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View Full Version : The Anti-Hero "Eh, he's/she's not THAT great" Thread



skye1974
July 27th, 2005, 12:31 PM
This thread is for all five of us Stargate fans that don't love or even like any one or more of the main heroes of the two shows. Why don't you like him/her? What traits would you change? For the record, this is most definitely not a bashing thread.

For instance, I'm not a big fan of Sheppard. I don't like his arrogance or what I perceive as impulsiveness. I can date this dislike back to "Hot Zone" with his blatant and unapologetic disregard for Weir's orders. He sort of made up for it, though, in "The Seige-II" when he stood behind her against Everett.

kimaken
July 27th, 2005, 04:17 PM
Well...at the risk of having everyone hate me...I'm not a fan of either Rodney McKay or Sam Carter. McKay's rude, arrogant, egotistical attitude is annoying and grates on my nerves. As for Carter, she's become an expert in so many fields and for many seasons "saved the day" every single week (and now McKay does the same thing in SGA) that she's too perfect to be believable.

ShadowMaat
July 27th, 2005, 05:09 PM
I wouldn't say I hate any of the main characters, but there are a number who simply don't do much for me.

Jack of later seasons became (in my opinion) distant, bitter, and a bit of a jerk. He wasn't funny, he wasn't intelligent, and he wasn't fun to watch. If RDA had left after season 5, I might have been upset, but now... I think maybe it was time for him to move on.

Can't comment on Mitchell as I'm too disenfranchised to watch the show anymore.

I don't care one way or the other about Sheppard. He's too cocky, his "I only follow orders when I want to" attitude grates on my nerves and his sense of humor sometimes doesn't sit well with me. It seems too... scripted. He's still an okay character, he does add some good stuff and some of his jokes ARE funny, but I'm still kinda ambiguous about him. Which is a shame, because I LOVED Joe Flanigan on Cupid. :D Dunno what can be done to make him better, I think he's pretty much been stuffed into his niche for good.

Teyla bores me. She's mostly there just taking up space and when she IS given something to do, it tends to be inconsistent and to make her look bad. She came across as very arrogant and rude in LfP and the only time I've found her remotely interesting was that brief bit in The Gift where she was possessed by a Wraith. That's it. An entire season worth of her and that was, for me, her best moment. Rachel needs better scripts and she needs to emote more. In a positive way, rather than the brusque, "I know what's best for everyone, dammit" attitude of LfP.

Merlin7
July 27th, 2005, 05:51 PM
Rodney McKay. Bleh. In scenes with Shep or Zelenka he's fine. I adore McShep as a matter of fact cause of how DH and JOE work together. And the writing for the characters.

I adore how Zelenka can get the ONE UP on Rodney alot. LOL
**edited cause I hit the wrong key**

Rodney grates on my nerves. And he's just very repetitious to me. I don't HATE him, but I don't miss him when he's not on alot. Like in POISONING the WELL.

TEYLA Bugs me cause she's quite the hypocrite. Her words to Shep in HZ about what he did to Weir apparently to count for her when she usurps Shep's command status in LETTERS. She doesn't really serve a purpose. I can enjoy her with Shep when they let them do the friendship thing on the show though.

Seshat
July 27th, 2005, 05:56 PM
I guess that makes me fan #5. :p I'd have to say Rodney. I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED his brief appearances on SG1, but he is the main reason I don't care for Atlantis all that much. (well, there's the boredom, but that's for another thread :rolleyes: ). In small doses he is a wonder! In large doses I get the uncontrollable urge to want to slap him senseless. And not in the good way. ;)

ToasterOnFire
July 27th, 2005, 06:36 PM
Like Shadow, I don't hate any of the characters. Hell, I don't hate anyone in real life either, so there's no reason for me to waste that emotion on a fictional character. That said, there are several characters on Atlantis that don't do that much for me:

-I never got attached to Shep. Maybe it's his attitude, maybe it's his humor, maybe it's that he's too similar to Jack, maybe it's that he's the "hero" and I like non-hero characters better.

-Weir is the person that I should be relating to best on this show, but I'm not and I'm not really sure why that is. I guess I get this feeling like she doesn't do that much, that she stands around while others come up with ideas and implement them (see Siege 3 and the non-flashback parts of Intruder). It's very frustrating and I'd like to see more of her diplomacy, negotiation, translating skills, anything that gets the job done rather than having Rodney or Shep do it.

-I want to like Carson more, but so far we've seen too much worry and hysteria and not enough of the smart, caring doctor that I know is there.

-Likewise, I want to like Teyla more, but the writers don't seem to know where she's going yet.

-Ford never grew on me, but he may now with his new arc.


...wow, that covered just about everybody on the show. That's scary. :S So who does that leave? McKay, who I adore, and wonderful, wonderful Zelenka. The Rodney of season two is starting to worry me a bit though...Gah I never win. :D

kimaken
July 27th, 2005, 06:40 PM
I guess that makes me fan #5. :p I'd have to say Rodney. In small doses he is a wonder! In large doses I get the uncontrollable urge to want to slap him senseless. And not in the good way. ;)

Absolutely! Sometimes Rodney hits the right mark with me--like in his interactions with Beckett. I love Zalenka and his ability to one-up McKay, but large doses of such snarky interaction gets irritating.

And I adore Daniel Jackson, but I dislike when he talks super, super fast (hmm, McKay also does that).

Unfortunately, the characters I do like are mostly in the background, which is my problem since I tend to look beyond the obvious lead characters in any fandom.

ShadowMaat
July 27th, 2005, 07:39 PM
Beckett is too whiney for me. And he does the whole wide-eyed look of utter incomprehension too often. It's all TOO new, TOO weird, and TOO much for me. Cute guy and a sweet character... when he's allowed to be. But if they keep playing up the Trek riffs with him... bleah. Enough is enough. A joke is only funny the FIRST time.

Weir... I dunno. She's really good sometimes and absolutely blah other times. It seems to depend on who's writing her dialogue. I love Torri and Weir has grown on me a bit, but there are times when she's just bloody frustrating. And with all the shippy stuff they're throwing at us now and her interactions with Simon in Intruder... I dunno.

Like ToA, that pretty much leaves me with McKay and Zelenka. ;) Although I'd like to throw Ford and Bates in there, too. Unfortunately, those two are kinda conditional. Ford was given almost nothing to do in season 1, but when he WAS, I loved it. It was like there were whole LEVELS to the character that were there, but we never saw them. As a fan, knowing that there is coolness that isn't being unleashed is very frustrating. :P

And Bates is another victim of bad writing. When someone gets it right, it's awesome, but when they get it wrong ya just wanna beat the louse with a stick. *sigh* Still, I've decided I like both of them (and Weir a bit) despite the inconsistencies and maldevelopments. I'm very interested to see what they do with Ford and I really wish Bates would have some potential as more than a footnote in S2. But this is dislike thread, not a like one. ;)

Daniel doesn't do it for me anymore, either. I know characters have to grow and change and I know that he's been through incredible amounts of stuff, but he seems a lot more disconnected and officious now than ever before. It used to be I thought of him as simply absent-minded. Now I just get a vibe that he has more important things on his mind and YOU aren't one of them. "You" obviously being a generic term for... well, pretty much everything.

Sam just depresses the hell out of me.

skye1974
July 28th, 2005, 05:28 AM
Now that's what I'm talking about. Let it all out, people.

Let me just say that even as a Teyla fan, I cringed when she put that ultimatum on Shep in LfP. I can't even watch that scene anymore.

Also, I hope Sam comes back as Sam, not that other person that's been on my TV for the last two seasons.

kimaken
July 28th, 2005, 06:12 AM
Like Shadow, I don't hate any of the characters. Hell, I don't hate anyone in real life either, so there's no reason for me to waste that emotion on a fictional character. That said, there are several characters on Atlantis that don't do that much for me:
I think that's it--none of the characters are HATE-worthy; they're mostly two-dimensional right now.

-I never got attached to Shep. Maybe it's his attitude, maybe it's his humor, maybe it's that he's too similar to Jack, maybe it's that he's the "hero" and I like non-hero characters better.
Exactly. JF's a wonderful actor and mighty easy on the eyes. But he's a little too much like O'Neill. I don't mind that he's the main hero of the show, but it bugs me that ONLY he and McKay can save the day every week. Any little contributions from other characters are either TOLD to us or shuffled off to the side as unimportant. Guess there's only room for one action hero and one brainy hero. Everyone else is just background, like the scenery.

-Weir is the person that I should be relating to best on this show, but I'm not and I'm not really sure why that is. I guess I get this feeling like she doesn't do that much, that she stands around while others come up with ideas and implement them (see Siege 3 and the non-flashback parts of Intruder). It's very frustrating and I'd like to see more of her diplomacy, negotiation, translating skills, anything that gets the job done rather than having Rodney or Shep do it.
Another character I basically like but don't know what to make of her. I really hope the writers have her going out in the field to SHOW us her diplomatic and negotiating skills. But she's another one whose skills we're TOLD about, ie when she went to work on some translations--we didn't see it, we only heard about it.

-I want to like Carson more, but so far we've seen too much worry and hysteria and not enough of the smart, caring doctor that I know is there.
My personal favorite character but I have to agree with you and Shadow about him being too whiney. Enough already! We got it that he's the everyone sort of guy who's blown away by all this stuff. He needs to show some growth in character and move beyond the whiney hysteria and chronic complaints. I was pleased to see he didn't go all whiney when New!Ford shot at him in Siege 3 and he didn't stand around wringing his hands in Intruder. Maybe there's hope for him yet. I still resent that we SEE McKay and Sheppard (and to a lesser extent, Zalenka) accomplishing stuff, but we're only TOLD what Weir and Beckett have contributed. Why can't we ever see some of these "behind the scenes" accomplishments?

-Likewise, I want to like Teyla more, but the writers don't seem to know where she's going yet. Another nail on the head! Teyla could be a great character but again, we see little depth. She's supposed to be the leader of her people, but she's rarely with them. She's great in battle, but the writers don't seem to know what else to do with her except have her parade around in skimpy outfits and smile a lot.

-Ford never grew on me, but he may now with his new arc. Another pretty boy that the writers never knew what to do with at first. His new status shows a lot of promise so I'm not going to write him off yet.

...wow, that covered just about everybody on the show. That's scary. :S So who does that leave? McKay, who I adore, and wonderful, wonderful Zelenka. The Rodney of season two is starting to worry me a bit though...Gah I never win. :D McKay drives me nuts--I enjoy him in small doses but the fact that HIS BRILLIANCE saves everyone at the last moment every week is driving me away from the show (just like Super!Sam turned me off SG-1 for a few years). I don't want to watch The Rodney McKay Show or even The Adventures of John and Rodney. Zalenka's cool but he's taken over Beckett's role as Rodney's best friend, and his primary purpose seems to be to give McKay another avenue to vent his brilliant snark. This schtick is as old as Beckett's whiney complaints.

Cory Holmes
July 28th, 2005, 06:40 AM
I don't mind that he's the main hero of the show, but it bugs me that ONLY he and McKay can save the day every week. Any little contributions from other characters are either TOLD to us or shuffled off to the side as unimportant. Guess there's only room for one action hero and one brainy hero. Everyone else is just background, like the scenery.
I see it as being slightly different: It's just the John Sheppard Show And Some Other People (tm). The simple fact is that ever since Hot Zone, it's been Sheppard who's always come up with the life-saving thingamabob that saves the day at the end. Sheppard with the gun; Sheppard with the gene; Sheppard with the Jumper; Sheppard with the MENSA test... is anyone else noticing a pattern here?

He's even encroching into areas that should be for the other characters, and that MENSA test bit really annoys me. McKay should've spotted that much faster than he did.

This Sheppard-centricness came even harder in The Intruder when it was he who took out an F-302 to do some delicate and sensitive work. Excuse me, but when did he get the chance to not only learn a totally brand-new aircraft that his gene doesn't respond to, but also get in enough flight time to become so well-versed in it that he can do something like that with surgical presicion and not miss a beat? Didn't the Daedalus have other, more experienced pilots onboard? Oh, wait. Their names weren't Sheppard. My mistake.


McKay drives me nuts--I enjoy him in small doses but the fact that HIS BRILLIANCE saves everyone at the last moment every week is driving me away from the show (just like Super!Sam turned me off SG-1 for a few years). I don't want to watch The Rodney McKay Show or even The Adventures of John and Rodney. Zalenka's cool but he's taken over Beckett's role as Rodney's best friend, and his primary purpose seems to be to give McKay another avenue to vent his brilliant snark. This schtick is as old as Beckett's whiney complaints.

I see it as being a little different. Only on the rare occasions is McKay allowed to be the one to do his job and think of the solution. Lately it's been all Sheppard. In the beginning of the show it was Rodney who came up with the intuitive leap that let the rest of the characters do their thing and save the day. Now it's Sheppard and I don't like that. That makes 90% of the rest of the main characters totally suplurforous and unneeded.

My only complaints about Rodney is that more and more he's simply being used for comic relief and not for anything really substantial. The best McKay episode to date has to be Hide and Seek where he got to be both comic relief AND a major plot player (once he put the whine aside and got on with the job). I want to see more of that and I doubt we'll be seeing it any time soon.

kimaken
July 28th, 2005, 08:31 AM
I see it as being slightly different: It's just the John Sheppard Show And Some Other People (tm). The simple fact is that ever since Hot Zone, it's been Sheppard who's always come up with the life-saving thingamabob that saves the day at the end. Sheppard with the gun; Sheppard with the gene; Sheppard with the Jumper; Sheppard with the MENSA test... is anyone else noticing a pattern here?

He's even encroching into areas that should be for the other characters, and that MENSA test bit really annoys me. McKay should've spotted that much faster than he did.

This Sheppard-centricness came even harder in The Intruder when it was he who took out an F-302 to do some delicate and sensitive work. Excuse me, but when did he get the chance to not only learn a totally brand-new aircraft that his gene doesn't respond to, but also get in enough flight time to become so well-versed in it that he can do something like that with surgical presicion and not miss a beat? Didn't the Daedalus have other, more experienced pilots onboard? Oh, wait. Their names weren't Sheppard. My mistake.
You have a point there. It is a LOT of Sheppard-to-the-rescue in every episode! Seems to me that Rodney is the BRAINS of the outfit and John is the ACTION guy who's also a mathematical genius AND has the best, most potent/effective ATA gene (no one else possessing the rare gene can even come close Sheppard's ability with it).

I'm not that in tune with the types of aircraft so I missed the fact that Sheppard was flying something he wouldn't be familiar with (that wasn't ATA gene-activated), but I think it was established in "Rising" that Sheppard could fly just about anything that was fly-able. Sort of like O'Neill, come to think of it...

I see it as being a little different. Only on the rare occasions is McKay allowed to be the one to do his job and think of the solution. Lately it's been all Sheppard. In the beginning of the show it was Rodney who came up with the intuitive leap that let the rest of the characters do their thing and save the day. Now it's Sheppard and I don't like that. That makes 90% of the rest of the main characters totally suplurforous and unneeded.

My only complaints about Rodney is that more and more he's simply being used for comic relief and not for anything really substantial. The best McKay episode to date has to be Hide and Seek where he got to be both comic relief AND a major plot player (once he put the whine aside and got on with the job). I want to see more of that and I doubt we'll be seeing it any time soon.
And I see Rodney doing it all, or else he AND John accomplish everything as a joint venture. And "everybody" loves it when Rodney whines and complains but hates it when Beckett does.... In "Hot Zone", Rodney suddenly became the medical expert, knowing more than Beckett (obviously Rodney reads ALL files and reports from the SGC while Beckett must not, since he appeared not to know all that much about the nannites or whatever they were...). Sure, John deployed the bomb that saved them all, but Rodney directed him to get it in his lab and THEN John figured out the rest from there. It was all genius Rodney in "Storm" and "The Eye" while John was the action hero of those eps. And Rodney, Grodin, and that other guy worked on that satellite station to help fight off the Wraith (not sure of the details as I was already tiring of the show by then and not paying as much attention), and Rodney thought of the nuclear bombs, which he'd given the plans to the Genii. So, Rodney did a lot, but you're also right that John ended up completing whatever task. I think it's a combination of Rodney's genius plans (that admittedly don't always turn out exactly as he thinks they will) and John's actions that save the day every week. But I agree with you, in the end the rest of the characters are simply superfluous.

Now it appears Rodney is becoming the comic relief, which used to be Beckett's other role besides "best friend and chronic wuss", but I don't think that will last long. He has done a lot of the comedic bits along the way,which were fine because McKay can be a pretty funny guy. However, the writers have a tendency to overdo it, which then makes Rodney (or anyone doing the comic relief of the ep) look like a buffoon. There needs to better balance and more fleshed-out characters of substance to make the show a true team adventure rather than just "John and Rodney Banter Their Way to the Rescue".

NotANumber
July 28th, 2005, 08:43 AM
-I want to like Carson more, but so far we've seen too much worry and hysteria and not enough of the smart, caring doctor that I know is there.
With any luck that will change and he'll start to get used to all of the drama. I thought we were starting to see a new Beckett in Siege Part III when he was quick to suggest harvesting the Wraith enzymes from their corpses to save Ford.

Seshat
July 28th, 2005, 08:44 AM
There needs to better balance and more fleshed-out characters of substance to make the show a true team adventure rather than just "John and Rodney Banter Their Way to the Rescue".
That really describes my feelings about BOTH shows currently. Every time the writers stray too far from emphasizing the team aspect, whether or not the characters are working side by side or pursuing different story arcs during an ep, they seem to flail about and rely on comic relief to patch up the holes in the stories and cover the lack of thoughtfully developed characters. Small doses = very good. Used as a substitute/misdirection for poor writing = bad.

Qasim
July 28th, 2005, 08:46 AM
I think Weir should be more headstrong and actually lead the mission

jckfan55
July 28th, 2005, 08:47 AM
That really describes my feelings about BOTH shows currently. Every time the writers stray too far from emphasizing the team aspect, whether or not the characters are working side by side or pursuing different story arcs during an ep, they seem to flail about and rely on comic relief to patch up the holes in the stories and cover the lack of thoughtfully developed characters. Small doses = very good. Used as a substitute/misdirection for poor writing = bad.
Well said. I don't really dislike any of the characters, but I'm less a fan of the Atlantis gang than the SG1 team.
I know it's heresy for Shep fans, but I wish he would comb his hair once in a while. Maybe he forgot to pack his comb. :D

ShadowMaat
July 28th, 2005, 08:49 AM
I would've liked to have see more of Bates doing better than Sheppard. ;) Show that sometimes all Shep's quips and cocky attitude don't accomplish as much as actually knuckling down to do the job.

NotANumber
July 28th, 2005, 08:53 AM
I know it's heresy for Shep fans, but I wish he would comb his hair once in a while. Maybe he forgot to pack his comb. :D
But if Shep combs his hair, we won't know how much of a rebel he is!!

Lida
July 28th, 2005, 08:57 AM
Well said. I don't really dislike any of the characters, but I'm less a fan of the Atlantis gang than the SG1 team.
I know it's heresy for Shep fans, but I wish he would comb his hair once in a while. Maybe he forgot to pack his comb. :D

First, as so well explained by Joe Flanigan himself, he has cowlicks. He has always had them and even as a boy in school, he was always in trouble for his hair. Blame his genetics. :D

Personally, I don't dislike any of the characters on either SGA or SG-1. I do prefer the "team" aspect of SG-1, and would like to see more diversity on SGA, but since a new charcter is being introduced on Friday, in the episode Runner, perhaps the "feel" of the current SGA "team" will be ungergoing some change.

jckfan55
July 28th, 2005, 09:04 AM
First, as so well explained by Joe Flanigan himself, he has cowlicks. He has always had them and even as a boy in school, he was always in trouble for his hair. Blame his genetics. :D


Ah, so his naturally unruly hair made him a shoo-in to cast for the rebellious pilot type. :)

skye1974
July 28th, 2005, 09:53 AM
I would've liked to have see more of Bates doing better than Sheppard. ;) Show that sometimes all Shep's quips and cocky attitude don't accomplish as much as actually knuckling down to do the job.
Oh yeah! I hate hate hate how Bates' was still made to look like the bad guy in "The Gift" even though he was RIGHT about the Wraith's influence on Teyla. The look Shep gave Bates after he stunned Teyla made me want to smack him (Shep). Face it, Mr. Hero, you were dead wrong. Admit it and apologize!

yasureubetcha
July 28th, 2005, 06:10 PM
While I don't actually hate Sheppard, I was completely turned off by him in LFP. I completely disagree with his decision not to take as many people as he could, since his ship was under cloak and in little danger of discovery by the Wraith. I also don't think that "choosing" to do so when he really had no other choice redeems him in this episode at all. It completely disqualified him as a hero-type in my eyes, and I like 'em heroic; I can't help it.

ShadowMaat
July 28th, 2005, 07:04 PM
Now, see, I kind of agreed with Shep on that case. Maybe a middle ground between his stance and her stance would have been better, but if push came to shove, I'd side with Shep.

And LFP is one of the few times I went from being apathetic about Teyla to outright despising her. If Shep was "wrong" in his decision, she was just as wrong to be so damn pushy and holier-than-thou about her choice. That's how I read her character in that ep, anyway. All that and a whole lot worse.

I'm sure Rachel is a great actress, but in my opinion the character of Teyla is poorly conceived and shoddily executed. Sometimes even great actors can't save a bad character and as far as I'm concerned, Teyla needs a LOT of development before I can even think about liking her.

yasureubetcha
July 28th, 2005, 07:59 PM
In general, I agree with that assessment of Teyla. I think she's a bit useless, and she has horrible lines most of the time, but in the LFP situation (regarding the deaths of people she has known, lead, and still feels some responsibility for) I think her response was natural and justified.

Porthos1013
July 29th, 2005, 04:56 AM
I see it as being slightly different: It's just the John Sheppard Show And Some Other People (tm). The simple fact is that ever since Hot Zone, it's been Sheppard who's always come up with the life-saving thingamabob that saves the day at the end. Sheppard with the gun; Sheppard with the gene; Sheppard with the Jumper; Sheppard with the MENSA test... is anyone else noticing a pattern here?

He's even encroching into areas that should be for the other characters, and that MENSA test bit really annoys me. McKay should've spotted that much faster than he did.

This Sheppard-centricness came even harder in The Intruder when it was he who took out an F-302 to do some delicate and sensitive work. Excuse me, but when did he get the chance to not only learn a totally brand-new aircraft that his gene doesn't respond to, but also get in enough flight time to become so well-versed in it that he can do something like that with surgical presicion and not miss a beat? Didn't the Daedalus have other, more experienced pilots onboard? Oh, wait. Their names weren't Sheppard. My mistake.



I see it as being a little different. Only on the rare occasions is McKay allowed to be the one to do his job and think of the solution. Lately it's been all Sheppard. In the beginning of the show it was Rodney who came up with the intuitive leap that let the rest of the characters do their thing and save the day. Now it's Sheppard and I don't like that. That makes 90% of the rest of the main characters totally suplurforous and unneeded.

My only complaints about Rodney is that more and more he's simply being used for comic relief and not for anything really substantial. The best McKay episode to date has to be Hide and Seek where he got to be both comic relief AND a major plot player (once he put the whine aside and got on with the job). I want to see more of that and I doubt we'll be seeing it any time soon.

Just wanted to say, I totally agree with everything you said! Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'd have to say the character that bugs me the most is Sheppard, and not for the reasons most of you would think. I have a weird sort of take on Shep, because he reminds me so much of Jack. I hate the fact that TPTB had such a lack of creativity that they decided the only character they could come up with for the lead of SGA was a Jack clone, but I LOVED Jack, so it's difficult for me to hate even a semi-reasonable facsimile of Jack. Hence, Shep bugs me, but he has his moments (usually while bantering with Rodney, because that's the only time he seems to shine. Although, I think DH brings out the best in everyone he has scenes with, so that might be just me. :p )

Lida
July 29th, 2005, 05:19 AM
Just wanted to say, I totally agree with everything you said! Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'd have to say the character that bugs me the most is Sheppard, and not for the reasons most of you would think. I have a weird sort of take on Shep, because he reminds me so much of Jack. I hate the fact that TPTB had such a lack of creativity that they decided the only character they could come up with for the lead of SGA was a Jack clone, but I LOVED Jack, so it's difficult for me to hate even a semi-reasonable facsimile of Jack. Hence, Shep bugs me, but he has his moments (usually while bantering with Rodney, because that's the only time he seems to shine. Although, I think DH brings out the best in everyone he has scenes with, so that might be just me. :p )

I guess I'm missing something, because I have NEVER seen Shep as a Jack clone. Even from the first "view" of Shep, where he is flying Jack to the Antarctic site. It is at this point, their diverse tastes, and feelings first appear, and it just continues.

I've always seen Shep as the reluctant hero and the very reluctant leader. He doesn't have Jack's innate leadership ability, he has to work at it, constantly. He also doesn't have Jack's "dark side" or cynicism. Shep tries to look on the "bright" side, even if he knows the bright side is usually a tad dim. Sure, he can throw out one liners, like Jack, but so can just about everyother character, on both shows. Shep also never puts his own intellect down or try to "act" dumb. We all know how smart Jack was, if he hadn't been, he would never have made it in the Air Force, esp. becoming a general. It was endearing, but as much as I loved Jack (and still do), the dumb act did wear a little thin at times.

Jack=Shep, sorry, I just don't see it.

And I also don't view SGA, as the Shep Show.....and after tonight, I think perhaps, many others won't either. The show has needed a new character for quite awhile, one with a totally different personality and background. Hopefully, we'll get him tonight, and the dynamics of the show will change, for the better. ;)

But that's just my opinion, one I would imagine, not widely held. Oh well, variety IS the sice of life! :D

flynn1959
July 29th, 2005, 08:43 AM
I don't really hate any character I do think Sam is the worst of the bunch, she is just so bland.

Dont like Walter either .

skye1974
July 29th, 2005, 09:22 AM
I guess I'm missing something, because I have NEVER seen Shep as a Jack clone. Even from the first "view" of Shep, where he is flying Jack to the Antarctic site. It is at this point, their diverse tastes, and feelings first appear, and it just continues.

I've always seen Shep as the reluctant hero and the very reluctant leader. He doesn't have Jack's innate leadership ability, he has to work at it, constantly. He also doesn't have Jack's "dark side" or cynicism. Shep tries to look on the "bright" side, even if he knows the bright side is usually a tad dim. Sure, he can throw out one liners, like Jack, but so can just about everyother character, on both shows. Shep also never puts his own intellect down or try to "act" dumb. We all know how smart Jack was, if he hadn't been, he would never have made it in the Air Force, esp. becoming a general. It was endearing, but as much as I loved Jack (and still do), the dumb act did wear a little thin at times.

Jack=Shep, sorry, I just don't see it.

And I also don't view SGA, as the Shep Show.....and after tonight, I think perhaps, many others won't either. The show has needed a new character for quite awhile, one with a totally different personality and background. Hopefully, we'll get him tonight, and the dynamics of the show will change, for the better. ;)

But that's just my opinion, one I would imagine, not widely held. Oh well, variety IS the sice of life! :D
As much I appreciate your impassioned defense of Shep (and I don't mean that sarcastically), this thread is for those who don't like characters. From what I can tell, no one here is looking to be convinced otherwise.

Merlin7
July 29th, 2005, 10:43 AM
In general, I agree with that assessment of Teyla. I think she's a bit useless, and she has horrible lines most of the time, but in the LFP situation (regarding the deaths of people she has known, lead, and still feels some responsibility for) I think her response was natural and justified.


The problem with her response was that it was hypocritical to what she accused Shep of doing to WEIR in Hot Zone. AND she seemed to forget all about the people on ATLANTIS/EARTH and her own people on the mainland. They were safe while cloaked but still at risk to not get the info back. I understand and totally sympathize with her desire to save friends. BUT in this instance, there was a whole lot more people at stake. She was wrong in her execution big time.

Lida
July 29th, 2005, 11:43 AM
As much I appreciate your impassioned defense of Shep (and I don't mean that sarcastically), this thread is for those who don't like characters. From what I can tell, no one here is looking to be convinced otherwise.

ACK! I'm sorry. Truly.

Guess I don't dislike any of the characters enough to engage in "character assassination" at this point. Give me a bit more time. Wait, I'm, not overly fond of Kavanaugh, he irritates me. Does that count?

Again, my apologies. :(

Porthos1013
July 29th, 2005, 12:44 PM
ACK! I'm sorry. Truly.

Guess I don't dislike any of the characters enough to engage in "character assassination" at this point. Give me a bit more time. Wait, I'm, not overly fond of Kavanaugh, he irritates me. Does that count?

Again, my apologies. :(
LOL :D Well, actually, if I'm understanding the first post on this thread correctly, I think this thread is more for discussion of what bugs us about main characters on the show. And don't worry, no apologies are necessary. It was mainly my post I think your comments were directed at, and I took no offense. I know I was committing a minor heresy by saying Shep can bug me, and I know a lot of people disagree with me, but that's okay. Everybody has a different opinion of the characters, just like I love Rodney and I know he can really annoy some people. Actually, in all honesty, Rodney has been bugging me this season, because he seems like a totally different character now. I hear a lot of people saying, for example, "So and So" was great until season 6, or whatever, but us Rodney fans only had one season with our favorite! :( Also, I think Dex could be a character that potentially could be really, really bad, but I'm reserving judgement until after tonight's episode. My first impression is that he's going to be a Tyr Anasazi rip-off, (and I was never a big fan of Tyr and his see-through muscle shirts) but I'm hoping Runner will prove me wrong....please? :S

ShadowMaat
July 29th, 2005, 12:56 PM
As much I appreciate your impassioned defense of Shep (and I don't mean that sarcastically), this thread is for those who don't like characters. From what I can tell, no one here is looking to be convinced otherwise.
Exactly. I love McKay to pieces, but a lot here find him unpleasantly obnoxious. I'm not going to defend him, though, because it's a waste of time and it's off topic. I'd prefer not to see this thread be swamped with rabid Shep/Teyla/McKay/whatever fans preaching the virtues of their chosen character. That isn't what this thread is for and there are plenty of other threads where one can talk about the positive aspects of the characters. If the thread does start to get bogged down, though, I say just report it to a mod. They're very good about cleaning up and protecting threads from wildly off topic clutter. :)

Shep... I dunno if I'd call him a Jack clone, exactly, but he definitely has a Jack-like air about him. McKay manages to be cocky and sarcastic without sounding remotely like Jack (or not in my opinion, anyway). If Shep has to have certain traits, there should be a way to manage it so that he doesn't fall into patterns set by a certain other SG team leader. It ain't gonna happen, but it IS theoretically possible. :P

NotANumber
July 29th, 2005, 02:30 PM
Dont like Walter either .
Now that's just crazy talk! :D

knocknashee
July 29th, 2005, 02:52 PM
I have to say, I'm not particularly fond of Teyla. She could be such a good character if she was better conveived. Not going to get into Rachel's acting skills, cos with a bad character, it doesn't matter how good you are, no-one's going to see it. In LFP I totally agreed with John...they were there to gather valuable intel, to protect Atlantis, the Athosians and Earth, possibly this whole galaxy, NOT to rescue yet more people to a city that was about to fall under the siege of the Wraith. To be honest, she seemed a decent character in Rising; it's just a shame they've failed to move her forward in any way...

As to Weir, I wish she would just be leader. I think Intruder was the first real time we saw her assert any authority, and it's a shame it was in such a manipulative way. I think a lot of the time she defers - she'll ask someone else's opinion, so that they make the choices for her. She seems to seek the validation of her descisions from the rest of her senior staff before giving orders, at which point they really cease to be orders. As to a certain scene from The Siege III, I think she was relieved that Sheppard was still alive more because she's accutely aware that without him she wouldn't be able to maintain leadership of the expedition - he's about the only thing that really keeps her there. With him out of the picture, I think it would be significantly easier for someone else in the expedition to overthrow her authority.

Shame, cos I could actually like Weir's character if she was a stronger leading female...

yasureubetcha
July 29th, 2005, 03:25 PM
Even though he's not a hero, one character I felt completely flopped was Anubis. I couldn't make myself be afraid of his superior technology or his supposed invincibility because he failed (on a personal level) to intimidate me at all. I'll admit to feeling dread when we learned we couldn't kill him, but only at the prospect of being forced to watch him for seasons to come.

ShadowMaat
July 29th, 2005, 03:32 PM
Most of the Goa'uld wound up being jokes. Which was VERY disappointing. I like enemies who are as interesting and three dimensional as the heroes (theoretically) are. :)

NotANumber
July 29th, 2005, 03:33 PM
Even though he's not a hero, one character I felt completely flopped was Anubis. I couldn't make myself be afraid of his superior technology or his supposed invincibility because he failed (on a personal level) to intimidate me at all. I'll admit to feeling dread when we learned we couldn't kill him, but only at the prospect of being forced to watch him for seasons to come.
Interesting perspective. The more I thought about Anubis, the more he seemed to be a rip-off of Sokar or the season 4/5 Apophis. It seems TPTB have tried on a few occassions to create an all-powerful Goa'uld character, one more threatening than the last, more difficult to kill, etc. What made Anubis different was that he was tied into the Daniel/Oma/ascension storyline.

ShadowMaat
July 29th, 2005, 03:35 PM
Anubis was a freakin' joke! He was the least scary of all the snakeheads and frankly, I found him even sillier than Zipacna in all his feathered glory. ;)

ToasterOnFire
July 29th, 2005, 06:19 PM
As to Weir, I wish she would just be leader. I think Intruder was the first real time we saw her assert any authority, and it's a shame it was in such a manipulative way. I think a lot of the time she defers - she'll ask someone else's opinion, so that they make the choices for her. She seems to seek the validation of her descisions from the rest of her senior staff before giving orders, at which point they really cease to be orders. As to a certain scene from The Siege III, I think she was relieved that Sheppard was still alive more because she's accutely aware that without him she wouldn't be able to maintain leadership of the expedition - he's about the only thing that really keeps her there. With him out of the picture, I think it would be significantly easier for someone else in the expedition to overthrow her authority.
Wow, never thought of it that way! :eek:


Shame, cos I could actually like Weir's character if she was a stronger leading female...
I feel exactly the same way; I want to really like her yet the characteristics that you listed above just hold me back...

NotANumber
July 29th, 2005, 06:37 PM
Weir did show examples of being a strong leader in The Intruder when she challenged Landry. The unfortunate truth though is that she's never been given the chance so far, unless you count the scene with the Genii in The Siege Part II. Or when she cuts Kavanagh balls off in 38 Minutes. It would have been really good if we got to see a proper reaction to Sheppard ignoring her orders in The Hot Zone, but I don't think TPTB really want to consider any serious kind of Weir/Shep antagonism.

Porthos1013
July 29th, 2005, 08:21 PM
Just kind of a quick aside, a little OT: I would like to see an episode that focuses on Weir and Teyla. Both of them are the only female regulars, both of them are leaders of their people, and both of them are sorely underdeveloped. I think and episode showing how they relate to each other as women and as leaders would go a long way into developing their characters and taking care of a lot of the complaints I (and I'm sure others) have about them.

ToasterOnFire
July 29th, 2005, 08:26 PM
Just kind of a quick aside, a little OT: I would like to see an episode that focuses on Weir and Teyla. Both of them are the only female regulars, both of them are leaders of their people, and both of them are sorely underdeveloped. I think and episode showing how they relate to each other as women and as leaders would go a long way into developing their characters and taking care of a lot of the complaints I (and I'm sure others) have about them.
Oh yes please! TPTB are you watching??

I'd really like to see Elizabeth and Teyla team up and solve the "major problem of the week" like Shep and Rodney do all the time. That would do wonders for my opinion of both characters.

FoolishPleasure
July 30th, 2005, 10:32 PM
Sheppard is my fav character in SGA, but he is also the most infuriating one as well. With O'Neill we had the backstory of the issue with his son, therefore we knew what drove him to behave the way he did. With Sheppard we know very little backstory so we really don't know what drives the guy. He doesn't follow procedures. . .why? Does he have any family? We know one incident where he rescued someone against orders, which has seemed hardly something that would scar you forever or make you disrepect your superiors. We are now into Season 2 and we still know nothing and it is becoming quite irritating. But JF is still the best looking guy around. :D

Teyla. . grrr. LFP killed her for me. I was really trying to like her but she showed such horrid disrespect for Sheppard, and went so far out of her way to endanger her own people and everyone on Atlantis, that I totally dropped her from my radar screen. I've now seen 3 episodes of SGA in Season 2 and she has done nothing but stand around (the few times we've seen her) in her "new" belly-baring tops, doing nothing. Three strikes, you're out. .right? Ooops, wrong sport. ;)

Must mention Anubis. . always hated Anubis. Sokar was much better, and killed off way too soon.

damson30
August 1st, 2005, 06:55 AM
I like this thread I can actually say I dislike a character. Very cool. Anyway there is only one character I can't stand and that's Weir. I hope they continue to give her little to do as they did in The Runner. She shouldn't have a big role. She has the persoanlity of a dishrag and everytime she comes on screen I look forward to when she walks off. She adds very little to the exitement and adventure of the show. She has a role but it should be simmilar to the one General Hammond had. Give the orders and then sit back and watch the real show take place. Just my opinion. But it's nice to see I actually have the right to one.

Willow'sCat
August 9th, 2005, 02:34 AM
Beckett is too whiney for me. And he does the whole wide-eyed look of utter incomprehension too often. It's all TOO new, TOO weird, and TOO much for me. Cute guy and a sweet character... when he's allowed to be. But if they keep playing up the Trek riffs with him... bleah. Enough is enough. A joke is only funny the FIRST time.
You know I get that. I think if Beckett is to be more in the show they will have to get rid of the wide eyed crap. The I am so innocent. Ahhh! :eek: Well I guess he has held a gun a few times but I don't think ever fired. He needs a back bone ASAP! :p


[Weir... I dunno. She's really good sometimes and absolutely blah other times.

I really liked the origanial actor. I want compare that is not on but I will say I have never warmed to her and I usally like female leads I loved Star Trek's Capt Janeway for example. The writers may have to take the blame here, Weir is not likeable enough. Hmm, yes I don't think I like her, WOW. Revelation. :eek:


Daniel doesn't do it for me anymore, either. I know characters have to grow and change and I know that he's been through incredible amounts of stuff

Danny is a love/hate thing with me I love the eager boyish Danny, not the Grunt take on the world and everything else Danny, sure people grow but hell not that much! Not that soon. Haven't seen Season 9 so can't compare him with a new leader and no Jack but I think his best days are over.

Telya (not Rachel) annoyes me she is so bland. It hurts to listen to her sometimes and often I just fast forward past her, aw that's mean but I do!

Ford I kinda like but he needs to grow up a little he is 25-26 that is old enough not to be so bloody stupid.:eek:

McKay OMG where do I start. :eek: Only kidding.:p

dark_faith
January 15th, 2006, 10:48 AM
don't like the SGA team, there is no real interaction between them.

As far as characters are concerned, they could all be way more interesting if the PTB was making an effort, but they're not.

I don't like Sheppard, he's selfish, arrogant, obeys orders only when he feels like it... He's a jerk. But what bothers me the most is that people in his team don't notice! I liked him in the first ep of season 1 when he was all new in the expedition and didn't know anything about the SG.... But as soon as he got to command....

I think every character has a great potential unfortunalty the PTB only writes for Mckay and Sheppard but too much Mckay kills the Mckay, I'm tired of him!

The thing is, we're in a show where they write a story, then integrate the characters to the plot.... whereas we should follow the characters and what happens to them.... IMO

Willow'sCat
January 15th, 2006, 11:49 AM
don't like the SGA team, there is no real interaction between them.Interesting. :cool:

I don't think much of Weir in fact to be honest I can't stand her. :P Maybe if Jessica was still playing her it would be different but I guess we will never know, shame. :(

smushybird
January 15th, 2006, 09:15 PM
Can it be that we're expecting too much?

I posted in another forum that I thought, from a character development and growth standpoint, Atlantis seemed to be moving backward this season, instead of forward. At the very least, it's come to a sort of standstill with stories that don't take advantage of opportunities to drop in a little backstory and incorporate character development from Season One. The stories generally feel like first drafts that weren't mulled over long enough to unearth all the possibilities the plotlines offered. Character responses to several situations felt either generic or repetitive, with no effort to dig beyond the superficial dialogue (as witty as it can sometimes be) to give us more telling tidbits, to let the characters reveal themselves more through their words, let alone their actions. Epiphany was a prime example of an episode that could have intrigued us instead of frustrated us. What an opportunity to drop in some juicy info on Sheppard, to give us even the smallest glimpse of what motivates him and who he is beyond the superficial cocky, breezy pilot exterior --and instead we get a story of time dilation and somewhat cliched ignorant-villagers-learn-lesson story which is okay in and of itself, but felt unfinished.

The response to my post was that I shouldn't expect SGA to be a soap opera.
It's SF so let's not dig too deep, let's keep the stories light and fun and exciting. The problem is, exciting only works if you give a damn about the people involved. And to give a damn you have to know them, know their fears and goals, and so on--and what do we know about these characters? Barely anything. I don't want soap opera melodrama. I just want to know these people well enough to want to hear their stories week after week. And when week after week goes by and I know scarcely more about them than I knew when they first went to Atlantis, I just want to give up watching altogether.

So am I expecting too much? Should I accept that Atlantis is only meant to be shallow entertainment for fourteen-year-old boys?

I am with the poster who said we can't love or hate these characters because we don't know these characters. And I suspect the writers are writing weaker eps this season because they don't know the characters well enough yet, either. I understand character development is an on-going thing. It just hasn't felt like it's going on this season, certainly not as it could be.

Letters from Pegasus was the most popular episode in the Sci-Fi message board's poll because LfP gave us the most characterization than any episode so far aired. They gave us reasons to connect emotionally. Now there seems to be growing discontentment with the show and it seems to come out the lack of further character development.

I could say something negative about every character on the show, even my belovedest Dr. McKay, but it occurs to me that their negative traits are just as important as their positive traits. They wouldn't feel human, otherwise. I don't expect them all to be great. I just expect them all to feel real. The fact that Weir's a weak leader, or Sheppard's too impulsive, or Rodney's too cranky, or Beckett's too wimpy, or Teyla's a hypocrite--I can live with all of that, because I want them to have their frailties and dark corners. Just write 'em real, flesh them out, let their stories be the stories, let the episodes grow out of their relationships with each other, their conflicts, their fears. This show could be that good, if only a little more care were taken with the writing.

Sorry for rambling. I really want to love these characters. They had such a good start. I hate to see potential wasted.

Zadrak
February 4th, 2006, 06:51 AM
I don't HUGELY hate any of them, but:

Sam - doesnt really seem to do much.. shes not funny, shes not endearing.. she's just techno babble.. *why?*

Teyla - doesnt really seem to do much.. shes not funny, shes not endearing.. she's just male eye candy.. *why?*

Lamb - doesnt really seem to do much.. shes not funny, shes not endearing.. she's just there.. *why?*

The guy who's in charge of the SGC who's name is not important enough to remember - well that says it all..

Theres my slice right there :) I've been told the writers are predominantly male, so this might explain why none of the females seem very 3 dimensional. I'm not being sexist either, because I think Vala is great. Big up!

And i'm a fan of male unruly hair... Shep's is fine :p Daniels is always fab, whatever the length ;)

xZx