth watching with her on it.

binkpmmc
August 8th, 2005, 03:47 PM
I guess what I am saying is that high Nielsen ratings do not necessarily indicate a "quality" show!

Exactly.

AGateFan
August 8th, 2005, 03:51 PM
Ratings are out on the front page now. SG-1 held steady, SGA and BSG both droped on tenth.

chocdoc
August 8th, 2005, 04:00 PM
For Vala haters...Any hope that the Nielsen ratings will support your POV is dashed.

(You'll see what I mean when they are posted)


Okay, now we know what the ratings are for The Ties that Bind---2.0 again. that's good. It is below the season 8 average of 2.1 for the second week in a row, but at least it is steady.

From what you wrote, I was expecting a significant increase from last week, but steady is good.

To stay on topic, I'm figuring TPTB, even before seeing the decent ratings, were planning to have Vala back every so often---that makes sense because she, like other good recurring characters, are important to the show.

Darth Buddha
August 8th, 2005, 04:00 PM
That's nice. As we are talking about a "post Vala" situation here, do this week's ratings really apply?

The fans who aren't "Fargaters" have to hang in and watch if they want to know what is going on when Amanda Tapping's "Col. Carter" returns. The fans who are "Fargaters" might not stick around... but neither of those issues has played out yet.

esoap524
August 8th, 2005, 04:20 PM
Yeah... We all know how much MS and the crew are enjoying CB and this season. They've made that abundantly clear.

But, again, that doesn't have much to do with the Nielsen masses or the fans who go online.


Well, I think the ratings were announced today. 2.0 for SG1 and 1.9 for SGA and BSG, with this being BSG's lowest in the show's history. Good thing "someone" finally woke up.

Anyway, as for Vala and Farscape, Darth Buddha, I find her more of a combination of Rygel and Chiana. Sexy, thieving, greedy, in it for herself and possibly (possibly) having a heart somewhere under all that greed.

Needless to say, the sexy part belongs to Chiana ;) ...puppet fetishes aside.

ETA: oops, never mind the ratings thing. Someone beat me to it.

And I guess only time will tell re: post Vala stuff. I think that the ratings will likely pop along about the same. Anyone who was only watching for Claudia will stop, everyone waiting for Sam to return will start.

An even swap.

DB, the "Fargaters" will stick around for Ben, who hasn't had a lot to do these past episodes. It's the smaller portion of the "FG" contingent, those watching soley for Claudia Black, who may stop watching but, really, I don't think that's going to make a whole lot of difference.

As a fan of Black's, I'd like to see it make a difference, but I doubt it will.

As for ratings and quality shows...I think we already had that debate back when Farscape was canceled.

sgatelvr
August 8th, 2005, 04:38 PM
And your point is... People who still like this show are MS fans only *and* now Vala fans. I like MS too but I don't like what Vala's doing to his character OR should I say TPTB.
MS fans only?! :eek: That's a pretty big assumption!! I personally love all the characters, and couldn't even give you a favorite if you asked! I am enjoying Vala's run as a good source of entertainment while waiting for Carter's return. I appreciate the humor she brings to the show. I will enjoy the episodes with the *new* team once they begin as much as I have enjoyed the first four. Sometimes, change is good.

MS fans only ... sheesh! Whatever. :rolleyes:

Darth Buddha
August 8th, 2005, 04:58 PM
People who still like this show are MS fans only *and* now Vala fans. I like MS too but I don't like what Vala's doing to his character OR should I say TPTB.
Yow, from Media Savant making drawing global conclusions from limited data to your making global conclusions with no data in evidence, this thread is going downhill fast!


And I guess only time will tell re: post Vala stuff. I think that the ratings will likely pop along about the same. Anyone who was only watching for Claudia will stop, everyone waiting for Sam to return will start.

An even swap.
So you are assuming "Claudia only fans' = "Amanda Tapping only fans"?


DB, the "Fargaters" will stick around for Ben, who hasn't had a lot to do these past episodes. It's the smaller portion of the "FG" contingent, those watching soley for Claudia Black, who may stop watching but, really, I don't think that's going to make a whole lot of difference.
Maybe. I'm wondering what will happen next. I know that the fanboy/fangurl element that dominates here probably isn't representative of the actual viewing audience.


As for ratings and quality shows...I think we already had that debate back when Farscape was canceled.
Again, depends on which side of that debate you are on. I was ticked that Farscape was cancelled, but the show had disappointed me pretty consistently in Season 4.

It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

the dancer of spaz
August 8th, 2005, 05:02 PM
Yep. It's PRETTY dangerous to generalize.

Ancient 1
August 8th, 2005, 05:43 PM
And shouldn't we be talking about Vala, not the fans who like or dislike her?
I thought Daniel pretty much nailed her character. What else needs to be said? I can't fault CB's performance either. What else does one do with such a shallow character, but play it "over-the-top?" The fact that she and Daniel are carrying the show, justifies my earlier comment. The writers have to center the shows around someone else with RDA gone, except for the occasional cameo, and AT out for a few weeks. What were they gonna do: center the shows around the Jaffa political struggles....BORING!! :eek:

JackDaniel41
August 8th, 2005, 06:14 PM
I don't think I jumped to any big conclusions. Daniel Jackson's a very popular character. Remember when MS wanted out in season five. Remember the major marketing campaign to bring him back. Remember season six. I'll go as far as saying he's the most popular character on the show.

SunKrux
August 8th, 2005, 06:17 PM
It's surprising to me that someone who liked Claudia Black in Farscape would not see the golden opportunity that she has with Vala. She finally gets to act like Rygel but with sex appeal!!

LOL Good description! Although..Vala's not quite as bad as Rygel...I certainly hope we won't EVER see her urinate fire. ;)


Also, the last episode completly shows that Vala is going to be perfect for her intended purpose...to be a recurring character that opens up new storylines...not a main character, but instead she'll be like Carter's Dad, or Braytak, or the Tokkra, or any other character that makes appearances every once in awhile but is also occupied with more than Earth's priority list.

Exactly! I'm with ya! As much as I'm loving Vala...to have her as a constant member would get a bit tiring for me. Recurring character is the perfect spot for her. :D


Also, goddamm!!!! she was hot in the red lingerie!!! :D

* hands Crichton a towel and a drool bucket

Down Crichton, down! ;)

SunKrux
August 8th, 2005, 06:23 PM
What do you mean??? Most of the people like her and they are not strange at all! :)
:rolleyes: Riiiight...whatever. ;)

*starts humming...People are strange...

Darth Buddha
August 8th, 2005, 06:25 PM
I don't think I jumped to any big conclusions. Daniel Jackson's a very popular character. Remember when MS wanted out in season five. Remember the major marketing campaign to bring him back. Remember season six. I'll go as far as saying he's the most popular character on the show.
That might be an interesting point to discuss, but it is a far cry from what you said initially.


People who still like this show are MS fans only *and* now Vala fans. I like MS too but I don't like what Vala's doing to his character OR should I say TPTB.
So I'd say you leapt to some mighty big conclusions. One I can disprove right off. I still watch the show, and I never much cared for Daniel, and I don't much care for Vala either (a waste of Ms. Black's talents as far as I am concerned).

SunKrux
August 8th, 2005, 06:26 PM
I'm also one of those that hope that CB's character of Vala becomes a recurring guest, like Jacob/Selmak, used to be. One of the things that has kept SG-1 "fresh" all these years, is it's ability to laugh at itself, in addition to being serious and taking the moral high ground in many episodes. Vala has been a breath of fresh air and a much needed diversion, with the exit of our beloved RDA and the abscence of the wonderful AT.

CB is a fantastic actress and it is obvious, she has been enjoying the role of Vala, one so unlike Aeryn Sun, and I've been enjoying watching her. Has a little of the dialogue been over the top....yes, but over-all, I like the character and I'd like to continue to see her in the future. As for "ships", only the kind that fly, please. :D ;)

Thank you! Vala, imho, isn't even "Aeryn-lite" as one fans has labeled her. They are so completely different! Aeryn, grew up a solider, with no emotions and no kind of affection given to her. I have a feeling Vala faired better in that department than Aeryn did.

Vala is a woman who knows what part of her to use to get what she wants. Aeryn didn't have a clue in that regards. LOL

CB has to be having a BLAST with this role!

keshou
August 8th, 2005, 06:30 PM
I LIKE Vala. Do I think she should be a regular on SG-1? No. She's outrageous, she's annoying, she's a pot-stirrer, - in other words she would make a great recurring character.

5 or 6 episodes in a ROW is too many - although I understand they contracted Claudia to cover while AT was out. But 6+ times a year to come in and stir things up? I think that would be great.

And this is coming from someone who was very leary of seeing Vala back in S9. PU just had WAY too many cringeworthy scenes imo.

I certainly don't think Vala should "END". Way too much potential if the writers manage to use her character in the right way. :D

valaCB
August 9th, 2005, 12:51 AM
:rolleyes: Riiiight...whatever. ;)

*starts humming...People are strange...
Ok...OK...im strange http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/cwm/3dlil/buck.gif

KatG
August 9th, 2005, 03:43 AM
for all the vala-haters out there...

what would you have done differantly with these first 5 episodes??

...suggestions...anybody??

I'm not a Vala hater, although I did start out not liking her so much. I do have to admit that she's grown on me, but...

I think there's way too much focus on Vala/Daniel. Yes, they had to compensate for AT's absence, but I would have liked to have seen more of Daniel/Teal'c and Daniel/Mitchell and Teal'c/Mitchell to mix it up a bit.

They could even have done a couple of more Sam cameos with Mitchell. Apparently they're good friends. I don't think it would have been that far off, for Mitchell to maybe touch base with her from time to time, maybe to bounce ideas/feelings off of her as he settles into his new role, maybe even to keep trying to convince her to come back. And it would have been very easy to do. They could have gone ahead and shot BB's scenes looking at and talking to the monitor and then shot AT's when she got back and filled it in. That's what they did with Avalon I, so they could have just added a few more.

Honestly, I think a lot of people's problems with Vala, stem from too much Vala all at once. If they'd mixed things up a bit more, made it part of the story but not all of the story, I doubt that there would be nearly this much controversy.

KatG
August 9th, 2005, 03:58 AM
But MS loves it :D Here it's an excerpt from his interview for TV Zone Special #64: "Obviously, having Claudia back this year was a treat. I don't think I've ever smiled and laughed so much on this show. Claudia brings so many ideas to the table all the time. When it comes to our two characters, we see them as having a sort of Spencer Tracy/Katherine Hepburn dynamic, not so much of tension, but rather constant antagonism. Their bickering leads to a lot of comedy and always spices up dull exposition scenes. Vala brings out a side of Daniel that I hadn't really had the chance to play before. She pushes certain buttons on him that no one else is able to, and I just love that."

There you go again. Believing everything you read. All the interviews leading up to S9 were publicity. They were meant to build up the show, get people excited and get them watching.

What if MS had said "I can't believe that brought Claudia Black back to do 5 episodes as Vala. This is the stupidest storyline I've ever had to work with. Now that Rick is gone, and Amanda is out for 5 weeks, the show is seriously going down the tubes"

Would people have been as likely to tune in? I doubt it.

Would you have been so quick to believe it since it doesn't fit with your viewpoint? I doubt it.

And I'm not saying that MS feels that way. He may honestly be ecstatic about "Vala". It still doesn't change the fact that some of the fans aren't. And they're not going to be, regardless of what MS says.

KatG
August 9th, 2005, 04:03 AM
So I'd say you leapt to some mighty big conclusions. One I can disprove right off. I still watch the show, and I never much cared for Daniel, and I don't much care for Vala either (a waste of Ms. Black's talents as far as I am concerned).

Wow. DB and I actually agree on something. The world may very well be getting ready to end. :D

I mainly watched for Sam and for Jack and not just the shippiness factor either. I just liked the two characters and what they brought to the show. But I'm still watching and not hating it although it has nothing to do with Vala. I'm rather hooked on the Ori storyline at the moment and am waiting to see where it goes. And of course I'm looking forward to Sam's return.

KatG
August 9th, 2005, 04:07 AM
I don't know why they've put her on the show....She is stupid to death... she makes stargate looks stupid and non-serious.... Season 9 would have been good if she was not on the show.....

KILL VALA please!!!!
I praise the lord that she will never come back.....

I don't think Vala's stupid at all. I think she knows exactly what she's doing. She's cunning and manipulative and it's how she operates.

Do I like it? Not necessarily, but it in no way means she stupid.

Publius
August 9th, 2005, 06:57 AM
While I admit and agree that Vala is often to sexualized (that 'dress' she wore was over the top), the character has really SAVED season 9 for me. So far this whole Ori nonsense has been REALLY awful. I mean are they SO completely out of ideas that they HAD to re-use the aliens posing as gods thing that they just resolved? I fear SG-1 has jumped the shark with the Ori. :(

The thing that kills me is that it's not like Stargate lacks potential storylines withuot the Ori. The new Jaffa nation alone could occupy us for a season. A civil war could have erupt between them. The potential as a metaphor for the difficulties in Iraq alone are compelling.

We still haven't been introduced to the Furlings. Goa'uld hungry for vengeance could well arrange attacks on Earth (using subtler methods) now that they no longer have a nation for the Asgard to punish.

How are the Tok'ra handling their sudden lack of a mission statement? What about a storyline where the gate program once and for all becomes public knowledge? How about some more Nox stuff? And dare I even mention getting back to some good old-fashioned one-offs? Most of SG-1's best sci-fi has been in one-offs with no continuity impact.

But Vala has made the early season tolerable. Yes the comedy is a little schticky, and no I wouldn't want her and Daniel to dominate the landscape forever, but she is the only thing holding my interest during an otherwise dreadfully boring and weak first few episodes. Atlantis isn't exactly great either. The highlight of my Friday night TV now is Firefly re-runs.

ShimmeringStar
August 9th, 2005, 07:32 AM
There's a new flavor to the show, and some new stars. So you've got the old faithful showing up, and the fans of the new stars. Will the fans of the new stars stick around when Vala isn't around? Will the old fans stick around if the show continues to have more of a "Farscape" feel than it used to?
<some snippage>
Will that wash with long-time Stargate fans over the long term? I think that question is still open. Will just Ben Browder with the "regular" Stargate SG-1 squad satisfy the "Far-gaters" enough to keep them coming back? Also probably still open.

Declaring victory by claiming "the market has spoken" at this point is what I'd expect from Bonnie Hammer... and maybe advertising agencies chase numbers blindly enough that they'll buy it. I'm a little more patient in seeing how the trends play out.I agree the question is still very much open. It may be half-answered by the time the mid-season break here in the U.S. comes around, but it likely won’t be until the end of season before the trend can be official for certain, no matter what Ms. Hammer or other SciFi PTB may declare....

Good question in that first paragraph. Both in general to the new spin/direction the show has taken and in relation to this thread’s topic – Vala. Speaking for myself (a non-Neilsen household) I know my plan is to watch the show through the end of the season, although it’s by no means with the same anticipation that I had the past 2 years that I’ve been watching it. I know how certain aspects of the show are making me feel right now, but (*sighs*) I’ll keep tuning in, hoping to see some of that “classic old Stargate” that Wright and Cooper said in that interview on GW that they’d be delivering this season.

But I agree – it will be interesting to see how the ratings go over the long term, especially after we pass by these Danny and Vala-centric episodes.

ShimmeringStar
August 9th, 2005, 07:38 AM
I LIKE Vala. Do I think she should be a regular on SG-1? No. She's outrageous, she's annoying, she's a pot-stirrer, - in other words she would make a great recurring character.

5 or 6 episodes in a ROW is too many - although I understand they contracted Claudia to cover while AT was out. But 6+ times a year to come in and stir things up? I think that would be great.Yep keshou, she's perhaps best in small doses to spice things up and contribute to the storyline, but not be *the* story for 5 eps straight.

I don’t dislike Vala. In fact after the second episode when she was being burned that first time – I went “oooooo” very much appreciating this powerful scene and the fact that the writers had taken her, and Daniel, to a place where there was so much great potential to leap from, both in developing her character and in any potential ship between V & D. And the following week saw the serious potential ignored (IMOHO). And this past week’s ep it was just trounced down. I’m not of big faith that this Friday’s ep will change that. (But hope springs eternal…… :rolleyes: :p )

And I know for me it doesn’t matter that CB was AS in the series she previously acted in (or even that BB was MC). I’m deciding if I like her by how Vala is written by the SG PTB and how she is played by CB. I’m disappointed somewhat by how she’s been written, but have to give CB kudos for pulling off the so-so writing the best she can.

So, no… I’m definitely *not* in the wishing Vala would die camp as the threadstarter claimed to be, but I am a bit of the mind that like jalapeno peppers, the character may be better as something best sprinkled on the show in smaller doses, not swallowed in one big gulp as the main meal. :o :)

Furling God
August 9th, 2005, 08:22 AM
Can we just burn her again and revive her again so both sides will be happy? :p

WhatFateAlmondRoca
August 9th, 2005, 08:30 AM
Can we just burn her again and revive her again so both sides will be happy? :p

What, AGAIN? Did they hire the Marquis de Sade to ghost write for RCC???? :p Or is that Graham Chapman and Terry Gilliam ("burn her, burn her" from Holy Grail)

Third time's a charm....


Thanks for the levity in this discussion - it was time!

KatG
August 9th, 2005, 08:31 AM
I don't think I jumped to any big conclusions. Daniel Jackson's a very popular character. Remember when MS wanted out in season five. Remember the major marketing campaign to bring him back. Remember season six. I'll go as far as saying he's the most popular character on the show.

I don't think that proves that he's the most popular. It just proves that he has the most fanatical fans. Given the backlash that happened as a result of the marketing campaign I doubt you'll see the same thing happen for any of the other characters. People are just too leery of it.

ValaMalduran
August 9th, 2005, 08:33 AM
Darth Buddha wrote:
Good grief, Kalliope, have you ever heard of things that people say whether or not they are true?

He's trying to sell the show after some major cast changes so he can keep his job. He'd say that even if he despised her personally. Not that I'm saying he does, but rather that giving credence to promotional fluff interviews is fairly naive.

Or is it naivete? If there were an interview out there that were less than complimentary, would you find it so credible? I wonder.


Of course you woudln't. At least you wouldn't if you actually thought about it, rather than taking it at face value because it confirms what you'd prefer to believe.


YOU wouldn't, of course. So long as it is hyping your favorite girl, you aren't going to question anything... or am I wrong about that?

I have to say I find your comments quite offending.
Just because we appreciate someone's acting talent doesn't mean we're taking everything that's written -good or bad- about Claudia Black at face value. We're very well aware of the mechanics of press and promotion.

You ask if we expect actors to talk negative about their peers in commentaries and interviews citing Star Trek as an example. Regardless of what they said in I&C's we still know that they didn't get along. If there's negativity and animosity it will surface somehow.
To implement that everyone -SG1 actors, producers and writers - would talk positive about Claudia Black only to sell the new season is a very cynical approach IMHO.

Stargate DVD commentaries themselves always seem pretty honest to me. They DO talk about things that didn't come out the way they wanted and about collaborations that weren't as enjoyable.

A.

Kalliope
August 9th, 2005, 08:36 AM
Darth Buddha wrote:





I have to say I find your comments quite offending.
Just because we appreciate someone's acting talent doesn't mean we're taking everything that's written -good or bad- about Claudia Black at face value. We're very well aware of the mechanics of press and promotion.

You ask if we expect actors to talk negative about their peers in commentaries and interviews citing Star Trek as an example. Regardless of what they said in I&C's we still know that they didn't get along. If there's negativity and animosity it will surface somehow.
To implement that everyone -SG1 actors, producers and writers - would talk positive about Claudia Black only to sell the new season is a very cynical approach IMHO.

Stargate DVD commentaries themselves always seem pretty honest to me. They DO talk about things that didn't come out the way they wanted and about collaborations that weren't as enjoyable.

A.

Thanks for support, ValaMalduran :) DarthBuddha's amunition actually killed me.

KatG
August 9th, 2005, 08:39 AM
I have to say I find your comments quite offending.
Just because we appreciate someone's acting talent doesn't mean we're taking everything that's written -good or bad- about Claudia Black at face value. We're very well aware of the mechanics of press and promotion.

You ask if we expect actors to talk negative about their peers in commentaries and interviews citing Star Trek as an example. Regardless of what they said in I&C's we still know that they didn't get along. If there's negativity and animosity it will surface somehow.
To implement that everyone -SG1 actors, producers and writers - would talk positive about Claudia Black only to sell the new season is a very cynical approach IMHO.

Stargate DVD commentaries themselves always seem pretty honest to me. They DO talk about things that didn't come out the way they wanted and about collaborations that weren't as enjoyable.

A.

In all fairness to Darth, I don't think he was talking about all Claudia Black fans, just the one in particular he was posting to, and given the poster's history it's not off base.

I also don't think that he was implying that everyone was talking positive to sell the new season, only that it was possible and that the poster should take what she reads with a grain of salt.

Darth Buddha
August 9th, 2005, 08:48 AM
I have to say I find your comments quite offending.
I think you mean "quite offensive". If you can demonstrate the to be substantially fallacious, I will consider your take on my comments seriously.


Just because we appreciate someone's acting talent doesn't mean we're taking everything that's written -good or bad- about Claudia Black at face value. We're very well aware of the mechanics of press and promotion.
And yet that is exactly what the posters in question were doing. I'm not quite to the point of doing a search on you and Kalliope to come up with further examples, but if push comes to shove, I'm sure I could come up with an interesting assortment. Just the ones I recall off the top of my head are perfect examples of taking at face value anything that confirms your prejudices, and scoffing at anything that contradicts your cherished beliefs.

Do you REALLy want to play that game? If you do, I'll start a thread.


You ask if we expect actors to talk negative about their peers in commentaries and interviews citing Star Trek as an example. Regardless of what they said in I&C's we still know that they didn't get along. If there's negativity and animosity it will surface somehow.
How many years after the fact did those animosities surface?

Remember, we are talking TOS in the first example, and the animosities between Cain and Hatcher and Duchovny and Anderson weren't in the gossip rags until the show had run several years.

So for now, all we have is the promotional and product bits.. which are essentially of no value whatsoever.


To implement that everyone -SG1 actors, producers and writers - would talk positive about Claudia Black only to sell the new season is a very cynical approach IMHO.

Stargate DVD commentaries themselves always seem pretty honest to me. They DO talk about things that didn't come out the way they wanted and about collaborations that weren't as enjoyable.
I don't really care if you think they are honest.

I've already made a pretty convincing (given the obscene amount of green I've gotten (unexpectedly) in this thread) argument that product and promotion are just that. You've yet to provide me with any rationale to believe that if there were any negatives they would appear in either, or even an example of such negatives appearing in promotional or product interviews.

Is it cynical? Of course it is. If you view promotional or product materials with anything other than cynicism, given they exist to PROMOTE THE SHOW, that any negatives would be counter to the interest of those doing the talking, and that any negatives would be POTENTIALLY ACTIONABLE, I think you are being more than just a little foolish.

I await a rebuttal more substantial than "IMO" and what you find offensive.

For observers, you'll note she is "taking at face value" product materials, arguing that such materials are "honest" based on her opinion, and nothing more.

ValaMalduran
August 9th, 2005, 09:15 AM
*sigh* Whatever.


A.

Darth Buddha
August 9th, 2005, 09:20 AM
I guess a substantial rebuttal will not be forthcoming. :D

Lida
August 9th, 2005, 09:33 AM
;)
I guess a substantial rebuttal will not be forthcoming. :D

Welcome back DB, nice to see you are still your sweet, lovable, honest self. :D We wouldn't want you any other way.

As for the question of Vala....which is the topic, while I have not truly enjoyed the first, is it 4 now, episodes of SG-1......it is not because of Vala. She, at least, has added a somethng new. The biggest turn off has been the lack of real story telling.....this isn't the "old" Stargate.....come on, the Ori, wow, really scary....NOT!

And now this new Allience of smugglers. If these are the new villans, I have severe reservations as to the longevity of the series, and NOT because of Vala.

Will I continue to watch? Yep...hope springs eternal, and AT isn't back yet! :)

GhostPoet
August 9th, 2005, 10:33 AM
I don't know why they've put her on the show....She is stupid to death... she makes stargate looks stupid and non-serious.... Season 9 would have been good if she was not on the show.....

KILL VALA please!!!!
I praise the lord that she will never come back.....


I think some people need to grow a sense of humor.

GhostPoet
August 9th, 2005, 10:36 AM
I think you mean "quite offensive". If you can demonstrate the to be substantially fallacious, I will consider your take on my comments seriously.


And yet that is exactly what the posters in question were doing. I'm not quite to the point of doing a search on you and Kalliope to come up with further examples, but if push comes to shove, I'm sure I could come up with an interesting assortment. Just the ones I recall off the top of my head are perfect examples of taking at face value anything that confirms your prejudices, and scoffing at anything that contradicts your cherished beliefs.

Do you REALLy want to play that game? If you do, I'll start a thread.


How many years after the fact did those animosities surface?

Remember, we are talking TOS in the first example, and the animosities between Cain and Hatcher and Duchovny and Anderson weren't in the gossip rags until the show had run several years.

So for now, all we have is the promotional and product bits.. which are essentially of no value whatsoever.


I don't really care if you think they are honest.

I've already made a pretty convincing (given the obscene amount of green I've gotten (unexpectedly) in this thread) argument that product and promotion are just that. You've yet to provide me with any rationale to believe that if there were any negatives they would appear in either, or even an example of such negatives appearing in promotional or product interviews.

Is it cynical? Of course it is. If you view promotional or product materials with anything other than cynicism, given they exist to PROMOTE THE SHOW, that any negatives would be counter to the interest of those doing the talking, and that any negatives would be POTENTIALLY ACTIONABLE, I think you are being more than just a little foolish.

I await a rebuttal more substantial than "IMO" and what you find offensive.

For observers, you'll note she is "taking at face value" product materials, arguing that such materials are "honest" based on her opinion, and nothing more.


I think the real question is...why should anyone care about this? :) It is extremely geeky to take something so serious to begin with. You are talking like you are debating some new scientific theory..it's a SHOW. heh

Darth Buddha
August 9th, 2005, 11:23 AM
Hey, my brain works logically almost all of the time... show, no show, news, no news, science, no science.

Why object? We have fandom for this or that, and fandom against this or that. Why not have an anti-fandom type once in a while (that'd be me)?

What Kalliope and other Claudia Black fangurls don't get is that I actually like Ms. Black's acting. I think she's pretty good. I just find their fangurl extremity revolting. I also think the weak, lame, fallacious, and otherwise lacking arguments do more to inflame the anti-Vala-CB-fargater-whatever-the-devil-you-call-it elments than further their cause. Some nice, sensible, straightforward arguments would serve so much better. But somehow, that's never enough for fandom.

I'm a scifi fan, and vapid fandoming embarasses me for all fans of the genre. Trek United embarassed me for all Trek fans when it pulled the infamous "Al Vinci" nonsense and began feuding with scifi press. Farscape fandom embarassed me when they decided to lambaste other press reports. Now Claudia Black fandom is embarassing me because they can't keep their heads screwed on straight.

Really, enough of the fandoming, just stick to the Straight Dope and you'll do JUST fine.

I think fans of SG-1 should be THANKFUL there is a notable science fiction actress like Claudia Black available to step in while Amanda Tapping is out on maternity leave. Can you imagine what would happen to the ratings if they DIDN'T have somebody to step in to round out the team? The show could suffer, and it might even imperil the oh-so-desired-already-by-rabid-fandom Season 10.

Do I think the character takes full advantage of Claudia Black's talents? Nope. Do I like the character? Not particularly. She's a comic book cutout. Not much any actress could do with that. But at least you've got somebody with good comic timing who is easy on the eyes to do it.

All in all? Vala isn't so great. Claudia Black is just fine. And of course Vala is going to end. She's not a show regular, and the few guest spots she gets down the road isn't going to kill the anti-CB-fandom element.

Lida
August 9th, 2005, 11:27 AM
I think some people need to grow a sense of humor.

If only if it were that easy......where do we get the seeds for "sense of humor"? You find the seeds and I'll provide the water and fertilizer. There's plenty of fertilizer available, why you could probably find enough on the Forum. ;)

Just kidding........

the dancer of spaz
August 9th, 2005, 12:24 PM
"A sense of humor" is rather subjective and relative, don't ya think? ;)

Hi Lida!!! :D

Furling God
August 9th, 2005, 12:34 PM
Do I think the character takes full advantage of Claudia Black's talents? Nope. Do I like the character? Not particularly. She's a comic book cutout. Not much any actress could do with that. But at least you've got somebody with good comic timing who is easy on the eyes to do it.


I suspect Claudia Black is into the major plan of compensating by an excessively female character her excessively virile character in Farscape.

So she doesn't get stuck in her later career in sort of Sigourney Weaver syndrome: the tough woman.

Masterful.... hat down.... :)

WhatFateAlmondRoca
August 9th, 2005, 02:17 PM
Hi, Lida:

I tried to leave you more green but I've gotta spread it around a bit. I agree Lucian Alliance ooh, bad, hurt me hurt me already. Gimme a Jaffa chase any day....

A sense of humor? I'd like to grow a sense of humor? Can I get Chia Sense of Humor down at Shop-Rite??? :)

LOL just kidding.

TheCorpulent1
August 9th, 2005, 02:26 PM
I agree Lucian Alliance ooh, bad, hurt me hurt me already. Gimme a Jaffa chase any day....
I was getting pretty bored of the Jaffa myself. The first couple of seasons they were a decent threat, but from about season 3 onwards, it seemed like 2 bullets from a handgun could kill them, despite all their armor and vaunted healing abilities. They were neutered a long time ago.

I like the Lucian Alliance for the fact that they broaden the picture of galactic politics in Stargate. I know a lot of fans don't like the political stuff because it takes away from the action and adventure and characterization of most SG-1 episodes, but I love it.

WhatFateAlmondRoca
August 9th, 2005, 02:36 PM
I was getting pretty bored of the Jaffa myself. The first couple of seasons they were a decent threat, but from about season 3 onwards, it seemed like 2 bullets from a handgun could kill them, despite all their armor and vaunted healing abilities. They were neutered a long time ago.

I like the Lucian Alliance for the fact that they broaden the picture of galactic politics in Stargate. I know a lot of fans don't like the political stuff because it takes away from the action and adventure and characterization of most SG-1 episodes, but I love it.

Although I meant my whole post to be kinda tongue in cheek, you have good points. My cat could prolly offa few Jaffa. Plus the Jaffa outfits are SO 90's. :p Although it was kinda fun to see Wayne Brady as First Prime. But yeah, he got whumped pretty easy too.

TheCorpulent1
August 9th, 2005, 02:48 PM
I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw Wayne Brady as a Jaffa. :) Sorry if I misinterpreted the intent of your post, but it brings up something that's bothered me. I've seen a lot of complaints that the new villains aren't scary enough, which makes me wonder, did anyone really find the Goa'uld or Jaffa very scary?

Sum1
August 9th, 2005, 03:30 PM
I personally dislike Vala as a character from the 4 episodes I've seen her in (PU, Avalon I and II, and Origin), ans would be more than happy to see her disappear forever at this point. I haven't seen anything in her character that shows any real depth to her. All the depth people here always talk about seem to me to be things they are giving her, essentially inferring that she has, while in reality no real depth has been shown.

I personally think it's very sad that we lose excellent recurring characters like Janet Frasier and Jacob Carter for this kind of nonsense. Janet and Jacob had interesting dynamics with the rest of the cast and some real depth to their characters. Even much more minor characters in the past seemed to have more depth that Vala does.

Has anyone else here noticed that whenever Amanda is not in an episode we get to see this terrible type of character come on the scene? Granted, the only episodes she hasn't been in up until now have been Prometheus Unbound and the ones on right now, but it's still interesting. It's as though the writers think that without her, only some sexed up alien will manage to keep the ratings afloat.

I really am interested in reading the original plans for season 9 when Vala was not supposed to be in it, but Carter. Joe Mallozzi did answer a question about it on his thread and clearly stated she wasn't supposed to appear - sometimes fate can be very cruel indeed. I really hope she either gets some depth in her last few episodes or disappears along with Anise (now there's a dynamic that would be interesting to see - they can give each other advice on what to wear).

I shudder to think what would happen if Amanda Tapping decides to leave the show permanently - chances are we'd get more of this trash permanently and that's not only unfortunate for a show that has been successful for years without it, but also for Claudia Black for having to portray it.

acce
August 9th, 2005, 04:12 PM
I understand that you have a different oppinion, and that Vala should stay, but I still think that we should never have her more than the episode in Season 8 in the promotheus.... In season 9 premiere, she came out of nowhere, in the SGC, and she turned Stargate Sg1 in a real Joke. When I listen SG1 it is not Wormhole X treme I wanna see, But a real good Serious , and little humor sometimes, not Extreme stupidity that may have been fun the first time, but after 4 episodes it's too much!

Vala should Leave forever!

majorsal
August 9th, 2005, 04:42 PM
I'm not a Vala hater, although I did start out not liking her so much. I do have to admit that she's grown on me, but...

I think there's way too much focus on Vala/Daniel. Yes, they had to compensate for AT's absence, but I would have liked to have seen more of Daniel/Teal'c and Daniel/Mitchell and Teal'c/Mitchell to mix it up a bit.

They could even have done a couple of more Sam cameos with Mitchell. Apparently they're good friends. I don't think it would have been that far off, for Mitchell to maybe touch base with her from time to time, maybe to bounce ideas/feelings off of her as he settles into his new role, maybe even to keep trying to convince her to come back. And it would have been very easy to do. They could have gone ahead and shot BB's scenes looking at and talking to the monitor and then shot AT's when she got back and filled it in. That's what they did with Avalon I, so they could have just added a few more.

Honestly, I think a lot of people's problems with Vala, stem from too much Vala all at once. If they'd mixed things up a bit more, made it part of the story but not all of the story, I doubt that there would be nearly this much controversy.

i agree with everything you've said. i didn't want to watch the first five sam-less eps, but decided to give it a try *because* i knew there were other characters on the show i could concentrate on besides daniel and/or vala. well, that's not turning out too great for me. i got to learn about mitchell in avalon 1, but after that, it was too much daniel, vala, and daniel-vala for my tastes *and* interests. when these eps are rerun, i won't be watching them.

i really, really wish they would have balanced these first five eps, even if it meant using vala with other characters besides daniel.

the writers might have gotten their mojo back, but it feels like the heart of the show is gone. i'm sure, for *me*, sam coming back will make a big difference, but it still makes me feel a bit sad.


sally :)

Joxentine
August 9th, 2005, 05:07 PM
I dont think they want to "balance" the episodes because it would reveal too much interaction between the "new" team. I am betting they are waiting for Carter to arrive in order to fully integrate Mitchell. I dont think they thought either Mitchell or Teal'c could drive the first few episodes... it was pretty obvious it would have to be Daniel so its pretty obvious that Daniel would dominate the screen... just so happens that Daniel needs to interact with someone. It cant be Mitchell because like I mentioned they want to wait for the full team to be there. Cant really be Teal'c because his mind is on the Jaffa nation and as the story goes Teal'c doesnt really want to be part of SG-1 anyways.

marimba26
August 9th, 2005, 05:08 PM
I think your handle is cute so I'm going to handle this nicely.


How can a true Stargate fan even consider taking her character serious.

First of all I'm guessing this is a question, right? I am also assuming your question is rhetorical and that you are questioning the concept in general and not anyone specifically. Correct? I sure hope so. I would be really sad if I thought you sincerely believed that one cannot like Vala and be a "true" Stargate fan. I don't actually believe that you would be so crass as to mean it in that way and I'm sure that you wouldn't want anyone to think that you were trying to insult them. So I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you were venting and that your comments weren't meant to insult anyone personally. :)

As for Vala, I get the feeling that we weren't meant to take her seriously. She's the comic relief and she's a nice distraction while Sam is out of the picture. TPTB had to write an arc to cover the time AT was out on materity leave and I think they've done a fine job of it. It has been light-hearted and funny and I'm glad they didn't a write something that was more serious. Starting a serious plot arc would have created a dynamic within the cast and might have made it awkward to bring Sam back. This way we can have a good laugh for now and Sam will be able to come back easily without having missed anything.


She is as lame as she was on Farscape.

A matter of opinion. I won't mention that Vala is nothing like Aeryn because this forum is not about Farscape. Though I'd love to take this discussion up with you privately because I'd love to know why you thought Aeryn was "lame".


Get rid of her already! This last show was one of the worst ever...are they trying to kill Stargate?

Again, a matter of opinion. Personally, I think they have refreshed what was fast becoming a stale show. They have infused new life into the show and I am happy that I actually like it again. I was skeptical at first but I gave it a chance and I'm actually looking forward to new eps for the first time in more than a year. It's a nice change from how I felt last year. :)

marimba26
August 9th, 2005, 05:16 PM
I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw Wayne Brady as a Jaffa. :) Sorry if I misinterpreted the intent of your post, but it brings up something that's bothered me. I've seen a lot of complaints that the new villains aren't scary enough, which makes me wonder, did anyone really find the Goa'uld or Jaffa very scary?

LOL on Wayne Brady--he's a riot! :D As for the bad guys, I think the Orii could be MUCH scarier than the Goa'uld were. I never found the Goa'uld really frightening. They were really more of a thorn than anything. The replicators were cool bc we just couldn't beat them, then O'Neill solved that and voila, we are sans villian.

I like the Orii a lot. Not only are they really powerful, they have a cult of followers. I found the whole arc to be reminiscent of the Middle Ages, the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition (go ahead, have that Python moment now lol). Violence in the name of religion is MUCH scarier to me. Just a thought, even if it's a bit OT :D

dmovies
August 9th, 2005, 05:17 PM
I personally dislike Vala as a character from the 4 episodes I've seen her in (PU, Avalon I and II, and Origin), ans would be more than happy to see her disappear forever at this point. I haven't seen anything in her character that shows any real depth to her. All the depth people here always talk about seem to me to be things they are giving her, essentially inferring that she has, while in reality no real depth has been shown.

I personally think it's very sad that we lose excellent recurring characters like Janet Frasier and Jacob Carter for this kind of nonsense. Janet and Jacob had interesting dynamics with the rest of the cast and some real depth to their characters. Even much more minor characters in the past seemed to have more depth that Vala does.

Has anyone else here noticed that whenever Amanda is not in an episode we get to see this terrible type of character come on the scene? Granted, the only episodes she hasn't been in up until now have been Prometheus Unbound and the ones on right now, but it's still interesting. It's as though the writers think that without her, only some sexed up alien will manage to keep the ratings afloat.

I really am interested in reading the original plans for season 9 when Vala was not supposed to be in it, but Carter. Joe Mallozzi did answer a question about it on his thread and clearly stated she wasn't supposed to appear - sometimes fate can be very cruel indeed. I really hope she either gets some depth in her last few episodes or disappears along with Anise (now there's a dynamic that would be interesting to see - they can give each other advice on what to wear).

I shudder to think what would happen if Amanda Tapping decides to leave the show permanently - chances are we'd get more of this trash permanently and that's not only unfortunate for a show that has been successful for years without it, but also for Claudia Black for having to portray it.
My husband and I feel the Vala character is annoying. That's putting it as nice as I can , his comment was a little more graphic . If she never appears again on Sg1 I'll be thrilled. Now, can we get the very cute Cameron Mitchell a personality. Please?>

majorsal
August 9th, 2005, 05:26 PM
I personally think it's very sad that we lose excellent recurring characters like Janet Frasier and Jacob Carter for this kind of nonsense. Janet and Jacob had interesting dynamics with the rest of the cast and some real depth to their characters. Even much more minor characters in the past seemed to have more depth that Vala does.


and they felt *real*. vala is too cartoonish for my tastes. i really felt that they were going somewhere good with what happened to vala in avalon 1, but then reversed the foward momentum with more sex kitten behavior. man, i know there are fans that are really enjoying that part of her character, but for me, that kind of behavior is icing on a cake, not the entire cake. flesh her out more without showing more flesh.


I really am interested in reading the original plans for season 9 when Vala was not supposed to be in it, but Carter. Joe Mallozzi did answer a question about it on his thread and clearly stated she wasn't supposed to appear - sometimes fate can be very cruel indeed. I really hope she either gets some depth in her last few episodes or disappears along with Anise (now there's a dynamic that would be interesting to see - they can give each other advice on what to wear).

i'd like (understatement) to know what their originals ideas were too. ;)

i'd really like to see vala interact with sam, because i'd like to see vala have to work a relationship where her sex games wouldn't work. sam wouldn't have any patience with that crap, and would tell her so i think. vala would *have* to settle down and start behaving... well, start behaving. :p


I shudder to think what would happen if Amanda Tapping decides to leave the show permanently - chances are we'd get more of this trash permanently and that's not only unfortunate for a show that has been successful for years without it, but also for Claudia Black for having to portray it.

can you image if they'd had taken vala seriously? or more aptly put, had vala serious? i'm a HUGE fan of Xena, but if the writers hadn't taken that character seriously, or they'd hired someone other than the *wonderful* lucy lawless, that character might have come off as a cartoon. Xena had their funny eps, but they also showed unbelievable character growth that was only possible with those writers and actors on that show. Rob Tapert created Xena, and if he'd created vala... can you imagine? Xena fans will know just what i'm talking about.


i don't really care for vala, but i see the 'potential' in her. i see flashes and moments of something that could be great. i wonder if next week's ep will let us see some of that potential greatness?...


sally :)

Joxentine
August 9th, 2005, 05:33 PM
I agree, I see potential in her. When she pulled the "stoning" out of the bag I thought to myself that they were gonna give her depth. A reason to her acting like that other than "being a slut" as so many people seem to think of her.

She cant simply be a "dumb girl" if she survived out in the galaxy alone for so long and actually took over the Prometheus from trained military personnel.

majorsal
August 9th, 2005, 05:48 PM
As for Vala, I get the feeling that we weren't meant to take her seriously. She's the comic relief and she's a nice distraction while Sam is out of the picture. TPTB had to write an arc to cover the time AT was out on materity leave and I think they've done a fine job of it. It has been light-hearted and funny and I'm glad they didn't a write something that was more serious. Starting a serious plot arc would have created a dynamic within the cast and might have made it awkward to bring Sam back. This way we can have a good laugh for now and Sam will be able to come back easily without having missed anything.

hey, you're making me rethink my 'serious vala' ideas. :p really. ;)



sally :D

marimba26
August 9th, 2005, 05:50 PM
Okay, while I am SO not going to jump into this thing between you and DB, I did have a comment on this particular post.



You ask if we expect actors to talk negative about their peers in commentaries and interviews citing Star Trek as an example. Regardless of what they said in I&C's we still know that they didn't get along. If there's negativity and animosity it will surface somehow.

Actually, I'm not sure about that, especially with this particular bunch of PTBs. I'll use Corin Nemec as an example. It was only mentioned just in the last year or so that Corin was cut loose bc someone did not like "working with him". I am not going to mention ANY actors' names in this post bc that's against the rules here. I also heard several comments from various actors/PTBs at the last con I was at that led me to believe that there might have been some tension in years past. These comments were the first virtually anyone heard of that particular situation and yet it went on for years. I think if this PTB wants to clam up, it does. They only tell us what they want us to hear because it does not serve their interests to do otherwise.


To implement that everyone -SG1 actors, producers and writers - would talk positive about Claudia Black only to sell the new season is a very cynical approach IMHO.

Again, I beg to differ. Any of the older shippers around here will remember a comment that was made on thread by a PTB early in season 8 after "Affinity". The shippers were pretty angry about the episode and that particular PTB came on (more than once) and led everyone to believe that the much sought after resolution was going to happen if they could only be a little more patient. Didn't happen. Total waste of time. That said, Claudia Black is a unique and talented actress. I think the world of her and I really enjoy Vala. So I really don't think their comments concerning Vala were to sell DVDs because Claudia's talent speaks for itself. But I wouldn't put it past some of them to say virtually anything to keep people watching.


Stargate DVD commentaries themselves always seem pretty honest to me. They DO talk about things that didn't come out the way they wanted and about collaborations that weren't as enjoyable.

While they do talk about lots of interesting things on the commentaries, they DON'T talk about subjects they want to avoid. I can't even count how many emotional scenes between characters were ignored in the commentaries while whoever was talking went on and on about some minute aspect of lighting. Ugh, it seems like only Martin Wood pays attention to emotional moments between characters any more. So yes, they are honest in certain aspects, unless it's a subject they seem to want to avoid to avoid any undue controversy (I'm talking mainly ship here).

Just some thoughts for you to consider. :)

marimba26
August 9th, 2005, 06:12 PM
I agree, I see potential in her. When she pulled the "stoning" out of the bag I thought to myself that they were gonna give her depth. A reason to her acting like that other than "being a slut" as so many people seem to think of her.

She cant simply be a "dumb girl" if she survived out in the galaxy alone for so long and actually took over the Prometheus from trained military personnel.

I agree about her potential. She repeatedly hints at a dark and painful past and it would be interesting to explore that. I got the feeling when she said all that after she propositioned Daniel (Ties That Bind) that she wasn't really joking. He gave her an out to avoid talking about painful things when he asked her if she was "messing with him" and she took it. I think Vala is basically positive and that she doesn't want to relive a painful past. As for her being a total hussy, I think it's hilarious--and I also think that she does what she needs to do to survive. If being a hussy makes her life alone in a tough universe a little better, who can blame her? I definitely think she has a lot of room for development and I'd love to see that.

SunKrux
August 9th, 2005, 06:51 PM
Ok...OK...im strange http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/cwm/3dlil/buck.gif

It's ok, embrace your strangeness. ;)

Vala rules! (had to keep this post on topic. ;) )

Sum1
August 9th, 2005, 06:58 PM
I agree about her potential. She repeatedly hints at a dark and painful past and it would be interesting to explore that. I got the feeling when she said all that after she propositioned Daniel (Ties That Bind) that she wasn't really joking. He gave her an out to avoid talking about painful things when he asked her if she was "messing with him" and she took it. I think Vala is basically positive and that she doesn't want to relive a painful past. As for her being a total hussy, I think it's hilarious--and I also think that she does what she needs to do to survive. If being a hussy makes her life alone in a tough universe a little better, who can blame her? I definitely think she has a lot of room for development and I'd love to see that.

These traits you're talking about do make for interesting points, but once again you're adding them to Vala when they haven't really been established. There's been plenty of opportunity to look at these kinds of things in the episodes she has been in so far, but from the ones I saw that hasn't happened.

Just to bring in a counter example (it's the same one I used on the bad seuxal references threads), in season 1 we were introduced to Kendra on the planet Cimmeria in "Thor's Hammer". In that episode we found out that she was an ex-host like Vala, which Goa'uld captured her, how she escaped, her relationship with the people of Cimmeria, a bit of inside into the struggle of hosts and symbiotes, etc. Add to that the information we got about goa'uld technology (the healing device and wrist device) along with the introduction of the Asgard and their relations with the Goa'uld, and you see lots of not just good plot development, but also good character development. In one episode we got quite a bit of information regarding a character who was never seen again (though was mentioned).

Contrast this with Vala, who has appeared so far in five episodes. How much development can you see she has gotten in comparison in so much time? I don't mean that we have to learn everything about her at once, but at least something to add depth to her. We've seen it done before, so there really is very little excuse for this other than sloppiness or other motives behind what Vala is there for.

Sum1
August 9th, 2005, 07:03 PM
I agree, I see potential in her. When she pulled the "stoning" out of the bag I thought to myself that they were gonna give her depth. A reason to her acting like that other than "being a slut" as so many people seem to think of her.

She cant simply be a "dumb girl" if she survived out in the galaxy alone for so long and actually took over the Prometheus from trained military personnel.

"Promtheus Unbound" really was a terribly contrived and executed episode. Vala taking over the Prometheus was laughable, as was the way SG-3 and the others put up a fight against her. The entire episode was contrived to get Daniel stuck alone with Vala on the ship, with everything else being a means to achieve that end regardless of how incompotent it made everyone else look. I hardly think it gives Vala any depth at all but rather shows poor judgement on the part of everyone who was involved in conceiving and executing that episode.

keshou
August 9th, 2005, 07:57 PM
As for Vala, I get the feeling that we weren't meant to take her seriously. She's the comic relief and she's a nice distraction while Sam is out of the picture. TPTB had to write an arc to cover the time AT was out on materity leave and I think they've done a fine job of it. It has been light-hearted and funny and I'm glad they didn't a write something that was more serious. Starting a serious plot arc would have created a dynamic within the cast and might have made it awkward to bring Sam back. This way we can have a good laugh for now and Sam will be able to come back easily without having missed anything.
Interesting. I think you're right. Although I still think that if they plan on bringing Vala back and turning her into a recurring character that the audience is emotionally invested in (a la Jacob or Bra'tac) they need to give her some depth and not just use her for comic relief. And I still have hope they will before Vala takes off.

I think they very deliberately kept SG-1 from being reassembled until Sam comes back. And I think that makes sense. It wil be interesting to see how the feel of the show changes once Vala leaves and Sam comes back.


Personally, I think they have refreshed what was fast becoming a stale show. They have infused new life into the show and I am happy that I actually like it again. I was skeptical at first but I gave it a chance and I'm actually looking forward to new eps for the first time in more than a year. It's a nice change from how I felt last year. :)
*nods*. That's how I feel. Watching S8 was almost a labor (and I don't mean a labor of love) at times. S9 feels very much like the first season of a new show - with the requisite growing pains. There's been some lame moments and I don't think all the new characters or new villains are hitting on all cylinders yet. But at least I'm not bored watching it. :D

Wraith_King
August 9th, 2005, 08:25 PM
she is funny they but they should tone her down just a litttle bit it was littlle annoying sometimes especially "lets make babies" it got old because she talked about her and daniel to much for one episode

Madeleine
August 9th, 2005, 08:42 PM
I think you mean "quite offensive". If you can demonstrate the to be substantially fallacious, I will consider your take on my comments seriously.

I think YOU mean "kudos to her for being able to communicate exactly what she means in a language that is not her first, even if it might occasionally involve a teeny slip, and even though I quite patently make grammatical slips myself."

Right? Right. Good.

AGateFan
August 10th, 2005, 01:15 AM
It's ok, embrace your strangeness. ;)

Vala rules! (had to keep this post on topic. ;) )

Actually I dont think the topic is Vala rules. Although that would be a counter arguement to the actual topic which is end Vala or the less polite topic from the original poster who appears to have a great desire for the Vala character to go away permanently. There are several other threads where the topic actually is Vala rules. This appears to be sort of the anti-vala thread, although most posters arent so much anti-vala as "anti-vala all the time".

Vala is a fine character but she has been pushed front and center along with Daniel to the detrement of the development of the other characters. But I do agree with marimba26 that right now the show is basically just treading water until Sam gets back and that they probably did this so it would be easier for Sam to jump into the flow of the show. They have introduced some of the plot points for this year but havent delved into any of them very deeply. I expect that to start to change this week in order to setup the Beachhead ep the next week and the return of SG-1 as a team. I think Valas fate at the end of Beachhead will be unclear and that we will see her return either later this season or some next season. This should make all the Pro, Anti and Neuteral Vala'ers happy..

Kalliope
August 10th, 2005, 03:50 AM
I've read somewhere else earlier today a short report from the latest Creation Con in New Jersey and I must say that I love Michael Shanks more and more every single day :)

From what he was saying there it seems that he likes working with Claudia very much. "He also pointed out the Vala-naysayers were also (largely) the Sam-lovers. But there are always exceptions.
Somebody asked Michael and Chris Judge which guest stars they'd most enjoyed working with. Chris said whoever he got to kiss, basically, while Michael said, flat-out, Claudia Black. He was asked, twice, "but what about-" Nope. He wouldn't change his answer."

knowsfords
August 10th, 2005, 03:59 AM
I actually believe that what Vala confided to Daniel to be the truth, but in true Vala form she showed a weak moment and covered it by pretending to be joking.

WhatFateAlmondRoca
August 10th, 2005, 04:37 AM
"anti-vala all the time". <some snippety doo dah>

Vala is a fine character but she has been pushed front and center along with Daniel to the detrement of the development of the other characters. But I do agree with marimba26 that right now the show is basically just treading water until Sam gets back and that they probably did this so it would be easier for Sam to jump into the flow of the show.

Yeah, they seem to be treading water until the race starts....Frankly, though, I would have liked to see more of how Mitchell relates to the other characters. He seemed to get short shrift considering he's the new SG-1 leader.

The thing with the Vala character for me is the complete suspension if disbelief the writers are asking me for. I mean, I have a hard time buying that the US military would team up with an intergalactic thief who stole our ship, and that they would have her in the meeting with the Senate appropriations guy. This seemed gratuitous and forced to me, but it did lend to the comedy of the ep. Not only is her character too much in every ep and for 6 in a row but they seem to be warping the show around her in ways that I find very un-SGC like. For me, the show has lost that "hey, this could be happening now" feeling because the verisimilitude factor has seriously dipped (not that it was always 'on' but at least they made an effort to represent the military appropriately). This is not a bad thing per se, its just different from what my experience with SG up to this point. Other people enjoy it, though, so its really just my personal feelings.

I'm anxious for Sam to come back and see what it will be at that time.

TheCorpulent1
August 10th, 2005, 05:15 AM
I've read somewhere else earlier today a short report from the latest Creation Con in New Jersey and I must say that I love Michael Shanks more and more every single day :)

From what he was saying there it seems that he likes working with Claudia very much. "He also pointed out the Vala-naysayers were also (largely) the Sam-lovers. But there are always exceptions.
Somebody asked Michael and Chris Judge which guest stars they'd most enjoyed working with. Chris said whoever he got to kiss, basically, while Michael said, flat-out, Claudia Black. He was asked, twice, "but what about-" Nope. He wouldn't change his answer."
The fact that an actor enjoys working with another actor doesn't necessarily make the characters they play very good. I'm still holding out hope that TPTB allow Vala to develop some more rather than playing her simply for laughs. Pure comedy for the sake of comedy just gets old and boring really, really quickly.

the fifth man
August 10th, 2005, 05:26 AM
Yeah, hopefully we will get to see more than comedy out of her this next episode. Afterall, it does deal with her past.

Kalliope
August 10th, 2005, 05:58 AM
The Ties That Bind wasn't comedy only. If Vala wasn't with them in Kaius' ship they'd probably be killed, she was the only one who knew what to do. Plus the scene in Daniel's room was rather sad for me.

sgatelvr
August 10th, 2005, 06:27 AM
I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw Wayne Brady as a Jaffa. :) Sorry if I misinterpreted the intent of your post, but it brings up something that's bothered me. I've seen a lot of complaints that the new villains aren't scary enough, which makes me wonder, did anyone really find the Goa'uld or Jaffa very scary?
Loved Wayne Brady as first prime!! I almost wished he would break into song! :D And to answer your question about finding the Gou'ald or Jaffa scary--no, not really. I just thought they were evil, egotistical *******s with ZERO personality!!

sgatelvr
August 10th, 2005, 06:40 AM
can you image if they'd had taken vala seriously? or more aptly put, had vala serious? i'm a HUGE fan of Xena, but if the writers hadn't taken that character seriously, or they'd hired someone other than the *wonderful* lucy lawless, that character might have come off as a cartoon. Xena had their funny eps, but they also showed unbelievable character growth that was only possible with those writers and actors on that show. Rob Tapert created Xena, and if he'd created vala... can you imagine? Xena fans will know just what i'm talking about.

LOL! I just pictured Vala as the character played by Bruce Campbell (can't for the life of me remember his name). :D

Darth Buddha
August 10th, 2005, 06:42 AM
I think YOU mean "kudos to her for being able to communicate exactly what she means in a language that is not her first, even if it might occasionally involve a teeny slip, and even though I quite patently make grammatical slips myself."
Is ValaMalduran from a non-English speaking country, or did you mistakenly believe that I was responding to one of Kalliope's posts? Ms. Malduran's location is not filled in, so how was I to know, assuming you are correct?

EDITED TO ADD: After searching posts I DID come across mention of seeing "War of the Worlds" where Ms. Malduran mentioned it was English. I'd assume that anyone making that distinction didn't consider English their first language. So thank you, Madeleine, for clueing me in there.


From what he was saying there it seems that he likes working with Claudia very much. "He also pointed out the Vala-naysayers were also (largely) the Sam-lovers. But there are always exceptions."
Well, I guess I would probably qualify as a nay-sayer by your standards, Kalliope, though I just think Vala is a cardboard character, despite Ms. Black's talents. So I'd be one of those exceptions.

If I could start a poll on the subject, I'd be willing to bet we could put the lie to that statement in short order.


Somebody asked Michael and Chris Judge which guest stars they'd most enjoyed working with. Chris said whoever he got to kiss, basically, while Michael said, flat-out, Claudia Black. He was asked, twice, "but what about-" Nope. He wouldn't change his answer."
What would be the answer that would suit his own self interests? Yep, you got it.

Give it a rest, Kalliope, all you are doing is inflaming the anti-Vala fandom with your over the top pro-Vala fandom.

I wonder when the "dedicated thread rule" will apply here?

binkpmmc
August 10th, 2005, 06:56 AM
Well, I guess I would probably qualify as a nay-sayer by your standards, Kalliope, though I just think Vala is a cardboard character, despite Ms. Black's talents. So I'd be one of those exceptions.

If I could start a poll on the subject, I'd be willing to bet we could put the lie to that statement in short order.


What would be the answer that would suit his own self interests? Yep, you got it.

I cannot green rep you right now, DB, but your posts rock and they are right on. I agree 100% with your comments above. The comment by Mr. Shanks sounds a little like sour grapes to me - has he spoken with everyone who has expressed a dislike of the vala character? Somehow I think not, therefore I wold love to know where he gets his info (I also take it as somewhat of an insult from Mr. Shanks in that he assumes that "largely" anyone who likes Carter is shallow and cannot see beyod that to also like another female character (he is probably confusing Carter fans with Daniel fans . . .).

Mr. Shanks, while I never had a problem with him, has left me cold with several of his insulting remarks made during the PR wagon train. I have seen quite a number of "Sam-Lovers" who think vala is okay but in small doses - seems the biggest problem with her is that she is too much, too often and way to over the top to be so prevelant - her cartoonish antics wear thin.

It is unfortunate that many of those involved in Stargate are unable to accept criticism of anything remotely related to their character or their show, at least that is how most of them seem to me, that they have to either ignore the fans or make insulting remarks about them, and I am not just referring to Mr. Shanks' comment.

Darth Buddha
August 10th, 2005, 09:17 AM
The comment by Mr. Shanks sounds a little like sour grapes to me - has he spoken with everyone who has expressed a dislike of the vala character? Somehow I think not, therefore I wold love to know where he gets his info.
I have to qualify my take on Mr. Shanks' statements just a bit to differentiate them from your take just a tad.

Mr. Shanks is doing exactly what he should be doing from his employer's point of view. He's pushing the season and he's pushing the guest co-star.

There's probably a clause in his contract requiring him to do just that.


(I also take it as somewhat of an insult from Mr. Shanks in that he assumes that "largely" anyone who likes Carter is shallow and cannot see beyod that to also like another female character (he is probably confusing Carter fans with Daniel fans . . .).

Mr. Shanks, while I never had a problem with him, has left me cold with several of his insulting remarks made during the PR wagon train.
The "Vala naysayers" is just a bit of a foot in the mouth (maybe a big toe), and not the first. Remember the "intelligent enough" comment? I can't say I expect more than that; he's an actor, not a press secretary.

Besides, he's probably as cranky from dealing with Vala-naysayers as perhaps some here are with certain Claudia-Black-fangurls. The same unserving opinions over and over would certainly make ME cranky enough to misspeak. If he is facing what I suspect he is, he has my sympathies.

Droops
August 10th, 2005, 09:29 AM
*hands on hips*

Darth Buddha, are you causing trouble again?

KatG
August 10th, 2005, 09:31 AM
Give it a rest, Kalliope, all you are doing is inflaming the anti-Vala fandom with your over the top pro-Vala fandom.

Thank you! I can't green rep you at the moment either, but you hit the nail on the head.

I don't know about other people, but I've always been the type that the more you try to push something on me, the more I resist, even if it's something that I might actually like. Contrary, I know, but it's just the way I am.

KatG
August 10th, 2005, 09:36 AM
*hands on hips*

Darth Buddha, are you causing trouble again?


Of course he is. He wouldn't be Darth if he wasn't. :)

Darth Buddha
August 10th, 2005, 09:39 AM
*hands on hips*

Darth Buddha, are you causing trouble again?
Who me? :D


Of course he is. He wouldn't be Darth if he wasn't. :)
Just purveying a fandom free point of view. I reallly do consider myself a neutral in this argument. After all, they have a good actress playing Vala. If they write Vala with a bit more character and a little less flash, Ms. Black can certainly deliver it.


Contrary, I know, but it's just the way I am.
I understand completely. I'm so contrary that if I drowned, they'd have to look for my body upstream. ;)

Rogue
August 10th, 2005, 09:49 AM
I've read somewhere else earlier today a short report from the latest Creation Con in New Jersey and I must say that I love Michael Shanks more and more every single day :)

From what he was saying there it seems that he likes working with Claudia very much. "He also pointed out the Vala-naysayers were also (largely) the Sam-lovers. But there are always exceptions.
Somebody asked Michael and Chris Judge which guest stars they'd most enjoyed working with. Chris said whoever he got to kiss, basically, while Michael said, flat-out, Claudia Black. He was asked, twice, "but what about-" Nope. He wouldn't change his answer."

Well considering most of Daniels eps are Unas eps, I bet CB is his fav. :p I am sure she is a wonderful person to work with and a great actress.

Regarding his comment about Sam Fans being the Vala-naysayser, how does he know? He is just toting the company line, blaming one segment of the fandom for a poorly written character. They did the same thing with Pete.

Droops
August 10th, 2005, 09:56 AM
Who me? :D

Yes you! lol! But it is to be expected.



Just purveying a fandom free point of view. I reallly do consider myself a neutral in this argument. After all, they have a good actress playing Vala. If they write Vala with a bit more character and a little less flash, Ms. Black can certainly deliver it.

Now see, I personally see character in Vala. Most of the flash/fluff is a mask I think. But I know that there's more behind the character (the show hints it, IMO, by saying that she was once a host for example) and I know that anyone who has gotten that far in the universe has done so with a lot of smarts.

So I'm willing to take the flash and fluff and humor, laugh at it, and expect more character to develop as time passes.

If, by the time Claudia Black is gone and Amanda Tapping is back, there's been no character development past what we've seen, I'll be sorely disappointed. It would be naive to say that I have faith in the show's creators that they won't leave her at that, since the capacity to disappoint can sometimes be bottomless. But I do think (and I could be wrong of course) that we'll see more development in the next two episodes.

Hopefully not ALL of it, because I would like to see the character come back and develop more as the season goes on.

WhatFateAlmondRoca
August 10th, 2005, 10:18 AM
If, by the time Claudia Black is gone and Amanda Tapping is back, there's been no character development past what we've seen, I'll be sorely disappointed. It would be naive to say that I have faith in the show's creators that they won't leave her at that, since the capacity to disappoint can sometimes be bottomless. But I do think (and I could be wrong of course) that we'll see more development in the next two episodes.


Let's hope so - if they don't they will be sorely underutilizing CB's acting skills IMHO.

Speaking of the show's creators (TPTB) they've delivered season after season of a really good show - terrific characters, intriguing storylines, good messages and some darn good dialogue. I'm with you, I'm hoping against hope that they will go somewhere with Vala!!!

the dancer of spaz
August 10th, 2005, 10:21 AM
I've read somewhere else earlier today a short report from the latest Creation Con in New Jersey and I must say that I love Michael Shanks more and more every single day :)

From what he was saying there it seems that he likes working with Claudia very much. "He also pointed out the Vala-naysayers were also (largely) the Sam-lovers. But there are always exceptions.
Somebody asked Michael and Chris Judge which guest stars they'd most enjoyed working with. Chris said whoever he got to kiss, basically, while Michael said, flat-out, Claudia Black. He was asked, twice, "but what about-" Nope. He wouldn't change his answer."

Do you have a link to that con report? Because, for me, if MS is truly saying things like, "Vala-naysayers were also (largely) the Sam-lovers," and if that ISN'T an interpretation on your part, I'm gonna have some serious issues.

It's one thing for fans to make such generalizations like that. It's a completely different (and annoying, obnoxious, inconsiderate, pompous, ignorant, arrogant, etc.) matter for an actor or a member of the TPTB to do so as well. It basically exacerbates the problem this fandom currently has with the various "camps" and their wars, and "character-fans" and their bouts of insanity. Rather than unifying all fans towards a common thread or AT LEAST some common ground, statements like these only cause further division and friction. Not cool. :S

So... link, please?

Piratejenna
August 10th, 2005, 10:21 AM
Mr. Shanks is doing exactly what he should be doing from his employer's point of view. He's pushing the season and he's pushing the guest co-star.

There's probably a clause in his contract requiring him to do just that.
.

In the interests of the Straight Dope -
DB, you've been pretty hard on people who make assertions which have no foundation in fact. It's a pity you don't hold yourself to the same high standard! Out of curiosity, what experience do you have of working with professional actors? What experience do you have of working on the production side of showbusiness? My guess is absolutely none, because I have worked in the business for over 20 years, and my experience bears no resemblance to to the kind of thing you have been describing. Actors contracts typically contain a confidentiality clause, and a negative obligation not to say or do anything which would would reflect badly on the employer. There would probably also be positive obligations to undertake certain promotional events. This would certainly not extend to a positive obligation to say nice things about co-stars. Michael Shanks is contractually free to praise whoever he wants, or to stay silent. On every occasion when he has had the opportunity, he has chosen to praise CB. On occasions when he has been less happy with aspects of the show, he has said so. You have no evidence to suggest he is being dishonest - this is merely unsubstantiated assertion on your part. There is no contractual reason why he should be dishonest - this is merely ill-informed conjecture on your part. You seem very quick to attack the opinions of others for lacking intellectual rigor, but your own opinions are no better than anyone else's - worse in many ways, because you make stuff up to support your own POV with no regard for the facts.

Madeleine
August 10th, 2005, 10:24 AM
From what he was saying there it seems that he likes working with Claudia very much. "He also pointed out the Vala-naysayers were also (largely) the Sam-lovers.

Yes, I believe he does like working with Claudia. Michael is not a complete rah-rah boy; both before and since his hiatus he's been enthusiastic about some aspects of his storylines and lukewarm about others, and he's praised co-stars before without the extreme praise that claudia is getting.

Lucky me. My tastes are often very similar to michael's. I like to keep in mind though that MS and Mrs W sharing an opinion doesn't make it fact, even if some others share it too ;)

But 'pointing out that the Vala-naysayers are Sam-fans'? I don't think that 's true, either that that's what he did or that Vala-naysayer=Samfan. Prompted by a fan's question at a con he asked if anyone there disliked Vala. A tiny number of hands went up. (Would more have gone up but for people's natural aversion to offending others? Who knows, there might have been people who'd have thought the truth rude.) He asked if any of them were Sam fans. Most were. But then wouldn't most of the hall be fans of Sam, to some extent or other? It's hardly a representative sample. It means little.

And MS certainly never said that Vala-naysayers were sam-lovers. Please don't put words in people's mouths, because even if you think that the thing that you are attributing to them is a nice or harmless or objective thing to say not everyone will, and it's just not fair.

smurf
August 10th, 2005, 10:32 AM
...
But 'pointing out that the Vala-naysayers are Sam-fans'? I don't think that 's true, either that that's what he did or that Vala-naysayer=Samfan. Prompted by a fan's question at a con he asked if anyone there disliked Vala. A tiny number of hands went up. (Would more have gone up but for people's natural aversion to offending others? Who knows, there might have been people who'd have thought the truth rude.) He asked if any of them were Sam fans. Most were. But then wouldn't most of the hall be fans of Sam, to some extent or other? It's hardly a representative sample. It means little.

And MS certainly never said that Vala-naysayers were sam-lovers. Please don't put words in people's mouths, because even if you think that the thing that you are attributing to them is a nice or harmless or objective thing to say not everyone will, and it's just not fair.
He didn't verbalise it, but if that's what happened - asking for anti-vala then asking those people if they are pro-sam - then that's what he's implying.
He could have given a stunning defence of Vala which changes the hardest of beliefs... but he chose to ask if they were Sam-fans.

Rogue
August 10th, 2005, 10:44 AM
Yes, I believe he does like working with Claudia. Michael is not a complete rah-rah boy; both before and since his hiatus he's been enthusiastic about some aspects of his storylines and lukewarm about others, and he's praised co-stars before without the extreme praise that claudia is getting.

Lucky me. My tastes are often very similar to michael's. I like to keep in mind though that MS and Mrs W sharing an opinion doesn't make it fact, even if some others share it too ;)

But 'pointing out that the Vala-naysayers are Sam-fans'? I don't think that 's true, either that that's what he did or that Vala-naysayer=Samfan. Prompted by a fan's question at a con he asked if anyone there disliked Vala. A tiny number of hands went up. (Would more have gone up but for people's natural aversion to offending others? Who knows, there might have been people who'd have thought the truth rude.) He asked if any of them were Sam fans. Most were. But then wouldn't most of the hall be fans of Sam, to some extent or other? It's hardly a representative sample. It means little.

And MS certainly never said that Vala-naysayers were sam-lovers. Please don't put words in people's mouths, because even if you think that the thing that you are attributing to them is a nice or harmless or objective thing to say not everyone will, and it's just not fair.


Oh please! Why didn't he ask if any of them were Teal'c fans or Jack fans? I consider myself a Sam/Teal'c/Jack fan. So I guess 1/3 of me dislikes Vala.

the dancer of spaz
August 10th, 2005, 10:49 AM
He didn't verbalise it, but if that's what happened - asking for anti-vala then asking those people if they are pro-sam - then that's what he's implying.
He could have given a stunning defence of Vala which changes the hardest of beliefs... but he chose to ask if they were Sam-fans.

Exactly. Even if it was just a poll, the meaning behind his questions and the results of the fan response produce the same conclusion as it would if he had directly proposed such a theory.

To me, it doesn't matter if he's saying it directly or merely making the suggestion and letting the results speak for themselves. Either way you look at it, he's trying to make a point by basically generalizing. It only strengthens the barriers between any camps who might be pitted against each other. It might make any feelings strictly Vala fans have towards strictly Sam fans (and, potentially, vice-versa) seem legitimate. It's irresponsible and a little shady - if that's really what he did, anyway. :S

pittsburghgirl
August 10th, 2005, 11:07 AM
Oh please! Why didn't he ask if any of them were Teal'c fans or Jack fans? I consider myself a Sam/Teal'c/Jack fan. So I guess 1/3 of me dislikes Vala.
this whole deal is part and parcel of the bitterness that they are fostering between the different fandoms. They are trying to throw off legit complaints about the shows writing and the portrayals of some of their characters by tryint to make it "fan issue".

Not being there hear what MS had to say makes it difficult-indeed-to know what his agenda was-that is if he had one-but I have to say that the boys from Vancouver do their outmost to divide the fandoms-and that, IMHO-is the worst part of all of this.

The only part of Vala I would like to see end is the over the top sex jokes and near naked clothes that is she is almost wearing.

They can make a tough cookie that is really soft on the inside without dressing her like the space whore from tripping the rift.

Darth Buddha
August 10th, 2005, 11:37 AM
Out of curiosity, what experience do you have of working with professional actors? What experience do you have of working on the production side of showbusiness?
None with actor's contracts. Plenty with contracts with non-disclosure and the obligation not to say anything that reflects badly on the employer.

When trained for interviewing, there were additional requirements not to say anything negative about the company, spelled out even more directly.

One can't imagine that the restrictions on a actor giving fluff interviews would be much more forgiving.


Actors contracts typically contain a confidentiality clause, and a negative obligation not to say or do anything which would would reflect badly on the employer. There would probably also be positive obligations to undertake certain promotional events.
Bingo


This would certainly not extend to a positive obligation to say nice things about co-stars. Michael Shanks is contractually free to praise whoever he wants, or to stay silent. On every occasion when he has had the opportunity, he has chosen to praise CB.
Don't be naive.

Question: "Did you like working with Claudia Black."

Answer: (anything that doesn't violate the no negative part of his contract, and fulfills his obligation to undertake promotional events)

Just what else CAN he say? Just what do you think would happen if he were to refuse to answer? Or say anything less than glowing? There'd be a crap-storm of fandom flames. Do you think he wouldn't get raked over the coals for that, in one form or another? You betcha.

The man has to say nice things. Period. He has no alternative. I've been in that situation before while interviewing candidates, and let me tell you, it sucks. I'd bet the farm he's more hamstrung than I ever was. At least nobody could sue me for slander if I had a slip of the tongue.


On occasions when he has been less happy with aspects of the show, he has said so.
Yep, when he left. Can you provide me with an example where he disses a fellow actor/actress, ever? Can you provide me with an example where he complains about the show since his return to full time status?

I'm asking. If you've got the costar diss, then my reasoning is demonstrably falsified. If you've got the show diss after his return, then I'm at least undermined.


You have no evidence to suggest he is being dishonest - this is merely unsubstantiated assertion on your part. There is no contractual reason why he should be dishonest - this is merely ill-informed conjecture on your part.
Did I SAY he was being dishonest?

No, I did not. I said he MUST be upbeat and say positive things. He's doubtless compelled to do these promotional things by contract, he's doubtless prohibited from saying anything negative by contract or at least by self interest, and if he DID say anything negative, he probably could be sued.

So what I'm saying is that it may all be true, but he'd have to say it or at least something like it whether or not it were true. Unless he wants to shoot himself in the foot, so to speak.


You seem very quick to attack the opinions of others for lacking intellectual rigor, but your own opinions are no better than anyone else's - worse in many ways, because you make stuff up to support your own POV with no regard for the facts.
Hey, you've provided me with the facts needed: contractual obligation to make promo appearances and contractual obligation to say nothing negative about the employer. Let me thank you. The rest is covered by common sense and potentially by slander laws.

Moreover, looking toward whether somebody says something is in their own interest or not is always a valid means of assessing the weight of their statement. It doesn't tell you it is NOT true, it just allows for the possibility that the answer would be much the same regardless of actual truth. Now if somebody says something that is NOT in their own self interest, you've got a pretty good reason to suspect they are being up front. When self interest goes out the window, you are probably seeing good ethics in action.

I'm not so much trying to undermine Claudia Black (as Kalliope and ValaMalduran may think, though I'm not entirely sure of that), nor am I trying to say that Mr. Shanks is a liar. I'm trying to weed out a lot of the dubious bits of "proof" that fandom is using in their arguments. If there is a thread where the other end of the argument is going on, please clue me in... I'm sure there are some arguments I'd take issue with there too. The only reason I bother is because if you cull the questionable bits, the oh-so subjective fanflaming, and the rest, it really boils down to this.

Almost all the "proofs" are not.

Almost all the "evidence" isn't.

Vala will be going away for a while soon anyway, and that IS a fact.

So let's just cut the bad comedy and see what shakes out. Kallliope, ValaMalduran, or any other of Ms. Black's fans don't need to have a fit and drive themselves to distraction by hopelessly, pointlessly, and annoyingly trying to "disprove" the Vala-Naysayers any more than I need to debunk the pro-Vala-thumpers. I have no interest in debunking them, just bringing them down to earth for a while.

I found Vala to be a little lacking personally. That's an opinion, based on certain expectations I have that weren't met. Kalliope and ValaMalduran found Vala to be great, I suppose, but I suspect they are both honest enough to admit that they were so happy to see their favorite star on the screen that they'd pretty much be happy no matter what. They (and even I) would probably tune in if she were on a terrible show that they otherwise hated, just to see how Ms. Black would do... though we'd probably have different takes on it.

You handle yourself pretty well, Piratejenna, but don't claim a line on Straight Dope just yet.


But 'pointing out that the Vala-naysayers are Sam-fans'? I don't think that 's true, either that that's what he did or that Vala-naysayer=Samfan. Prompted by a fan's question at a con he asked if anyone there disliked Vala. A tiny number of hands went up. (Would more have gone up but for people's natural aversion to offending others? Who knows, there might have been people who'd have thought the truth rude.) He asked if any of them were Sam fans. Most were. But then wouldn't most of the hall be fans of Sam, to some extent or other? It's hardly a representative sample. It means little.

And MS certainly never said that Vala-naysayers were sam-lovers. Please don't put words in people's mouths, because even if you think that the thing that you are attributing to them is a nice or harmless or objective thing to say not everyone will, and it's just not fair.
Well, not entirely fair, I must agree. Much like the "SG-1 fans are intelligent enough" bit, there are unintended logical consequences to what he said. If you asked him point blank if he thinks that all fans who don't like the changes aren't "intelligent enough", he'd almost certainly say no. He'd almost have to. If you asked him if he thinks all Vala-naysayers are Sam-fans, he'd probably also have to say no (not so sure though, as the logic there is a little more obvious).

But let's be fair to the guy. His show has been changed radically. The future of the program is on the line. Expecting him not to be rah rah is like expecting Coca Cola executives to NOT be rah rah about New Coke when they changed the formula. The only difference is that Mr. Shanks CAN'T go back to the original formula.

Things have changed, Vala is there for a substantial part of the season. If folks don't tune in to the Vala episodes, that's half the episodes before the mid-season hiatus. They could even be cancelled.

To expect him NOT to push that the changes are good, to expect him NOT to try to get fans to tune in via any argument that's even vaguely appropriate, or to expect him NOT to answer any probing questions in a glowing fashion is grossly unfair.

So he puts his foot in it once in a while. Cut the man a break. So long as he wasn't toked or drunk at the time, chalk it up to a slip of the tongue.

jckfan55
August 10th, 2005, 12:13 PM
this whole deal is part and parcel of the bitterness that they are fostering between the different fandoms. They are trying to throw off legit complaints about the shows writing and the portrayals of some of their characters by tryint to make it "fan issue".

I think of myself as a fan of the *team,* but when I see one member of the team not getting equal treatment it bugs me. I don't mean I count up minutes of air time :rolleyes: but I want to see them all getting good storylines and development. I think Vala has brought out some fan concern because the episodes so far have been practically the Daniel & Vala show. IMHO there is an unbalance, on top of which I find Vala to be a rather undeveloped character. I think I'd like her better in smaller doses. I love Sam, but this isn't a Sam vs. Vala issue. I'm hoping for a good episode with the 2 talented actresses together in one ep.
I wouldn't be surprised if MS & TPTB think we're all pretty weird to get this worked up about a show. But hey, his profession is pretending to be someone else & their livelihoods depend on us watching, so they've got to take it pretty seriously too.

chocdoc
August 10th, 2005, 12:24 PM
Yes, I believe he does like working with Claudia. Michael is not a complete rah-rah boy; both before and since his hiatus he's been enthusiastic about some aspects of his storylines and lukewarm about others, and he's praised co-stars before without the extreme praise that claudia is getting.

Lucky me. My tastes are often very similar to michael's. I like to keep in mind though that MS and Mrs W sharing an opinion doesn't make it fact, even if some others share it too ;)

But 'pointing out that the Vala-naysayers are Sam-fans'? I don't think that 's true, either that that's what he did or that Vala-naysayer=Samfan. Prompted by a fan's question at a con he asked if anyone there disliked Vala. A tiny number of hands went up. (Would more have gone up but for people's natural aversion to offending others? Who knows, there might have been people who'd have thought the truth rude.) He asked if any of them were Sam fans. Most were. But then wouldn't most of the hall be fans of Sam, to some extent or other? It's hardly a representative sample. It means little.

And MS certainly never said that Vala-naysayers were sam-lovers. Please don't put words in people's mouths, because even if you think that the thing that you are attributing to them is a nice or harmless or objective thing to say not everyone will, and it's just not fair.


I believe that he likes working with Claudia Black, too, and that makes sense. She is very talented. And also the first four (maybe five) episodes have largely focused around Daniel and Vala, and I would imagine that MS likes that. IMO, it has been way too focused on Daniel and Vala, to the detriment of Mitchell and Teal'c, but I could see why MS likes it. He is the focus.

When I read something about this at the con, I too felt a bit uneasy just because it seemed unnecessary. I was surprised that actors would bring this up in this way. It would have been better not to ask at all, but since they asked who were the vala nay-sayers, then just leave it at that.

I agree with you --- I'm sure there were many fans there who were also sam fans, and most Sam fans either really like Vala or are neutral about Vala and would like to see her character develop. Just look at this forum. Most sam fans are not nay-sayers.

As well, there are clearly fans who are not Sam fans who really dislike Vala. So it just seemed unnecessary. It implies (although not true) an animosity that is not there.


Clearly, Sam fans do not equal Vala nay-sayers.

JackDaniel41
August 10th, 2005, 12:28 PM
I'm not automatically a Sam fan because I don't like Vala. I accept Sam more because she's from the original cast. I'm also more for "team" than for Sam or Vala. That would be the "real" team...the original SG-1. I've never been to a con but I believe that MS is straightforward about as much as he can be.

Darth Buddha
August 10th, 2005, 12:33 PM
I believe that MS is straightforward about as much as he can be.
That's a good way of putting it "about as much as he can be." I owe you a green.

Uber
August 10th, 2005, 01:24 PM
Yes you! lol! But it is to be expected.

Now see, I personally see character in Vala. Most of the flash/fluff is a mask I think. But I know that there's more behind the character (the show hints it, IMO, by saying that she was once a host for example) and I know that anyone who has gotten that far in the universe has done so with a lot of smarts.

So I'm willing to take the flash and fluff and humor, laugh at it, and expect more character to develop as time passes.

If, by the time Claudia Black is gone and Amanda Tapping is back, there's been no character development past what we've seen, I'll be sorely disappointed. It would be naive to say that I have faith in the show's creators that they won't leave her at that, since the capacity to disappoint can sometimes be bottomless. But I do think (and I could be wrong of course) that we'll see more development in the next two episodes.

Hopefully not ALL of it, because I would like to see the character come back and develop more as the season goes on.I don't necessarily want to see Vala gone permanently. I think she'd be interesting to see a few times a year maybe. See...I'm a Sam fan (duh) but I see potential in Vala...

And why exactly would one dictate the other? Even if I hated Sam, what the heck difference does that make with regard to my impression of Vala? They are BY ALL COUNTS completely unrelated topics...and I'll confess to being irked that the "Sam fan" label somehow pigeonholes me into a perceived fanbase that must then dislike Vala. Please give me a break.

Is this all back to that stupid Farscape vs. Stargate nonsense? That if you appreciate one show and its actors you must then not like the other? Well, I do like both shows. Correction. I liked Farscape. I adore Stargate. As for the actresses, both Amanda and Claudia are delightful and extremely talented women. But trying to judge their characters against each other is ridiculous. We've had 8 years to get to know Sam...and only a few episodes to learn about Vala. There's no way that I could or would want to compare these diametrically opposed personalities, especially since one of them hasn't been fully fleshed out yet. Is it not possible for people to understand that I could actually appreciate both characters? That I don't have to pick one over the other?

This sentiment isn't toward aimed you Droops I agree with you on what you said...I too want to see more depth in her character. I have believed that there was more there and that the over the top sexualization of her wardrobe and dialogue was the defensive mechanism that Jackson said it was. And then I felt sucker-punched when she turned it into a joke. So hopefully she was being sincere at first but felt uncomfortable discussing things like that and chickened out by making it all one big joke.

I just have to believe that there's more to her character than the leather and one liners.

I want to see for instance how she and Sam interact. After all they have something in common...they both hosted a symbiote...now the length of time and their experiences were completely different of course, but both suffered disasterous outcomes. Sam won't be flustered by Vala the way Daniel is...and I'd personally like to see if Sam is able to force Vala into coming to terms with a painful past.

But whether that happens or not, I truly expect that we'll learn more about what makes Vala tick...I'm still hoping that DEEEEEEEEP beneath the surface, she actually has some character and honor. Something redeemable.

But who knows?

:cool:

Darth Buddha
August 10th, 2005, 01:48 PM
While I like Claudia Black (yeah, I know, I repeat myself, just in case some fandom types don't get it the first time), I would have preferred Sarah Gardner, former girlfriend of Daniel, former host of the very old Goa'uld System Lord, Osiris. Given that Osiris was in the service of the Ascended/Descended Anubis, who is apparently even older, there's no telling what might be poking around in her head.

Her absence is one of the biggest continuity lapses in the show. Even if they had to recast the role, she should be a major player in the Stargate universe, even if reluctantly.

Uber
August 10th, 2005, 02:00 PM
While I like Claudia Black (yeah, I know, I repeat myself, just in case some fandom types don't get it the first time), I would have preferred Sarah Gardner, former girlfriend of Daniel, former host of the very old Goa'uld System Lord, Osiris. Given that Osiris was in the service of the Ascended/Descended Anubis, who is apparently even older, there's no telling what might be poking around in her head.

Her absence is one of the biggest continuity lapses in the show. Even if they had to recast the role, she should be a major player in the Stargate universe, even if reluctantly.Then there's also the real world issue of talent availability...Anna-Louise Plowman's schedule and location might cause serious hurdles of her making too many return engagements...

As I understand it, they might be facing the same issue with Claudia Black...

:cool:

Madeleine
August 10th, 2005, 03:00 PM
Yes, MS could have been trying to see if anti-Vala = pro-Sam, or to imply it. Or he could have been trying to imply that once Vala was gone they'd have the bonus of a character they *did* like. Or there might have been something in the fan's question that implied that Vala was a poor Sam-substitute. Or this, or that, or anything.

People will believe what they want to. I just believe in giving the benefit of the doubt. It's more pleasant, and there's hardly ever an actual reason to think the worst of people.

~~~~~


Question: "Did you like working with Claudia Black."

Answer: (anything that doesn't violate the no negative part of his contract, and fulfills his obligation to undertake promotional events)

Just what else CAN he say? Just what do you think would happen if he were to refuse to answer? Or say anything less than glowing? There'd be a crap-storm of fandom flames. Do you think he wouldn't get raked over the coals for that, in one form or another? You betcha.

The man has to say nice things. Period. He has no alternative. I've been in that situation before while interviewing candidates, and let me tell you, it sucks. I'd bet the farm he's more hamstrung than I ever was. At least nobody could sue me for slander if I had a slip of the tongue.

How do you like working with Karen? She's a good actor. I enjoyed working with her. Robin wrote an excellent episode for us.

How do you enjoy working with Charles? He's an incredible actor. He just stuns me, and I find it really challenging to try to equal the quality he brings to each scene. I'm thrilled he'll be back in the later part of the season. I've wanted to work with him ever since I saw him in Dingbats.

I think it's sometimes easy to tell when someone's enthusiastic for real. And I don't think Michael or the other actors are as hamstrung as you think. I remember him saying during s7 which he thought were the good eps of s7 and the less successful ones. AT, DSD and CJ have all said not-entirely-positive things about the show at times. I think the main reason why they don't air masses of grievances about the show is probably because they don't have a great deal. They put their effort into the show, and have invested enough of themselves in the show to feel a good deal of affection for it, warts and all. But I do think that the praise MS has for CB is heartfelt.

Qasim
August 10th, 2005, 03:12 PM
Then there's also the real world issue of talent availability...Anna-Louise Plowman's schedule and location might cause serious hurdles of her making too many return engagements...Yes - she said that and thats why she is not in season 9

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
August 10th, 2005, 03:31 PM
I personally like Vala, With Vala, it's a scifi comedy. Without Vala, um, it's what it was with RDA, less than a Scifi comedy.

Darth Buddha
August 10th, 2005, 03:40 PM
Then there's also the real world issue of talent availability...Anna-Louise Plowman's schedule and location might cause serious hurdles of her making too many return engagements...

As I understand it, they might be facing the same issue with Claudia Black...
That's why I included the option of recasting the role, as they did with Weir. The character in this case is more important than the actress.


People will believe what they want to. I just believe in giving the benefit of the doubt. It's more pleasant, and there's hardly ever an actual reason to think the worst of people.
I used to think that way. Took a decade to learn otherwise. If your life is such that you still believe that, I am not one to wish that you get the "education" I have.

In other words, I think you are a bit naive, but I hope life allows you the luxury of staying that way.


How do you like working with Karen? She's a good actor. I enjoyed working with her. Robin wrote an excellent episode for us.

How do you enjoy working with Charles? He's an incredible actor. He just stuns me, and I find it really challenging to try to equal the quality he brings to each scene. I'm thrilled he'll be back in the later part of the season. I've wanted to work with him ever since I saw him in Dingbats.

I think it's sometimes easy to tell when someone's enthusiastic for real.
From the quotes you've provided, it sounds like he is always enthusiastic about walk in costars.

Never has he had a costar carrying so much of the show with so much riding on the performance of the show. So why not be just that little more enthusiastic when the show needs it?


And I don't think Michael or the other actors are as hamstrung as you think. I remember him saying during s7 which he thought were the good eps of s7 and the less successful ones. AT, DSD and CJ have all said not-entirely-positive things about the show at times. I think the main reason why they don't air masses of grievances about the show is probably because they don't have a great deal. They put their effort into the show, and have invested enough of themselves in the show to feel a good deal of affection for it, warts and all.
Yep, but if they did have serious grievances, they probably are under a gag clause, so what you hear is... what they are allowed to say and no more. If they were unhappy? You'd not likely know about it... until it is late in the day.

Tell me, how open was Shanks about his desire to leave the show prior to the end of Season 5?


But I do think that the praise MS has for CB is heartfelt.
That's nice. Whereas I think it'd be the same even if it weren't... though I don't diss the guy a bit if he's adding a little shine when the show needs it.

Either way, neither of us are taking Shanks particularly to task.

Madeleine
August 10th, 2005, 03:50 PM
neither of us are taking Shanks particularly to task.

:):)

It's just as well, cos you know a funny thing? The aforementioned 'survey' to find if the people who disliked Vala were fans of Sam... I've now seen it attributed to MS in one place AND to CJ elsewhere. A perfect reason to not think the worst of people, since even if it was malintentioned it's evens that we'd be disapproving of the wrong person :o

Darth Buddha
August 10th, 2005, 04:05 PM
:):)

It's just as well, cos you know a funny thing? The aforementioned 'survey' to find if the people who disliked Vala were fans of Sam... I've now seen it attributed to MS in one place AND to CJ elsewhere. A perfect reason to not think the worst of people, since even if it was malintentioned it's evens that we'd be disapproving of the wrong person :o
Good grief! :eek: I owe you one, Madeliene. You actually gave me my only out loud laugh of the day. :p

A quote leaps to mind, but I'm at a loss to recall who said it... "You need a few good lies to get at your projections." :confused:

I guess it pays to have an error estimate in all estimations! ;)

Mio
August 10th, 2005, 04:07 PM
But remember people. We don't have O'Neill. We NEED our source of humor. And hopefully Vala's 5 episodes will keep us content for the entire season.

majorsal
August 10th, 2005, 05:26 PM
Vala is a fine character but she has been pushed front and center along with Daniel to the detrement of the development of the other characters. But I do agree with marimba26 that right now the show is basically just treading water until Sam gets back and that they probably did this so it would be easier for Sam to jump into the flow of the show. They have introduced some of the plot points for this year but havent delved into any of them very deeply. I expect that to start to change this week in order to setup the Beachhead ep the next week and the return of SG-1 as a team. I think Valas fate at the end of Beachhead will be unclear and that we will see her return either later this season or some next season. This should make all the Pro, Anti and Neuteral Vala'ers happy..

i have to say, marimba's assessment of vala's true purpose has greatly affected how i'm now viewing the overabundance of vala. and as a sam fan, it makes me *very* happy to think that everything/everyone is really waiting on sam coming back. (((sam))) but really, seeing how it's being written, it really does come off this way.


sally :)

majorsal
August 10th, 2005, 05:47 PM
I've read somewhere else earlier today a short report from the latest Creation Con in New Jersey and I must say that I love Michael Shanks more and more every single day :)

From what he was saying there it seems that he likes working with Claudia very much. "He also pointed out the Vala-naysayers were also (largely) the Sam-lovers. But there are always exceptions.


i'm sure there's some truth to the majority of ppl unhappy with vala are sam lovers (though i've seen vala intolerance all over the board), but why might that be? could it be because vala is everything opposite of what sam is? they really are polar opposites. even if sam weren't on this show, it'd still not be getting into vala. the female characters i appreciate the most are the ones i want to be like. and that's sam. i don't want to be vala, or anise, or any of the females on the show that have questionable presentations. from what i've heard about aeryn (sp?), she'd be a female character i'd get into.

i also have no doubt that michael shanks is enjoying the vala character. besides the fact that claudia is a great person, i'm sure he's enjoying his character getting all this screen time.



sally :)

SunKrux
August 10th, 2005, 05:51 PM
I don't necessarily want to see Vala gone permanently. I think she'd be interesting to see a few times a year maybe. See...I'm a Sam fan (duh) but I see potential in Vala...

And why exactly would one dictate the other? Even if I hated Sam, what the heck difference does that make with regard to my impression of Vala? They are BY ALL COUNTS completely unrelated topics...and I'll confess to being irked that the "Sam fan" label somehow pigeonholes me into a perceived fanbase that must then dislike Vala. Please give me a break.

Labels on anything but clothes is just wrong...and sometimes it's just wrong on clothes as well (they can be so irritating). ;)


Is this all back to that stupid Farscape vs. Stargate nonsense? That if you appreciate one show and its actors you must then not like the other? Well, I do like both shows. Correction. I liked Farscape. I adore Stargate. As for the actresses, both Amanda and Claudia are delightful and extremely talented women. But trying to judge their characters against each other is ridiculous. We've had 8 years to get to know Sam...and only a few episodes to learn about Vala. There's no way that I could or would want to compare these diametrically opposed personalities, especially since one of them hasn't been fully fleshed out yet. Is it not possible for people to understand that I could actually appreciate both characters? That I don't have to pick one over the other?

I adore both shows. :D Always have, always will. With the advent of DVDs I'll never have to choose one or over the other. :D Ok...I admit it, I kinda do now...but that's only because I haven't been able to afford getting SG on DVD, yet. All my FS DVDs were gifts from my ex. :D

I totally understand that you appreciate both characters...I'm the same way. I think it's stupid that some people want everyone to pick and choose which character is better. :rolleyes:


This sentiment isn't toward aimed you Droops I agree with you on what you said...I too want to see more depth in her character. I have believed that there was more there and that the over the top sexualization of her wardrobe and dialogue was the defensive mechanism that Jackson said it was. And then I felt sucker-punched when she turned it into a joke. So hopefully she was being sincere at first but felt uncomfortable discussing things like that and chickened out by making it all one big joke.

I'm sure were Claudia to be on more eps (who knows what tomorrow brings) we'd see the depth developed a bit slower, but atm, I think they (the writers/directors/actors) are trying to hurry the depth development along. I do believe that the comments Vala made revealing the pain she's lived through over the years, was sincere, but then she (and Daniel possibly) realized how vulerable that made her...so she did what she does best, she turned it into a joke. Defense mechanism in action.


I just have to believe that there's more to her character than the leather and one liners.

I want to see for instance how she and Sam interact. After all they have something in common...they both hosted a symbiote...now the length of time and their experiences were completely different of course, but both suffered disasterous outcomes. Sam won't be flustered by Vala the way Daniel is...and I'd personally like to see if Sam is able to force Vala into coming to terms with a painful past.

I'm with you there! I'd love to see them interact. Not sure Sam would be all that 'warm' towards Vala at first...but I think eventually, they'd form some kind of relationship.


But whether that happens or not, I truly expect that we'll learn more about what makes Vala tick...I'm still hoping that DEEEEEEEEP beneath the surface, she actually has some character and honor. Something redeemable.


I think eventually (given Claudia's schedule and that of SG's schedule) we might. I do think there is some character and honor and definately something redeemable in Vala. It's just a matter of time before we see it. I don't think any one person on SG-1 will bring about her redemtion, I think it will be something each member does, says, gives to Vala that will help her redeem herself. One can not redeem someone else. One can only redeem oneself, imho.

majorsal
August 10th, 2005, 06:39 PM
Yeah, they seem to be treading water until the race starts....Frankly, though, I would have liked to see more of how Mitchell relates to the other characters. He seemed to get short shrift considering he's the new SG-1 leader.

yes. he and landry were the main reasons i went ahead and watched the sam-less eps. oh, and to know what the hayhoo was going on for when sam returned. :p

i said in a previous post that i loved marimba's reasoning for how vala was being written (and i squeed about it), but then with posts like this, i'm reminded how unfair that is to all the other characters.

i think it was another sam fan that said she/he would have loved to have seen more sam scenes in the eps after avalon 1, and as much as i would have loved that, it wasn't *needed*. but mitchell character time was. waaay more than landry or lam too in my opinion. it wouldn't have taken much and could have evened out that overwhelming daniel-vala feel. and poor teal'c.

i truly want to know mitchell. avalon 1 gave me a *very* interesting glimpse into what makes this man. i wish, over these first five eps, we'd have gotten 'more'. (i didn't care for him much, though, in 'the ties that bind')


The thing with the Vala character for me is the complete suspension if disbelief the writers are asking me for. I mean, I have a hard time buying that the US military would team up with an intergalactic thief who stole our ship, and that they would have her in the meeting with the Senate appropriations guy.

yes! :S



This seemed gratuitous and forced to me, but it did lend to the comedy of the ep. Not only is her character too much in every ep and for 6 in a row but they seem to be warping the show around her in ways that I find very un-SGC like. For me, the show has lost that "hey, this could be happening now" feeling because the verisimilitude factor has seriously dipped (not that it was always 'on' but at least they made an effort to represent the military appropriately). This is not a bad thing per se, its just different from what my experience with SG up to this point.

when i saw mitchell and daniel dressed in leather, and daniel 'still' without his glasses... i felt i was watching another show. or a show that was lowering it's standards. they could have still had daniel and mitchell dressing sexy-LIKE, but being so obvious turns me off. like, how 7of9 walked around in a cat suit, even though all the other members of the voyager crew dressed appropriately. uh, why? and 7 was a good character! :rolleyes:

k, i'm done, bye. :p


sally :)

binkpmmc
August 10th, 2005, 08:48 PM
when i saw mitchell and daniel dressed in leather, and daniel 'still' without his glasses... i felt i was watching another show. or a show that was lowering it's standards. sally :)

Hi Sally - couldn't green you at this time but have to say you hit the nail on the head with the above point about a show that is lowering it's standards - my main problem with this show (whatever it is called but it ain't Stargate SG1 IMO) is how they are lowering the quality of what was once a well written, strong and intelligent show with friendship, drama, approrpiate comedy, etc. Now it's, at least for the past episodes, and it does not look good for episode 5, IMO, a cartoon and the characters (at least those that are appearing on screen the majority of the time) are caricatures. They really haven't had much of Teal'c so he hasn't been totally flayed yet - we'll see though.

I fear that when TPTB and the actors say in interviews etc., that this season it is a new show with a new direction that they hope the fans will like it actually means we are now doing comedy and I hope you like it (and not just comedy - cheesy, low quality comedy). Where is the danger Cooper said the earth would face in S9? He saids it was goign to be too dangerous for any more "romps". Seems they have reverted right back to the romps Cooper said they did not have time for anymore. Unless, of course, as showrunner, Cooper just did not know what he was in for with this season (sarcasm button please).

Rogue
August 11th, 2005, 05:06 AM
What I can't understand is why do TPTB feel the need to put the focus on Vala? She has probably had more air time than Cam, Landry, and Tealc combined. I was looking forward to meeting the new commander of SG-1, but he hasn't shown up yet.

I guess Beachhead is the real Season 9 premier, I don't know what you call the previous 5.

Kalliope
August 11th, 2005, 05:39 AM
I guess Beachhead is the real Season 9 premier, I don't know what you call the previous 5.

A nice dose of really fresh air? :p

TheCorpulent1
August 11th, 2005, 05:40 AM
Probably because they only have CB for a limited amount of time. They probably figured that AT's maternity leave left them with CB for the first 5 episodes, so why not make the most of it?

ToasterOnFire
August 11th, 2005, 08:07 AM
A nice dose of really fresh air? :p
Yep, after I sprayed them all with air freshener. :D


Seriously though, I have to echo posters who think we've had way too much of Vala and not enough of everyone else. Regarding the old cast, we saw plenty of Daniel, a smattering of Carter (to be expected due to RL), but what about Teal'c? The political turmoil of the Jaffa could be quite interesting. And where in the hell did Jack go? Never explained, poorly done. Regarding the new cast, what's going on with Cam? He is supposed to lead SG1 right? What about Landry or Lam? Unfortunately, I currently have little interest in them because I know next to nothing about all of them. And these are the people that may end up carrying the SG1 torch, so TPTB better get their act in gear.

Since TPTB have focused so much on Vala, spending a quarter of the entire season predominantly on her, I worry that once she leaves we're going to see a sizeable drop in viewers. I feel like viewers just haven't been encouraged to care about the other remaining cast members.

ann_sgcfan
August 11th, 2005, 08:57 AM
Yep, after I sprayed them all with air freshener. :D


Seriously though, I have to echo posters who think we've had way too much of Vala and not enough of everyone else. Regarding the old cast, we saw plenty of Daniel, a smattering of Carter (to be expected due to RL), but what about Teal'c? The political turmoil of the Jaffa could be quite interesting. And where in the hell did Jack go? Never explained, poorly done. Regarding the new cast, what's going on with Cam? He is supposed to lead SG1 right? What about Landry or Lam? Unfortunately, I currently have little interest in them because I know next to nothing about all of them. And these are the people that may end up carrying the SG1 torch, so TPTB better get their act in gear.

Since TPTB have focused so much on Vala, spending a quarter of the entire season predominantly on her, I worry that once she leaves we're going to see a sizeable drop in viewers. I feel like viewers just haven't been encouraged to care about the other remaining cast members.

Yes I agree with you ToasterOnFire ... Well Said.

As far as the actors/writers/ whoever else would like to believe that Sam fans = antiVala is not true. I hate it when people try to pit one fan base against another. What does that prove or how does that help the situation? I loved SG-1 because of the team dynamics and the great chemistry between the actors. Sam hasn't returned yet, so there obviously isn't that interactions. But what about the characters that are there ...we haven't seen Mitchell, Daniel, and Teal'c interact except for snippets here and there. So I don't really have a good feeling about S9 so far.

I think Claudia Black is a talented actress that has not had a chance to display the range of acting she is capable of. The cheesy one liners and innuendos have made for a very shallow character and show IMO. If the writers could tone down the jokes and actually develop the character. I know I would be happier. Do I look forward to Sam’s return? Absolutely. But that doesn’t make me an AntiVala fan. I think the if they would develop the character then I would like to see some Vala and Sam interacting and keeping the boys on their toes, but not in the manner the writers are giving us now.

KatG
August 11th, 2005, 09:37 AM
i also have no doubt that michael shanks is enjoying the vala character. besides the fact that claudia is a great person, i'm sure he's enjoying his character getting all this screen time.

sally :)

What actor wouldn't enjoy that?

DarkQuee1
August 11th, 2005, 02:24 PM
I haven't seen all the posts, but was anyone posting here, at the Creation Con in question? Because if either MS or CJ said that about the people who don't care for Vala, then it was an appalling comment, designed to fracture even further a fandom that is already too often at odds (or even if one or the other of them raised the issue by asking for a show of hands. There was *no* reason to introduce the Sam-factor into the question. Neither of them are stupid individuals; whoever asked/said that had to know exactly what they were suggesting.)

J.

the dancer of spaz
August 11th, 2005, 03:13 PM
I haven't seen all the posts, but was anyone posting here, at the Creation Con in question? Because if either MS or CJ said that about the people who don't care for Vala, then it was an appalling comment, designed to fracture even further a fandom that is already too often at odds (or even if one or the other of them raised the issue by asking for a show of hands. There was *no* reason to introduce the Sam-factor into the question. Neither of them are stupid individuals; whoever asked/said that had to know exactly what they were suggesting.)

J.

Yep. And I'm still waiting for a link to that con report. ;)

keshou
August 11th, 2005, 03:53 PM
Yep. And I'm still waiting for a link to that con report. ;)
There was a small report in the S/J thread from someone who attended. That's the only one I've read. You'll have to look back several pages to find it.

As I recall from *that* report CJ did the whole poll thing when someone in the audience asked when Vala was going to be killed. Way to phrase a question there. ;)

Although it does tie nicely into the name of this thread "End Vala". :)

ETA: Who I don't want to "End" btw. :p :D

Maxum
August 11th, 2005, 04:10 PM
Well for my two cents: I could care less about pro-Vala, anti-Vala, pro-Sam, or anti-Sam. I love SG-1. All the characters. Period. Full Stop. I can understand why some people feel it's too much Vala or Daniel, but being a "Daniel" fan, I'm not complaining. I too wish there was more Teal'c interaction with Daniel, but whatever. As for Mitchell, he can wait another episode until Sam comes back, then I think everything will start to mesh.

I dont' believe that SG-1 is lowering it's standards. It doesn't bother me one iota that Vala is scantilly clad. Heck, I see worse going out my front door on the way to the beach. As for Daniel and his glasses. Never understood why he keeps wearing them. For one thing - contacts. For another, he's been in the sarcophogus so many times, you'd think it would have cured his vision problems. Lastly, you would think after bein an ascended being, they could have dropped him on that planet with no clothes and 20/20 vision. I like when I can see those baby blues. I liked Daniel with glasses for the first couple of seasons, I don't think it's necessary for him to wear them and not still be "Daniel."

I also love the new season. For one thing, I felt that the character of Daniel was at least more serious. Last season, it felt like the writers had to make every comment between Daniel and Jack a comedic thing. I missed those serious moments between their two characters. So, for me, I'm enjoying the banter, the moodiness, ect., and the comedy. Although, I don't think all the episodes were all comedy. Avalon Part II and Origin certainly weren't.

So here's my take (for what it's worth to anyone) on what I've read on this thread:

1. I love Vala and I love Sam. Period.
2. I don't think MS meant to insult, instigate, misrepresent, or upset anyone. If he did, indeed, say whatever. If fans are splitting into camps, it's the fans that are doing it. Me, I'm not in any camp. I'm in ALL the camps: Pro Sam, Pro Daniel, Pro Tealc, etc.
3. If you're tired of the Vala/Daniel thing; it will be ending after tomorrow night. One more episode. Personally, I am REALLY going to miss her and them together.
4. I'm really looking forward to seeing Sam again NEXT week.
5. I'm also very much looking forward to seeing the team come together, and I agree, it has to wait until Sam comes back.

In closing, I love this show, and I love this new season. Bring on the next episode.

keshou
August 11th, 2005, 04:36 PM
1. I love Vala and I love Sam. Period.
2. I don't think MS meant to insult, instigate, misrepresent, or upset anyone. If he did, indeed, say whatever. If fans are splitting into camps, it's the fans that are doing it. Me, I'm not in any camp. I'm in ALL the camps: Pro Sam, Pro Daniel, Pro Tealc, etc.
3. If you're tired of the Vala/Daniel thing; it will be ending after tomorrow night. One more episode. Personally, I am REALLY going to miss her and them together.
4. I'm really looking forward to seeing Sam again NEXT week.
5. I'm also very much looking forward to seeing the team come together, and I agree, it has to wait until Sam comes back.
I totally agree with everything you said above, although I'm not sure I LOVE Vala. They're going to have to give her some depth over and above her oneliners for me to be invested in what happens to her. But she has a ton of potential.

Extra kudos on your comment about the fans. ;) :D

binkpmmc
August 11th, 2005, 06:38 PM
Yep, after I sprayed them all with air freshener. :

Can I borrow your air freshener - I've run out . . . .

Dana_Jeanne
August 11th, 2005, 07:17 PM
:):)It's just as well, cos you know a funny thing? The aforementioned 'survey' to find if the people who disliked Vala were fans of Sam... I've now seen it attributed to MS in one place AND to CJ elsewhere. A perfect reason to not think the worst of people, since even if it was malintentioned it's evens that we'd be disapproving of the wrong person :o
As I remember it, MS asked how many people liked Vala, and then how many didn't. Then CJ stood up and asked "how many of you who like Sam don't like Vala?" It was actually done in good spirits; they were both grinning and laughing.

Dana Jeanne

Mongo's Girl
August 11th, 2005, 07:23 PM
So here's my take (for what it's worth to anyone) on what I've read on this thread:

1. I love Vala and I love Sam. Period.
2. I don't think MS meant to insult, instigate, misrepresent, or upset anyone. If he did, indeed, say whatever. If fans are splitting into camps, it's the fans that are doing it. Me, I'm not in any camp. I'm in ALL the camps: Pro Sam, Pro Daniel, Pro Tealc, etc.
3. If you're tired of the Vala/Daniel thing; it will be ending after tomorrow night. One more episode. Personally, I am REALLY going to miss her and them together.
4. I'm really looking forward to seeing Sam again NEXT week.
5. I'm also very much looking forward to seeing the team come together, and I agree, it has to wait until Sam comes back.

In closing, I love this show, and I love this new season. Bring on the next episode.

Jumping on your bandwagon also. :)

DarkQuee1
August 11th, 2005, 08:33 PM
As I remember it, MS asked how many people liked Vala, and then how many didn't. Then CJ stood up and asked "how many of you who like Sam don't like Vala?" It was actually done in good spirits; they were both grinning and laughing.

Dana Jeanne


*They* may have been grinning and laughing and in good spirits, but it was still, IMO, a mean-spirited question. It was still making it seem as if the only reason not to like Vala was because you were a disgruntled Sam fan. You know, I've seen a lot of posts where someone makes a really nasty comment or makes a dig, and then puts <<g>> after it (a sort of, "Gee, I'm just funnin' here. Can't you take a joke?"). Well, it doesn't make the comment any more palatable or acceptable.

And it doesn't here either, just because MS and CJ thought it was cute. I'll say it again: neither of them is stupid, so I have to think they knew exactly what they were doing.


J.

Darth Buddha
August 11th, 2005, 09:25 PM
*They* may have been grinning and laughing and in good spirits, but it was still, IMO, a mean-spirited question.
Could be mean spirited. But what about it hinting at frustration over the mixed reception to Vala and anxiety about the future of the show. After all, there's nothing they can do about the way Vala was written NOW, and the complaints might get as old as... well... certain Vala fans trying to "prove" that those who aren't taken with Vala are "wrong". I'm sure a LOT of people know exactly how THAT feels.

Six of one, half dozen of the other. I'm not wild about the way Vala was done, but I can empathize with anybody who'd have to field a bunch of cranky fans!

PsychoPenguin
August 11th, 2005, 11:42 PM
Six of one, half dozen of the other. I'm not wild about the way Vala was done, but I can empathize with anybody who'd have to field a bunch of cranky fans!

That really depends on whether or not you think MS and CJ actually owe any respect to their fans. Technically, you could say that if a show's viewership numbers in the low millions, then potentially offending a few hundred fans in a geographical location, and then possibly a few thousand onliners who might hear about it later, just can't be that big a deal. They're a very low percentage of the viewing audience, after all. So other than accepting the appearance fee invited guests get paid out of the con's admissions, and acting just nicely enough to be invited to more promotional opportunities, why should any of the actors care?

Yet, TPTB seem to want us to think that they do care and that to them, fandom is a big deal. They post spoilers online and hold these cons and release DVDs, counting on that hardcore audience to suck them up and pay them money. They do a certain amount of catering to this small group of hardcorers, implying that they hold them in some sort of esteem.

So like I said, it really depends on whether or not you think they believe they truly owe something to those fans and thus shouldn't have gone the extra-rude mile, or if their responsibility to the show ends whenever they walk off the soundstage at the end of the day. If you vote the latter option, then obviously the actors should feel free to be cranky about having to deal with a fan question over and over. It's not what they signed on for in their employment agreement after all; they signed on to act, not be PR jockeys.

But if you think the former, well then, I think you have reason to be upset. And I would think that TPTB would do a little better in coaching their talent before they let them go out in public and be mouthpieces for their show.

Purpleyin
August 12th, 2005, 07:00 AM
On Vala: Right now I like her, she's 'non-serious' as someone said but that's one of the reasons why I like her, just that I won't love the character until she gets the depth that's obviously there but we aren't being shown.

Don't like her as a person, quite happy infact that she isn't some perfect woman on the show and I don't dislike her for not being some strong woman, like Aeryn on Farscape. I'm pretty pleased for Claudia getting to stretch her wings. Has political correctness got to the point that people don't like having a female character that's strong partially because uses sex/sex appeal to her advantage?

Okay, so it isn't an appreciated quality and is considered manipulative and immoral but sometimes characters are immoral and why not? I don't want my characters to fit nicely with modern Earth ideals when they're meant to be from another planet entirely, and have had a dark/traumatic past. If anyone thinks Vala like this is wrong, then just how would you expect her to be after the things that have so far been insinuated to have happened to her? People cope differently and sometimes they don't make the right choices, or act virtuously - it's something I appreciate them showing. I prefer that she's got plenty of flaws, compared to all our learned and wise SG-1. She mixes stuff up a bit, which I welcome. I'd probably get bored of it if she were a main character but she isn't so I'm happy with her appearances so far, just hoping that they do get to the depth soon. There have perhaps been hints to it, serious moments, even though they are few and far between. I'd count this as one.

I actually believe that what Vala confided to Daniel to be the truth, but in true Vala form she showed a weak moment and covered it by pretending to be joking.
Maybe me seeing more to her than on the surface is unusual, because I suppose for all we know she is smart yet simply vain, selfish and using sex as a weapon - and nothing more. It's probably that I want to see more than makes me open to interpreting moments deeper than they might be seen by people who don't really care for the character much yet, but I really do hope something more is seen for her character in the next episode and/or if she returns.

As for it following the plot line of Daniel redeeming her, well maybe to some extent that will be true. But maybe she was looking for something in him and for a change to her way of life, rather than him unexpectedly showing her 'the way'. It's probably is cliche either way, but I don't tend to dismiss stuff because it might be, even the most cliche things can sometimes work if written well overall. Though well written comes under opinion largely so...


What frustrates me the most is I know that she's smart, I know that she's confident, yet it's all ruined when she acts like a child. She's immature, uncaring, impatient, and runs around with a constant cutsie-wootsie "did I do that?" attitude. She has little patience when Daniel was upset that he didn't go to Atlantis, but has no problem trying to seduce him when he's not interested. Worse, she pulls sob stories out of a hat when the seduction fails. This is a woman who plays games to get what she wants. That's unfortunately common practice in high schools, but to see it in a woman of her age is awkward at best.

Maybe that's the point, she's a woman physically but if her story of being a goa'uld host is true then when did that happen? Could it be she didn't get a chance to grow up much because she got taken as a host when she was young and pretty as they tend to go for?

I don't like her as a person, the way she acts is often childish but I think that much like you get McKay having his barriers of snark, Vala has this mechanism for coping that includes acting these ways. She doesn't take much seriously, even though she is smart, but maybe it's because she finds stuff easier to deal with that way - so far she's managed to get away with it which is probably why it's continued. No one much seems to have called her on it before so she carries on - if it's ain't broke why fix it sort of scenario. I just see that as her way of coping (or perhaps not coping?) with the past that the writers haven't explored much yet.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 12th, 2005, 09:30 AM
In another thread someone said that Vala was not so much a problem as she was a symptom(apologies to the original poster; I'm paraphrasing, here. :) ) I agree with this statement, because I think every actor they've hired is exceptionally talented. That, and the fact that the series is in its ninth year says a lot about the intelligence of TPTB.

However - and based on nothing more than the evidence that presents itself on screen - I get the feeling that the boys at Bridge have lost their way. I get the sense of guys who are so distracted by what they have - in this case, CB to write for - that they're completely distracted. They appear to have forgotten which genre they are writing in, or at least, which series in the genre.

Will Sam's return somehow miraculously "save" the show? Only if she somehow figures out how to deactivate the farcefield that appears to have surrounded the writers.

Will Beachead give us great Sam and Vala stuff? I bet it won't. I bet they don't compare notes about Goa'uld possession and device manipulation. At most, I bet their interaction amounts to Vala giving Sam a sexually explicit putdown. This is a bet I'd love to lose a lot of money on, but I bet I won't.... :(

UhSir
August 12th, 2005, 10:00 AM
Will Sam's return somehow miraculously "save" the show?
Will Beachead give us great Sam and Vala stuff?


Tune in next week, same gate-time, same gate-channel!

:D Sorry, I couldn't resist that.

I'm sure hoping it's a "yes" to both questions. :S But my fingers are crossed (Jonas Quinn style, of course), just in case! :p

Darth Buddha
August 12th, 2005, 12:38 PM
In another thread someone said that Vala was not so much a problem as she was a symptom(apologies to the original poster; I'm paraphrasing, here. :) ) I agree with this statement, because I think every actor they've hired is exceptionally talented. That, and the fact that the series is in its ninth year says a lot about the intelligence of TPTB.

However - and based on nothing more than the evidence that presents itself on screen - I get the feeling that the boys at Bridge have lost their way. I get the sense of guys who are so distracted by what they have - in this case, CB to write for - that they're completely distracted. They appear to have forgotten which genre they are writing in, or at least, which series in the genre.
I wish I'd caught that original thread. That's an excellent way of viewing it.

When I first read of Vala, I expected a former Goa'uld host(ess) along the lines of Sarah Gardner after Osiris was removed but then gone rogue. In other words, a tragically damaged character with an edge. I imagined Daniel to have immense empathy for this character because of the loss of his wife because of the Goa'uld taking her as a host. I expected him to also be reminded of poor Sarah's trauma.

Instead we got a caricature of other former Goa'uld hosts using bad sexual innuendo and Earth colloquialisms ("What's a girl to do?" "Can't blame a girl for trying." etc.) that are out of place in an offworlder. Granted, Black has the comic timing to DO such a character, but it isn't really the sort of long term character we are accustomed too.

Vala is more like Urgo than Sarah Gardner, and I want her removed from my head immediately!

WhatFateAlmondRoca
August 12th, 2005, 12:38 PM
Tune in next week, same gate-time, same gate-channel!

:D Sorry, I couldn't resist that.

LOL

This is SO my little .00001 cents worth based on nothing but my own gut: Somehow I don't see Vala and Sam exchanging hand-device tips over a cuppa Joe. I see more of a "go suck lemons" deal. I just don't picture Vala hitting it off with someone who is also strong, cunning and beautiful. I think Vala might see Sam as a competitor. From what I've seen of women working together in my various jobs, women who feel they have to try really really hard - for whatever the reason - can't stand those who don't. Now if she insults Sam...rrrrrrr...that'll make me madder than a Goa'uld who has just been relieved of their host!!! :p

Whatever the dynamic is between them it is sure to be interesting....

the dancer of spaz
August 12th, 2005, 01:15 PM
At most, I bet their interaction amounts to Vala giving Sam a sexually explicit putdown. This is a bet I'd love to lose a lot of money on, but I bet I won't.... :(

Or a compliment, perhaps? :P

Oh, how I hope you're wrong, though! I'd rather they not interact at all, if it's reduced to Vala saying something like, "You're better looking than I thought you'd be," or "You're much taller than I imagined," or "You're much more gorgeous than Daniel described."

Yipes. :rolleyes:

Rogue
August 12th, 2005, 01:53 PM
Or a compliment, perhaps? :P

Oh, how I hope you're wrong, though! I'd rather they not interact at all, if it's reduced to Vala saying something like, "You're better looking than I thought you'd be," or "You're much taller than I imagined," or "You're much more gorgeous than Daniel described."

Yipes. :rolleyes:

Too bad there isn't a button on the remote to selectively mute a character.

WhatFateAlmondRoca
August 12th, 2005, 02:01 PM
Too bad there isn't a button on the remote to selectively mute a character.

Yeah, that won't work on a show like Stargate. I tried to do that in Avalon 1.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 12th, 2005, 02:07 PM
Tune in next week, same gate-time, same gate-channel!


:p :p :p

Vala does dress in black leather a lot. She'd look good in a cape and a mask, but, whatyathink of Daniel in green and red spandex?

Yeah... it could work....

esoap524
August 12th, 2005, 02:12 PM
So here's my take (for what it's worth to anyone) on what I've read on this thread:

1. I love Vala and I love Sam. Period.
2. I don't think MS meant to insult, instigate, misrepresent, or upset anyone. If he did, indeed, say whatever. If fans are splitting into camps, it's the fans that are doing it. Me, I'm not in any camp. I'm in ALL the camps: Pro Sam, Pro Daniel, Pro Tealc, etc.
3. If you're tired of the Vala/Daniel thing; it will be ending after tomorrow night. One more episode. Personally, I am REALLY going to miss her and them together.
4. I'm really looking forward to seeing Sam again NEXT week.
5. I'm also very much looking forward to seeing the team come together, and I agree, it has to wait until Sam comes back.

In closing, I love this show, and I love this new season. Bring on the next episode.

I loved your post! I'm one of those love Vala/like Sam people, but I think that's mainly because I really like Claudia. It's been fun watching the show, overall, and I like that Daniel gets to do something a little different (like be really, really annoyed) It makes me laugh.

As for the con "comments", anyone who's been to one of those knows that it gets crazy. the "live" audience doesn't help the situation at all. It's like improv or something, especially if you get two actors on stage who can play off each other. So lighten up on poor Shanks, people! I'm sure he meant no disrespect and was just going with the flow of things. He's there to entertain and likely the people he was entertaining...and entertaining with (Judge)...were enjoying themselves and getting their money's worth.

For the record, I'm going to miss the craziness that is Vala.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 12th, 2005, 02:20 PM
Somehow I don't see Vala and Sam exchanging hand-device tips over a cuppa Joe.

Unless Vala happens to know some kinky uses for the hand devices. :rolleyes:



Whatever the dynamic is between them it is sure to be interesting....

Do me a favor, would (generic) you? Next week, after Beachead, without spoiling anything(because some of us (Me! Me! Me!) don't want to be spoiled), give a signal indicating whether or not there was what you'd call a dynamic between the two? Some kind of a 'one if by land, and two if by sea' sort of signal? :D

majorsal
August 12th, 2005, 02:54 PM
Okay, so it isn't an appreciated quality and is considered manipulative and immoral but sometimes characters are immoral and why not? I don't want my characters to fit nicely with modern Earth ideals when they're meant to be from another planet entirely, and have had a dark/traumatic past. If anyone thinks Vala like this is wrong, then just how would you expect her to be after the things that have so far been insinuated to have happened to her? People cope differently and sometimes they don't make the right choices, or act virtuously - it's something I appreciate them showing. I prefer that she's got plenty of flaws, compared to all our learned and wise SG-1. She mixes stuff up a bit, which I welcome. I'd probably get bored of it if she were a main character but she isn't so I'm happy with her appearances so far, just hoping that they do get to the depth soon. There have perhaps been hints to it, serious moments, even though they are few and far between. I'd count this as one.




while i totally agree with what you've just said, i like what vala stands for more than i like vala herself. and i have absolutely no doubts that vala wouldn't be that big of a deal to me if i'd had been able to focus on someone(s) else when she was on. but, she and the daniel-vala stuff dominated the first four eps. five, if you count tonights, which i'm sure is just another daniel-vala showcase.

everyone has a storyline they're not attracted to, or a character they don't care for, but it's easy enough to just watch it and basically get it over with because you have other characters/storylines to pay attention to. that's not easy to do with these first four/five eps. i'm drowning in it.


sally :)

esoap524
August 12th, 2005, 03:04 PM
everyone has a storyline they're not attracted to, or a character they don't care for, but it's easy enough to just watch it and basically get it over with because you have other characters/storylines to pay attention to. that's not easy to do with these first four/five eps. i'm drowning in it.


sally :)


I wonder why the producers decided to go that route. I'm thinking that maybe they're waiting for Sam to return before they can re-assemble the team, which would bring Mitchell to the forefront, along with Sam. Then they may be holding something back with Teal'c and the Jaffa because Louis Gossett Jr plays a big part in that aspect of the story. Is it possible that logistically they were trying to align their guest stars with their available regular cast?

From reading the summaries for upcoming episodes, it looks like Daniel plays a much smaller part. And I read somewhere (TV Guide) that these first 5 are meant to be "transitional" before all the players are back in play.

I think the problem with last week's episode was that lack of a "B" storyline. Usually you have an A story and a B story (or a c, d, e, f story is you're Battlestar Galactica). Anyway! Last week, there was no real B story that I can remember, which really slowed down what should have been a pretty fast paced romp type of episode.

The main thing that's holding me to Vala/Daniel is, for me, the fact that I like both actors immensely, and that overall, I think they're good in the two roles. The problems I've had with the characters haven't been with the way they're portrayed, but with what's been written for them.

But I can certainly see the point about spreading the wealth. There are 15 episodes left for the wealth to be spread around. Sam is back next week, so that ought to assuage a lot of concerns.

esoap524
August 12th, 2005, 03:18 PM
I've said it before; I'll say it again. It actually causes me pain to watch Claudia Black play this character. Where once she embodied a strong, competent female who never needed to manipulate men in the way women have been accused of doing for millennia, she is suddenly an amoral, immature woman-child who flounces her way through people's lives. If she turns into a decent character, it will only be because she's been "saved" by the influence of a "good man," a wicked Jezebel rehabilitated by the virtuous Daniel, a scifi take on the "hooker with a heart of gold" cliche.


Dude, Claudia Black is in actress, not Aeryn Sun! I LOVED Aeryn Sun (gotta laugh at the person who called Vala "Aeryn in pigtails or Aeryn-lite" because Vala has got way more of the Chiana/Rygel vibe going). I'm having a great time watching Claudia Black do something different.

I think she's having a good time doing something different. As a fan, I'd like to see her do something non-genre because I think she's pretty talented.

It's like chiding Gigi Edgley, who played Chiana on Farscape, for portraying a thieving little con artist who used her sexuality as a weapon and to her advantage whenever possible. Hmm. Geez, that character sounds familiar.

Girl has to make a living and unfortunately, there just aren't a lot of Aeryn Suns out there for an actress to play, especially if that actress is trying to fight being typecast. Other than the lovely-in-black-leather, Aeryn and Vala are about as far apart as you can get, character-wise.

I really have to stay off these forums because they're starting to make me crazier.

UhSir
August 12th, 2005, 03:28 PM
whatyathink of Daniel in green and red spandex?


I think Daniel in spandex of any color would be OO-LA-LA!
:o

DarkQuee1
August 12th, 2005, 03:41 PM
Could be mean spirited. But what about it hinting at frustration over the mixed reception to Vala and anxiety about the future of the show. After all, there's nothing they can do about the way Vala was written NOW, and the complaints might get as old as... well... certain Vala fans trying to "prove" that those who aren't taken with Vala are "wrong". I'm sure a LOT of people know exactly how THAT feels.

Six of one, half dozen of the other. I'm not wild about the way Vala was done, but I can empathize with anybody who'd have to field a bunch of cranky fans!


Okay, then say that: "Hey, we can't make her go away and we don't want to hear any more complaints. Let's talk about something else." They handled it in such a way as to make it a Sam/Vala issue, and to not-so-subtly impugn everyone who doesn't like the character by suggesting that it was just pique by Sam fans (who were, by implication, being unfair and unreasonable). Why not ask how many Jack fans don't like Vala, since TPTB seem to be trying to use her to fill the humor part of Jack's character? Or Teal'c fans, since the Daniel/Vala Show has basically turned him into wallpaper? Or the "I like shiny ships and lots of big explosions" fans? Or not go into that aspect of it at all?

col_oatmeal
August 12th, 2005, 03:55 PM
I dislike the character. and it seems few others do. I have not read the entire thread because it is really long but I dislike her and you can ask me if you wish to know why. But I will not post it here.

the dancer of spaz
August 12th, 2005, 11:45 PM
Okay, then say that: "Hey, we can't make her go away and we don't want to hear any more complaints. Let's talk about something else." They handled it in such a way as to make it a Sam/Vala issue, and to not-so-subtly impugn everyone who doesn't like the character by suggesting that it was just pique by Sam fans (who were, by implication, being unfair and unreasonable). Why not ask how many Jack fans don't like Vala, since TPTB seem to be trying to use her to fill the humor part of Jack's character? Or Teal'c fans, since the Daniel/Vala Show has basically turned him into wallpaper? Or the "I like shiny ships and lots of big explosions" fans? Or not go into that aspect of it at all?

Yeah. If this happened the way it sounds, than it was really immature. STILL, I'd like a LINK before we discuss it further, so we all have something to go off of. :P

Pretty please? Anybody? ;) :D

KatG
August 13th, 2005, 06:43 AM
...i have absolutely no doubts that vala wouldn't be that big of a deal to me if i'd had been able to focus on someone(s) else when she was on. but, she and the daniel-vala stuff dominated the first four eps. five, if you count tonights, which i'm sure is just another daniel-vala showcase.

everyone has a storyline they're not attracted to, or a character they don't care for, but it's easy enough to just watch it and basically get it over with because you have other characters/storylines to pay attention to. that's not easy to do with these first four/five eps. i'm drowning in it.


I think the problem with last week's episode was that lack of a "B" storyline. Usually you have an A story and a B story (or a c, d, e, f story is you're Battlestar Galactica). Anyway! Last week, there was no real B story that I can remember, which really slowed down what should have been a pretty fast paced romp type of episode.

I think the two of you hit the nail on the head. That's exactly what was missing, especially in TTTB. No B story. With SG generally we have an A story, but switch to the B every once in a while to break it up. Without the B story it's just a bit overkill.

SunKrux
August 13th, 2005, 11:21 AM
Too bad there isn't a button on the remote to selectively mute a character.

;) Sure there is, it's called the OFF button. LOL

PsychoPenguin
August 13th, 2005, 04:52 PM
Dude, Claudia Black is in actress, not Aeryn Sun! I LOVED Aeryn Sun (gotta laugh at the person who called Vala "Aeryn in pigtails or Aeryn-lite" because Vala has got way more of the Chiana/Rygel vibe going). I'm having a great time watching Claudia Black do something different.



Well, I'll have to admit that I'm not someone who follows actors or actresses around from part to part. I'm more likely to follow a writer than an actor because story has always meant more to me than anything. (And along those lines, what *is* David Kemper doing these days? I seem to have lost him somewhere.)

When I say it causes me pain, it's because it's a very clear sign of how far back female science fiction role models have slid. The past ten years or so used to hold a lot of hope for me. We had strong female characters who tried to advance in life through the use of actual effort and accomplishment rather than wiles and manipulation, characters like "DS9's" Dax and Kira, "B5's" Ivanova, and "Firefly's" Zoe (a *married* warrior woman, How I loved that!). "Farscape's" Aeryn was only one of these and she and Zhaan made it easy for me to excuse Chiana because they were such stellar examples of "better ways to be."

Now what do we have? As much as I love "Atlantis," Weir and Teyla are only now starting to be more than cliche cyphers, and any day now, I fear the return of the "Ice Princess" and the "Amazon." Granted "BSG" has Starbuck, but even she wears a bit of the "You can't be a strong woman unless someone's knocked you around first" albatross around her neck, and her abusive childhood is something she's never dealt with. So she's the "damaged woman" cliche, which puts her a little bit off for me.

Thus, to me, seeing Claudia Black as Vala is just the latest, greatest sign of how far the situation has deteriorated. I don't begrude her taking the part. I realize she needs to work, but it would be nice if she didn't have to work for a set of writers who write women so poorly. It's just another blow to the idea that women can walk their way through life's adversities, as opposed to having to sleep their way through them.

rac76
August 13th, 2005, 07:24 PM
I'm personally pro-Vala and I'm pro-Sam. They both bring something entirely different to the show. From what I've seen from the past couple of shows, is that Vala and Sam are complete Opposite of each other. Vala is more raunchy, sexual, annoying, funny type character. While Sam is the serious, Air-Force, military, science type of character. So the both characters are good, but they are just good in their own ways. That's been really good for the show.

From what I've read, is that the people that don't like the character just find annoying. Well what you find annoying, is what I find funny. So really its the old saying " if one person likes it, doesn't mean everyone will". So maybe there could be a compromise of sorts, just have Vala as a recurring guest star (like Jacob).

I just think Vala brings some needed refreshing. I think at times that this show gets too serious, so its good to have a character that come in and clown around for a while. Life shouldn't be taken that seriously anyway. Everyone should have some that can make them laugh, and I think that's what Vala is doing.

Catharine

TheCorpulent1
August 13th, 2005, 07:48 PM
Strangely enough, "too serious" isn't one of the descriptors that comes to mind when I think about SG-1's recent seasons... ;)

KatG
August 14th, 2005, 05:25 AM
I'm personally pro-Vala and I'm pro-Sam. They both bring something entirely different to the show. From what I've seen from the past couple of shows, is that Vala and Sam are complete Opposite of each other. Vala is more raunchy, sexual, annoying, funny type character. While Sam is the serious, Air-Force, military, science type of character. So the both characters are good, but they are just good in their own ways. That's been really good for the show.

From what I've read, is that the people that don't like the character just find annoying. Well what you find annoying, is what I find funny. So really its the old saying " if one person likes it, doesn't mean everyone will". So maybe there could be a compromise of sorts, just have Vala as a recurring guest star (like Jacob).

I just think Vala brings some needed refreshing. I think at times that this show gets too serious, so its good to have a character that come in and clown around for a while. Life shouldn't be taken that seriously anyway. Everyone should have some that can make them laugh, and I think that's what Vala is doing.

Catharine


I'm all for a light hearted episode now and then, even for Vala as a recurring character, but all Vala, all the time is a bit wearing.

Kalliope
August 14th, 2005, 05:48 AM
Well, I'll have to admit that I'm not someone who follows actors or actresses around from part to part. I'm more likely to follow a writer than an actor because story has always meant more to me than anything. (And along those lines, what *is* David Kemper doing these days? I seem to have lost him somewhere.)

When I say it causes me pain, it's because it's a very clear sign of how far back female science fiction role models have slid. The past ten years or so used to hold a lot of hope for me. We had strong female characters who tried to advance in life through the use of actual effort and accomplishment rather than wiles and manipulation, characters like "DS9's" Dax and Kira, "B5's" Ivanova, and "Firefly's" Zoe (a *married* warrior woman, How I loved that!). "Farscape's" Aeryn was only one of these and she and Zhaan made it easy for me to excuse Chiana because they were such stellar examples of "better ways to be."

Now what do we have? As much as I love "Atlantis," Weir and Teyla are only now starting to be more than cliche cyphers, and any day now, I fear the return of the "Ice Princess" and the "Amazon." Granted "BSG" has Starbuck, but even she wears a bit of the "You can't be a strong woman unless someone's knocked you around first" albatross around her neck, and her abusive childhood is something she's never dealt with. So she's the "damaged woman" cliche, which puts her a little bit off for me.

Thus, to me, seeing Claudia Black as Vala is just the latest, greatest sign of how far the situation has deteriorated. I don't begrude her taking the part. I realize she needs to work, but it would be nice if she didn't have to work for a set of writers who write women so poorly. It's just another blow to the idea that women can walk their way through life's adversities, as opposed to having to sleep their way through them.

If you watched The Powers That Be episode, I'm not sure you'd say that Martin Gero writes women poorly.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 14th, 2005, 07:20 AM
If you watched The Powers That Be episode, I'm not sure you'd say that Martin Gero writes women poorly.

You're right, MG does a good job writing women, judging on the way he's written Wier. I had no complaints with Vala in TPTB... well, not NO complaints, but nothing that MG had any control over, at any rate.

Also, MG may have written the episode, but he had to work within the confines of Vala's character, and TPTB was only the second ep where I found myself not hating Vala.

Alas, I wish I could say liking Vala, but I have come to accept her as a female version of sleazy Kinsey. It was nice to finally see her show some interest in others for the very first time since PU, though.

sueKay
August 30th, 2005, 11:57 AM
Just thought I'd bring this thread back up with regards to some new spoilers I've read.

I don't want Vala in the finale or s10

Skydiver
August 30th, 2005, 12:34 PM
Just thought I'd bring this thread back up with regards to some new spoilers I've read.

I don't want Vala in the finale or s10
neither do i

Vala served a purpose
she filled the estrogen hole left by amanda's baby leave
and vala did do daniel some good. in my opinion, MS sometimes doesn't do drama that well. What i mean is, when he's doing drama, he tries soooo hard that - again to me - it comes off as over acting and chewing of the scenery. but in doing comedy and in acting with CB, he seems to forget that he's acting and simply does his job...and as a result, i personally find daniel more enjoyable when he's doing comedy. he's more relaxed and more watchable - again, before i get daniel fans creaming me, it's just in my interpretation

i did laugh at some of vala's lines, and, more often than not, rolled my eyes at her incessant attempts at humor. I personally found the 'ex host' aspect of her far more enjoyable than the 'sexpot in your face' action we often got to see. in fact, in beach head, as she kept shooting her mouth off i wanted to just find a way to stick some duct tape over her mouth. Humor is good in a drama....jack used it quite well and often, but jack's humor was more mellow and, to me, in step with teh overall situation while vala's was about as subtle as a marching band at a funeral ;)

as lame as i found aspects of Ex Deus' plot last week, i did enjoy the peace and quiet of a vala-less episode. it's like for the first 6 episodes, there was a loud radio outside the window and now that that radio's been turned off, i can finally watch my show in peace

If tptb choose to bring her back, i hope we get more of the vala we saw in TPTB, the angsted ex-host dealing with all the wrongs she's wrought and less of the victoria secrets cover girl

the dancer of spaz
August 30th, 2005, 12:39 PM
Just thought I'd bring this thread back up with regards to some new spoilers I've read.

I don't want Vala in the finale or s10

I don't know... It could turn out to be good. Maybe she found more clothes during her time on that Ori planet? :P She certainly had depth RIGHT before she disappeared. I think she'll have something to contribute to the show's plot.


That, or TPTB/SciFi know a ratings ploy when they see one... :rolleyes:

sueKay
August 30th, 2005, 01:16 PM
Why I don't like Vala

1. She's duplicitous with no sense of honour...she's stab anyone in the back for her own gains.
2. She's not what SG1 is about.
3. She's only there because CB is a popular actress...not because the character has any merit.
4. She's badly written.
5. She's a bad portrayal of a woman.
6. She's too 'in-your-face' and her humour is neither funny nor clever.
7. She only has a rapport with Daniel and has made limited efforts to integrate into the team.
8. She's NOT a character...she's a caracature.

the dancer of spaz
August 30th, 2005, 01:27 PM
deleted



Do you have some kind of Vala-dar or something?

I ask, because every time something BAD is said about her, you find it!

It's about as cool as it is... creepy. :P

Rogue
August 30th, 2005, 01:37 PM
Do you have some kind of Vala-dar or something?

I ask, because every time something BAD is said about her, you find it!

It's about as cool as it is... creepy. :P

Well this is the End Vala Thread, it is not hard to find a post that knocks Vala.

valaCB
August 30th, 2005, 01:42 PM
I agree that the words may be too strong and false if you DISAGREE with them, but I just have one question for you:

Do you have some kind of Vala-dar or something?

I ask, because every time something BAD is said about her, you find it!

It's about as cool as it is... creepy. :P

as Rogue said, its the 'END VAla' thread :rolleyes: and i told Kalliope about this thread . its all my fault, im sorry...

the dancer of spaz
August 30th, 2005, 02:16 PM
as Rogue said, its the 'END VAla' thread :rolleyes: and i told Kalliope about this thread . its all my fault, im sorry...

Personally, I think Uber-Pro Vala fans should be able to post in this thread. They are, aren't they? I don't think you should be sorry. When I see a thread that, shall we say, peaks my interest, I certainly tell other people about it. ;)

Also, I'm basing my statement about Kalliope and her Vala-dar off of other instances, as well. :D

Kalliope
August 30th, 2005, 02:24 PM
Personally, I think Uber-Pro Vala fans should be able to post in this thread. They are, aren't they? I don't think you should be sorry. When I see a thread that, shall we say, peaks my interest, I certainly tell other people about it. ;)

Also, I'm basing my statement about Kalliope and her Vala-dar off of other instances, as well. :D

could you please translate this "-dar" thing into more universal English? I'm not able to find it in the dictionary and my English isn't perfect...