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GateWorld
July 11th, 2005, 02:39 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/202.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/202.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/201.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none"><B>THE INTRUDER</B></A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 202</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
The Daedalus is infected by a Wraith computer virus, while members of the expedition hope to return to Earth.

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/202.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

sg1 volgman
July 22nd, 2005, 05:17 PM
someone made a topic about him speaking backwards english, not asgard. Did that happen again?

Draugr
July 22nd, 2005, 05:21 PM
Most likely.

MarshAngel
July 22nd, 2005, 05:25 PM
He's pretty hillarious speaking forwards as well.
"Crap indeed".

Excali5033
July 22nd, 2005, 05:27 PM
Ah, McKay vs. Hermiod, the battle begins. I love it.

morph166955
July 22nd, 2005, 05:28 PM
thank god someone else quoted the oh crap line...i burst out laughing when i heard that one. i think hermiod is going to be very funny through out this season (and any future ones).

AGateFan
July 22nd, 2005, 05:30 PM
I like the stare down......and are they supposed to be naked like that?

BaKsHi
July 22nd, 2005, 05:37 PM
I like the stare down......and are they supposed to be naked like that?
That scene was great! Not only does he get McKay uncomfortable, but he gets Sheppard too. I loved when Sheppard said that quote about the Asgard when Hermiod was right standing near him.

sg1 volgman
July 22nd, 2005, 05:45 PM
yeah the 'then crap indeed' is funny.

and i don't think spoilers are necessary in a season 2 forum.

AGateFan
July 22nd, 2005, 05:50 PM
Just trying not to annoy anyone.
That last little fit after the 2nd try was pretty funny. Hermies got a mouth on him.

NakedJehutyV2
July 22nd, 2005, 05:52 PM
hermiod is the funniest asgard ever!!!!!

i know he did the backward speaking thing bout3-5 times. with the last one i seen was after they tried to shutdown the system the second time.

dude who did the mp3 thing,

please do it again

MarshAngel
July 22nd, 2005, 05:52 PM
Another great episode but does it bother anyone else when Shep's beamed from the 302 in a sitting position he arrives on the bridge standing?

Draugr
July 22nd, 2005, 05:53 PM
I can't wait until someone converts his "language" into basic English.

Iguana775
July 22nd, 2005, 05:55 PM
Was i the only one screaming "Shot the 302!!!!" when they beamed Shep out of his 302. now it bit them in the ass.

Iguana775
July 22nd, 2005, 05:56 PM
Another great episode but does it bother anyone else when Shep's beamed from the 302 in a sitting position he arrives on the bridge standing?

Now that you say something...Yea. lol

Iguana775
July 22nd, 2005, 06:00 PM
I think Teyla knew that Weir was a little upset at the end. any else think that?

Calicto
July 22nd, 2005, 06:02 PM
synopsis please. i really cant wait 2 hours.

is it a wraith?

Mio
July 22nd, 2005, 06:03 PM
I don't think she responded to Teyla's question about seeing loved ones (or whatever she said).

Its not that difficult to see that she was holding back something that was bothering her.


In any case...I want to see what Zelenka was talking about at the very endddd!!

JanusAncient
July 22nd, 2005, 06:04 PM
Hermiod is great, hillarious, this is the best Asgard so far, when it comes to humour, "crap," I must have more of this guy.

kharn the betrayer
July 22nd, 2005, 06:05 PM
OMG Hermie RULES!


I never in the world thought an Asgard could be this funny.

I mean his reaction to Mckay after he finds out it was a wraith virus had me on the floor.


Hermie:Crap indeed

me: pfffft XD XD XD


Also his little Evil glare as Sheppard was funny aswell

BaKsHi
July 22nd, 2005, 06:06 PM
This episode had twists and turns in it. Weir lost her love, unfortunately and Sheppard/McKay now have to get along with an Asgard with a 'tude. I love it! Every loss has its benefits though.

tsaxlady
July 22nd, 2005, 06:06 PM
Okay so it's "Entity" with a twist. I still loved the episode. McKay was so funny before they beamed him into the hanger bay. I liked the way they did the flash back to Earth scenes. All in all a good episode - look forward to watching it again later.

Bobthespirit
July 22nd, 2005, 06:08 PM
Definetely a solid episode. I loved the flashbacks and the character development, particularly with Weir. I love how Weir stood up and said 'You don't want to fight me on this one' and basically said 'I get my way. Try to stop me'.

As for the virus and that plot. Maybe the impact of that is lessened because it's a scifi cliche that just happens to coincide with exactly what's happening in Battlestar Galactica at the moment. But it sure as hell beats 'Entity'. I liked the process of trying to destroy it and the process of trying to fight it and being frustrated. Not a great episode, but a solid one.

I loved the Asgard swearing too. And I'm glad that annoying hiccup woman wasn't there.

Sheylafan87
July 22nd, 2005, 06:09 PM
OMG that was kool. John sot the F-302 and i thought something was going to happen when they were getting close to the sun. It was funny when McKay was talking and John shut him up. That wa a great episode and the ending was great.WE get to see Teyla in a nice top and she seemed more happy than normal.I thought she was on the Dadalus but she was on altnaits and when John talked to Ford's cousin and she said that Ford said that John was a great man and other stuff. The look on Johns face was so pricless he really wants to save Ford but theres no sign of him and John was great in the F-302. Overalll the episode was a great one so far canit wait till Runner comes out.

MarshAngel
July 22nd, 2005, 06:10 PM
It was kind of rude, if somewhat understandable, the way Shep and McKay were whispering about Hermiod while standing only a few feet away and staring. As if it isn't bad enough he's spending weeks on a small ship with a bunch of backwards apes. It was pretty funny though.
We've always taken it for granted that the Asgard are just the Asgard and not in need of clothes but it's nice someone noticed he was butt nekked.
It does beg the question though... how does one evolve beyond clothes? or were they always just lacking in modesty?

not so ancient
July 22nd, 2005, 06:10 PM
Rock me, Amadeus! Excellent episode.

V. quick thoughts:

1) Caldwell = Teh Hawt. But I think he should trim his eyebrows. I say this as a person who's had a crush on Mitch Pileggi for 8 years.
2) David Hewlett gets to do the best acting on the show. And you know what? He's very good at it.
3) Simon's a physician? I'm surprised. But not at how things turned out.
4) We are veering perilously close to McShep being canon.
5) I like the interactions we had with Hermiod. I missed Novak.
6) The show had a good look to it and good pace, especially with transitions to flashbacks.
8) Two months? Wow. Wonder what they shopped for on Earth?
9) "Moisturizer!"
10) Teyla and Zelenka in charge when the big 3 were gone? Excellent. Just right.

Is it next Friday yet?

Kiarasayre
July 22nd, 2005, 06:11 PM
Defaintely liked it. There were a few minor plot holes at times, but overall it was incredibly awesome, especially the Ford backstory (even if we still don't know why he lived with his grandparents). Two thumbs up! :D

Major Fischer
July 22nd, 2005, 06:12 PM
In general I liked the episode, the plot twists I expected didn't happen which is always refreshing. I liked the bit of tension between Weir and Caldwell and was rather glad to discover that apparently Weir's job was never in question. I think the Weir/Caldwell/Sheppard dynamic is going to be very interesting. It was nice to see Torri getting to be in the bulk of an action episode (aside from cliffhangers) and not be the damsel in distress.

The only thing I think that didn't work was the cafeteria conversation. It seemed really forced. Aaron Sorkin, when talking about writing cliffhangers between seasons and than speeding up time, that it never works. Next week's episode always feels like next week, not matter what you tell the audience.

ShadowMaat
July 22nd, 2005, 06:12 PM
What an intensely disappointing ep. Good for snark, but not much else. Shades of Entity and Tangent with a bit of BSG thrown in.

The Asgard beaming technology is becoming an intense cop-out. As for why Shep was standing when he arrived... I think this isn't the first time something like this has happened, but it still doesn't make a lot of sense.

A belated explanation of something we were questioning in the last ep and if I wasn't distracted by screaming n00bs running down a dark hall on BSG, maybe I could remember it. Something about Ford, I think. ;)

And while I know the "quiet moment" between Shep and Weir was supposed to be just a quiet moment, I know Joe and his shippy tendencies too well to have that scene sit comfortably with me. VERY convenient that Simon is no longer an obstacle.

Iguana775
July 22nd, 2005, 06:14 PM
OMG Hermie RULES!


I never in the world thought an Asgard could be this funny.

I mean his reaction to Mckay after he finds out it was a wraith virus had me on the floor.


Hermie:Crap indeed

me: pfffft XD XD XD


Also his little Evil glare as Sheppard was funny aswell

Hermiod was freaking awesome!!! I love how he talks under his breath. LOL...


and when Shep was saying...."Does he have to be naked??" LMFAO!!!!

JanusAncient
July 22nd, 2005, 06:22 PM
I loved Hermiod, and Mckay as always, the F-302 fighting was amazing, the flashbacks of the team on Earth, fabulous, especially when Dr. Weir told General Landry, and Colonel Caldwell, that she had the support of the President, and their allies, and that they should promote Sheppard. Here we come to Sheppard, has any other person noticed that he has come up with more ideas, than in the entire first season, he is out-thinking Mckay, the guy is smart, but he isn't that intelligent, and why isn't the Asgard the one with the ideas, he should have thought of these things a hundred times, before they even constructed the idea, that's odd to me.

I too thought that they should have destroyed the F-302, after Sheppard was beamed aboard, because don't the F-302's have hyperdrive technology as well?

SierraGulf1
July 22nd, 2005, 06:24 PM
I found the scene with McKay looking at his friend plead for help as he dies to be very emotional, and even somewhat disturbing. I liked it. It takes great writing and actors to pull of something like that. It seems that in many episodes (The Defiant One, The Siege Part I, The Intruder) McKay helplessly witnesses good men die. David Hewlett's reactions are wonderful.

Hermiod is awesome. "Crap indeed." He and Hewlett steal the show.

It may be copying BSG, Entity, Tangent, and all that, but I loved it. Awesome episode.

Skydiver
July 22nd, 2005, 06:25 PM
i found atlantis a lot more fun and a lot more enjoyable that sg1

great tension, loved liz standing up for shep, loved how it wasn't the quick and easy answer

HERMIE ROCKS!!

a smart ass asgard. wonder if they dropped jack's brain into his or something

but where was novak :(

i miss her

my one quibble....i wish they'd get the time line figured out. it's confusing to watch two shows in the same universe that air back to back being so different in time

Merlin7
July 22nd, 2005, 06:26 PM
And while I know the "quiet moment" between Shep and Weir was supposed to be just a quiet moment, I know Joe and his shippy tendencies too well to have that scene sit comfortably with me. VERY convenient that Simon is no longer an obstacle.


Actually Joe has OUTRIGHT stated his character WILL NOT be shipped with anyone anytime soon if ever. And it's also been Said Weir will be too busy for romance. Too focused on Atlantis. I believe that to be true. I don't believe we'll see any REAL Canon shipping this season for Shep or anyone. Joe likes to tease.

Loved the ep.

LOVED

Sheppard and Weir having coffee. Shep couldn't sleep. He was so damn proud of making Lt. Col. I loved Weir calling him on bringing it up all the time and Shep's "You have to understand. Alot of people thought I'd never make it past Capt." And Weir's "I guess the people who matter knew better" Or how ever she put it. And the way she looked at him and John's look back I waited for him to go "You had something to do with it..didn't you?

Her flashback to her dealing with Landry and Caldwell was fabulous. GO TORRI GO WEIR. I loved it. She blew away their objections about Shep. And Caldwell is a sly *******. He knew that Shep deserves his post but he wanted it if that was all he could get. She blew him away. YES. And he no like it. Heee

Shep seeing Hermiod. "Is he supposed to be naked?" Bwah. Too funny.

Rodney needing to get used to Lt. Col. Shep. Yep..me too.
The only blech moment. The RODNEY/LINDSTROM thing. It sounded stupid after like five times of RODNEY! LINDSTROM! I get that they were freaking but yell something out. I blame that on the writers.

I felt bad for Elizabeth with Simon and confused. In LETTERS she told him to move on, now she's mad he doesn't want to join up?

Caldwell and Shep. Notice how Caldwell kept looking at Shep. Rodney woudl be talking, Caldwell would glance over at Shep. Heee. Interesting. Definite dynamic going on there, will be cool to see how it plays out.

Hermiod snarks at Rodney. I LOVE HERMIOD!


I LOVE JOHN. He comes up with a great idea again. And then he's flying the F302. And he's stuck. His OOOKAY line. His flashback to meeting with Ford's cousin. Her asking if Ford's trust was misplaced? GOD! The look on John's face. Joe rocks. And his not hearing ELizabeth. And really..facing DEATH again. How much can he take? And he was in CIVVIES! And I love that Caldwell is AGAIN seeing the SGA team working together to save each other.

And John's line about shutting down and rebooting "I'm just saying if we're taking a page from teh John Sheppard book of computer repair..we're desperate" BWAH! I loved that. And Joe delivered the line so well.



Weir with Simon just feels off though. She told him to move on now she comes home and acts like hew as going to just come back with her? Weird. I felt sorry for her though. Simon is UGLY tough. ICK!

MCSHEP! It was lovely. LOVELY! I loved it. Muchly. Joe and DH are just so cool together. Rodney hunching down to be transported. Bwah. And Shep in and out of the 302 and sliding down the ladder. SQUEEE
And he remembered the left 302. I forgot about it. And what a cool shot, it following them. So more SQUEEEEEEEEEEe
Cause Rodney and Shep are gonna save the day together. SQUEEEE



The flying sequence was fantastic. iT's the one Martin Gero was gushing about. It rocked. The McShep was funny. I loved even Hermiod acknowledging what a good pilot Shep is. Heeee
And Shep's "Want to try the stick?" And "No" Funny. And his "SORRY" to Weir at scaring her was like a reversal of SIEGE 3. I loved this ep. So much McShep.

And I loved Rodney with Beckett and peeling nose. And Shep's asking about FORD and his "Ladies" And the end with Weir was perfect and ZLINKY was there. SQUEEEE
I LOVE THIS SHOW

As a Shep/Joe fan it's great that he's finally getting some great lines and the chance to show off how great an actor he is. Yay.

So far season 2 rocks. I've enjoyed both eps as a whole, which oft times I didn't in season one. And I get a great Shep/Joe fix.

ShadowMaat
July 22nd, 2005, 06:36 PM
Hermiod played free and loose with his "Indeeds." I'd be inclined to think he spent too much time with Teal'c rather than Jack. ;)

I like Hermy. Loved McKay (natch). The bit with Shep being all weirded out by "the alien" was kinda funny, especially since it's hardly the first alien he's seen.

And yes, the timeline is a huge issue. And it will continue as long as both shows are on the air.

Ragnarok13
July 22nd, 2005, 06:37 PM
hermiod is the funniest asgard ever!!!!!

i know he did the backward speaking thing bout3-5 times. with the last one i seen was after they tried to shutdown the system the second time.

dude who did the mp3 thing,

please do it again
the dude who did that was "okrichie". to see the original thread just go to the similar threads and his/hers(idk) is at the top

NakedJehutyV2
July 22nd, 2005, 06:54 PM
whatever please do it for us again! i can imagine he's telling them all off in the long rant lol

MarshAngel
July 22nd, 2005, 06:56 PM
Well there's no dignified substitute for indeed.

But actually, Hermiod is the first alien looking alien who is an ally with whom Shephard has interacted.

okrichie
July 22nd, 2005, 07:06 PM
I haven't seen the episode yet. I'm from england *sneaky eyes* :/

okrichie
July 22nd, 2005, 07:08 PM
I will gladly create the post as soon as I can tomorrow, but that's as soon as I can make it, sorry :(. So someone may beat me to it, though I would like to be the one to do it :P

Maybe sooner rather than later.. all depends..

Jeff O'Connor
July 22nd, 2005, 07:08 PM
Brilliant episode on most counts in my opinion. Yes, it was a rehash but Atlantis is bound to have some -- most shows are bound to have them, eventually. It's only so absolutely, blatantly obvious because it's the sister show of a long-running powerhouse -- so I was actually rather relieved when the writers up and had Rodney get an epiphany based on an episode with similar circumstances, 'Entity'. Instead've trying to dodge and jolt around, trying to make us think the concept was a new one.

All in all, great, I'd say. In fact, I'd say more if I weren't making quick runs, then heading to sleep for the night. Yes, though, I sign with the 'Hermiod Rocks' group, so to speak. Wonderful, awesome. Even Thor... I'm sorry, but... I... no, I won't say it. Not yet. Not yet! Egads!

At any rate, can't wait till next week. Ronan Dex, Ford making an appearance and whatnot. I'll likely post in this thread a better explanation of my feelings for this episode between now and then, though.

Arative
July 22nd, 2005, 07:12 PM
I really enjoyed this episode, found myself laughing my butt off a few times. I can say that I was entertained by it, which is what I expect from a tv show I watch.
Hermiod is actually the first Asgard I really like because he seems to have a bit of personality, swearing under his breath, shows some emotion. Gotta love that crap line, I was cracking up.

Minor Spoiler for SG-1 below






The time line between shows I think is about 3 weeks apart or so. I think they said 18 days from Atlantis to Earth or maybe they had been in hyperspace for 18 days and they were two days from Atlantis. So lets say 20 days one way. Lets assume that they left Atlantis 4 days after the end of Siege 3, enough time to repair the Daedalus. They were a month on Earth and then 20 days back to Atlantis. So thats a total of 85 days, using a 31 day month. Now Avalon part 1, several months had passed since the end of season 8 and the Daedalus left during Avalon part 1, so at the most, SGA and SG1 are about 20 days apart. Thats assuming a couple of weeks didn't pass during Avalon part 2. Or I could be way off and I just wasted a perfectly good paragraph!!!

MasySyma
July 22nd, 2005, 07:17 PM
It was a good episode. Hermie and the clips tranformed it from an ok episode into a good one that I would not mind watching again.

Yes, Weir set Simon free in Letters from Pegasus, but his being in the pool to go to Atlantis did make it look like he was interested. He should have said that he was with someone new the first time she tried to get him to sign on. We all knew this had to happen, but I was still sorry to see Weir hurt.

Admittedly, I found Sheppard's "Oh my; it's an alien" behavior a bit annoying, but overall, I enjoyed his and McKay's antics.

I'm looking forward to next week.

Elizabeth Bartlett
July 22nd, 2005, 07:21 PM
Did anyone else notice that the actor who was Narim on SG-1 was also Dr. Weir's husband?

It was a good episode. I loved McKay's reaction when they were inside one of the F-302's. He sounded like he's a little claustrophobic. Also the comment about him having fair skin was funny. I think that Carson was getting annoyed at McKay towards the end with all his complaining about his skin condition. (Who could blame him?)

Oh, and Novak was in the episode. She was in the Engine Room (I think) before they did the first shut down of the all the systems on the ship.

TechnoBoY
July 22nd, 2005, 07:23 PM
I actually liked SG1 episode more this week. Hm.... bad sign!

It wasnt a bad episode though, decent, but not as good as last week! Next week looks kick arse though!

Excali5033
July 22nd, 2005, 07:24 PM
I really enjoyed this episode, found myself laughing my butt off a few times. I can say that I was entertained by it, which is what I expect from a tv show I watch.
Hermiod is actually the first Asgard I really like because he seems to have a bit of personality, swearing under his breath, shows some emotion. Gotta love that crap line, I was cracking up.

Minor Spoiler for SG-1 below






The time line between shows I think is about 3 weeks apart or so. I think they said 18 days from Atlantis to Earth or maybe they had been in hyperspace for 18 days and they were two days from Atlantis. So lets say 20 days one way. Lets assume that they left Atlantis 4 days after the end of Siege 3, enough time to repair the Daedalus. They were a month on Earth and then 20 days back to Atlantis. So thats a total of 85 days, using a 31 day month. Now Avalon part 1, several months had passed since the end of season 8 and the Daedalus left during Avalon part 1, so at the most, SGA and SG1 are about 20 days apart. Thats assuming a couple of weeks didn't pass during Avalon part 2. Or I could be way off and I just wasted a perfectly good paragraph!!!


Hm ok. I thought Daniel's complaining about the Daedalus leaving was its first trip out, to save Atlantis' collective asses. Him missing the return trip makes much more sense.

Major Fischer
July 22nd, 2005, 07:31 PM
Did anyone else notice that the actor who was Narim on SG-1 was also Dr. Weir's husband?


Just. Cries.

Arative
July 22nd, 2005, 07:34 PM
Hm ok. I thought Daniel's complaining about the Daedalus leaving was its first trip out, to save Atlantis' collective asses. Him missing the return trip makes much more sense.

It could have been but I assumed that they wouldn't have sent Daniel to fight the Wraith because what could he have added? And would they have waited for him to pack before leaving for Atlantis? I figured they'd load the Daedalus with weapons and miltary personnel and set off straight to Atlantis, since they had a limited amount of time to save thier asses. I got the feeling from watching SG-1 that it was a several months had passed after Seige 3.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I'd love to see Garwin Sanford become a semi-regular on Atlantis just because I like his acting. Maybe not show up this season but show up next season with his new lady in Atlantis, even though I'm not that into 'ship, it would humanize Wier more to see how she dealt with it. But more than likely, we'll never see Simon again.

ShadowMaat
July 22nd, 2005, 07:57 PM
Did anyone else notice that the actor who was Narim on SG-1 was also Dr. Weir's husband?
*headdesk* Why, no, us thousands of slavering Stargate fans managed to completely fail to notice something so blatantly obvious! ;)

The ep had some good elements, but there wasn't a heckuva lot new or different about this ep. Other than the specific setting and characters, this isn't anything we haven't seen before.

NightGloom
July 22nd, 2005, 08:03 PM
Good episode, kind of repetitive though with the whole "We got rid of the wraith virus... Oops, no we didn't"

+Hermy and McKay interaction I absolutely loved! I hope he's in a lot more episodes.
"How perceptive of you"
" Crap, indeed"
Looks like he's been around at least Jack and Teal'c too long :)

+Daedalus, YAY!

+ "This is what I do with my laptop... turn it off and turn it back on again"- somehow that sounds familiar... ;)

+The Earth flashbacks just completely made the episode, it wouldn't have been that good without them. Although I did get too much Weir/ Simon though... why did they feel the need to fully get him out of the picture? Hmmm... The Sheppard and Ford's cousin scene was really heartbreaking.

+ Loved McKay in the episode

- I would have liked the opening scene with Shep/Weir, but thanks to the infamous hug, I am now tainted with the possibilty of a Shep/Weir ship.
+ I did like Sheppard being so proud of being promoted

- Simon's hair- was he trying to mach Weir's hair, but failed horribly?

- As I mentioned above, it was a bit repetitive.

puddlejumper747
July 22nd, 2005, 08:06 PM
THAT WAS AN AWESOME EPISODE!!! :cool: Quite possibly my favorite Stargate Atlantis episode so far.
Daedalus. Wraith Virus. McKay. Hermiod talking to himself in an alien language....Absolutely Hilarious!!! :D
And I like the fact that they actually ADMITTED that this was a similar situation to the SG-1 episode Entity. :)
It didn't necessarily bother me that Sheppard beamed onto the bridge in a standing position, but I definitely noticed. Chalk it up to Asgard technology being "smart" enough to change his position for him....whatever. :rolleyes:
SierraGulf1: "It may be copying BSG, Entity, Tangent, and all that, but I loved it. Awesome episode." http://www.emuasylum.com/forums/images/styles/default/smilies/thumb.gif

Lt. Elliot
July 22nd, 2005, 08:14 PM
I was impressed with Intruder as I thought is was Entity Gone Wild: Wraith Style. They managed to separate it very well, even with the mention to the SG-1 episode.
First off, Hermiod. He and McKay banter, "Crap indeed", and he and Sheppard. The Asgard has been written to be a season favorite to me!
The flashbacks to Doctor Weir and the briefing and Earth and Simon...unsettling, but I liked it.
I feel the ending was rushed, but rushed well. I love them in the F-302, especially Rodney.
Caldwell/Weir...should be interesting, they seem to clash on many ideas.
MANY MANY MANY amazing shots of the Deadalus and I love the PG Hypersapce.
I love that they kinda evolved Weir's character more and the Simon thing was a good twist. I had no idea they were gonna use him as a candidate for Atlantis.
HOWEVER, the month that had passed did not seem so explained. I would like to have learned more about damage assessment and the like. I was rather mad they did not explain the "interesting finds" the ZPM had enabled. Next week I hope.
8/10. Less dark compared to what the season is looking like, with good scenes and humor. Flashbacks used perfectly!

kharn the betrayer
July 22nd, 2005, 08:19 PM
Like I said in the episode thread.

Hermie OWNS!


When he had a stare down with Shep, I could immagine the borders thinning down to just their eyes then they do some cheesy OTT martial arts moves.


But I'm just sad and have an overactive immagination.

not so ancient
July 22nd, 2005, 08:24 PM
The time line between shows I think is about 3 weeks apart or so. I think they said 18 days from Atlantis to Earth or maybe they had been in hyperspace for 18 days and they were two days from Atlantis. So lets say 20 days one way. Lets assume that they left Atlantis 4 days after the end of Siege 3, enough time to repair the Daedalus. They were a month on Earth and then 20 days back to Atlantis. So thats a total of 85 days, using a 31 day month. Now Avalon part 1, several months had passed since the end of season 8 and the Daedalus left during Avalon part 1, so at the most, SGA and SG1 are about 20 days apart. Thats assuming a couple of weeks didn't pass during Avalon part 2. Or I could be way off and I just wasted a perfectly good paragraph!!!

I think your reckoning must be just about right, but, to be honest, I'm just not that concerned about reconciling the timeline between the two shows, or exactly how much time passed between one episode and another.

There's nothing about it that has jolted me out of the story yet. I was suprised that it had been 2 months, but I immediately absorbed it and went on.

FoolishPleasure
July 22nd, 2005, 08:31 PM
;) I LOVE HERMIE. . .Someone make him a reg! ;)

Everyone was very good in this episode. McKay had to watch a friend die (he DOES have a heart. .I know it is in there somewhere). Poor Shep has been forgiven for the Sumner incident, but now he has Ford eating at his conscience. Guy just can't get a break. Caldwell is a hardhead. .and jealous of job assignments as well. This could get interesting. :D

And Weir. . .Torri just gets better and better - I really enjoy this character now. Some folks have had complaints about her telling Simon to move on in LFP, but being upset at his leaving her this episode. As one who has been through almost the same type of relationship, you know what you need to do, but when the time comes, it still hurts. That final, face-to-face "let go" is the hardest step to take. There have been a lot of arguments in the forum about whether or not TPTB can write women well. In this case they did an excellent job.

My one BIG complaint - in SG1, every time someone got a promotion, a big deal was made of it, but we only hear Sheppard has been promoted in a very brief moment. Then, when Shep is visiting Ford's family, he is still is not in uniform. We are now in season 2, but have never seen Shep in "Dress." Does the Wardrobe Dept. not have an Air Force uniform that fits Flanigan?

One more thing. .in one of the 302's. .did I see a rubber ducky?? ;)

PsychoPenguin
July 22nd, 2005, 08:32 PM
Not as action-packed as last week, but still a very enjoyable episode as far as I was concerned. I did have two minor picking points. One: the conversation between Shep and Weir at the beginning made me go, "They were on Earth? Aw, I wanted to *see* that!" And two: when I saw who all was with them, I was going, "Who the heck is watching Atlantis?!" Happily, point one was soon resolved with the flashbacks (Good move, writers!) and hubby solved point two by saying "Czech guy's in charge" and sure enough he was (Nice job, Hubby!) :)

I also had a moment of disquiet when I realized what plot was based around, an idea we've seen in sci-fi before, and that was largely because from what I've seen in the past, "Stargate" writers don't do well when they retread ideas. However, this time they actually managed to realize the concept behind T.S. Eliot's quote, "Good poets borrow. Great poets steal." by revitalizing the plot through their execution and usage of "Atlantis'" characters. The dark, horror element I like about "Atlantis" was back, especially in the scene where Lindstrom gets sucked out the air lock, and the dynamics between Sheppard and McKay were as fun to watch as ever. Also, Weir is starting to come alive for me, after being a cypher for so much of the first season, and both Caldwell and Hermiod proved to be welcome additions/wrinkles. Nicely done!

My absolute favorite part of this episode though was how once again there was a good balance between forward-moving plot and developing character moments. The flashback where Shep visits Ford's cousin was probably my favorite character bit. I love that the writers haven't neglected the emotional implications of what happened to Ford. I hope they manage to keep that up in the future.

All in all, a good ep with a nice twist on an old plot with some lovely character moments and some excellent horror. Also, some great lines, (Hermy's dialogue, Shep's line about being uncomfortable with taking a page out of the John Sheppard book on computer repair) and some funny expressions (McKay waiting for transport). The only thing I'm not comfortable with is the idea that the writers might be trying to force some ship on us. I felt they were a little obvious this ep (As my hubby said when Simon spoke to Weir, "Don't worry, Liz. You'll be banging Sheppard before the season's over." God, if my hubby sees it... ;) ) and if they're going to do ship, I really prefer them to be subtle. But who knows? I liked John/Aeryn in "Farscape" and Odo/Kira in "Deep Space Nine." Maybe ship will work well here as well. I hope! :)

Ship aside, I was very happy that the reason Shep got promoted was that Weir went to bat for him. When they had that conversation at the front, both hubby and I had a problem with how quickly he got promoted, even if they'd been back on Earth for a month. (Air Force officers get promoted by boards that have to convene and deliberate for weeks; then don't announce their results for months). Seeing the flashback with Weir, Landry and Caldwell solved that though. Must be nice to have someone with the President's ear batting for you. Makes me wish it worked that way in real life. It would certainly make our lives easier. :)

TheCorpulent1
July 22nd, 2005, 08:38 PM
Wow, great episode. Things I liked:

- Hermiod out-McKaying McKay! "It's a virus!" "How perceptive of you."
- Sheppard loving his new rank so much.
- The resynchronization of SG-1 and SGA. Hopefully people's heads will stop exploding now. ;)
- Just 18 days to cross galaxies even without a ZPM? Nice job, Daedalus. :)
- The F302 dogfight.
- More insight into Dr. Weir. I'm actually starting to care about her.
- The graphic horror of Linstrom getting sucked into space. Way to drive home the dire straits the virus put the crew in.
- I liked that Teyla was left in charge of Atlantis. With Weir and Shep gone, she's the logical choice, and it's good to see that she's not "the alien liason" anymore, she's being recognized more as the natural leader she was introduced as.
- Sheppard informing Ford's cousin about his absence. I like that although Rainbow isn't a regular, Ford is still actively being kept alive in the series, as he would be if the Atlantis expedition lost one of their members in such a tragic way. You really get the sense that as soon as Shep's foot touches back down in the Pegasus galaxy, finding Ford will be his sole mission in life.

Things I didn't like:

- Hmm... no, not really coming up with anything. It was wrapped up a bit too conveniently, but even that wasn't really bad. The flashbacks broke the flow a bit, but not to a horrible extent, and they were a great B-plot. All in all, a very good show.

AGateFan
July 22nd, 2005, 08:43 PM
;)One more thing. .in one of the 302's. .did I see a rubber ducky?? ;)

Not sure it was rubber and it could have been a chick or a ducky but it was definitly a little toy of some kind. Nice little detail.

Herme rules. I liked his fit after the 2nd reboot failed.
Landry was an azclown, glad he isnt that bad on SG-1.
Glad we wont here about Simon again, but wheres Wiers Dog?
I feel bad for Fords family but his cousin was giving up on him uncharacteristically soon, most familys of MIAs that I have experience with hold out hope long, long after it is truely gone.
Weir did good nice strong leader sticking up for her guys
Mckay always does good (I like how he said Air..person when talking to the tech in the engineering room).
Sheppard was good (and rebooting always does work).
Caldwell was good (he does his job).
Carson was good (he was just there but he was good at just being there)

I was not a big fan of Entity but I really liked this ep. B+

I still want to know the stinking timeline though!!!!

TheCorpulent1
July 22nd, 2005, 08:51 PM
Everything's synched again. SGA was a month behind SG-1 but they've since caught back up to each other since Sheppard's apparently been a Lt. Col. for a month now.

Oh, I thought of something else I didn't like: Why the hell can't Sheppard figure out that he's supposed to answer when people call him the first time? Weir and Caldwell both had to snap him out of his stupor in the 302s by calling his name 3 times.

ShadowMaat
July 22nd, 2005, 08:55 PM
Staring sunward in space without massive polarization is a good way to fry your eyeballs and go blind. My understanding of the subject is admittedly wavery and I know allowances have to be made so that we can see the actors doing their thing, but it still seemed pretty dodgy.

Ford: Do we know anything about Ford's parents? If they have a military link it could be why the cousin was so quick to give up. Whatever the reason, there seemed to be a little more to it than just, "He's probably dead, so just say so." I read it as an accusatory kind of attitude, the kind one gets from experience.

LOVED Zelenka at the end. But I always love Zelenka. :D His hopeless puppydog crush on Weir is adorable to watch. In the rare moments when there IS some of it to watch.

not so ancient
July 22nd, 2005, 08:55 PM
*headdesk* Why, no, us thousands of slavering Stargate fans managed to completely fail to notice something so blatantly obvious! ;)


I wonder how you would feel if the remark you made were aimed at you?

I guess you've forgotten what it's like to join a new fandom or a new forum. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Maybe you could let a prim'tah's mistake slide by you without beating them up about it. Just shrug and remember that we all made n00b mistakes, and when we're not n00bs anymore, we show tolerance because we once were tolerated.

derrickh
July 22nd, 2005, 09:04 PM
To understand Simon, put yourself in his shoes.His supersmart kinda hot girlfriend leaves him to go on a trip that she can't tell him about. Then she sends him a message saying, 'Get on with your life'. He sees this and says WTF? "I've been waiting for months and then I get a Dear John letter?" Simon may not be the best looking guy, but he's a big time doctor, which gives him a few extra points on the eligibility scale. Getting dumped is probably new to him.

So what does Simon do? He goes and finds another hottie. And this time he finds a woman that is unlikely to go off on year long secret expedition, maybe she's a fitness instructor, or a model, or an exotic dancer. Take your pick. But what she lacks in smarts she more than makes up for in other areas. Lola (we'll call her Lola) is all over Simon.

Now, all of a sudden, his Ex-GF Dr. Weir comes back into town. She makes a beeline to Simon's house and you just know that they didn't spend the first night together snuggled in front of NickatNight reruns. There was lost time to be made up for. And since Simon is a guy, he put off telling Weir about his new hottie. He could always tell her later.

But then Weir gets all wierd on him. She signs him up to go back with her. She moves his name to the top of the list and even 'suggests' him to the head doctor guy. She has this whole thing planned out. Simon though, is freaked out. He's all like 'Look, last night was great and I missed you too, but there's something I gotta tell you...' And before he can tell Weir about Lola, his new dancer/model/hottie girlfriend, she starts telling him about Galaxies and aliens and stargate this and atlantis that.

So now Simon has a big decision to make. He can go off to another galaxy with his ex-GF who seems to have a hidden controlling streak in her. Or he can stay with Lola. Now for this part, you have to give Lola a lot of credit. She has got to be -incredibly- gifted for a guy to turn down space travel for. And when I say gifted, I aint talking about wrapping presents.

So Simon redumps the woman who dumped him so he can stay on earth with his hot stripper girlfriend. Makes perfect sense to me.

TheCorpulent1
July 22nd, 2005, 09:05 PM
^ My, what an elaborate fantasy you've conceived. :D

Staring sunward in space without massive polarization is a good way to fry your eyeballs and go blind. My understanding of the subject is admittedly wavery and I know allowances have to be made so that we can see the actors doing their thing, but it still seemed pretty dodgy.
I thought about that myself, but I figured there was just some magically super-advanced technology that allowed the F302's windows to filter out enough UV that it wouldn't be harmful. Funny that McKay still managed to get a sunburn out of it anyway, though. ;)

Ford: Do we know anything about Ford's parents? If they have a military link it could be why the cousin was so quick to give up. Whatever the reason, there seemed to be a little more to it than just, "He's probably dead, so just say so." I read it as an accusatory kind of attitude, the kind one gets from experience.
Could be. It's established that he lives with and/or was raised by his grandparents, since his message home in "Letters to Pegasus" was all directed at them. His parents' having died in the military would be a good explanation for that and an interesting addition to the character, in my opinion.

Shipperahoy
July 22nd, 2005, 09:07 PM
I wasn't particularly looking forward to this episode going from the previews because I figured that the computer virus angle has been played...and played..and played just about to death but I was pleasantly surprised. It was pretty much a filler episode but I enjoyed the humor and it gave us a chance to get to know Caldwell's character a bit better.

Hermiod was a hoot. "Crap indeed.". LOL. I just wish that they would provide us subtitles when s/he mumbles under his/her breath in Asgard. I'd just love to know the translation. It seems to me that the recurring plot of the week is Sheppard in mortal peril...again. It's going to become a running theme I think, sort of like the Wizard of Oz references on SG-1. The interaction with Shep and McKay is witty as always. I love those two. They're the Odd Couple of Atlantis.

I still can't get used to the shortened themes on this or SG-1 and I really hope that TPTB at Sci-Fi pull their heads out of their collective bums soon and realize what a travesty it is.

Sela
July 22nd, 2005, 09:09 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. Boy, those wraiths are smarter than we thought they were. With one encounter with the Daedelas, they designed a virus and a delivery method that crippled and damn near killed the ship.

I love Hermi cussing under his breath. I loved the whole dynamic between Hermiod and Rodney. It's like they're competing to see who's the smartest as if it's not a given with Hermiod being an Asgard. John being weirded out by having an alien on board was hilarious! The look he kept giving Hermi and the way Hermi narrowed his eyes at him had me rolling! I loved it! It was a good story although I kept hearing the phrase, "What are you doing, Hal?" in the back of my mind. :) Good scene with Rodney and Lindstrom.

What I didn't care for was the whole Simon thing. I didn't like seeing her so desperate. It really bothered me that Weir was using her position to try and bring her boyfriend with her. How fair was that to the others who had not only left others behind but couldn't even tell them where and why they were gone, like Weir was able to do with Simon. I have to admit I'm a little queasy about the break-up with Simon and the subsequent late night coffee with John. I really don't want to see Weir/Shep. Really. Not.

I also couldn't believe how pushy Weir was in the meeting. Honestly, I always thought there should be a military commander to the Atlantis project until the city was secured. While I like the idea of a woman being in command, it could have just as easily been a female military commander. It disappointed me that everyone gave up so easily. I think if Hammond had been in that meeting, he might have reminded Weir that he also had a red phone on his desk.

Overall, I liked it. I give it an 8. It had a good beat and you can dance to it. :)

not so ancient
July 22nd, 2005, 09:18 PM
I knew I forgot something.

Rodney covering up ...ahem... The Family Jewels when being beamed?

That totally cracked me up.

David Hewlett does all kinds of great things for Rodney McKay. So do the writers and directors. That's some great synchronicity.

FoolishPleasure
July 22nd, 2005, 09:26 PM
I really don't want to see Weir/Shep. Really. Not.
It seems TPTB are determined to provide "ship" in SGA (latest con mentioned lots of romance on SGA this year. :S ). If they are going to "force" anything on us, I'd rather see Weir/Shep. . than the alternative. But I'm hoping things stay fairly quiet on the romo front.


I wasn't particularly looking forward to this episode going from the previews because I figured that the computer virus angle has been played...and played..and played just about to death but I was pleasantly surprised.

Yep - I thought it was "Entity Redux" - but they did it better, and I liked the references to "Entity" by McKay. Nice touch.


Not sure it was rubber and it could have been a chick or a ducky but it was definitly a little toy of some kind. Nice little detail.
Good heavens. .Droops has infiltrated TPTB with his chicken fetish! :p

BackStageJim
July 22nd, 2005, 09:27 PM
Interesting bottle show. Like Hermy ... something very O'Neill-ish about him. And SG never said all Asgards are the same, just the same body style. So somewhere ther would be 'tude about the humans. As for Hermy weapons issues, nice go around the writers used. "Well is arsh is also on the line"

Mitch, good intro. But never wear glasses ... to close to X-Files.
Ford ... been nice, come back soon.
Novak .. great character, need to see more of her.
Shepard puns ... need to see less of them. Looking at S1-8, now S9(BB), it's just too much even for my pun-ish humor.

And the guy sucked, er, pulled out into space. He was a Tok'Ra before, right? Is the local actor pool getting shallow? Sorry Brad ;)

sparklegem
July 22nd, 2005, 09:32 PM
I've looked around and haven't seen the Asgard translations posted yet, so I can tell you.

After the naked comment, Hermiod says, "These humans are infants."

Then after the 2nd rebooting he says, "The incompetence of these humans is beginning to make me angry." (I think. This one is a little less clear.)

Now, credit goes to he who discovered this. The find wasn't my idea. I just reversed it.

Edit: Anybody who say me type "impotence," it was just a typo! :o

Well, I had the "Ghost in the Machine" feeling as soon as you saw the technician was electrocuted (anyone seen X-Files?) AIs just like covertly knocking off their enemies.

I loved SG-1 and Atlantis this week. I thought this was a great episode, with all the moments everyone's already mentioned. My like of Sheppard lost a few points with the way he treated Hermiod. I guess people can't be open-minded about everything. Being Meridian-sensitive, I was waiting for some side effects to be mentioned from the F-302 flight, especially since Hermiod pointed out how close they were pushing it to lethal, but they were just making note of a sunburn.

I'm so proud of myself that I called the Sheppard flying off in the first F-302. I was having Tangent flashbacks as soon as we saw him in it.

The worst part of the episode for me, and not bad in quality but just in preference, was the Simon part.
(As my hubby said when Simon spoke to Weir, "Don't worry, Liz. You'll be banging Sheppard before the season's over." God, if my hubby sees it... )
*grimace*

I feel like I'm the only one in the world, but I really, really like Weir and Simon together! I'm not normally a big shipper, but I loved their chemistry. I'm kind of irked that the writers felt they had to cut off Elizabeth's emotional ties, though I know he couldn't have waited for her forever. Perhaps they could have worked him into Atlantis without the established relationship becoming cumbersome. Or at least not have gotten rid of him so fast :(.

And I see that nobody else thought anything of it, but I thought Elizabeth was being a tiny bit overzealous with Landry and the others. I appreciate her defending her position and being strong and assertive, but she was almost threatening to have her way as soon as another leader was brought up, and I thought it was reasonable business to want to appoint a more experienced leader.

P.S. Happy Novak wasn't there.

CYBEREAGLE19
July 22nd, 2005, 09:43 PM
I love the episod over all, mckay and hermie nows thats some funny stuff, but when did shepard leanr to fly a 302, this was never explained,

AGateFan
July 22nd, 2005, 09:49 PM
I love the episod over all, mckay and hermie nows thats some funny stuff, but when did shepard leanr to fly a 302, this was never explained,

The magical\matrix\GameKeeper chair.... makes all training fast and easy. Shep knows Kung Fu too!!.

No Seriously Shep is a skilled pilot on many different types of vehicles and he had a month or so on Earth (however long it took for Deadelus to come pick them up) plus the boring ride back to Pegusus. You dont think he was catching up on this War and Peace do you? I imagen they have training gear on the Deadelus to keep the pilots sharp during long hyperspace jumps.

Sela
July 22nd, 2005, 09:56 PM
It seems TPTB are determined to provide "ship" in SGA (latest con mentioned lots of romance on SGA this year. :S ). If they are going to "force" anything on us, I'd rather see Weir/Shep. . than the alternative. But I'm hoping things stay fairly quiet on the romo front.

I hope it stays quiet on the romance front as well. But if we have to have romance, can we please have anyone but Weir/Shep. :) The hair stands up on the back of my neck (and not in a good way) when I think about the two of them romantically involved. *shudder*

If they just have to do it, I would like to have Weir with the Ancient she met in the past who made it possible for her to save Atlantis. (Heck, he builds time machines - why not?) As for Shep...I'm not sure yet. I think the Teyla pairing would be a bit too obvious. Maybe someone new who comes to Atlantis from Earth. Next year. :)

rhoboat
July 22nd, 2005, 10:01 PM
It was a good story although I kept hearing the phrase, "What are you doing, Hal?" in the back of my mind. :)


Yup, shades of HAL 9000 in there, huh?

I thought the episode was solid, but not outstanding. Love Hermiod. McKay is hilarious as usual. I like it when Weir shows some major backbone as with General Landry and Col. Caldwell. Didn't like her fawning over Simon so much. Don't care for Sheppard's flightsuit, nor Landry's wearing of the leather bomber inside the SGC.

Just my $0.02. :)

Serebii
July 23rd, 2005, 12:19 AM
They're standard Fighter Plane controls, shouldn't be too hard to just read up on the specs and boom yer there. Its like changing cars from a Volkswagen to a Ford really

Hyperspace
July 23rd, 2005, 12:27 AM
Enjoyable ep, all around...the humor, flashbacks, and tightly written scenes with great lines elevate this ep above its rather simplistic but interesting plot. A solid, great episode!

UngoauldedUnas
July 23rd, 2005, 01:17 AM
I really enjoyed this episode.

"Is he supposed to be naked like that?" :D lol

morjana
July 23rd, 2005, 01:27 AM
The Asgard beaming technology is becoming an intense cop-out. As for why Shep was standing when he arrived... I think this isn't the first time something like this has happened, but it still doesn't make a lot of sense.

Well...maybe there's a Vertical Hold option with the Asgard beam transporter.

They are more advance than we are.

(Heck, maybe they could use it to shave off Daniels' beard.)

Morjana

Merlin7
July 23rd, 2005, 03:11 AM
Everything's synched again. SGA was a month behind SG-1 but they've since caught back up to each other since Sheppard's apparently been a Lt. Col. for a month now.

Oh, I thought of something else I didn't like: Why the hell can't Sheppard figure out that he's supposed to answer when people call him the first time? Weir and Caldwell both had to snap him out of his stupor in the 302s by calling his name 3 times.


Uh...Sheppard was zoning off caught up in his flashback with Ford the first time in the F-302. The second time with McKay he had to get them back into radio range and I imagine he was a bit focused on the *Whoa...almost died again. Dang* thing.

Redwall
July 23rd, 2005, 06:07 AM
To everyone who thinks Wier was too pushy in the flashback with Landry: is it not okay for Stargate's characters to have flaws? Is it not okay for people to get defensive when they feel threatened? I mean, seriously, you guys seem to expect these people to be a bunch of angels... I guess that's why so many don't like BSG...? Actual, real characters?

The F-302 dogfight was quite a nice effects sequence.

Also, the military have sweaters with their ranks on them? (Caldwell in the flashbacks)

Seastallion
July 23rd, 2005, 06:30 AM
The F-302 dogfight was quite a nice effects sequence.

Also, the military have sweaters with their ranks on them? (Caldwell in the flashbacks)

I agree about the dogfight... ;)

Yes, all four branches of the military have sweaters upon which they wear their ranks on their shoulders. Air Force has the blue sweaters, Navy has the black (or navy blue) sweaters, and I think Army and Marines both use green sweaters. It is a very common uniform item. I dunno... maybe you have to have been around the military to know that. :p

I loved the Hermiod / Sheppard interaction... hope to see more. :D

Well, it would appear that Atlantis now has even more folks living there. :) Not only a larger military presence, but also a much larger scientific contingent. That is understandable though... the more scientist they have there researching the city, the faster they will be able to unlock the secrets that can save them, and help advance humanity. ;)

ShadowMaat
July 23rd, 2005, 06:46 AM
I didn't have a problem with Weir's pushiness towards Landry, since it seemed like something she would do. I just wish there hadn't been that vague inkling that her defense of Shep was a little more personal than it should have been. *sigh* But maybe if I hadn't known that Joe & Paul wrote the ep, I wouldn't have been quite as uneasy about it.

Can't say I thought much of Landry, BTW. He reminds me of somebody's doddering uncle.

As far as Simon goes, I can sort of see his side of it, but it's still way too convenient for me that the only block between full-on Shep/Weir ship is now permanently removed.

I wonder if the actor is preparing for/involved in another role somewhere because that hair was a bit ridiculous, IMO, and while we've learned almost nothing about Simon, I would have thought him a little too tightly controlled to have hair like that. *shrug* Or maybe it's supposed to be symbolic of the fact that he's loosened up and let go of the past and is now living a little more on the wild side with this new girl of his. ;)

TheCorpulent1
July 23rd, 2005, 06:48 AM
Uh...Sheppard was zoning off caught up in his flashback with Ford the first time in the F-302. The second time with McKay he had to get them back into radio range and I imagine he was a bit focused on the *Whoa...almost died again. Dang* thing.
Those I could see, but come on, when he and McKay got into the F302 in the first place, just before the atmosphere vented? He's just sitting there with McKay while Caldwell frantically calls his name over the headset. Plus, the very fact that they used that schtick 2 or 3 times in this one episode is just weak in itself.

ShadowMaat
July 23rd, 2005, 06:53 AM
Those I could see, but come on, when he and McKay got into the F302 in the first place, just before the atmosphere vented? He's just sitting there with McKay while Caldwell frantically calls his name over the headset. Plus, the very fact that they used that schtick 2 or 3 times in this one episode is just weak in itself.
I felt the same way about that. There was absolutely no reason at all for Shep to wait EXCEPT for dramatic effect in the plot. Unless he was trying to count up all his parts again and was just really slow. ;)

This ep had a LOT of repetition, even within itself. The main thought seemed to be, "Why use a trick once when you can use it three or four times?" The answer, of course, is that you only use a trick once because after that it's obvious it's a trick and instead of being clever it becomes tedious. :rolleyes:

strivaria
July 23rd, 2005, 06:57 AM
Also, the military have sweaters with their ranks on them? (Caldwell in the flashbacks)

Yep, it's not standard issue, but I think all services have a sweater with buttoned tabs to put rank shoulder boards on. I know the Army does.

I love this episode. Loved that Shep was thrown by Hermiod's appearance. You really can't expect everyone to be so nonchalant about the not-so-human looking aliens they meet for the first time. Loved McKay (of course) and his getting out-snarked by Hermiod. Loved the flashback scenes, especially Sheppards, and how they were intercut with the realtime action.

Wasn't so good with the opening mess scene. It did seem a bit forced and I was definately not happy with the glossing over of Sheppard's promotion. Not so thrilled with Caldwell locking up the civilians because he didn't get a chance to pick them. The background investigation required for that level of clearance is pretty exhaustive... I wasn't allowed just a Top Secret until they cleared the fact that my older sister was born in a foreign hospital. There would be no reason for him not to trust the new people.

astronomicalchick
July 23rd, 2005, 06:57 AM
I didn't have a problem with Weir's pushiness towards Landry, since it seemed like something she would do. I just wish there hadn't been that vague inkling that her defense of Shep was a little more personal than it should have been. *sigh* But maybe if I hadn't known that Joe & Paul wrote the ep, I wouldn't have been quite as uneasy about it.

Can't say I thought much of Landry, BTW. He reminds me of somebody's doddering uncle.

As far as Simon goes, I can sort of see his side of it, but it's still way too convenient for me that the only block between full-on Shep/Weir ship is now permanently removed.

I wonder if the actor is preparing for/involved in another role somewhere because that hair was a bit ridiculous, IMO, and while we've learned almost nothing about Simon, I would have thought him a little too tightly controlled to have hair like that. *shrug* Or maybe it's supposed to be symbolic of the fact that he's loosened up and let go of the past and is now living a little more on the wild side with this new girl of his. ;)

*hands Shadow only-see-ship-if-you-want-to goggles*

I've heard this about Simon's hair and I'm thinking, mebbe he's having a mid-lifre crisis and is dating a young chick or something.. hence the strange hair.

macktheknife
July 23rd, 2005, 07:00 AM
This was a brilliant ep for me, absolutely loved every minute. It had a very good balance between character exposition (poor weir, may you find peace with shepaird :D), ford's cousin, Torri taking charge, and then Caldwell with his "I did'nt have any say in there selection" to shut down weir and lock down the scientists.

And the asgard. And the omg dood out of airlock (perhaps some people will come rescue him in 1000 years, and we can have 3001: A stargate odyessy. And the "dogfight" which was cool (including the good ole top gun "airbrake" manourver).

I did'nt really have any negative points, aside from slight nitpicking, the aforementioned not shooting down plane that's MOVING ON IT'S OWN, and I can deal with the 1st transport, although during the end part, I expected McKay to say "We are ready for Site-To-Site transport, Energize" or something.

Was a very good balance of humour, character and story development, as well as a good episode on it's own. Kudos to the writers, crew, actors etc.

keshou
July 23rd, 2005, 07:13 AM
I'm just posting without reading all the other messages -sheesh there's five pages already. Ya'll been very busy. :)

I thought this was a very solid episode. Enjoyed it a lot and the hour flew by. Yeah it had similarities to "Entity" but was about a jillion times better than that episode. And I liked that they "harkened" back to that experience and then added some twists and turns. Good mix of action and humor.

Things I loved:

*Weir fighting for the team she wanted and for Shep to stay in command. I actually really loved Weir in this episode - she's come a long way from the character I saw in the first half of S1 and for the first time I really see her as the leader of this group. I always had trouble believing she had the adventurer's spirit in her but I'm starting to buy it now.

*Caldwell. I'm also really enjoying the new dynamic that Caldwell is bringing to the mix. I think it helps establish more of a bond between the "original" group. I think he's also very believable as the commander of the Daedalus.

*Hermiod. Is there anything funnier than a snarky Asgard? I don't think so. :) And Shep's facial antics when he was talking to McKay about Hermie were priceless. Joe made me laugh out loud in that scene.

*Special effects. They weren't quite as extensive and impressive as Seige II and III but the F302 dogfights were quite good.

*Shep/Weir. Hate to say it but I'm enjoying this dynamic. It reminds me of the way I used to like Sam/Jack in the first three seasons. You knew they were forming a good bond but whether it was more than friendship was left open to interpretation. Of course the comparison gives me the heebie-jeebies since I grew to really dislike what they did with the S/J ship. Oh well - enjoying it for now and hoping the writers have learned from their SG-1 experience.

*Story continuity. I really like how they're building on the events of Seige III and remembering that Ford is still out there. The scene between Shep and Ford's cousin was a nice touch.

*Shep/McKay. They are just so funny together at times. Especially enjoyed the outing in the F302.

Things I didn't like:

*McKay being too much of a weenie at times. You know McKay has really grown as a character since S1 but they still have a tendency to make him too much of a woobie/screw-up at times. Last week it was the clip falling out of the gun. This week he scrunched over protecting the family jewels before they beamed him up. It was a wee bit silly considering all he's been thru in the last year.

*Teyla. I'm still having trouble with her. *sigh* I'd really like to warm up to her some more. Looking forward to next week's episode in the hopes the new cast member will bring out a side of her I like.

*Simon/Weir breakup was an eye-roller. Well you knew it was coming - Voyager did the same thing to "free up" Janeway for new relationships. Still, all rather predictable. Although frankly I would have run the other way as soon as I saw Simon's hair. :eek:

So - way to go writers, director and producers of Atlantis. Two episode in a row I enjoyed. In fact I may have even liked Intruder more than Siege III, surprisingly. :D

not so ancient
July 23rd, 2005, 07:27 AM
To understand Simon, put yourself in his shoes.His supersmart kinda hot girlfriend leaves him to go on a trip that she can't tell him about. Then she sends him a message saying, 'Get on with your life'. He sees this and says WTF? "I've been waiting for months and then I get a Dear John letter?" Simon may not be the best looking guy, but he's a big time doctor, which gives him a few extra points on the eligibility scale. Getting dumped is probably new to him.

My problem with Simon here is that he didn't come clean with Weir immediately. It seemed to me he was just stalling by saying he hadn't decided to go or not, and of course, delaying the inevitable hurt he would cause her by telling her he was involved with someone else.

Elizabeth sent Simon a 'move on with your life' message in Letters from Pegasus when she thought she'd be killed in Atlantis, or perhaps never able to return even if she survived. Well, he took her at her word. But then, she showed up again and things were obviously warm and friendly between them. That would have been the time to say "Wait, we can't just pick up where we left off." Elizabeth's not dumb. She would have picked up on signals if he'd not been so deceptive about why he was stalling his decision on going to Atlantis. She can't feel hurt about him not waiting for her, because she told him to. But she'd feel right to feel hurt about his not being upfront and honest with her.

He's a very qualified physician and researcher and she's a diplomat and now an intergalactic explorer. Making relationships work between two high achieving people who are dedicated to their careers is often quite difficult. Add in the factor of intergalactic distances and it's pretty much an impossible thing to do.

ShadowMaat
July 23rd, 2005, 07:30 AM
Can someone explain something to me, please? There was a scene where Weir and Caldwell were talking and I thought she made some comment about him being in command and it wasn't the one he wanted, but the flashback that followed it seemed to indicate that his being in command was part of the plans all along.

Or was he planning to transfer to Atlantis proper and lead there, allowing someone else to be in charge of the Daedalus?

Either I missed something or I misunderstood that entire section.

I thought McKay's hunching down thing was funny at first, but it's obvious that the "slight delay" in transport was just an excuse to leave Hewlett hunched up and looking silly. I'd have found it a little more likely if he'd gotten impatient and straightened up to complain only to get transported mid-snark. ;)

The ammo clip last week also seemed in keeping as McKay doesn't have a lot of familiarity with guns. That was true last season as well. HOWEVER, after all he's been through and knowing how much he hates appearing stupid, I have a hard time believing that he hasn't taken any time to properly familiarize himself with common guns/weaponry. And for some reason I keep remembering Unnatural Selection and Jack making Jonas disassemble/reassemble his weapon over and over and over (complete with Jonas's complaint about getting blisters).

BackStageJim
July 23rd, 2005, 07:36 AM
"Loved McKay (of course) and his getting out-snarked by Hermiod"


Now this is a great idea ... someone really smarter then McKay, with a wise-arsh tude and not afraid to show it. BTW, if the Asguard are naked, just what type of clothing would Sheppard want on them? Pink/Yellow beach Tommy Bahama shirt with shorts and flip-flops .... Teal'c been there already.

I would suggest they have skintight bio suit, but that at some time (just for giggles) Sheppard comes across the suit in the locker room. And in the background we have Hermiod laughing.

AGateFan
July 23rd, 2005, 07:36 AM
Caldwell was going to be taking over Sumners Job as head of the Military contingent on Atlantis proper, the job currently occupied by Sheppard. Not sure who would have been put in charge of the Deadelus, some other Full Bird Col I imagine.

ShadowMaat
July 23rd, 2005, 07:46 AM
Incidentally, can I just say that I called the whole Hermiod/McKay antagonism thing? :D After last week's ep I just knew there'd be fun if they ever went head to head. ;)

LoneStar1836
July 23rd, 2005, 08:26 AM
Staring sunward in space without massive polarization is a good way to fry your eyeballs and go blind. My understanding of the subject is admittedly wavery and I know allowances have to be made so that we can see the actors doing their thing, but it still seemed pretty dodgy.Hehe. I would think so. When Shep and Caldwell were looking directly at it, I was like y’all are going to fry your retinas. :D Course my mom was like, “This is going to end up sterilizing Rodney.” referring to all the concern about the radiation. Hehe. I’m not too sure she or my brother like McKay, like I do.

Overall, I thought the episode was entertaining enough, but nothing that impressive. So far I just haven’t been that excited by SGA. Last week’s was good, but neither of these two were just like Wow!

Liked the stuff with Shep visiting Ford’s cousin. This is going to haunt him like the killing of Sumner. Then his reaction to the Asgard. :D

I’m not really a fan of Teyla, but there at the end I really didn’t like the way Weir kind of gave her the cold shoulder, imo. Maybe it was just me. *shrug* I wasn’t really too happy with Teyla about how she acted when Zelenka had something to show Weir. That whole sequence on Atlantis just really felt off to me. :S

Shep pulling out a move from the old Maverick handbook, eh. The movie Top Gun, throwing the brakes on the guy behind you. ;)

So is this exposure to radiation going to play into a future episode other than McKay having a bad sunburn? :D I’m thinking about “Conversion”…………

Melyanna
July 23rd, 2005, 08:30 AM
Can someone explain something to me, please? There was a scene where Weir and Caldwell were talking and I thought she made some comment about him being in command and it wasn't the one he wanted, but the flashback that followed it seemed to indicate that his being in command was part of the plans all along.

Or was he planning to transfer to Atlantis proper and lead there, allowing someone else to be in charge of the Daedalus?

Either I missed something or I misunderstood that entire section.
It seems that Caldwell isn't commander of the military contingent. At least, I think that's what we were supposed to assume after Elizabeth stood up for John and got him promoted. After all, the point of her telling them to promote John was countering Caldwell's argument that John was too low in rank to be in command of the military contingent.

So Caldwell probably first assumed he'd be getting command of the base and was told that the President wasn't going to remove Elizabeth, and then assumed he'd at least be getting command of the military contingent. But Elizabeth won that fight, and Caldwell was left in command of the Daedalus, which isn't even on an exploratory mission. It seems to just be shuttling back and forth between Earth and Atlantis. That would explain how he's involved in Atlantis but not in every episode.

Anyway. Enjoyed the episode more than I was expecting to, though it had the classic problems of episodes that try to jump forward in time. It's just too jarring.

Did anyone else wonder if Joe Flanigan is doing the voice of Hermiod, or do we know who's doing it?

Major Fischer
July 23rd, 2005, 08:42 AM
Also, the military have sweaters with their ranks on them? (Caldwell in the flashbacks)

Yes, all the US armed services have optional-purchase pullover sweeters modelled after the British 'woolly pully'. They're also worn by women.

As for Weir and her behavior with Landry and Caldwell... they were in there to screw her and she was simply returning the favor. They were patronizing to her and she was protecting her people.

She barely knew Caldwell, and had he managed to wedge his way onto Atlantis as the military commander it was highly likely that he'd have tried to get her job too. I don't think she was rude to them, but she was putting them in their places.

I find it a little funny that people who are non-shippers are seeing more ship in this episode than I was. I didn't see much of any. I did think that Simon was an ass for not telling her straight off that he had met someone, instead of dragging it out for her. I had the distinct impression that he moved on before her message in LFP, after all you have to remember the last few episodes of Atlantis season 1 took place over a two week period ...

I interpretted her being upset as more to do with realization that he had moved on before she had. I also have the impression that her relationship with Simon has always been a bit stormy, and the reason she knew Myst!Simon was off was because he was being too nice.

ShadowMaat
July 23rd, 2005, 09:06 AM
Well, I'm admittedly over-sensitive to the whole ship issue and as I said, I'm particularly suspicious because Joe and Paul wrote this ep and I consider them to be the shippiest writers among the entirely shippy PTB.

There was nothing as overt as the hug last week, but because of that hug I'm now doubly inclined to watch the Shep and Weir scenes more closely. The musing scene at the beginning might have seemed less suspicious if another writer had written it... and if it hadn't followed on the heels of last week's hug. I just get a very bad vibe off the whole thing, now.

And on another note, was I the only one bothered by the fact that Shep and Weir were apparently notified about the doctor's death before Caldwell was? They were on the scene first, and even with the excuse of Caldwell being asleep and needing to get dressed first, it seemed a little odd.

Does anyone know what the protocols would be in a situation like that? I know Beckett falls under Weir's command, but would that be adequate reason to notify her of what happened? Shouldn't it be the Commander's decision, once he's on the scene? Or are she and Shep simply the next step down in the chain? Was Caldwell's XO there, at the very least?

not so ancient
July 23rd, 2005, 09:51 AM
Also, the military have sweaters with their ranks on them? (Caldwell in the flashbacks)

Yep, all branches have that.

As much as I liked Caldwell in that, because it shows off Mitch's big shoulders, I wish he had been wearing Landry's leather jacket. Because hello, leather jacket on him? Rawwwwwwrrrr.

Oh sorry. Got a bit hormonal there. Never mind me. Carry on.

:::turns up air conditioner:::

Major Fischer
July 23rd, 2005, 10:04 AM
Does anyone know what the protocols would be in a situation like that? I know Beckett falls under Weir's command, but would that be adequate reason to notify her of what happened? Shouldn't it be the Commander's decision, once he's on the scene? Or are she and Shep simply the next step down in the chain? Was Caldwell's XO there, at the very least?

My impression was they were told first only because they were around the corner.

knocknashee
July 23rd, 2005, 10:18 AM
My one BIG complaint - in SG1, every time someone got a promotion, a big deal was made of it, but we only hear Sheppard has been promoted in a very brief moment. Then, when Shep is visiting Ford's family, he is still is not in uniform. We are now in season 2, but have never seen Shep in "Dress." Does the Wardrobe Dept. not have an Air Force uniform that fits Flanigan?

Apparently not...*feels slightly deprived* They made such a big deal about his promotion in the spoilers...what an anti-climax...http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/Knocknashee/smilies/rolleyes.gif

All in all though, I think it was a pretty good episode, though I think I'd have prefered more about the fallout after The Siege Pt III - it just seems a little like Harry Potter arrived on Atlantis, waved his wand and suddenly everything is fixed... *shrugs*

Just my £0.02 worth...

okrichie
July 23rd, 2005, 10:21 AM
Clips for this weeks Hermiod translations are now in the official thread :D

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=14236&page=1&pp=50

Thanks for the quick translations sparklegem, I don't have access to the episode as quickly as you do :) But now we can all hear the clips :)

This episode was another fantastic episode as far as i saw it. I loved the Asgard interactions, and I loved the fact that they left Atlantis in Weir's control. I love that they have opened the board for hundreds of different plot branches from here on in. Great stuff :D

sparklegem
July 23rd, 2005, 10:58 AM
I thought Elizabeth was being a tiny bit overzealous with Landry and the others. I appreciate her defending her position and being strong and assertive, but she was almost threatening to have her way as soon as another leader was brought up, and I thought it was reasonable business to want to appoint a more experienced leader.


To everyone who thinks Wier was too pushy in the flashback with Landry: is it not okay for Stargate's characters to have flaws? Is it not okay for people to get defensive when they feel threatened? I mean, seriously, you guys seem to expect these people to be a bunch of angels... I guess that's why so many don't like BSG...? Actual, real characters?

I was just expressing what I thought of Weir's behavior. I wasn't condemning her because she's not perfect, I'm glad the characters have flaws and welcome them.


I'd have found it a little more likely if he'd gotten impatient and straightened up to complain only to get transported mid-snark.

I love the idea! That would have been really funny too.

Excali5033
July 23rd, 2005, 11:04 AM
Yes, the sweaters are evil. Sigh.

As for the whole sunblind thing, anyone designing a space vehicle that DOESN'T add polarizing canopies deserves to be fired. Minor issue. Personally I'd like to see Stargate take a hint from BSG and make the starfighters maneuver more realistically, but I guess that's a minor issue, too.

Also, someone asked 'don't the F-302's have hyperdrives?' I don't think they do. The X-302 had one, yes, but it never worked correctly and that was before they had a viable mothership to carry them (seeing as the Prometheus was plagued with its own problems). Now that Prometheus is out of its growing pains and they have the Daedalus to boot (and more BC-303s on the way, I would presume) there's not much of a point of installing (a very expensive, no doubt) hyperdrives on all the F-302's.

Although this raises another question, I wonder if the BC-303's are still using naquadriah or if the Asgard drives use a better power source?

ToasterOnFire
July 23rd, 2005, 11:13 AM
Wow, I actually thought this ep was far better than Siege 3! My thoughts:


-Glad to see everyone back to normal, or at least more so since Siege. The constant snapping and yelling and whatnot was wearing a bit thin. It was good to see everyone work together as a team and stand up for each other.

-Much more Rodney in this ep, thank goodness! So first Rodney has to see Gaul die in Defiant One, then see Grodin die in Siege 1, and now he has to watch his friend die in this ep. Poor guy, he seems to get so much direct emotional whumpage. And we got to see Elizabeth, Carson, and Shep all do stuff on Earth, but not a peep about what Rodney did? Bummer.

-The ongoing problem of Shep's disobedience still bothers me. I found it odd that Weir used the exact same defense on the SGC ("disobedience is okay because he saved lots of lives!") that Shep used on her in Hot Zone. I also found it odd that we never see Shep held accountable for his actions; the conversation between Weir and Shep was never completed in Hot Zone and I'm still unconvinced with how much she trusts him now. Additionally, we saw Weir put up with scrutiny from the SGC regarding Shep, but we never see Shep himself go in front of the SGC. Would a true military force really put up with direct disobedience, done several times over the course of one's career, even if it saved lives? I doubt it, and Shep's promotion on top of that just made it more out of place.

-And on that note: the shippy scenes were less screamingly obvious! Thank you PTB! The brainbleach lives to see another day! :D

-Shep's scene with Ford's cousin was very well done.

-I figured a Weir/Simon breakup was coming, but it was interesting to see that the breakup was more from his side than hers. I wasn't expecting that at all.

-I was hoping in the very end that we would see some discussion, or at least the beginning of one, between Weir and Teyla. Nope, instead we get an excited Zelenka talking about the city (he was cute, but still). That's too bad; I'd like to see some sort of bond form between those two.

Redwall
July 23rd, 2005, 11:23 AM
-The ongoing problem of Shep's disobedience still bothers me. I found it odd that Weir used the exact same defense on the SGC ("disobedience is okay because he saved lots of lives!") that Shep used on her in Hot Zone. I also found it odd that we never see Shep held accountable for his actions; the conversation between Weir and Shep was never completed in Hot Zone and I'm still unconvinced with how much she trusts him now. Additionally, we saw Weir put up with scrutiny from the SGC regarding Shep, but we never see Shep himself go in front of the SGC. Would a true military force really put up with direct disobedience, done several times over the course of one's career, even if it saved lives? I doubt it, and Shep's promotion on top of that just made it more out of place.

I got the impression that Shep's promotion was very much a political move forced by Weir. As a world-famous UN diplomat, she's probably the only member of the Atlantis expedition or the Department of Homeworld Security really trusted by all the countries involved. As such, she can get pretty much anything she wants, especially if she's up against the US military, which none of the other nations want to gain any more power with regards to the Stargate (see Disclosure).

sparklegem
July 23rd, 2005, 11:58 AM
-The ongoing problem of Shep's disobedience still bothers me. I found it odd that Weir used the exact same defense on the SGC ("disobedience is okay because he saved lots of lives!") that Shep used on her in Hot Zone. I also found it odd that we never see Shep held accountable for his actions; the conversation between Weir and Shep was never completed in Hot Zone and I'm still unconvinced with how much she trusts him now. Additionally, we saw Weir put up with scrutiny from the SGC regarding Shep, but we never see Shep himself go in front of the SGC. Would a true military force really put up with direct disobedience, done several times over the course of one's career, even if it saved lives? I doubt it, and Shep's promotion on top of that just made it more out of place.
I agree, the fact that we never saw any closure of Sheppard taking accountability for his actions kind of bothered me a little, especially because, last season, General O'Neill tiptoed around all his friends. I can't believe Elizabeth would be comfortable with losing control at such a crucial time. Like I said before, I thought Elizabeth was being a little overzealous when the military was just addressing a reasonable line of business. And it would have been nice to see what Sheppard thought of being made the permanent head of the Atlantis military, since at the beginning he was somewhat the reluctant hero.

ShadowMaat
July 23rd, 2005, 12:02 PM
-Much more Rodney in this ep, thank goodness! So first Rodney has to see Gaul die in Defiant One, then see Grodin die in Siege 1, and now he has to watch his friend die in this ep. Poor guy, he seems to get so much direct emotional whumpage.
I was thinking about that earlier. Working with Rodney seems to be rather fatal. Zelenka should count his blessings he's survived as long as he has. ;)

lily
July 23rd, 2005, 12:36 PM
Liked it very much! In fact, I loved it! A great episode.

Some highlights/top favs after watching it only once (might add more after watching it more times):

1. The scene with Weir and Sheppard talking together at the beggining. Loved to see more of them sharing some personal time.

2. The flashbacks. A nice surprise. Totally loved them. All of them. But if I had to pick some favs, I'd go for Shep at Ford's relative/friend's house (well, can't remember right now the exact relationship between Ford and that woman) and the one with Elizabeth finding out that Simon was not going to Atlantis and that he was seeing someone else. Loved those two flashbacks.

3. Sheppard's promotion. I already knew about the promotion because I had read spoilers, but I didn't know, or didn't remember, it happened in this episode. A minor complain here: I wanted to SEE Sheppard's promotion ceremony, with him in the dress blue uniform *THUD* <have to... stop... thinking... about... Shep... in... uniform>. We haven't seen him in the USAF blues yet. <sigh>

4. Hermie ROCKS. Hahahahahah. A personality so different from Thor's. He's great

5. Sheppard talking about Hermie and the way he looked at him (that scene with Mc Kay). ROTFLMAO

6. Shep piloting other stuff than the jumper. We haven't seen that since Rising, when he flew a chopper. Love him in pilot mode (I'm an aviation nut, so I love anything that shows planes or any kind of space/aircraft)

7. Haven't anyone there heard of Norton Antivirus? Maybe they hadn't gotten the latest update. LOL. Imagine the latest Norton ad: "it cleans all viruses, even those from other galaxies". Hehehe

8. McKay and Shep being locked from the 302s hangar, and McKay assuming that position before being beamed up. OMG. I laughed so hard that I had tears in my eyes. So damn funny.

9. McKay and Shep inside the 302, Shep telling him something like he better stopped talking in order to keep the limited supplies for more time. And raising his finger. LOL

10. The final dogfight. Yeah!! Once again, as an aviation nut, I loved it!

Lily

Kalinda
July 23rd, 2005, 12:52 PM
Well.. let's see...

At first I didn't think it'd be that great, though I didn't think of Entity at all really, the episode just seemed like it wasn't going to be interesting.

But I'm glad I was wrong...

The story wasn't nessecarily anything really awesome, but it had so many great moments and a few exciting scenes. Plus some nice character development via flashbacks, although I'm not sure if they seemed out of place or not since they really had nothing to do with the main plot the episode. Still, it was nice to have an explanation for Sheppard's promotion and I figured there was an end in sight for Weir's relationship with Simon.

Hermiod was great! I loved Sheppard's reaction to him - "Is he supposed to be naked like that?" and McKay's conversations with him.

I, too, was kinda bothered by how Sheppard was magically standing after being transported from the 302 where he was sitting.

The dog fight between Sheppard and McKay's 302 and the virus-controlled one was probly my favourite part of the episode ^_^

So it was a good, fun episode, nothing spectacular, but still good.

8/10.

PsychoPenguin
July 23rd, 2005, 01:29 PM
Just had a thought about this episode...

Last night, I was disappointed that Shep's promotion took place off-screen. I wanted to see how the writers would handle his "pinning-on" ceremony. But now having thought about it, I realize why they decided that showing it on-screen wouldn't be a good idea. Namely, the fact that whoever they decided to have do the actual "pinning-on" would have raised more story headaches than they wanted to deal with right now.

I say this because typically an officer's commander does the "pinning-on." (This is how it was for my husband up until his last promotion.) This raises a problem because who precisely *is* Shep's superior? The way TPTB have explained things in the past is that it's whoever is the head of Homeworld Security, be it Hammond or O'Neill. Thus, they would be the ones to do the pinning. And TPTB are not about to pay DSD or RDA just to come in and do that!

Alternatively, Weir could have done it, as his de facto boss, but then you're really taking chances with the ship/anti-ship going on out there. Bad enough she hugged him last week, and basically extorted his promotion for him. If we had a scene of her pinning him on... well, let's take a moment to imagine the uproar...

*Taking a moment*

*Okay, I'm done*

Finally, they could have done like they did at my husband's last promotion and like they're planning to do at his next one: have a spouse or family member "assist" with the pinning-on. That wouldn't have worked either because TPTB are keeping Shep's background a mystery, and if some parent/sib/SO suddenly showed up, the writers would be showing their hand sooner than they probably would want.

So I can see why we didn't get to see Shep's promotion. Perhaps they're keeping that flashback in mind for sometime later this season, sometime when they can work out the logistics of having a superior do it, or when they feel comfortable storywise having certain other people do it.

Anyway, I hope so! :)

Easter Lily
July 23rd, 2005, 02:15 PM
This episode reminds me about all the things I like about Stargate... the energy, the tension, the sense of fun and the trademark humour. I was just saying to my husband that when Stargate does humour well... it does it very, very well. When it doesn't... it sinks like the Prometheus that doesn't get unbound... :p

I'm probably one of the few people who actually likes this episode even more than the larger than life Seige III... I enjoyed the unfolding of events, mixed in with flashbacks. I never thought that Stargate was capable of this kind of storytelling... tightly integrated flashbacks with a dominant storyline in thriller mode. Compared to the previous episode, Intruder is much more focused in its execution and it was a huge bonus to be able to catch glimpses into the inner life of cast members.
I can't believe I'm saying this but I think we're finally getting a main female character on Stargate (Weir) that I can sink my teeth into. One that is competent, feisty, intelligent and yet has her vulnerable side. I personally saw all of that in this episode and I rejoiced. While the writers have a long way to go, I'm content for now that they're taking steps in the right direction.
I, too am happy that although Ford has gone AWOL... he has not been forgotten. It really strengthens in my mind that the bond I saw between Sheppard and Ford was not a figment of my imagination. I love the reminder that he is still a part of the team even in his absence.

I didn't see anything particularly shippy in that conversation between Weir and Sheppard... they looked like a couple of friends interacting on a personal level. I was, however, quite disappointed (as a Sheppard fangirl speaking) that we didn't see his promotion and all that felt somewhat anti-climatic... part of me thinks that that will be revisited somewhere down the track but at this stage I can only speculate that his promotion was more of a political appointment rather than one that the military embraced wholeheartedly.

Hermiod... Hermie... What a star! He's certainly become Thor's rival for my affections. I loved his interaction with Rodney and the way Sheppard was eyeing him off... that was a nice touch actually... that someone, certainly Sheppard, would be uncomfortable with a member of an alien species. It added some degree of realism for me as well as some well-placed humour. It was also the kind of cross cultural uneasiness that I had hoped for Teyla but has unfortunately never eventuated.

All in all, a well-constructed episode that weaves strong personal elements into its overall storyline.

joasia
July 23rd, 2005, 02:27 PM
Yup, shades of HAL 9000 in there, huh?Just a little bits ;). But what did they expect - they go and install this red computer-eyes on the ship and think that the computer will stay obedient? Fools! :D

prion
July 23rd, 2005, 02:56 PM
"Loved McKay (of course) and his getting out-snarked by Hermiod"



Heh, McKay (and Sheppard) sure wouldn't be happy if they knew what Hermoid (who I want to call Hemroid.. <G>) was saying. IT's been deciphered already over at http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/Stargate_Atlantis_Talk/

:D

okrichie
July 23rd, 2005, 03:24 PM
Heh, McKay (and Sheppard) sure wouldn't be happy if they knew what Hermoid (who I want to call Hemroid.. <G>) was saying. IT's been deciphered already over at http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/Stargate_Atlantis_Talk/

:D

Not to brag or anything but... On the contrary, they only translated ONE of the TWO bytes from the episode :P And they also only caught onto it last night, not in the Seige Part 3. For the comprehensive guide (listen to me bragging) to Asgard speech, you can go to our thread here at Gateworld where you can even check out the audio clips to hear for yourself :)

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=14236

Unamed
July 23rd, 2005, 03:32 PM
Once again complements on another job well done, imo it was a great ep and I love he way it was themed on the deadalus alone. Hermy is cool! Best quote ever: "Crap Indeed"!!

LoveYouBaby
July 23rd, 2005, 05:01 PM
This episode was very good. It had everything, I love the flashbacks, which was sorta "grayed", that was awesome. So Weir is open and free of any ties. That Simon, is it too much to ask to remain on guard for Weir, to stand by her? I felt so sorry for Weir, it felt like she would do anything for him, and he just turned his back away from her, and started to hump the next girl he could find. What a jerk, Weir is so much better off without him.

What type man is he?!

Anyway, emotions aside, the damn Wraith virus, one smart bugger. Reminds me of my encounters with the stupid ad program - Lop.com, every so often, the entire program would just install itself again, therefore my IE would be over-run with search bars, and cr*p.

I too, do the whole system restore, before the full self-installation of the stupid ad, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Ads, we don't want them, we don't need them, just like viruses, biological and computer ones.

I'm glad the writers didn't forget about Ford's family, and how closely knitted he was with his grandparents and now his cousin. Ford will be back, he has to, man! Hermoid rocked in this episode! Now I'm waiting someone to reverse-play what he said, like a member did for the first time Hermoid spoke in reverse.

So since the incident of "The Siege" (Part 3), it has been 2 months, been that long already? Makes sense, SG-1's "Avalon" took place before "The Siege" (Part 2)-ish, so as long as the time frame is clearly labeled, then I and probably alongside others will be fine.

Teyla seems to have learned how to use a Tablet PC, those past 2 months, she has been learning, keeping busy, helping to run Atlantis, and remaining as an liaison or ambassador to her people. My my my, Teyla sure is growing up before our very eyes. Was she flirting with Sheppard at the final scene?

Hmm... LOL

Of course, since the break-up, I noticed that Weir has flirted with Sheppard on the Daedalus more than once. Either way, it's good that they're back on Atlantis, we learned about how the Prometheus use to transport people and looks like we're gonna learn a few more things about the city, all thanks to the ZPM.

Weir did great when faced against the USAF, and who knew Caldwell would be such a SOB.

Well done, writers, it was a very good story and well delivered, it had everything, history, relationship, science, technology, modern dilemma, i.e. viruses and how they're a pain in the a*s.

9/10

Final point, we have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs, not 10 fingers! LOL :P

SGalisa
July 23rd, 2005, 05:42 PM
I never read the spoilers for this, so I had NO idea what this episode was about.
Thought I saw Col. Everett sitting at the SGC briefing room table...? it looked like him (from "Siege, part 3")... keeping mum and without having any "shakes"...
Everett did say (In Siege 3) he'd be in the next group sent back to earth.

Originally posted by BaKsHi, at post # 21:
This episode had twists and turns in it.I thought so. Resolve one situation, and a new one pops up. The only predictability factor I ever see is knowing that somehow if the actors show up in the next ep (from reading the previews), they'll survive getting to the ending somehow. It's in getting there that often finds its unanticipated twists with turns.

That's what I found to be the wonder and *beauty* of Stargate. When your mind is free of all other TV programming, and past eps, whether something is similar or the same, it allows seeing the unexpected from a different angle. And that what it makes it fresh or new for me, anyway.

This post will probably get buried admist the others, but I'm also grateful that these forums provide so many different perspectives of the same picture. Not all reactions are the same. I do hope TPTB working on TV projects realize and *appreciate* that thought.


Originally posted by FoolishPleasure, at post # 67:
Yep - I thought it was "Entity Redux" - but they did it better, and I liked the references to "Entity" by McKay. Nice touch.And it also brought a sort of an expanded continuity to the SG storyline. :D


Originally posted by JanusAncient, at post # 31:
Here we come to Sheppard, has any other person noticed that he has come up with more ideas, than in the entire first season, he is out-thinking Mckay, the guy is smart, but he isn't that intelligent...Maybe he really is *secretly* that intelligent...
Afterall, he is part Ancient (has the ATA genetics factor). ;)

This next tidbit was mentioned in the Siege 3 ep topic...
Maybe it's because Sheppard is of MENSA level intelligence: He has shown several times that he can think that way, but he doesn't always publicly display it, and unless there is an extreme need, he often keeps it deeply hidden. When pushed under certain pressure situations, Sheppard can think almost equally on par with McKay, and that has often thrown McKay off his own intellectual balance. (other examples: The Storm, Brotherhood) :D

LoveYouBaby
July 23rd, 2005, 05:47 PM
Well Sheppard is suppose to be like O'Neill. Smart, but doesn't like people to think he's smart.

But it doesn't mean he's intelligent though.

Did anyone else get the impression that whilst the senior staff was away, Telya was in command of Atlantis? (As she does have leadership skills)

ShadowMaat
July 23rd, 2005, 05:49 PM
So Weir is open and free of any ties. That Simon, is it too much to ask to remain on guard for Weir, to stand by her? I felt so sorry for Weir, it felt like she would do anything for him, and he just turned his back away from her, and started to hump the next girl he could find. What a jerk, Weir is so much better off without him.

What type man is he?!

He's the kind of man who has a hard time dealing with the fact that his girlfriend would hie off in the middle of their relationship to parts unknown (am I correct in thinking Simon didn't have security clearance at the beginning of the mission?), that said girlfriend would make no attempts to contact him and when she DID finally send a message, it was a recorded greeting telling him to get on with his life. Basically a video "Dear John" letter.

Then, some indeterminate time later, she suddenly reappears, expecting to pick up right where she left off AND expecting him to move with her to another galaxy, leaving his friends, his family, and his business behind him knowing that visiting home will be a difficult and likely infrequent commodity and that his life in Atlantis will be fraught with untold dangers and the possibility of a thousand different kinds of death.

Actually, he might not even know that much. He didn't sign the non-disclosure agreement, right? So all he knows is that he'd be sent far away to a place that's probably very dangerous.

And as he implied, not everyone is cut out to be an adventurer- lots of people are plain homebodies. And if he doesn't know just how vital the work is, and just how much potential benefit there is to all of humanity, then it's a bit hard to figure that in to his decision-making. To say nothing of the fact that even if someone TELLS you that such-and-such is "vital to all human life as we know it", it's a bit hard to take it seriously, especially if you can't put it into context.

I can understand why he dumped her, I just don't like what it implies for Weir's situation back on Atlantis.




...and who knew Caldwell would be such a SOB.
Caldwell an SOB? I never got that impression. His actions all seemed very logical and "right" to me. And I love how he pulled her aside and called her on the carpet for questioning his decisions. Was there not a very similar (and very PUBLIC) situation on Atlantis between Weir and Cavanagh? Only now Caldwell is the one chewing her out! ;) Seems right to me.

I also like the fact that he has a backbone and isn't afraid to stick up for himself and his decisions. He's almost Weir-like, that way. :P I look forward to seeing more of him this season.

LoveYouBaby
July 23rd, 2005, 05:57 PM
I hope Weir and Caldwell get to have more face-offs later in this season.

Regarding Simon, I forgot about the episode "Letters from Pegasus", either way, I felt sorry for Weir. A "Dear John" letter-video, maybe. But it seems like he's been seeing someone else not long after Weir had left...

Why am I being so damn protective of Weir, god dammit!

Snap out of it, LYB, snap out of it! LOL, Weir still has Sheppard!

ShadowMaat
July 23rd, 2005, 06:08 PM
I dunno, I think Weir has a bit of a martyr complex, making all these "noble sacrifices" for the good of mankind and then acting all hurt when things don't work out the way she wants them to. She TOLD him to move on, then she's upset that he did? Way to send mixed signals, Liz.

I can see her side of it, too, but frankly I feel more for Simon and HIS situation, especially if he doesn't know the full scope of things.

Easter Lily
July 23rd, 2005, 06:12 PM
Well Sheppard is suppose to be like O'Neill. Smart, but doesn't like people to think he's smart.

But it doesn't mean he's intelligent though.

Did anyone else get the impression that whilst the senior staff was away, Telya was in command of Atlantis? (As she does have leadership skills)

Like what O'Neill used to be, you mean... :rolleyes: Towards the end of his term as team leader he started to rely on Carter just a little too much. The whole "Carter?" business became rather repetitive.

I think Sheppard's ingenuity has always been a double-edged sword... he's always been able to think outside the square but I think it also makes him the maverick that he is... ie his propensity to not follow orders...


When pushed under certain pressure situations, Sheppard can think almost equally on par with McKay, and that has often thrown McKay off his own intellectual balance. (other examples: The Storm, Brotherhood)
I think it's always been the case... even as early as Rising...

Salty
July 23rd, 2005, 06:27 PM
This was a great ep!!! Last week and this week the eps didn't just solve one problem - it was ongoing issues that had to be addressed! Once one problem is taken care of, there's another one that has to be solved! :)

Shep was awesome!! From his little boy excitement at his promotion, to his saving of the day....again. He and Rodney are just an awesome team - this time around Shep solved the problem and implemented the solution. He's smart and he's quick on his feet! Rodney talks fast, but needs Shep around to bounce his ideas off of - they're great together!! And Caldwell is gonna realize at some point that Atlantis has become a somewhat well-oiled machine - teamwork baby!!! :)

Joe Flanigan is terrific - he can totally carry a scene!! Loved him in the 302 when he was flying away waiting to be beamed. He was tense but trusted in his team to get him home. And loved him with Hermiod especially knowing how Joe hates to work with the puppet!! ;) :p

So far this season ROCKS!!

jyh
July 23rd, 2005, 06:54 PM
Regarding Weir's relationship with Narim-- er, sorry, with SIMON..... did anyone else get a flashback to Star Trek Voyager, when Janeway's fiance, still on earth, ended up 'moving on' and being with someone else? Personally, I can see both sides for Weir... she returns to earth and tells Simon what she thought he wanted to hear, and had no reason to think otherwise up to that point.. He, however, lives here on earth on a day-to-day basis, and of course as we all know, "life happens" and he moved on. No real fault on either side, to my way of thinking.

As for Sheppard's promotion, I too thought it was Weir's doing. Landry & the other military PTB didn't seem to have much faith in Sheppard. Apparently Sheppard has a backstory of being derelict in his duties or disobeying orders, as referred to in the pilot. Then Col Everett accused him of dereliction with regard to Col Sumner. Not to mention the times like Hot Zone when Sheppard just did whatever he wanted regardless of Weir's wishes. So I think the concerns that the military hierarchy has about Shep are totally valid. However, I also think that Weir, who has worked most closely with Sheppard, and has the best reason to know--not to mention the fact that SHE's the one who has to rely on him for her personal safety--is best qualified to judge whether or not he has 'the right stuff' and earned the promotion.

I really enjoyed this episode, even if some points were derivative of other episodes/shows.

golfbooy
July 23rd, 2005, 07:05 PM
Ok, I haven't really commented too much on Atlantis, certainly not to the extent that I blither on about SG-1. That said, I continue to be impressed by the quality production that Brad Wright puts together week in, week out. Atlantis has certainly reaped a multitude of benefits from it's parent show.

However, Intruder is another in a pattern of recent episodes that seem to borrow too heavily, at least for me, from SG-1. If Before I Sleep was Brief Candle, Point of View, and Moebius mixed together and swirled about, then Intruder was an unforgivably huge bit of Entity, Nemesis, and Tangent mixed in the same blender. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed each and every one of those SG-1 episodes. And, admittedly, I did enjoy Intruder, to an extent. I'm just saying, from a story perspective, it was a little redundant. Now, I fully recognize that it's the same guys writing both shows; I expect there to be some "borrowing". But this just seems blatanly lazy. And no, having McKay mention the events of Entity doesn't make it better. Not only was this a rehash of older SG-1 stuff, but the same damn thing kept happening over and over and over. How many times can you play the same damn card in the same episode? And thank Odin (well, at the very least Hermiod) for those Asgard transporters. Those things are lifesavers, literally.

Despite all of that, my biggest problem with the episode has to be the virus itself. I'm certainly no expert on Atlantis, but I can't recall ever seeing the Wraith presented as technologically inclined enough to resort to something so...so...so...high tech. It's usually more, ARRRGGGHH, me kill, me hungry. I mean, let's face it, they're not exactly the Aschen, are they? Joking aside, in just the last episode they resorted to kamikaze attacks against the city of Atlantis. After all, why not try downloading the virus to Atlantis? We've got enough Earth tech there to infect the city, right? To go from such crude, yet admittedly effective, tactics to something so Machiavellian over the course of one episode is a bit hard to swallow.

Nonetheless, I choked it down. And I'm glad I did. The reward was a good bit of character development, mostly for Dr. Weir. She's really been great this season so far. She's been so good in the last two episodes that I'd gladly trade Beau Bridge's General Landry for Torri Higginson's Dr. Weir in a heartbeat. In general, I really don't think that Atlantis has much over SG-1, but she's got way more going for her as a character than Landry does. Oh well, can't have it all.

As for the Simon stuff, well, fans are gonna see what they want to see. And, that's just what fans have been asking for from TPTB--ambiguity. Of course, they weren't too ambiguous with the shippy overtones of Sheppard's and Weir's late night coffee rendezvous, so what do I know?

And, what's up with the writing of McKay? As many have pointed out already, he seems to be rapidly devovling into the Felger persona that SG-1 scuttled (dear God, let him be scuttled) back in season seven. McKay's always been a difficult character to place in an appropriate context, at least as far as my tastes go, but this year he's just been a clown. And I'm not talking Feste here. Rodney's perspicacity seems to be a rather selective trait. Give me Beckett or Zelenka any day. Still, we're only two episodes in; though, the spoilers from Duet already have me cringing.

In the end, for me, Intruder was a thoroughly enjoyable, if forgettable, episode of Atlantis. Bring on Runner, where I hope some more substantial events take place.

PsychoPenguin
July 23rd, 2005, 07:27 PM
Ok, I haven't really commented too much on Atlantis, certainly not to the extent that I blither on about SG-1. That said, I continue to be impressed by the quality production that Brad Wright puts together week in, week out. Atlantis has certainly reaped a multitude of benefits from it's parent show.

You know, I don't know if it's because I'm in a mood today or something, but that statement sounds awfully patronizing to me. It's like I have this vision of you patting a DVD of "Atlantis" and saying, "Nice show. But don't stray too far from big brother. You won't do very well." But again, maybe I'm in a mood...

Yes, "SGA" has benefited from the fact that BW and Co. already knew how to run a sci-fi show. I'm sure that's what you meant to imply there...


However, Intruder is another in a pattern of recent episodes that seem to borrow too heavily, at least for me, from SG-1. If Before I Sleep was Brief Candle, Point of View, and Moebius mixed together and swirled about, then Intruder was an unforgivably huge bit of Entity, Nemesis, and Tangent mixed in the same blender.

See, I agree with that statement...and yet at the same time I don't. In my own earlier post, I mentioned that this plot was a bit of a retread. (Although I disagree about "Before I Sleep." There's a difference between containing similiar elements and containing a similar plot.) However, I felt that this episode was an improvement on the "SG1" episode utilizing the same device. The difference, as I also stated earlier, was in the execution, with the "Atlantis" characters and universe giving it a much more interesting spin. The lines and characters moments made the old plot more attractive and intriguing. Again, I like some character development with my plot, and I feel like "Atlantis" consistently does a better job of that than "SG1" does.

Hmmm...must be one of those lessons BW learned being applied here...



Despite all of that, my biggest problem with the episode has to be the virus itself. I'm certainly no expert on Atlantis, but I can't recall ever seeing the Wraith presented as technologically inclined enough to resort to something so...so...so...high tech. It's usually more, ARRRGGGHH, me kill, me hungry. I mean, let's face it, they're not exactly the Aschen, are they? Joking aside, in just the last episode they resorted to kamikaze attacks against the city of Atlantis. After all, why not try downloading the virus to Atlantis? We've got enough Earth tech there to infect the city, right? To go from such crude, yet admittedly effective, tactics to something so Machiavellian over the course of one episode is a bit hard to swallow.

I actually didn't have a problem with this. To me, the Wraith aren't that easily boiled down. They are ruthless and single-minded, yes, but that doesn't necessarily compute to make them stupid as well. They've shown a fair amount of technological sophistication. It's their emotional and cultural development that can't seem to move past their need to cultivate humans as food.


And, what's up with the writing of McKay? As many have pointed out already, he seems to be rapidly devovling into the Felger persona that SG-1 scuttled (dear God, let him be scuttled) back in season seven. McKay's always been a difficult character to place in an appropriate context, at least as far as my tastes go, but this year he's just been a clown.

I don't see that...yet. Admittedly, we're only a couple of eps in. But I somehow doubt this will be the case. (I have faith in DH, if not necessarily TPTB.) :)


In the end, for me, Intruder was a thoroughly enjoyable, if forgettable, episode of Atlantis. Bring on Runner, where I hope some more substantial events take place.

And I think this is because you're not invested in the characters of "SGA." Just like I'm not invested in the characters of "SG1." As I think you and I have discussed before, this will impact the way we both view both shows, since nice character moments can salvage an "SGA" ep for me the same way they can for you with "SG1." (I've been nice and not gone over to the "SG1" threads and posted my opinion of "Avalon" thus far. But so far it's been one really, really slow ep, and one moderately okay ep for me and hubby. We'll be back for part three. But after that no promises!) :)

ShadowMaat
July 23rd, 2005, 07:45 PM
Personally, I have a problem with Atlantis becoming a dumping ground for frustrated SG-1 writers trying to rewrite eps. Whether or not Atlantis "improved upon" ideas used in eps of SG-1 doesn't change the fact that the ideas were used on SG-1. Just because they've thought up cooler ways to do things since then doesn't make it right (IMO, anyway) for them to redo old eps. Atlantis is supposed to be NEW and DIFFERENT. For the most part, it is. But then you have them cannibalizing stuff from SG-1 and even carrying over certain elements/characters.

Hermiod is, without a doubt, an extremely cool character and I like the added snark value he brings to the show (although I certainly hope that isn't ALL he will be used for). But he's still an Asgard. Likewise, in Critical Mass we find out that there's a Goa'uld in Pegasus. Now, I'm all for a little crossover. I understand that some of the characters have to appear on both shows, but I think it should be kept to a strict minimum and that the enemies/allies/whatevers of one shouldn't necessarily appear on the other. I don't want to see Wraith in the Milky Way any time soon, for example.

Atlantis should be allowed to find its own allies, its own enemies, its own weird little aliens and whatever-all else instead of having to borrow them from "big brother". Stealing ideas or species is bad enough, but stealing both together is shoddy craftsmanship. At least in my opinion.

I still love the show and I hope I always will, but I want Atlantis to retain that uniqueness and differentness that we were promised. I DON'T want it to become SG-1 Redux.

golfbooy
July 23rd, 2005, 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by PsychoPenguin:
You know, I don't know if it's because I'm in a mood today or something, but that statement sounds awfully patronizing to me. It's like I have this vision of you patting a DVD of "Atlantis" and saying, "Nice show. But don't stray too far from big brother. You won't do very well." But again, maybe I'm in a mood...

Yes, "SGA" has benefited from the fact that BW and Co. already knew how to run a sci-fi show. I'm sure that's what you meant to imply there...
Isn't that what I implied? I think you're really reading what you want into that statement. You agree it's the truth, but also say that it's patronizing. So, for you, the truth is patronizing. Can't help you there. I certainly don't think that's the case.

And I think this is because you're not invested in the characters of "SGA." Just like I'm not invested in the characters of "SG1." As I think you and I have discussed before, this will impact the way we both view both shows, since nice character moments can salvage an "SGA" ep for me the same way they can for you with "SG1.
I wouldn't say that I'm not invested in the characters, just that I'm not invested to the same extent as with SG-1. Some grab my attention more than others. And, though I admit to not recalling our previous discussion on the mattter, I don't doubt its existence. Anyway, I'm willing to have it again, though you seem to have summed things up nicely.

I've been nice and not gone over to the "SG1" threads and posted my opinion of "Avalon" thus far.
And I'm the one being patronizing? Please, don't stay away from the Avalon thread for anyone's account other than your own. There's plenty of more negative posts than the one I made here (which I didn't think was especially derisive) floating about over there.

PsychoPenguin
July 23rd, 2005, 07:54 PM
I still love the show and I hope I always will, but I want Atlantis to retain that uniqueness and differentness that we were promised. I DON'T want it to become SG-1 Redux.

See, I actually agree with this. I love the edginess, the darkness, and I'd actually like to see that grow deeper, not get lightened away with an "SG1" airbrush.

I just don't think we're there yet is all I'm saying. So far the stories and characters still have that "screwed-up" quality that I like to see.

If they were to happen to lose that though, if they were suddenly to become more heroic and put together like "SG1"...well, I'm sure I can find other things to do with my Friday nights. :)

PsychoPenguin
July 23rd, 2005, 08:00 PM
And I'm the one being patronizing? Please, don't stay away from the Avalon thread for anyone's account other than your own. There's plenty of more negative posts than the one I made here (which I didn't think was especially derisive) floating about over there.

Like I said, I may be in a mood today. There are some touchy people out there today, and I've had run-in with a couple of them. I think they left me with the feeling that there are quite a few "SG1" fans out there who feel like their show's being threatened or something. And they see "SGA" just as much of a threat as "BSG."

Hence, I've tried to avoid stating my opinion in "their" threads. I came over here to debate intelligently, not get into emotionally based verbal fistfights.

golfbooy
July 23rd, 2005, 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by ShadowMaat:
Atlantis is supposed to be NEW and DIFFERENT. For the most part, it is. But then you have them cannibalizing stuff from SG-1 and even carrying over certain elements/characters.
While I find this to very rarely be the case, I have to say that I agree entirely with just about everything you've said in this post. I expect some carry over elements; it's only natural. Hermiod works for me, so far. He's different enough from Thor that his presence, at least so far, is quite welcome on Atlantis. And it fits with our ever-blossoming relationship with the Asgard.

But, like you, I'm a bit dismayed by the spoilers for Critical Mass. A while back I toyed with the idea of starting a thread about this topic, but ultimately decided I'd just get blasted by ardent Atlantis defenders. But, I really do wonder whether or not the audience is put off by such large scale "borrowing". I mean, I was floored when I read a Peter DeLuise comment calling Intruder Atlantis' version of Entity. That's just not what I want to see.

I don't want to see Wraith in the Milky Way any time soon, for example.
Well said. The Wraith should never make it to Earth. I wasn't too pleased when this basic goal for the Wraith was laid out in Rising.

...I want Atlantis to retain that uniqueness and differentness that we were promised. I DON'T want it to become SG-1 Redux.
Again, well said. Really, I'm not down on Atlantis. I'm liking both shows. I'm certainly liking Atlantis moreso since Before I Sleep. Spoilers can be misleading, and an old idea can turn out great. I'm just saying, for me, there is no Theory of Unification for the SG-1 and Atlantis storylines. Sharing elements is one thing, but I don't want the two shows to turn into a two hour block of the same show. Although, that possibility does have certain advantages. Hmmm.

But still nope.

GatetheWay
July 23rd, 2005, 08:55 PM
Did anyone see the little yellow stuffed duck (or was it a chick?) in one of the F-302s. I thought it was adorible. Wonder what the story is behind it. :D
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s2/202/016388.jpg

Excali5033
July 23rd, 2005, 08:58 PM
Attentive props people? Most pilots have good luck charms and photos (seen in another shot) in their aircraft.

GatetheWay
July 23rd, 2005, 09:25 PM
You're right. I didn't notice the pictures before you mentioned them. It's pretty cool that they are that detailed with their props.
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s2/202/016392.jpg

SaharaGate
July 23rd, 2005, 09:27 PM
Coming in late to share first thoughts...

Atlantis is (obviously) a damn cool show. Loved tons of things, especially Hermiod..too funny!

There were some lovely and very funny moments between Shep & Mckay (which are always my favourite).

The Shep-Weir interaction was layed on far too thick for my liking, coming so soon after last week. They weren't this close last season were they?? Where did the civilian-military tension go? I know Caldwell provides this now, but I really liked that dynamic between them cause it complicates things.

Also (and I don't think it's just me?) they are obviously pushing the Mckay-Beckett (McBeckett if you will) in preparation for...well you either know what I'm talking about or you don't.

I do have to say though that although McKay has (and remains) my fav right from the beginning....right from before atlantis had aired really ... I don't like what they're doing with him this year.

Last year he was the perfect balance of snarky, fearful, brilliant, self-centred childish genius. Now there seems too much slapstick humour around him. He seems to be the butt of more jokes and is displaying much more fearfulness than he did last season.

I know that sounds strange, but last season we saw him grow beyond his fears...they were still there, but he displayed heroism and always got the job done.

Just seems they might be going a little over the top with him now...

I felt the same thing last week too because while he wasn't acting out of character necessarily, his behaviour was incongruously self-centred and fearful in comparison with Siege 1 &2.

Blue007
July 24th, 2005, 12:00 AM
Haven't had time before now to respond...the show was really good, I enjoyed it so much.
I can not tell you how hard I laughed at Mckay when he and Shep were waiting to be zapped out of the chamber they were lock in. Oh my lord that was a great moment. I got a little lost a few times when they would go from present day and flash back....but all in all I loved the show.

White Knight
July 24th, 2005, 02:49 AM
Loved the episode. It was Entity with a twist of Battlestar Galactica (computer networks + science fiction → bad news + good story), presented in the unique Atlantis way.
I think I liked the character developments more than the actual story. For starters, in one fell swoop TPTB established that Sheppard was an Air Force pilot (not an Army pilot like many were suggesting on other threads), rectified SG-1's and Atlantis' timelines, and told us that Sheppard has been promoted (and was really happy about it!). Then there was the beginings of the Atlantis team/Caldwell conflict that's bound to become a major plot point. And Weir sticking up for Sheppard in front of (the apparently power-hungry) Caldwell and Landry. Its good to see the team sticking up for one another. My opinion of General Landry has dropped a couple of notches, though.
Hermoid...what can I say about Hermoid? This is what happens when an incredibly advanced alien race decides that Jack O'Neill if the greatest thing since yellow foodstuff cubes ("How perceptive of you."). And Sheppard's reaction was priceless...he is the personification of everyone who came into Atlantis without the foggiest notion of what SG-1 was about ("Is he supposed to be naked like that?).
As for the Weir/Simon story...glad its over. And I'm intrigued by the fact that now, besides her obligatory reports to Stargate Command and the Pentagon, Weir has no reason to return to Earth. Puts her in the same boat as Sheppard.

Not like a shippy boat ot anything, but like their situation; they've got no close relatives or friends or spouses back on Earth...that doesn't mean they should get together, though!...aww, fudgepops.

Easter Lily
July 24th, 2005, 03:01 AM
See, I agree with that statement...and yet at the same time I don't. In my own earlier post, I mentioned that this plot was a bit of a retread. (Although I disagree about "Before I Sleep." There's a difference between containing similiar elements and containing a similar plot.) However, I felt that this episode was an improvement on the "SG1" episode utilizing the same device. The difference, as I also stated earlier, was in the execution, with the "Atlantis" characters and universe giving it a much more interesting spin. The lines and characters moments made the old plot more attractive and intriguing. Again, I like some character development with my plot, and I feel like "Atlantis" consistently does a better job of that than "SG1" does.
Penguin, I can definitely see where you're coming from. This is the reason why I don't think SGA will ever be just a clone of SG-1... Maybe I'm just not that much of a fan of SG-1... and all past episodes are a blur in my mind... or perhaps I'm just completely deluded about the freshness of the SGA. If so, I'm happy to stay deluded... ;)
The biggest reason why I think Atlantis is a completely different show rests with its characters. As long as the stories revolve around that rag tag expedition team, I think it will maintain its own identity. I love our Atlantis screw-ups and the trouble they seem to get themselves into from one occasion to the next. Let's face it, with uber smart Carter, did we really think that she wouldn't find some way out of it that wouldn't cause any subsequent fallout? Entity must've been one of those forgettable episodes for me because I really didn't remember it... but I don't know that I would've cared all that much even if I did...

Also, the other thing I like about Atlantis is that sense of continuity between episodes. OK, it's a virus like in the other show.. but at least it's a Wraith virus... The Wraith we've crossed swords with and will most probably turn up again. The entity in Entity was just that... an entity...



To me, the Wraith aren't that easily boiled down. They are ruthless and single-minded, yes, but that doesn't necessarily compute to make them stupid as well. They've shown a fair amount of technological sophistication. It's their emotional and cultural development that can't seem to move past their need to cultivate humans as food.
From reading ahead to some of the minor spoilers of future episodes, I'm actually beginning to find the Wraith a little intriguing... Can't say I was in any way taken with their initial entry as villain of the week but now they might actually be something to sink one's teeth into... :p

LoveYouBaby
July 24th, 2005, 03:47 AM
Did anyone see the little yellow stuffed duck (or was it a chick?) in one of the F-302s. I thought it was adorible. Wonder what the story is behind it. :D


Yeah, I recall saying, "Awwww... isn't that cute. In a middle of a chaos, there's an toy ducky, how cute"

LOL :D

White Knight
July 24th, 2005, 03:52 AM
To me, the Wraith aren't that easily boiled down. They are ruthless and single-minded, yes, but that doesn't necessarily compute to make them stupid as well. They've shown a fair amount of technological sophistication. It's their emotional and cultural development that can't seem to move past their need to cultivate humans as food.From reading ahead to some of the minor spoilers of future episodes, I'm actually beginning to find the Wraith a little intriguing... Can't say I was in any way taken with their initial entry as villain of the week but now they might actually be something to sink one's teeth into... :pI believe that was the intent of this episode, as well as a large part of Season 2; to show that the Wraith are more than the vampiric space-demons thet we saw in Season 1. The discovery of a Wraith virus was the thing that made me sit up and go "Hang on, if the Wraith can make a virus A.I. to infect out computers, what else don't we know about thier capablilities, and what else can they do to hurt us?"
Looking forward to seeing Sheppard and his team on recon missions to find out exactly what the Wraith's capabilities are, as opposed to the standard fare of either "Lets see what we can find in Atlantis today" or "You're a human civilisation and you've got what to defeat the Wraith?"
Not to diss Season 1 or anything. It was heaps good, much better then SG-1 Season 8.

Carbito
July 24th, 2005, 03:58 AM
Also, what was up with those "memory" things? Where they suppose to be a HDD or something? What ever they are why would the most advanced fighters Earth has have their primary memory storage connected via a old serial cable?!? ;)

LoveYouBaby
July 24th, 2005, 04:08 AM
Hey, it looked hi-tech!


ROFL! :D

keppiezbt
July 24th, 2005, 04:52 AM
good ep. not the best but still good. love mckay, love hermy....so funny....crap indeed

Sela
July 24th, 2005, 05:04 AM
Hermoid...what can I say about Hermoid? This is what happens when an incredibly advanced alien race decides that Jack O'Neill if the greatest thing since yellow foodstuff cubes ("How perceptive of you."). And Sheppard's reaction was priceless...he is the personification of everyone who came into Atlantis without the foggiest notion of what SG-1 was about ("Is he supposed to be naked like that?).
I think we tend to forget what our reactions would be if we were to encounter a real alien face to face for the first time. I like Shep's reaction. I mean, who knows if he's suppose to be nekked or if he's making a political statement about working with humans. He doesn't seem to be too crazy about it, so maybe Hermi was mooning us all to show his displeasure. :D LOL! I hope they keep up the Shep / Hermi conflict. It's wonderfully funny.

knocknashee
July 24th, 2005, 05:19 AM
This was a great ep!!! Last week and this week the eps didn't just solve one problem - it was ongoing issues that had to be addressed! Once one problem is taken care of, there's another one that has to be solved! :)

Shep was awesome!! From his little boy excitement at his promotion, to his saving of the day....again. He and Rodney are just an awesome team - this time around Shep solved the problem and implemented the solution. He's smart and he's quick on his feet! Rodney talks fast, but needs Shep around to bounce his ideas off of - they're great together!! And Caldwell is gonna realize at some point that Atlantis has become a somewhat well-oiled machine - teamwork baby!!! :)

Joe Flanigan is terrific - he can totally carry a scene!! Loved him in the 302 when he was flying away waiting to be beamed. He was tense but trusted in his team to get him home. And loved him with Hermiod especially knowing how Joe hates to work with the puppet!! ;) :p

So far this season ROCKS!!

I can't wait to see all the confrontation that's going to come out of this triangle...

I don't think Joe said he hated the puppet, more that it was weird acting along side one...

QuiGonJohn
July 24th, 2005, 06:14 AM
This was a good episode as well. I liked how Wier exerted her influence in getting the team she wanted.

not so ancient
July 24th, 2005, 07:10 AM
Ok, I haven't really commented too much on Atlantis, certainly not to the extent that I blither on about SG-1. That said, I continue to be impressed by the quality production that Brad Wright puts together week in, week out. Atlantis has certainly reaped a multitude of benefits from it's parent show.

Atlantis got a great running start from SG-1. But Atlantis does not depend on SG-1 any longer.


However, Intruder is another in a pattern of recent episodes that seem to borrow too heavily, at least for me, from SG-1. If Before I Sleep was Brief Candle, Point of View, and Moebius mixed together and swirled about, then Intruder was an unforgivably huge bit of Entity, Nemesis, and Tangent mixed in the same blender.

That is true only if you're looking at Atlantis through SG-1 lenses, which is exactly what you're doing.

That's your right, but it's my right to think that your view does a disservice to Atlantis.


Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed each and every one of those SG-1 episodes. And, admittedly, I did enjoy Intruder, to an extent. I'm just saying, from a story perspective, it was a little redundant.

Redundant if you (1) immediately recall those SG-1 episodes (2) immediately see the story as not just the same theme, but actually identical.


Now, I fully recognize that it's the same guys writing both shows; I expect there to be some "borrowing". But this just seems blatanly lazy. And no, having McKay mention the events of Entity doesn't make it better. Not only was this a rehash of older SG-1 stuff, but the same damn thing kept happening over and over and over. How many times can you play the same damn card in the same episode? And thank Odin (well, at the very least Hermiod) for those Asgard transporters. Those things are lifesavers, literally.

Despite all of that, my biggest problem with the episode has to be the virus itself. I'm certainly no expert on Atlantis, but I can't recall ever seeing the Wraith presented as technologically inclined enough to resort to something so...so...so...high tech.

Um, the wraith have hyperspace drives, beaming technology, and ships that can survive and function for more than 10k years even crashed. I think I wouldn't be too hasty to dismiss them as dumb little Paclets.


It's usually more, ARRRGGGHH, me kill, me hungry. I mean, let's face it, they're not exactly the Aschen, are they? Joking aside, in just the last episode they resorted to kamikaze attacks against the city of Atlantis. After all, why not try downloading the virus to Atlantis? We've got enough Earth tech there to infect the city, right? To go from such crude, yet admittedly effective, tactics to something so Machiavellian over the course of one episode is a bit hard to swallow.

Uh huh. Well. Moving on.


Nonetheless, I choked it down. And I'm glad I did.

Are you?


The reward was a good bit of character development, mostly for Dr. Weir. She's really been great this season so far. She's been so good in the last two episodes that I'd gladly trade Beau Bridge's General Landry for Torri Higginson's Dr. Weir in a heartbeat. In general, I really don't think that Atlantis has much over SG-1, but she's got way more going for her as a character than Landry does. Oh well, can't have it all.

Of course, you've seen Weir for 22 episodes now, and Landry for only two, so the comparison is entirely fair.


As for the Simon stuff, well, fans are gonna see what they want to see. And, that's just what fans have been asking for from TPTB--ambiguity. Of course, they weren't too ambiguous with the shippy overtones of Sheppard's and Weir's late night coffee rendezvous, so what do I know?

God, it's just so unbelievably romantically shippy and just like a damned Harlequin Romance novel that two people didn't know the other was up late, happened to run each each other, have coffee and chat. My goodness, it's just so sugar sweet romance. Quick, get the insulin.


And, what's up with the writing of McKay? As many have pointed out already, he seems to be rapidly devovling into the Felger persona that SG-1 scuttled (dear God, let him be scuttled) back in season seven.

McKay is really not at all like Felger. Of course, if you see Atlantis as nothing more than a blurry mimeograph of SG-1, then everything about it has to be limited to what you've seen in SG-1. That's a failure of your imagination, not the show itself.


McKay's always been a difficult character to place in an appropriate context, at least as far as my tastes go, but this year he's just been a clown.

Yeah. Clown. Right. Okay, moving on.


And I'm not talking Feste here. Rodney's perspicacity seems to be a rather selective trait. Give me Beckett or Zelenka any day. Still, we're only two episodes in; though, the spoilers from Duet already have me cringing.

I'm shattered. My tears could fill an ocean. How can we go on? ::: rends garments, douses self in ashes :::


In the end, for me, Intruder was a thoroughly enjoyable, if forgettable, episode of Atlantis.

If that's what you think of as 'enjoyable' I cringe to think of what you hate.


Bring on Runner, where I hope some more substantial events take place.

Just a suggestion here: save some time and just rewatch SG-1 episodes, since that's all you see.

MartoufMarty
July 24th, 2005, 07:52 AM
I liked this episode.

Rodney cracks me up.

And I was waiting for Rodney to realize this was like the Entity at the SGC.

And what's with Teyla sounding like an office assitant? That made me kind of cringe.

Heh. And the guy that was sucked out the air-lock played that Tok'ra that got killed by the Ashrak in the SG-1 episode Alliegance back in Season 6... :)

What made me kind of sad was that they didn't have any flashbacks to what Rodney was doing when he was on Earth :(

golfbooy
July 24th, 2005, 08:04 AM
Why am I not surprised to see this response? Again, not so ancient, your need to try to invalidate my own opinion simply says more about you and how you feel about Atlantis than anything I could have written. Where does your need for everyone to absolutely enjoy every single aspect of the show come from? And what exactly is your objection to a dissenting opinion being expressed?

Disagreements are one thing, discussion would be welcome, but you simply resort to attacking me rather than refuting what I say. Can you offer no better defense of Atlantis? And no, that is not an invitation for you to continue to ramble on about how unfair, prejudiced, and (at least in your mind) wrong my thoughts on Intruder are.

And please, don't delude yourself into thinking that my appreciation for SG-1 extends as far as your apparently undying, irresolute, oft-expressed love of every single aspect of Atlantis. I've taken more than my fair share of digs at SG-1 for what I percieve as missteps. And yes, all shows have them, even Atlantis. Ultimately, I can't grasp why you seem to be constantly ashamed of Atalantis' origins.

Either way, next time, spare me your petulant, immature, and, let's face it, woefully inadequate personal attacks. You're not going to change my opinion of Atlantis, and I was never trying to change yours.

ShadowMaat
July 24th, 2005, 08:30 AM
I suggest doing what I did, golfy, and putting him on ignore. ;)

An exchange of opinions/ideas is what this forum is all about. Nowhere in the rules does it say that complaints and dissenting opinions are not allowed.

The fact that some feel the need to personally attack others over comments posted on a bboard dedicated to a piece of fiction is disappointing, but not terribly surprising.

I have and always will speak my mind, even if it means voicing a complaint about a show I otherwise love. If I tried to ignore everything that bugged me and tried to steadfastedly maintain that everything (including the stuff I hate) was rainbows and puppydogs, my head would explode. :P While some might see that as a bonus, I am personally rather attached to my head and like it as is. Although I could really use a haircut... ;)

Anyway, there were some good character development bits in this ep, but I think that the over-all story arc was weak and overly redundant. For the second ep of the season, it was a big disappointment and all the humor in the world can't make up for the lack of a good plot. Not for me, anyway. :)

golfbooy
July 24th, 2005, 08:42 AM
Originally Posted by ShadowMaat:
I suggest doing what I did, golfy, and putting him on ignore.
Ignore function? That little gem had slipped my mind. But now that you mention it, not so ancient does seem to be the perfect candidate, huh?

not so ancient
July 24th, 2005, 09:09 AM
Why am I not surprised to see this response?
Because you've gotten similar responses in the past and you've come to expect it?

Again, not so ancient, your need to try to invalidate my own opinion simply says more about you and how you feel about Atlantis than anything I could have written.
Wrong. I am not trying to invalidate your opinion. I neither said, nor implied, that you don't have a right to your opinion. I simply disagree with your opinions, stated why, and stated my own views. As is my right.

If you require no challenge to your opinions, talk to a mirror. The rest of us have minds of our own.

Also, I would fully expect that my remarks would 'say' something about me. That's practically tautological.

Where does your need for everyone to absolutely enjoy every single aspect of the show come from?
Wrong. I have no such need. I don't require that everyone, or anyone, enjoy every aspect of Atlantis. That is simply false. I don't enjoy everything about it myself. There are many people who more or less dislike Atlantis who express that view every day around here. Sometimes I comment on their observations, sometimes not.

And what exactly is your objection to a dissenting opinion being expressed?
Wrong. I do not object to your opinion existing, or being expressed. You made public remarks, and as such, they're fair game for people saying that they agree, or disagree, or don't understand, or think you're funny, etc.

In this case, I disagreed with it, and see flaws in the premises upon which it is based. This is permitted. Nothing extraordinary or objectionable has happened here.

If you're going to indulge in wild shippy inferences, or snap judgments about characters who have had maybe 7 minutes screentime, then please don't be shocked, shocked! that someone might disagree.

Disagreements are one thing, discussion would be welcome, but you simply resort to attacking me rather than refuting what I say.
Wrong. I did not personally attack you. I disagreed and discussed my reasons for disagreement. In some cases, I was sarcastic.

I did, indeed, refute some things you said, and others, I just dismissed with 'moving on'.

Can you offer no better defense of Atlantis? And no, that is not an invitation for you to continue to ramble on about how unfair, prejudiced, and (at least in your mind) wrong my thoughts on Intruder are.
Atlantis needs no defense. It is, and will continue to be, appreciated by many viewers. I think that viewing Atlantis as merely an extension of SG-1 is unfortunate, said so, and that's that. It doesn't matter whether you're unfair, fair, accurate, wrong, forgiving, critical, etc. of Atlantis. It's only your opinion, but as your opinion, you've got every right to it. The thing is, others have a right to disagree with your opinion. Evidently, this is upsetting to you. That, too, is unfortunate.

And please, don't delude yourself into thinking that my appreciation for SG-1 extends as far as your apparently undying, irresolute, oft-expressed love of every single aspect of Atlantis.

At a minimum, I think you should look up irresolute.

It would also be good if you didn't make false statements.

I've taken more than my fair share of digs at SG-1 for what I percieve as missteps. And yes, all shows have them, even Atlantis. Ultimately, I can't grasp why you seem to be constantly ashamed of Atalantis' origins.

Constantly ashamed of Atlantis' origins? :S

I had to read that three times.

That's .... hilarious. :D Really. Thank you. I may print that out.

Either way, next time, spare me your petulant, immature, and, let's face it, woefully inadequate personal attacks. You're not going to change my opinion of Atlantis, and I was never trying to change yours.
Unless you're writing with a finger of fire on a tablet at Mt. Sinai, I've got every right to disagree with you. Please deal, accordingly.

Your opinions have been expressed. My opinions have been expressed. There is no problem here. Your indignance is noted, and will be taken under advisement.

SGalisa
July 24th, 2005, 09:10 AM
I'll have to post this into 2 parts...
Stargate's music...
...loved the powerful crescendo bit during the last F-302 dogfight sequence... :)

Some of Joel's musical sequences are absolutely beautiful. There's a few favorites from SG-1, and I've heard some of those carried over into SG:A.

One of my favorites is what I've associated with the Jaffa Free music (from SG-1's Reckoning and Threads, heard when Bratac and Teal'c were discussing about the Jaffa finally being freed from the tyranny of the Goa'uld). I'm glad to hear it used in SG:A, because it is a lovely melancholic (mostly minor key) piece that just draws the listener deeper into the plot. It was heard at the beginning of the episode, when "previously seen on Atlantis..." clips were rehashed.

If those of us whom the Sci-Fi channel has jipped out of hearing the THEME intro songs, I for one have tried to adjust to accepting the sometimes seen-

"Previously seen on Atlantis..." (intro) clips

now as being the main *pull* me into the story intro. That and any preview commercials aired during the week. If the old way of showing the ENTIRE program will no longer be there, then until the DVDs come out, this will have to suffice as a meager substitute. (*very deep sigh*)

But sometimes those introductory "previously seen" clips aren't shown at the beginning of an episode; so without any intro pieces, the main intro music that binds the whole enchalata together ends up in limbo. The (associated sort of with) Jaffa Free musical piece is a powerful theme... I hope it stays with both SG programs.

rant: As for the shortened, blink -and it's gone- intro, the original theme music is speeded up in both SG-1 and SG:A. Gosh, that's more like displaying a title advertisement going into a commercial break. And no, I don't feel it's fair that BSG gets to keep their new intro (which definitely has more preview theme clips), especially considering that SG:A and BSG are now *both* in their 2nd Season. Fair is fair, and that isNOT equal treatment. :(

SGalisa
July 24th, 2005, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by Merlin7, at post # 34:
The flying sequence was fantastic. iT's the one Martin Gero was gushing about. It rocked.When the Air Force is engaged in enemy target hunting, that's usually how they fly in formation (they also do such multiple flips, spins and turning displays during air-show purposes), and also engage in tight sideways turns around tight (mountainous terrain) spots {hope that's about right}. Except in this case, it was totally open space and the AI virus on board the F-302 was matching Sheppard's maneuvers to either target it to blow it up, or what?

At first, I thought the AI was attempting lock a bomb target or ram itself into Sheppard's space jet, but when Shep pulled on the brakes, the AI went into self preservation mode and squeaked up and over, instead. I thought it was *cool* that everyone (including Sheppard) initially forgot about the stray, AI infested F-302, and that it was stealthily following the Daedalus.


Originally posted by Elizabeth Bartlett, at post # 44:
Did anyone else notice that the actor who was Narim on SG-1 was also Dr. Weir's husband?Actually, I think he's just her boyfriend, since he never asked for a divorce. Plus, even tho nowadays this might not mean much, they both have different last names: Dr. Elizabeth Weir vs. Dr. Simon Wallace. The impression I got from "Rising" (which the scenes got completely snipped out from the 2nd air date, and after) and "Letters From Pegasus" was that they weren't totally attached by marriage.


Originally posted by Elizabeth Bartlett, at post # 44:
I loved McKay's reaction when they were inside one of the F-302's. He sounded like he's a little claustrophobic.Between that and his potential sunburn, he's just a perpetual worry-wart! :D
I think this is reinforcement proof that he's also highly claustrophobic, since he's already
panicked with a limited supply of oxygen in his spacesuit, and had a bout with some phobia from leaving the puddle jumper at the weapon's station in "Siege," part 1.
;)

Plus, not just when Rodney was inside the F-302 and getting space sick,
"I thought (you said) this thing had inertial dampeners!" :eek:

but also when he *scrunched* down (as already mentioned) for beaming transport -Shep had that irresistible look of-
"McKay... *that* really isn't necessary... McKay! (this is embarrassing!) okay...I don't know you, Rodney (you big baby!)..." :p

Yes, the "McShep" interaction was totally terrific! :D

not so ancient
July 24th, 2005, 09:20 AM
Um, ShadowMaat?

I'm female. Not a 'him.'

I know you're not reading this ;) but maybe someone will nudge you in the ribs.

As long as I'm here, I'll hint to you what GolfBooy said is a gross mischaracterization.

But you can, and will, conveniently ignore that too.

I don't put you on ignore, ShadowMaat, because every time I make a little comment to you, I get lovely Green Jello. And there's always room for Jello! You're missing out! :D

ShadowMaat
July 24th, 2005, 09:24 AM
I think McKay IS a bit claustrophobic. He had the same hyperventilate-y "how much air do I have??" reaction in his space suit in the first part of Siege. ;)

Loved Shep's reaction to it. "You're right. Air IS limited. So don't talk. AT ALL." LOL!

SGalisa
July 24th, 2005, 09:29 AM
So... ShadowMaat,
re: Siege -air supply reinforcement
should I leave my "spoiler" tags in for older eps, or can they be removed? ...or just leave them in anyway, for formatting effect?

Not sure what exactly is the correct protocol on here.
*thanks* :)

knocknashee
July 24th, 2005, 09:35 AM
I think McKay IS a bit claustrophobic. He had the same hyperventilate-y "how much air do I have??" reaction in his space suit in the first part of Siege. ;)

Loved Shep's reaction to it. "You're right. Air IS limited. So don't talk. AT ALL." LOL!

Was it me, or did Rodney seem to find John's last nerve this episode..? He looked really pissed off, to be honest. Normally that scene would have seen a litany of snarks being fired in each direction until someone was caught short. This time John just snapped and Rodney obeyed...it feels a bit weird to be honest...

I honestly don't think anyone else would get away with telling Rodney so plainly, to shut up though...

ShadowMaat
July 24th, 2005, 09:48 AM
So... ShadowMaat,
re: Siege -air supply reinforcement
should I leave my "spoiler" tags in for older eps, or can they be removed? ...or just leave them in anyway, for formatting effect?
Within ep discussion threads, I think it's taken as a given that folks watching S2 have probably seen S1. However, in other parts of the board, it's good to tag things.

Not sure on the protocol for eps earlier in the current season. I think the same rule applies. If you're posting about ep X, chances are you've seen eps U, V, and W, too. ;)

Future eps are another kettle of carp altogether and DO need to be tagged.

Shipperahoy
July 24th, 2005, 09:49 AM
Just a quick reminder that this is a thread to discuss the episode Intruder and not the place to air personal grudges. And while there are a variety of opinions expressed in here lets try to actually debate said opinions and not belittle or disregard them just because you (general you) don't agree with them. Thanks.

Shipperahoy
Gateworld Moderator

SGalisa
July 24th, 2005, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by knocknashee:
Was it me, or did Rodney seem to find John's last nerve this episode..? ...Normally that scene would have seen a litany of snarks being fired in each direction until someone was caught short.Nahhh. I think Shep just took a *huge* advantage of the moment, and found another *great* way to having Rodney shut up. So, Shep sarcastically took advantage of what Rodney said, and just went with it. One of those few moments, Rodney also realizes he can't (or shouldn't) snark anything back.

My husband is that way with his "good" natured friends (of like snarky minds). They snark on each other until one gets the other cornered into running out of snarking back, which usually results in the last person either saying "oouch!" or "oooooO!" ;)

(can't spell it, but the word in fencing pronounced "tu-shay": touchee?) :D

not so ancient
July 24th, 2005, 10:17 AM
(can't spell it, but the word in fencing pronounced "tu-shay": touchee?) :D

Touché.

I had to get into Microsoft Word to find the e with the little accent, and copy and paste it here. I hope the accent is going the right way. I have next to no knowledge of French!

So I'd just say "Ooooouch!" instead of "Touché!" just because I'm lazy.

SmartFox
July 24th, 2005, 10:22 AM
Another great episode but does it bother anyone else when Shep's beamed from the 302 in a sitting position he arrives on the bridge standing?

Yes, it botherd me too.

And i have to add even though practically everyone else has said it. Hermoid was hilarious. "Crap indeed"

And im glad we got to see Dr. Weir with a backbone and sticking it to the man. To often weve seen her just roll over for other people. Mckay was back in full swing. It seemed like i never stopped watching him every friday night and laughing constantly.

joescookiem
July 24th, 2005, 10:22 AM
I loved this episode! Shep and McKay were hilarious: when they were getting ready to be beamed into the hanger bay and McKay scrunched down and the look Shep gave him; when they were holded up in the 302 and Shep holds up his finger to shut McKay up.

I also loved the scene where Shep and Hermiod are looking at each other. I hope there are other interactions throughout the season.

I also loved where Dr. Weir held her own with the men. Especially when she told General Landry that he really didn't want to mess with her.

I was disappointed that they didn't show Shep's promotion ceremony.

IMForeman
July 24th, 2005, 01:12 PM
Great episode. Very enjoyable. I loved McKay's interaction with Hermiod, and his transporter stance was hilarious. I also liked his "Airperson, don't be there." Speaking of which, there sure are some pretty airwomen on the Deadalus.

The scene with John and Aiden's Cousin was nicely handled.

-IMF

TheCorpulent1
July 24th, 2005, 01:47 PM
Touché.

I had to get into Microsoft Word to find the e with the little accent, and copy and paste it here. I hope the accent is going the right way. I have next to no knowledge of French!

So I'd just say "Ooooouch!" instead of "Touché!" just because I'm lazy.
Alt + 1, 3, 0 gives you the accented "e." It's one of the only ASCII codes I've memorized, since the "é" comes up often.

Shep beaming from a sitting position to a standing one was pretty odd. I was hoping they'd have beamed him aboard in the sitting position so that he fell. That would've been funny. Although I suppose they've gotta keep an eye on how many transporter jokes they make, what with McKay's goofy stance and all. Otherwise, they might have to rename SGA to "Fun With Transporters." :D

Harlan
July 24th, 2005, 02:00 PM
I really loved this episode :) ! And Hermiod was so hilarious :D !

By the way, about the "touché" word, may I mention that I have a dedicated button for the letter "é" on my European AZERTY Keyboard :D ROFL ...


Oh, I've got something else to tell ya ! Do you recognize this guy on the Atlantis Recruiting Files (the 'Beckett's short list' scene) ???

http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/7585/bscap9973jp.jpg

That's Peter DeLuise, again :) ! That's not the first time he puts his face on screen. He also appears live, we can see pictures of him in the russian files of the Season 5 Episode "The Tomb", if I remember correctly ;) .

LadyF
July 24th, 2005, 03:05 PM
http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/7585/bscap9973jp.jpg

That's Peter DeLuise, again :) ! That's not the first time he puts his face on screen. He also appears live, we can see pictures of him in the russian files of the Season 5 Episode "The Tomb", if I remember correctly ;) .


I did not catch that. Thanks for info. And Hermiod is hilarious, I want to know what he is saying. It sounds like Asgard cursing ot something to the effect of "these blasted humans...". I especially liked the scene where Sheppard gives him the evil eye and Hermiod gives it right back. LOL!

Also like the flying sequence between the F-302s. Nice work special effects department.

And McKay trying to make himself as compact as possible before they beam into the bay, funny. :)

Easter Lily
July 24th, 2005, 03:13 PM
Oh, I've got something else to tell ya ! Do you recognize this guy on the Atlantis Recruiting Files (the 'Beckett's short list' scene) ???

http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/7585/bscap9973jp.jpg

That's Peter DeLuise, again :) ! That's not the first time he puts his face on screen. He also appears live, we can see pictures of him in the russian files of the Season 5 Episode "The Tomb", if I remember correctly ;) .

That Peter DeLuise... he's certainly taking a leaf out of Hitchcock's book about how to make as many cameos on onscreen as possible. ;)

Salty
July 24th, 2005, 03:22 PM
And what's with Teyla sounding like an office assitant? That made me kind of cringe.




Yeah, I thought the same thing. And she was certainly kissing up to the boss! ;) Interesting that Teyla and Zelenka are left in charge.

greytop
July 24th, 2005, 03:31 PM
someone made a topic about him speaking backwards english, not asgard. Did that happen again?Maybe TPTB wanted that, backwards english, to be the Asgardian language.

My favorite part is when Sheppard and McKay are getting ready to beam into the fighter bay. McKay stance just crack me up when I see that. :D :D

Droops
July 24th, 2005, 06:36 PM
About Weir and Simon . . . .

I feel sorry for Simon, and think he went above and beyond for her. They're supposedly in some deep relationship before she goes to Atlantis the first time. Imagine the conversation. Weir: "Honey, I'm going on a special mission. Not sure when I'll be back, not sure if I'll ever return even. Once in a lifetime opportunity though, so I'm going." Translation: "You're not important enough for me to stay with you."

She even sends a note telling him to move on with life. Then she comes back and expects all to be the same? If I were he, I would have walked away the moment that she first went to Atlantis. Why stick with someone who obviously doesn't put you up high enough in their priorities to stay?

Bah, that whole breakup scene was bad. Weir turning away? Never seen that happen, too melodramatic IMO.

Oh, and BTW . . . . .was that a pokemon character, Psyduck? Or was that a chicken?

Seemed like each 302 had what appeared to be a unique keychain with some fun thing hanging from it. Interesting visual addition to the episode.

The rest was fine IMO, nothing grand but more of a 'getting to know some of the new characters and flesh out the old ones a bit' show.

Sela
July 24th, 2005, 06:48 PM
And what's with Teyla sounding like an office assitant? That made me kind of cringe.
Me, too! What was up with that?!

Traveler Enroute1
July 24th, 2005, 07:22 PM
About Weir and Simon . . . .


She even sends a note telling him to move on with life. Then she comes back and expects all to be the same?
Bah, that whole breakup scene was bad.



I found this scene a little off key, too. I thought Weir released him and had that part of her life settled. To see her actually in [his?] house, setting his table, and expecting...Really? I put it in my own perspective:

After having stung the tight male brass gang and coming up victorious, Weir proceeds to work on the other obstinate male in her life, Simon. But alas, her own determined nature works against her in the realm of [tv] 'ships. "You're the adventurous one, not me." Whoa. The old, steady and steadfast standby (Simon said he and his new love "have known each other a long time.") won this round.

Other than that, I liked the ep. Weir's no-nonsense counterattack at Landry and the military guys was priceless and well done, and sets up future headbutting between her and the Daedulus commander. As mentioned, the cat/mouse/gotcha! space scenes were nicely done, esp. in this mostly ship-bound ep. Yeah, SG1's Entity came to mind, but only superficially. I just love when McKay references anything to do with Samantha Carter! :p

And a grumpy Asgard: who'd a thunk? :D Love it!

ShadowMaat
July 24th, 2005, 07:46 PM
Ya know, I know most/all of TPTB are married, so how come they don't seem to understand how real relationships work?

I still side with Simon in this case. I'm guessing his current girl was probably the one who was there for him as he tried to cope with the "loss" of Weir.

A couple of things... I had assumed that Weir simply landed on Earth and tried to waltz back into Simon's life, expecting to pick up where she left off. That in itself is appallingly arrogant, but the scene went from her going over the candidates with Beckett, finding out that Simon wasn't on the list, and THEN her at Simon's place. So I wonder, did she even bother to check in with him when she got "home"? Or was she too busy with work stuff and figured she'd talk to him on the ride back to Atlantis? That's pretty arrogant, too. Is it ONLY then that she decides to go visit him? And if so, did she even give him a chance to talk about what he'd been up to in her absence, what was going on, silly chitter chatter stuff, or did she launch straight into "WTF is your problem and why aren't you on my list?" It tends to not paint a very pretty picture of her. I hope that's only a matter of "gaps" in our understanding, since we weren't given much to go on with them.

If she DID take the time to catch up with him and he failed to mention the new girlfriend, that would make the ground a little more even, but like many other niggly little things, that's a scene we'll never know. *sigh*

Easter Lily
July 24th, 2005, 07:51 PM
I'm reposting this here from another thread...

Personally, I don't think either Simon or Weir come up smelling like roses in this sorry saga... and to me that's interesting... and realistic

Neither seemed to me to rank the relationship very highly in their lists of priorities so why prolong the inevitable? I'm not usually an advocate for couples breaking up (even for television) but frankly speaking I didn't see a lot of commitment to begin with.
I'm beginning to feel that Weir could be an interesting character but I do think that she was a bit naive... or deluded perhaps to think that she could pick up where they had left off after she left without telling him that she was taking off and going to another galaxy. I gather from Before I Sleep that they have had a bit of a history and perhaps he was used to her globetrotting lifestyle... but she had gone off for a year without so much as a proper goodbye and leaves a message telling him to get on with his life. Well, apparently he did. His mistake, however, is not in promptly informing her that there is no status quo. That he had moved on.

That said, I do understand that when someone has been away on a life threatening experience that most of us will never go through, they have a overwhelming feeling of dislocation and displacement. It's bad enough to go to a new place never knowing if you will ever return but to be be constantly fighting for your own life? Compared to the experiences that they've been through, home seems like paradise. For them time stands still... for those that they've left behind... life goes on... but when those who have gone, return, they have a strong desire to cling on to some vestige of the life they left behind to remain. It isn't realistc... just human...
Counterculture shock is very real for expatriates and immigrants... something she talks about with Sheppard in the cafeteria. Weir's been silly, Simon's been silly but guess what... they acting like real people... now that's interesting...

Traveler Enroute1
July 24th, 2005, 07:58 PM
A couple of things... I had assumed that Weir simply landed on Earth and tried to waltz back into Simon's life, expecting to pick up where she left off.
If she DID take the time to catch up with him and he failed to mention the new girlfriend, that would make the ground a little more even, but like many other niggly little things, that's a scene we'll never know. *sigh*

Well said, ShadowMaat. I first thought there was a scene missing/cut that had that necessary tidbit of communication between Weir and Simon. Then I figured the writers were going to just let us fill in the blanks, which fall heavily on an overly confident (your word, "arrogant" fits, too) Weir. While just a small part of the episode, this scene was done well by Torri and I felt her pain (the song, "Send in the clowns" comes to mind). Character wise it didn't fit for me, yet it was memorable.

No sweat. Weir will need to be focussed on that disappointed, almost-the-military-commander-of Atlantis. Boy, does he sound miffed! :p

Traveler Enroute1
July 24th, 2005, 08:02 PM
Nice counter-point, Easter Lily. :)

Sela
July 24th, 2005, 08:16 PM
After watching the episode twice again this weekend, I'm beginning to wonder if there is someone new in Simon's life or if he just said it to get Weir off his back. In the first scene with them together, he's cooking for them and keeps trying to tell her he needs more time. When he's talking about responsibilities, it would have been the perfect opening for him to tell her about this other woman, but he doesn't. Weir wouldn't let it go, which is interesting seeing how she just came from a meeting where she pushed a bunch of the big guys around and got what she wanted. It was as if she forgot where she was and who she was talking to.

When she realized that Simon wasn't caving that easily so she tried another angle with black lace and candle light - he wasn't having that either. That's when he said there was someone else and it stopped her cold in her tracks. Makes me wonder if there really was someone new in his life or if it was his way to back her permanently off. After all, technically, Weir dumped Simon when she took off without a word, knowing she might never come back. If she could get clearance for a video tape goodbye, she could have told him in person. Then when the next time Simon hears from Weir, she told him to move on and it probably threw him for a bigger loop. Maybe that's all he could take. Maybe he thinks that she had moved onto someone else while at Atlantis. Maybe mention John Sheppard's name one too many times? Just a few thoughts....;)

GatetheWay
July 24th, 2005, 10:42 PM
And what's with Teyla sounding like an office assitant? That made me kind of cringe
My exact thoughts were: "My, hasn't Teyla become quite the little secretary."
I thought they would of put someone in charge who knew more about Earth and it's people aka someone FROM Earth. If someone talked to Teyla in Earth slang she wouldn't understand it. It's like saying Weir could sub for Teyla in being the leader of the Athosians while Teyla is away. Doesn't make much sense.

the dancer of spaz
July 25th, 2005, 12:13 AM
I'm digging space. I like their special effects, and I love the idea of seeing more to come!

McKay, as always, is awesome. You gotta love Hewlett.

Hermiod was... creepy as all get out (just like all of the Asgard race), but hilarious and a refreshing version of his other, more docile family members.

John's dramatic, dark, pensive looks were great for fade-outs into commercials. :P My sister and I got a kick out of those moments, because they happened SOOO much! :P

Beckett could do absolutely anything - as could McKay and Shep, for that matter - and I would love it. I was glad to see him in this ep. :D

Two beefs: I feel like they're writing Elizabeth's character the same way many people thought they wrote Sam in S7: Her praises of John were so enthusiastic, almost to the point of sounding more personal than professional (i.e. S7's "Heroes"). While I agreed with Sam and I agree with Elizabeth, it's kinda hard to get away from that underlying... suspicion that there's more being said WITHOUT the words... :o

I like Elizabeth a lot, and I like her as the leader of the expedition. I also don't feel like her professional discretion should be called into question, because we've seen what she can do in a crisis. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that she doesn't come across to all the other characters (like Caldwell and Landry) as someone who is perhaps harboring feelings or pining after John. That kind of behavior, I think, is a mistake and a bit of a disservice to the character. When they're sitting and talking around mugs of coffee - if it must occur - then let the ship roll. But when Elizabeth is dealing with Atlantis-related matters with General Landry & Co., she needs to get that Commander hat, not the Friend/Perhaps Something More hat.

TPTB may not write lines that address ship between any characters on this show, but I'm not buying the concept that absolutely NO ship is being inferred, because some of this is just a little too much for simple friendship. Then again, maybe those Shweirs are having an effect on me... :D If it wasn't for the fact that Weir gets shipped with everyone, I would be really concerned. ;)

I thought it was odd that Teyla wasn't in a lot of this episode, but it makes perfect sense. She had no business on Earth. Also, when it comes to some basic, friendly interaction between these two characters, I'm with Toaster in hoping that we see something tangible between Teyla and Elizabeth. This ending did not cut it, IMO. I feel like, if Shep/Beckett/McKay had started to talk to her there, she would have been all ears. And that's a bit of a shame. :o

Nessva
July 25th, 2005, 11:21 AM
Although I enjoyed this episode, it did encompass the thing I sometimes get annoyed with on Atlantis:

The storyline. I know, Rodney said it, "There was an incident similar to this..." but to me, these half-similar storylines bug me. Yes, they're well done, usually just with elements of the story the exact way it was on SG1, but I'm pick and it does grate on my nerves.

I didn't really understand why Elizabeth was so shocked that Simon had met someone else - I saw that one coming a mile off.

As for Teyla coming across as an office assitant - I don't think it was so much the lines as the way they were said.

I wonder if we'll ever get to see more detail on Ford's family background.

Space battles etc were cool to see.

ShadowMaat
July 25th, 2005, 12:18 PM
Just because you TELL us you're ripping off something doesn't make it OK.

NotANumber
July 25th, 2005, 01:19 PM
I enjoyed the episode, but there were a few things that I feel the need to nitpick...

Why did the entire senior staff have to go to Earth? Weir picked the original team for the Atlantis expedition, why couldn't she have picked the newbies as well? I was surprised that Shep wasn't back in Pegasus leading the search for Ford; that scene with Ford's cousin seemed pointless and ultimately created for the purposes of making it seem like he had a reason for going. We've no idea why McKay was there, and aside from picking new doctors Beckett seemed to have taken over the job as the Daedalus' Chief Medical Officer.

McKay is one of my favourite characters, but did his whinging throughout this episode really annoy anyone else? It's like the producers have hit the reset button on all of his development throughout season one. And that scene with Lindstrom and the air lock could have been done better. Didn't Rodney know the fella's first name?

And why didn't Sheppard and McKay do anything to protect their eyes, and skin too, from the star in the F302? I supposed you could argue the same thing about Caldwell, but the Daedalus does have shields to protect it from different kinds of radiation.

And speaking of Caldwell, are they trying to make him out as some kind of power-hungry pain in the neck? This is what I got from a few articles on GW before the season started, but personally I didn't see that here at all. It seemed like he might have been Landry's choice to become the military commander but accepted that wasn't going to happen after Weir stood up for Sheppard. It didn't look like there were any problems between him and Shep or Weir, with the exception of the scene at the start where Caldwell (rightly or wrongly) asks Weir to respect the chain of command.

Anyway, it definitely had its good points but it wasn't perfect.

the dancer of spaz
July 25th, 2005, 01:56 PM
McKay's whining is totally within character, IMO. He's the perfect cross between the wuss and the hero, because even after all that, he actually wanted to fly the freaking ship! :D His whining was annoying, but I tend to enjoy it when McKay is annoying, so... :P

I think the senior officers needed to go back to Earth so that they could all meet with the President, the JCs and Landry. Still, I wonder what the wisdom of taking ALL of the senior staff was. If the Wraith had decided to check out Atlantis, who the heck would've made the command decisions? Some green Captain? Somehow I don't think it would have - or could have - been Teyla, despite her new secretarial duties... :S

I think John's heroics at the end kinda proved to Caldwell that he deserves the job. Caldwell's ego and pride and... other things... just might get in the way of him admitting it anytime soon, though. Still, he cares about his people and he does care about doing the right thing. Caldwell, just like the past two Colonels who've been in charge, judged John right off the bat based on his past record. Until they saw him in action, they had no idea what kinda man he was. I'm hoping that Caldwell comes around, because I like Mitch Pilleggi. TH is right: He's a hunk-a-hunk of burning love. ;)

I'm surprised they had Landry so steadfastly on Caldwell's side, though - especially considering Jack trusts her and the freakin' President trusts her. It kinda made him look like the antagonist with an agenda, which is disturbing considering he's supposed to be a good guy in SG-1... I wonder if they'll ever explain his behavior in this episode at a later time...

Atlantis_Man
July 25th, 2005, 02:02 PM
Hermy was great, maybe they should call him Hermy now rather than Hermiod, Crap Indeed!

Anyway I thought some of the effects spoiled the viewing, for example, the decompression of that guy with the hand,
the X302 fight scene, could have been better without all the camera turns (making me sick) and that god awful sounds, i was hating the sound of Wraith Darts and thier motor lawn mower enginne but i would prefer that over the high pitch squeeling of the formula one cars

the story line was great, mainly the flash backs of earth, brought the action down a bit and focused a fair share on the characters and the emtional and inter personal relations.

felt the continous reboot thing was tedious, although with the gradual progression and that you can follow McKay's (and others) line of thinking through the episode as they tried get rid of the virus kinda got involved and made you feel like you understood and could be there yourself working with him.

Nice to see more of the Daedelus,

other than that great !
theres my 4 dollars and 2 cents

ToasterOnFire
July 25th, 2005, 02:13 PM
Why did the entire senior staff have to go to Earth? Weir picked the original team for the Atlantis expedition, why couldn't she have picked the newbies as well? I was surprised that Shep wasn't back in Pegasus leading the search for Ford; that scene with Ford's cousin seemed pointless and ultimately created for the purposes of making it seem like he had a reason for going. We've no idea why McKay was there, and aside from picking new doctors Beckett seemed to have taken over the job as the Daedalus' Chief Medical Officer.
Good point. I also thought it was odd that all the higher-ups left Atlantis for weeks (months?). It was doubly odd that Shep went too, both because he's the leading military guy on Atlantis and one would think he's want to keep an eye on things there, and also because of Ford. The only reasons why I can see Shep going are:

-He is/was/is again the head military guy on Atlantis, and as such needed to pick more military team members.

-He was going to meet with SGC/other military personnel/the pres to talk about what happened on Atlantis. One would only assume such discussions would involve a thorough chewing-out regarding the insubordination in Hot Zone. Of course, giving him a promotion afterwards (and really only because Weir insisted) probably made it seem like a slap on the wrist. Looks like Shep got away scot-free while Weir had to pick up the pieces.

-He's the hero of the show. He has to go everywhere or the SGA as we know it could fall apart. :rolleyes:

joasia
July 25th, 2005, 02:15 PM
One thing still bothers me - why didn't the Wraith use the very basic test: dialing the Atlantis Stargate? Is it possible that they do not know the address? I do not think so. They probably do know it, but the shield will not let them go through. OK, so the Wraith will not get though that way, but if the wormhole opens they will know that the Stargate still works... And I would not think it could survive a nuclear blast.

the dancer of spaz
July 25th, 2005, 02:27 PM
One thing still bothers me - why didn't the Wraith use the very basic test: dialing the Atlantis Stargate? Is it possible that they do not know the address? I do not think so. They probably do know it, but the shield will not let them go through. OK, so the Wraith will not get though that way, but if the wormhole opens they will know that the Stargate still works... And I would not think it could survive a nuclear blast.

I'm pretty sure a Stargate could survive a blast like that, which is why episodes like "A Matter of Time" had to end the way that they did. I think.

Hmmm... :cool:

NotANumber
July 25th, 2005, 02:49 PM
One thing still bothers me - why didn't the Wraith use the very basic test: dialing the Atlantis Stargate? Is it possible that they do not know the address? I do not think so. They probably do know it, but the shield will not let them go through. OK, so the Wraith will not get though that way, but if the wormhole opens they will know that the Stargate still works... And I would not think it could survive a nuclear blast.
I don't know. Stargates have been able to survive plenty of trauma before (in A Matter of Time the off-world one was able to last quite a while against the black hole and the Earth gate survived the bomb detonation, and in Exodus the gate was able to last at least a few minutes inside the star).

But anyway, Teyla had convinced the Wraith that they were about to abandon Atlantis. And even if the Wraith tried to send through a few Darts, they could have interpreted the ships being destroyed by the shield as them being instantaneously crushed by the water pressure at the bottom of the Atlantean ocean.

NotANumber
July 25th, 2005, 02:56 PM
I think John's heroics at the end kinda proved to Caldwell that he deserves the job. Caldwell's ego and pride and... other things... just might get in the way of him admitting it anytime soon, though. Still, he cares about his people and he does care about doing the right thing. Caldwell, just like the past two Colonels who've been in charge, judged John right off the bat based on his past record. Until they saw him in action, they had no idea what kinda man he was. I'm hoping that Caldwell comes around, because I like Mitch Pilleggi. TH is right: He's a hunk-a-hunk of burning love. ;)
Maybe I'm missing something, because I haven't seen Caldwell really give Sheppard any attitude in the way that say Colonel Everett did in the holographic projection room in The Siege II. I don't think he's challenged Shep on his record.

Tok'Ra Hostess
July 25th, 2005, 03:11 PM
Pretty good. It was nice to see a rested MacKay. He remained surprisingly civil throughout the entire episode. :cool: Pity we didn't get a Rodney flashback. Did he seek out his sister? If so, it must have gone well; they only show angsty flashbackies. :p Poor Liz! :(

I missed Novak! I'd have liked to see her in the same room with Rodney. I bet she could play a decent game of chess with him, too. :D

Hermiod did get the chance to do more without Novak around, though. "Crap, indeed!" :D What a great line! :D

I think the only complaint I have about the show is a technical consideration: it would have been much stronger if there had been no "space sound." Music, yes, definately, at times, especially when the two fighters are "dancing" but, also, how cool if Sheppard would have soundlessly taken out the array. But that's just my only real quibble.

Rock on, season two! :D

the dancer of spaz
July 25th, 2005, 03:14 PM
Maybe I'm missing something, because I haven't seen Caldwell really give Sheppard any attitude in the way that say Colonel Everett did in the holographic projection room in The Siege II. I don't think he's challenged Shep on his record.

I thought both he and Landry did so in the flashback of what happened on Earth between Elizabeth, Landry, Caldwell and a bunch of other brass. Caldwell and Landry seemed to think that Sheppard wasn't cut out for the job, and went so far as to challenge his insubordinate attitude - the very thing that Everett and Sumner did when they first met him.

Rather than having the snarky colonels challenge Sheppard, each additional colonel seems to find Weir AND Sheppard to be a collective pain. Caldwell, out of the three, seems to find Weir particularly threatening. He wanted Sheppard's job, and was willing to discuss his moments of insubordination while on Atlantis to get it, despite the fact that Shep did save many, many lives. Now, I'm not excusing Shep's behavior in any way (I actually kinda find it a bit offensive), but he is a good leader. The colonels that keep coming onto the scene seem to be in denial of that fact.

I think something happened on Earth, besides Elizabeth's political threat, that kinda wised Caldwell up to the fact that he wouldn't be getting Sheppard's job.

ShadowMaat
July 25th, 2005, 03:22 PM
Well, all the higher-ups also left in Home, although they didn't get as far as they thought they did, that time. ;)

It seems a little odd that the entire senior staff would abandon ship- er, city, especially so soon after a full-on battle with the Wraith, but it seems to be consistent with the characters' mentalities to do stuff like that.

GeekPride
July 25th, 2005, 06:40 PM
This ep seemed boring and the plot was from an old Stargate SG-1 ep called Entity. I did like the parts where they flashed back to Earth, that seemed kinda original. It was really cool when Weir stood up to the military and was all like "Don't mess with me! Give me what I want or else." and then refused to take any crap from Caldwell. Go Weir!!!

The best parts were definately Hermy-the asgard with a 'tude! "Crap indeed." Who needs Thor? We've got a naked Hermy!

Even though Teyla seemed to do an exellant job of taking care of Atlantis while Weir, Sheppard, Beckett, and Mckay were gone-it seemed a bit irresponisble of the senior staff to all leave at the same time. They were just attacked by the Wraith! Who says the Wraith weren't planing to send a small salvage team to the Atlantis site at a later date just to double, triple, make sure that there wasn't anything left?

gwangung
July 25th, 2005, 07:22 PM
Well, all the higher-ups also left in Home, although they didn't get as far as they thought they did, that time. ;)

It seems a little odd that the entire senior staff would abandon ship- er, city, especially so soon after a full-on battle with the Wraith, but it seems to be consistent with the characters' mentalities to do stuff like that.

I'm curious....with instantaneous travel like a StarGate, what's the tactical disadvantage of not being on-site if there's an attack?

sparklegem
July 25th, 2005, 07:40 PM
And why didn't Sheppard and McKay do anything to protect their eyes, and skin too, from the star in the F302?

What could they have done? They were trapped in the F-302 before they realized they would have to fly in it, so they didn't bring anything with them. Unless you think there was something stored in the F-302 that they didn't use?

I didn't have a problem with Landry, Caldwell, and the others inquiry into a new military leader. Yes, Sheppard is capable and has saved many lives, but on an isolated outpost in another galaxy, one of the most important missions that humanity has ever embarked on, it should be assured that the best possible people are there. For all we know, Caldwell could do a better job as the military leader of Atlantis. We can't know who the best choice would have been, but I think the concern was valid.

And I didn't think McKay was just a clown. He was haughtily interacting with Hermiod and, while he could have been more acerbic, he was shoving past everyone that was blocking his way to instruments or control panels.

ShadowMaat
July 25th, 2005, 08:02 PM
What could they have done? They were trapped in the F-302 before they realized they would have to fly in it, so they didn't bring anything with them.
I think the issue is more with the fact that there WAS no protection. And if you're going to be using ANY craft in space, it had bloody well better have SOME way to protect its occupants from the sun (or star if you have to be nitpicky :P). Polarization is mandatory, especially if you're gonna have a big, open canopy like that. If it's made out of some "magic polymer" that shields you from radiation and keeps your retinas from melting, I think it'd be a good fact to drop in somewhere.

As I said, I don't know a LOT about the subject, but I know that I've read books where people will be in orbit over earth and their faceplates will instantaneously polarize to the max as soon as they turn towards the sun. And that's from a good clip away. I was under the impression that Shep and McKay were a bit closer than that. Close enough for their instrumentation to be affected. They should have been dead long before that point. Or at the very least incapacitated by heat prostration and blindness. :P

I know it seems like a small thing to a lot of people, but it bugs the hell out of me. I wonder how- or why- TPTB overlooked something like that. So that the facts wouldn't get in the way of good storytelling? Well, maybe THEY think it was good storytelling, but I beg to differ. ;) I'm willing to suspend disbelief for some things so I can enjoy the moment, but this isn't one of those moments and it definitely isn't one of those things.

watcher652
July 25th, 2005, 11:42 PM
Wow, 10 pages for this episode already! I'm really slow in responding to this episode. I haven’t read the pages of posts so forgive me if I repeat things or ask questions that have answers already. I just wanted to get all my thoughts down. This running commentary is ridiculously long, I know.

BTW, I liked the episode. Lots of character moments, some action, some humor. I just have an overactive mind when it comes to questions.

- Damn, I miss the opening credits! I so wanted to see Paul McGillion in the credits.
- What was the real reason John couldn’t sleep?
- John is so cute all excited about being promoted. I bet he never thought that would happen.
- John gives Elizabeth a funny look when she says obviously the people whose opinions matter the most thought John deseved to be promoted. John must realize the only person who could possibly be on his side is Elizabeth.
- The senior staff went back to the SGC thru the Gate because Atlantis has the ZPM. But they have to take 18 days to get back on the Daedalus because Earth Gate doesn’t have a ZPM power to send them back. I wonder how long they spent on Earth debriefing, getting supplies and new personnel.
- How did that crewman know Elizabeth and John were in the mess?
- Why is Carson checking out the dead doctor? Doesn’t the Daedalus have its own doctor?
- Is Dr. Monroe one of the new Atlantis crew? He didn’t even get to the Pegasus Galaxy.
- Why is Rodney reviewing what the dead doctor was doing? Doesn’t the Daedalus have its own engineer/head computer technician/whoever?
- Oh look, there’s Garwin Sanford’s name in the credits. I know what that means.
- Loved the flashback with Weir, Landry and Caldwell. What a bad approach Landry took in announcing the possible new military commander. Landry seems to understand the political game being played and seems to admire Elizabeth’s stand. Was that a setup by Landry? Did he disagree with the choice of Caldwell? Landry doesn’t seem too upset that Elizabeth wants John as the military head of Atlantis instead of Caldwell. Caldwell looks justifiable angry. Caldwell was very agreeable with Elizabeth in The Siege 3. That must have been because he was trying to get on her good side since he was sure he was going to have to work closely with her as the new military commander. So they’ve set up the friction that is to come between Elizabeth and Caldwell. Caldwell won’t be getting along with John either, although it really isn’t John’s fault. But Caldwell certainly won’t agree with John’s non-military, seat of the pants ways.
- Interesting that Elizabeth had that “discussion” with John at the end of Hot Zone about John disobeying orders yet seems not to be so upset with it now.
- Is Rodney investigating this murder investigating by himself? What kind of crew does the Daedalus have?
- Rodney seems surprised that Caldwell listened to his advice to drop out of hyperspace. But Caldwell is no fool. Presented with the proper information, he’s does the right thing.
- I know I should have brought this up in the Siege 3 thread, but I wonder if Rodney and Caldwell have a history? Because when Rodney said his first words to the Daedalus, Caldwell responded to Rodney personally without being told it was Rodney speaking. So it seems to me Caldwell recognized Rodney by voice. Maybe there’s something in their personal history to make Rodney surprised that Caldwell would listen to him. I probably just have an overactive imagination.
- Love Hermiod’s attitude! He’s just as snarky as Rodney is. When Hermiod was with Novak, he didn’t seem that way. I wonder if Hemiod’s attitude is the result of having to deal with Rodney? I know we shouldn't expect all the Asgard to act the same. But Hermiod seems to have a lot of attitude. Does Hermiod adapt to whom he has to deal with?
- Sheppard being weirded out by Hermiod was funny. At least Sheppard acts like a normal person when it comes to non-humanoid aliens. He’s been aware of aliens and wormholes and all this stuff for only a year. He hasn’t really seen any non-humanoid looking aliens except for the mist creatures in Home. And thanks for mentioning Hermiod was naked!
- By now, Rodney must think he’s some sort of jinx. It’s a wonder he hasn’t suffered from a breakdown yet. Gaul and Abrams. The 5 scientists in the Hot Zone. Peter Grodin. Now Lindstrom. All of them died either right in front of his eyes or almost in front of his eyes. He must have nightmares.
- Was Lindstrom another new Atlantis expedition member?
- OK, I’ve given up wondering where the Daedalus is hiding its CMO and its Chief Engineer/Head Computer Person. Thanks for tending to Rodney, Carson.
- According to Caldwell it’s been at least 2 months that the Daedalus has been at Atlantis. Did the Atlantis senior members leave thru the wormhole at the same time the Daedalus left for Earth from Atlantis?
- Caldwell gets in a dig about the new personnel. I wonder if Kavanaugh got sent back to Earth? Was Bates still in his coma and sent back, too?
- Ooh. Carson in civvies! (cough, sorry about that).
- Carson is the Chief Surgeon? Is that his title? I though he was the Chief Medical Officer. Surgeon, geneticist, doctor. How can Carson think he’s not qualified?
- Ah, here’s the breakup scene. Oops, not yet.
- Hermiod “How perceptive.” This Asgard definitely has an attitude.
- “Airperson” ?
- “Crap, indeed.” I swear Hermiod is adapting to Rodney.
- Rodney looks like he needs a shave when he’s reporting on the situation to Caldwell, Sheppard and Weir. Doesn’t Rodney ever get a chance to get a full night’s sleep?
- Yes, Sheppard gets to fly! Bright idea to shoot out the transmitter, John. And you must have been studying up on the F-302 when you were back on Earth.
- Why does Rodney brace for impact but Elizabeth doesn’t?
- Hey, Elizabeth can have ideas, too. Use the transport beam. Doesn’t Caldwell know enough about his ship to suggest these things himself?
- Ooh. John in civvies! (cough, sorry about that).
- The flashback John had about Ford was very moving. And let’s add to John’s guilt, shall we?
- Can you move in a transport beam? Because John went from sitting in his ship to standing on the bridge.
- Isn’t that ship still heading for the Wraith? Is that good? Shouldn’t it be shot down? Maybe it's out of range. Some acknowledgement of that would have been nice.
- Elizabeth is getting touchy feely with all her staff. She gives Rodney a little pat on the back as he works on rebooting the Daedalus.
- Rodney is really a genius. Knowing how to reboot the Daedalus is just one of the many things he seems to know.
- Ok, here’s the breakup scene. Simon fesses up that he met someone. That’s fine, Simon. But why didn’t you tell Elizabeth right away instead of stringing her along? She gives you a video good bye, and then you get another video that tells you to move on. So you had permission and you did move on. Who would have blamed you after Elizabeth chickened out the first time in telling you goodbye? You probably met this person before you got the second video and were feeling guilty (I hope). But instead of telling her right away when she first got back, you pretended you were still her boyfriend. You let her think you were considering going to the Pegasus Galaxy. That’s just plain sleazy. Was the stringing along payback for the initial video goodbye? Was the different hair due to a mid life crisis because Elizabeth dumped you instead of the other way around? Or was the different hair because of all the complaints that when you first appeared you looked exactly like a certain SG1 character?
- Rodney remembers a similar situation happening at the SGC. That ought to make happy all those people who complaining about every Atlantis episode is so much like at least 3 SG1 episodes.
- Why is it only Rodney and John taking out the memory modules in the F-302s? Doesn’t anybody else on the Daedalus know these ships? I know the civilians are in lockdown, but what about the Daedalus crew?
- Rodney squishing himself down so he’s a smaller object to transport was funny. And I see he’s taken John’s remark about having bits not transported to heart. Does Rodney really have his hands where I think he does? Rodney in his semi-seated crouch looks like he expects to be transported into one of the ships.
- Rodney seems really surprised that the transport beam worked. Sometimes it doesn’t pay to be a genius and able to think of all the worse case scenarios in a flash.
- What’s that yellow thing in the first ship Rodney’s in? Looks like a personal object. That must mean there are pilots assigned to certain ships. Why isn’t at least one of them helping John and Rodney? Yeah, I know. It’s for the drama. Well, I don’t mind, just bringing it up.
- Rodney leaping up to check if John is working in that ship seemed so Rodney.
- Why does it take so long for John to respond to Caldwell when the bay shield failed? Maybe “Damn, Rodney and I almost died there” got him a little distracted.
- Rodney must really be claustrophobic. This is the third time he’s brought it up. But he doesn’t seem to have problems being in the Puddlejumper (other than in Thirty Eight Minutes) or in an Atlantis transporter. Maybe he only gets claustrophobic in small places where there’s a real possibility of certain doom.
- John tells Rodney to be quiet by pointing his finger in the air. And I love how Rodney did shut up without an argument. For the moment. Amazing, Rodney does listen.
- So there’s that errant ship! Why did everyone, including John, forget about the ship John was in? Did they all assume it was making tracks to the Wraith? John didn’t seem like he suddenly got a brainstorm about it. He just matter of fact-ly realized it.
- Did the rear sensors go offline? Because how did the Daedalus miss that ship shadowing them?
- Great special effects of the F-302s flying thru space. I could really feel the speed.
- John calmly talking to Rodney as he concentrates on destroying the other ship is great. John can multi-task. You can’t shut up Rodney when he’s panicking, so why even try?
- Good shooting, John!
- Why did John pat Rodney on the head for doing great but then tease him about flying the ship?
- Obviously, despite being cramped, Rodney doesn’t mind the flying part of being in the ship since he seemed disappointed that John didn’t let him fly.
- Did Elizabeth leave Teyla in charge of Atlantis when she was away? I wonder how the expedition felt about that. Or the folks on Earth. Teyla isn’t of Earth, would they have a problem with her?
- Nice that Teyla anticipated John’s desire to read the reports about Ford. I’m sure she’s as concerned in finding her lost teammate as John is.
- Teyla has a new top.
- Why is Carson standing at Rodney’s side in the control room while Rodney types at a console instead of making a beeline to the infirmary?
- What is Rodney checking on? Is he running a diagnostic to check for hidden Wraith viruses?
- Looks like Carson has taken a page out of John’s “How to deal with Rodney” book. Just agree with Rodney, it makes life so much easier.
- Do Elizabeth and Teyla have on more eye makeup than they used to?
- Looks like Radek got a haircut.
- Radek said ZeePM, not ZedPM. Somehow I had thought the whole world except the US and a couple of small countries said Zed instead of Zee. Is Rodney the only one stubborn enough to keep on saying ZedPM? Stubborn, hmm, I think that’s a yes.

That was fun! We get a little bit of Earth, some set up for future tensions, and have further proof the Wraith are pretty clever with their tech as well as being life sucking aliens.

ShadowMaat
July 26th, 2005, 03:48 AM
Lots and lots of good questions asked, watcher, but you forgot something a little obvious that answers at least half of them: Atlantis is the greatest, most brilliant, most perfect team in the history of the universe (other than SG-1, of course). They can do absolutely ANYTHING, which is very handy since most of the people around them are so absolutely incompetent it's a wonder they can keep their jobs. ;) So the Daedalus crew is made up of a bunch of idiots, led by an even BIGGER idiot, and that's why the Atlantis team had to take over everything in order to save the day. :rolleyes:

Regarding Simon, I really wish they'd given us a bit more on that, just because it was so... gappy... but I'm going with the idea that Weir never actually gave Simon a chance to explain himself or what he'd been up to and that he was reluctant to bring it up, for whatever reason. Maybe because by holding off, he makes Weir look like the wounded party and the angst and attention is all on her instead of whatever HE suffered through when she left him.

Anyway, work is beckoning. *shudder* I hope today is better than yesterday...

Hatcheter
July 26th, 2005, 04:35 AM
A strange, random thought hit me, going from these two lines at the end of the ep:



Sheppard: "Any word from your offworld contacts?"

Teyla: "We have recieved several intelligence reports, although as of yet there is no news of Lt. Ford."


So, is Teyla now Atlantis' intelligence chief? Maybe she's setting up a network of contacts across the galaxy, to gather info and spread misinformation about the fate of Atlantis.

I've got all sorts of weird and ill-formed plot bunnies coming to mind now.

the dancer of spaz
July 26th, 2005, 09:30 AM
A strange, random thought hit me, going from these two lines at the end of the ep:



Sheppard: "Any word from your offworld contacts?"

Teyla: "We have recieved several intelligence reports, although as of yet there is no news of Lt. Ford."


So, is Teyla now Atlantis' intelligence chief? Maybe she's setting up a network of contacts across the galaxy, to gather info and spread misinformation about the fate of Atlantis.

I've got all sorts of weird and ill-formed plot bunnies coming to mind now.

That'd be nice. Let's hope they're nothing like the Genii.

joasia
July 26th, 2005, 01:10 PM
I don't know. Stargates have been able to survive plenty of trauma before (in A Matter of Time the off-world one was able to last quite a while against the black hole and the Earth gate survived the bomb detonation, and in Exodus the gate was able to last at least a few minutes inside the star).The gravity pull is not a nuclear blast... And IIRC the one sent into a star had some kind of shield added to allow it to last long enough to blow up the star. And we do know that naquadah enchances the power of nuclear explosion.


But anyway, Teyla had convinced the Wraith that they were about to abandon Atlantis. And even if the Wraith tried to send through a few Darts, they could have interpreted the ships being destroyed by the shield as them being instantaneously crushed by the water pressure at the bottom of the Atlantean ocean.They could send some small signalling device... Some little machine that goes PING ;)

But i somehow forgot about Teyla messing with their minds. That could be it. I wonder how soon will they blow their cover... :D

DarkQuee1
July 26th, 2005, 01:18 PM
It was only an OK ep. At least, they acknowledged the "Entity" re-cycle; "Tangent" element went unacknowledged.

One thing I wondered about: why was Weir so upset about Simon? In addition to disappearing for a year without Simon's having any indication that she would ever be back (and in addition to wanting him to drop everything to go to another galaxy), didn't she basically tell him not to wait and to move on in her "Letter"?

greytop
July 26th, 2005, 01:55 PM
I have seen these at the end of the show. Are they new to the RL market and what at they called?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/greytop/Comp1.jpg

NotANumber
July 26th, 2005, 02:08 PM
What could they have done? They were trapped in the F-302 before they realized they would have to fly in it, so they didn't bring anything with them. Unless you think there was something stored in the F-302 that they didn't use?
I could be wrong on this, but I think that everytime we've previously seen someone get into a fighter, their helmet was already in their seats waiting for them. Wouldn't it make sense to have the helmets there so they don't have to carry them to and fro each and every time?


(By the way, I think I've made a booboo that may be rippling through the thread. Is it an F-302 or an X-302? Or do both exist?)

Steve_the_Wraith
July 26th, 2005, 02:25 PM
(By the way, I think I've made a booboo that may be rippling through the thread. Is it an F-302 or an X-302? Or do both exist?)


The X-302 was the prototype fighter from "Redemption"(601)
The F-302's are the production models seen in Atlantis and in "Lost City"(722)

So the X-302 was the fighter from Redemption but all the other fighters are F-302s.

NotANumber
July 26th, 2005, 02:35 PM
The X-302 was the prototype fighter from "Redemption"(601)
The F-302's are the production models seen in Atlantis and in "Lost City"(722)

So the X-302 was the fighter from Redemption but all the other fighters are F-302s.
Thanks for that. I was actually watching Redemption today and it got me thinking about it.

Steve_the_Wraith
July 26th, 2005, 03:05 PM
Thanks for that. I was actually watching Redemption today and it got me thinking about it.

Your welcome.

BTW Sorry if my post seemed abit... loud(I suppose thats the word) it wasn't your post but the whole X-302/F-302 thing has been getting on my nerves recently

Easter Lily
July 26th, 2005, 04:06 PM
One thing I wondered about: why was Weir so upset about Simon? In addition to disappearing for a year without Simon's having any indication that she would ever be back (and in addition to wanting him to drop everything to go to another galaxy), didn't she basically tell him not to wait and to move on in her "Letter"?

Since when do you know human beings to be logical... especially about relationships... ;)

But I've already made a post earlier about this...

the dancer of spaz
July 26th, 2005, 04:20 PM
The franchise just needs to ditch any overt references to ship when it comes to their female characters (Sam, Elizabeth, Teyla, Vala, Janet, Carolyn, etc.), because something always happens and fans wig out. And it's not the female's faults all the time either. :rolleyes:

Either the writers don't even it out on the male counterpart's side, making it seem that much more unrequited and unreciprocated, or they write a scene where the character is either doing something (a) unprofessional or (b) ridiculous. :(

I like ship. I'm a Sam/Jack shipper, I think it's perfectly healthy and normal to ship, and I'm willing to personally ship all of the permutations under the sun for Atlantis - Lord knows there's about 20 of 'em. ;) But I don't need to see it on screen - even when it has to do with Elizabeth and Simon, and ESPECIALLY when TPTB are suggesting that she's got the hots for Sheppard and TH is suggesting that she's got the hots for Caldwell. ;) I just don't want Elizabeth to become the Hussy of Atlantis. :P

And that goes for Teyla, as well. :)

And Vala. ;)

And Dr. Lam.

And something tells me we'll never revisit Sam's love life again. :rolleyes:

Traveler Enroute1
July 26th, 2005, 06:34 PM
;) I just don't want Elizabeth to become the Hussy of Atlantis. :P

And that goes for Teyla, as well. :)

And Vala. ;)

And Dr. Lam.

And something tells me we'll never revisit Sam's love life again. :rolleyes:

Sam's love life returns in Season 10!

Oh, did I say that out loud? :rolleyes: Not a spoiler, just a prediction.

Just sayin'. ;)

BloomGate
July 26th, 2005, 07:59 PM
Overall, I thought it was a well done episode.

However, I have 2 issues that bug me.....

1. Does it weird anyone else out that Narim is Weir's husband? I understand that they have certain actors that they like and they see re-use, but when Narim says "he's met someone", don't you automatically think of Sam? As far as enjoying the episode and "suspending belief", wasn't that a major buzzkill?

2. When Shep throws on the brakes so the other F302 "flies right by", does anyone else have a Top Gun flashback? I suppose it makes sense since nobody in that Galaxy has ever heard of Tom Cruise, but wasn't that a bit cliche? I was waiting for Shep to "buzz the tower" and hear "Take my breath away" by Berlin when Shep and Weir saw each other again in person. ;)

Just some random thoughts........... :)

JanusAncient
July 26th, 2005, 08:23 PM
He isn't Weir's husband, but he was her boyfriend, but her leaving for Atlantis opened up some new options for him. The episode in my opinion was horrific, all except Hermiod that is, but that manuever was cliche, I have seen it, or something similiar done, in multiple movies/shows, but what is there to do, it was already a re-tooled Sg-1 episode, "Tangent" and "Entity."

ShadowMaat
July 26th, 2005, 08:27 PM
There is an official ep discussion thread for Intruder already. Rather than having parallel conversations, it might be best to keep it all in one place. Unless you have a specific reason for separating this out?

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=13901

Vicious
July 26th, 2005, 08:55 PM
i've never seen top gun.

joasia
July 27th, 2005, 12:37 AM
There is an official ep discussion thread for Intruder already. Rather than having parallel conversations, it might be best to keep it all in one place. Unless you have a specific reason for separating this out?
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=13901Erm... Looks like someone joined the two threads, so the one above does not exist anymore. I'd say that it shoud be this one to disappear...

ShadowMaat
July 27th, 2005, 03:43 AM
Erm... Looks like someone joined the two threads, so the one above does not exist anymore. I'd say that it shoud be this one to disappear...
Looks like someone hiccupped and merged it the wrong way. :rolleyes: Stupid Mod parties, getting out of hand again and causing craziness to spill into the forum proper. :P

QuiGonJohn
July 27th, 2005, 05:00 AM
Yes, the official INTRUDER (202) Thread is missing from the EPISODES section!

Tok'Ra Hostess
July 27th, 2005, 05:24 AM
Yes, the official INTRUDER (201) Thread is missing from the EPISODES section!

Ah! Thanks for the heads up. I thought I was having a stroke....
:p


. When Shep throws on the brakes so the other F302 "flies right by", does anyone else have a Top Gun flashback?

Can you actually do that in space??? :S

joasia
July 27th, 2005, 10:05 AM
Yes, the official INTRUDER (201) Thread is missing from the EPISODES section!Everything is back to normal now... :)

NotANumber
July 27th, 2005, 12:09 PM
i've never seen top gun.
You haven't lived until you've seen Top Gun! :P

the dancer of spaz
July 28th, 2005, 12:01 AM
I wondered where my subscription to this thread went... ;)

watcher652
July 28th, 2005, 12:23 AM
Lots and lots of good questions asked, watcher, but you forgot something a little obvious that answers at least half of them: Atlantis is the greatest, most brilliant, most perfect team in the history of the universe (other than SG-1, of course). They can do absolutely ANYTHING, which is very handy since most of the people around them are so absolutely incompetent it's a wonder they can keep their jobs. ;) So the Daedalus crew is made up of a bunch of idiots, led by an even BIGGER idiot, and that's why the Atlantis team had to take over everything in order to save the day. :rolleyes:Well, of course I don't mind that it's John and Rodney and Carson doing their jobs. Watching them is what keeps me coming back. It's Stargate Atlantis, not The Daedalus show. But it just struck me as odd that the 3 of them didn't have counterparts on the ship. I can't really think of a good reason to explain why the Daedalus crew didn't participate more and maybe the writers couldn't either.

You could explain Carson if you imagine Carson is responsible for the Atlantis crew. So the dead Dr. Monroe would be attended by him.

John being John, I would have expected him to know everything about the F-302s. It flys fast, right?

But I was especially amazed at the knowledge Rodney had of the Daedalus' systems. Did he get to see a lot of the tech that made up the ship in the short time he was back on Earth while he wasn't reviewing personnel lists? Did he work on that tech before he was assigned to the Atlantis expedition? Maybe that's where Rodney met Caldwell. Not that he actually knows Caldwell from before. It just seems that way to me.

I forgot to mention that the scene of Lindstrom and Rodney made my jaw drop. What, what, did I just see that? And Rodney looking so horrified at what he just saw and could do nothing about. David Hewlett is simply great in those kinds of scenes. I know Rodney said he "snapped" in The Siege part 3, but I'm waiting to see when these accumulated deaths would make Rodney really snap.

When you join the military, you expect you might see people dies. When you're a medical doctor, you know you might have to deal with death. You don't expect to deal with death if you're an astrophysicist. The death of a star or of a galaxy. Not human death.

entil2001
July 28th, 2005, 06:48 AM
After a season premiere that capped off a three-part action-driven epic, I think the writers were right to focus more on character. Two themes were evident as the episode marched on: “you can’t go home again” and “threats can come from unexpected directions”. A lot of the focus is on Weir and her struggles to keep control of the expedition, now that the political landscape on Earth has changed a bit and there’s more of an SGC presence.

The plot revolves around the potent threat posed by a Wraith virus left dormant in the Daedalus computer network during the previous episode and the efforts to eradicate it. As usual, it takes a while for everyone to recognize the scope of the danger and get a complete picture as to the solution. If there’s one thing that’s predictable in this episode, it’s the fact that if something can go horribly wrong, it will do so without fail and with a few choice snide comments from McKay!

As many have already noted (including the producers!), this is really just a variation on the “Stargate SG-1” episode “Entity”. Thankfully, this wasn’t a case of the writers cribbing old episodes without acknowledging the past. There’s something to be said when the characters recognize that it’s a familiar situation and respond accordingly!

This episode could have easily been centered on the return to Earth and the experiences of the characters. But the writers wisely recognized that this wouldn’t have served the story as well. Switching between the two themes, along with some action scenes to keep the episode moving, kept things from being too pedestrian.

The most obvious “intruder” in this episode is the Wraith virus itself, but that’s only in terms of the big picture. Taken from Weir’s perspective, there’s another, more personal threat: Caldwell. Caldwell has very clear ideas about how the operation should be run from a military perspective, and that’s a battle that Weir thought she had won. Now she’s dealing with someone with a lot less reason to follow her lead, since Caldwell is only weeks away from Earth and his command structure at any given time.

Many feel that the presence of Daedalus will detract from one of the primary elements of the series: the fact that the team has been isolated by the inability to return home to Earth. On the other hand, it’s still not a Sunday drive, and the past two episodes have provided a keen reminder that human technology, even mixed with Asgard enhancements, still doesn’t hold all the answers. Supplies and personnel might be more readily available, but for the most part, it’s just an ongoing source of dramatic conflict, since Weir can no longer assume that her authority remains as strong as it was.

More importantly, this episode makes the case that the team on Atlantis has lost some connection to the world they used to inhabit. Weir’s struggle with Simon and his new life says it all. The team on Atlantis was not unlike a division deployed to foreign front lines, with survival and return far from certain. They held a vision of the world they left behind in their minds, but it was an image of what was. In the meantime, people had to move on, assuming the worst. Weir learns that the hard way with Simon.

Along with getting him his promotion, Weir seems to be recognizing just how important Sheppard has become to her sense of control. Most importantly, Sheppard is part of her team; he’s experienced the same level of adversity, and he understands how the team must interact. He brings his military experience to the table, but he’s not some outside, inexperienced authority. Sheppard is going to be even more important to Weir in the episodes to come, and with Simon out of the picture, who can say what will happen?

There were the usual bits of humor, centered on McKay and Hermiod, which gave the episode its distinctly “Stargate” flavor. Sheppard continues to drop the O'Neill-esque one-liners, and while one continues to wonder if the man has ever owned a comb, he’s still one of the best parts of the series. Thankfully, it looks like Teyla is going to get some screen time in the next episode, since the few moments with her this season have been less than impressive.

Tok'Ra Hostess
July 28th, 2005, 08:09 AM
About the idea that what happens here ties in with Tangent: I didn't see it that way at all. Sure, Sheppard spent a minute in the runaway glider, but that was because the virus had already taken over the navigational controls in it. The runaway glider was simply the "gun on the mantlepiece." It was the key to Sheppard figuring out why MacKay's plan continued to fail.

greytop
July 28th, 2005, 08:54 AM
While rewatching the show, it made me think of this question. How come all suns that they have are yellow? I believe there are diffierent color of suns. Even in scifi, if they want to have the character in trouble with a sun, it is always yellow.

ShadowMaat
July 28th, 2005, 09:01 AM
Good question. There are, in fact, some stars which would be much worse to encounter than the G-type we're familiar with here on Earth.

TheCorpulent1
July 28th, 2005, 04:30 PM
While rewatching the show, it made me think of this question. How come all suns that they have are yellow? I believe there are diffierent color of suns. Even in scifi, if they want to have the character in trouble with a sun, it is always yellow.
Technically, the black hole they encountered on SG-1 once represents another giant star. Only stars over a certain size collapse into black holes.

But yeah, they should feature more types of stars. The only reason they don't, I imagine, is because it'd be more expensive. I'd love an episode built around a red giant that's about to collapse into a white dwarf though.

joasia
July 28th, 2005, 10:38 PM
While rewatching the show, it made me think of this question. How come all suns that they have are yellow? I believe there are diffierent color of suns. Even in scifi, if they want to have the character in trouble with a sun, it is always yellow. The gates link "human-compatible" worlds (see: terraforming pines). In lack of non-yellow suns SG-1 made one themselves in S5E5 (Red Sky) ;)

Ace
July 31st, 2005, 02:34 PM
I haven't seen this mentioned and am starting to wonder if it's just me! If it has been mentioned then I apologize... but did anybody else get a "Top Gun" feeling when Sheppard was in the dog fight with the other F-302...

"I'll hit the brakes and he'll fly right by..." Lt. Pete "Maverick" Mitchell - Top Gun
"Hold on... we're just gonna tap on the brakes here" - Lt. Col. John Sheppard - Atlantis

Did nobody else pick up on this?

Ace

ShadowMaat
July 31st, 2005, 03:30 PM
Did nobody else pick up on this?
Oh, only 90% of the viewing public. ;) The remaining 10% haven't seen the movie, so wouldn't get the reference.

Ace
July 31st, 2005, 05:17 PM
Oh, only 90% of the viewing public. ;) The remaining 10% haven't seen the movie, so wouldn't get the reference.

Ok...good! I hadn't seen anybody else mention it... though to be honest I haven't really *tried* to look

When I was watching that scene... I couldn't believe they stole it from Top Gun. I was actually smiling and thinking to myself... "Hit the brakes and fly right by"

Ace

Beal
August 2nd, 2005, 10:14 AM
This other guy they were going to send to Atlantis before Weir put her foot down... Could they have been talking about Mitchell?

QuiGonJohn
August 2nd, 2005, 12:07 PM
This other guy they were going to send to Atlantis before Weir put her foot down... Could they have been talking about Mitchell?

No. It's pretty obvious they were considering assigning Col. Caldwell to be the senior officer in charge at Atlantis.

Guess he got the Daedalus instead. Of course, he seems to be sticking around Atlantis anyway. But officially, even though he outranks Sheppard, he is in command of the ship, not the forces in the city.

TheCorpulent1
August 2nd, 2005, 12:40 PM
Why would they have been talking about Mitchell in the first place? Mitchell requested a post on SG-1, not Atlantis. Landry'd have to be a huge jerk to pull Mitchell off his dream post in order to head Atlantis' military contingent.

Dr Weir
August 7th, 2005, 05:45 AM
I just saw intruder, I thought it was really good, better than I expected because alot of ppl were saying it was boring. I really liked the scenes where Sheppard was intimidated by the asgard and the action bit near the end with the fighter planes. It wasn't as good as entity but nearly as good, but I couldn't understand why the captain of the ship was so bothered about coming out of hyperdrive when the cloak could be used to disguise the ship from the wraith. That must be possible if one from a puddle jumper can be used to cover atlantis.

Elite Anubis Guard
August 9th, 2005, 04:48 AM
I read the transcript and it sounded like a very interesting and different episode.

*AtlantisFan*
August 9th, 2005, 10:37 AM
Intruder was a great episode. I especially like Hermiod (The Asgard onboard the Deadelus). I loved Sheppards interaction with him. The guy that they were talking about to take the Head military position in Atlantis wasn't Mitchell, it was Caldwell. I'm glad that they promoted Sheppard, I just love his character. McKay was funny in this episode especially when him and Sheppard were being beamed into the Fighter Bay.

ShadowMaat
August 14th, 2005, 06:14 AM
I posted this in another thread, but it occurs to me that it might be more appropriate here.

Let's see if I've got this straight:

* Daedalus is infected with an ALIEN computer virus.
* The virus is sentient.
* The virus manages to infect a completely alien (to it) computer system, even though the systems themselves are probably hybrids of Earth/Asgard tech.
* The virus can be destroyed... by turning all onboard systems off?

Now, I won't pretend to be a computer virus expert, but given what I know about Earth-based viruses:

* Viruses that infect Windows-based computers rarely affect Macs because the two operate on an entirely different source code (as well as a million other little differences).
* Viruses, however virulent, are not intelligent/self-aware.
* Viruses NEVER disappear just because someone turns their computer off. :rolleyes: Ye gods, if it were that simple, viruses wouldn't even be an issue.

In fact, sometimes turning a computer off can make things WORSE. That's why when computers are discovered which are linked to a crime, they are NEVER turned off- because all the data on them (and any possible clues) could be lost if, say, the perpetrator has set up a "bomb" in the system.

If an Earth-based, fairly dumb (generally speaking) computer virus can't be "killed" by shutting down a computer, then why would a super-intelligent, super-adaptible, able to infect tall starships in a single bound computer virus fall victim to it? How stupid can you get?

And how likely is it that not one, but TWO different super-intelligent blah blah blah viruses/entities from two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT alien species would BOTH fall victim to the same idiotic solution?

EDIT: It has been pointed out to me that the crew of the Daedalus didn't just reboot, they wiped everything, reloaded and THEN rebooted. But that still seems too easy. And if it didn't work the first time, if the virus was INTELLIGENT, don't you think it would find a way to save itself from a second attack of the exact same kind? Or at the very least, wouldn't it try and find a way to take the ship with it when it dies?

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 14th, 2005, 06:52 AM
Let's see if I've got this straight:

* Daedalus is infected with an ALIEN computer virus.
* The virus is sentient.

Okay, here's the .02cents worth of a computer nimnull:

Was the virus sentient? I don't recall anyone discussing sentience in Intruder. I could have missed that in the rapid-fire exposition....



* The virus manages to infect a completely alien (to it) computer system, even though the systems themselves are probably hybrids of Earth/Asgard tech.

Well, this is just part of the reality of the whole Stargate universe. Perhaps it's not consistent with real world physics(is that even the right field? :S ) but it is consistent with both series, so, acceptable suspension of disbelief, for me.

Also, the virus was uploaded long before it started to show visible effects on the system. If it wasn't sentient it may have been a smart virus that needed time to learn and adjust. And who knows, maybe advanced civilisations have some kind of universal computer code translator, like the Star Trek Universal (language) Translator.


* The virus can be destroyed... by turning all onboard systems off?

AND rebooting with the unaffected backup operating system. I do distinctly remember Rodney saying that. Each time they shut down they would have restarted with a backup that had not, at any time, been connected to the affected systems. There ought to be a large number of such backups for each system on board.

Uber
August 16th, 2005, 02:48 PM
In Entity, the SGC had assumed that they had been infected with a virus, but it turned out that it was in fact a sentient being sent to destroy them.

However, in this case, we know that the virus was of Wraith origin and I have seen no evidence so far that would back the idea that the Wraith are SO advanced as to be able to create a living entity like that of, well, Entity.

So I don't believe that the virus was sentient as much as I believe it was highly adaptive.

:cool:

Dr Weir
August 16th, 2005, 02:57 PM
In Entity, the SGC had assumed that they had been infected with a virus, but it turned out that it was in fact a sentient being sent to destroy them.

However, in this case, we know that the virus was of Wraith origin and I have seen no evidence so far that would back the idea that the Wraith are SO advanced as to be able to create a living entity like that of, well, Entity.

So I don't believe that the virus was sentient as much as I believe it was highly adaptive.

:cool:
Mckay said the virus had artificial intelligence, but I got the impression from the seige part 3 that the wraith wouldn't be able to come up with something so complex. Maybe it wasn't quite sentient but nearly there or maybe the wraith concentrated efforts on producing this to fight the ancients.

SGalisa
October 1st, 2005, 08:25 PM
Got to see this episode again :)
Nice music in places, tho too short-lived.

One item I wanted to mention earlier was seeing the nice effects of the solar flares on the sun. Not sure if that was all CGI or superimposed. There were other details radiating from the sun that I missed during the first several viewings, as well.

Details... *details*...! ;)

mgbland
October 2nd, 2005, 11:45 AM
Watching that first scene with Weir/Sheppard over late night coffee, hot chocolate, whatever, Something struck me as odd.

Sheppard made the comment of some people never thinking he would make it past captain, and Weir said that those people that's opinions mattered the most thought otherwise.

He went silent for a while, studying her. Then his demeanor changed completely when he asked, "what are you doing up so late." I wonder if he realized she liked him a lot more than she should.

freyr's mother
October 2nd, 2005, 06:09 PM
They're not military so there aren't any regulations getting in between them.

CalmStorm
October 2nd, 2005, 06:15 PM
Watching that first scene with Weir/Sheppard over late night coffee, hot chocolate, whatever, Something struck me as odd.

Sheppard made the comment of some people never thinking he would make it past captain, and Weir said that those people that's opinions mattered the most thought otherwise.

He went silent for a while, studying her. Then his demeanor changed completely when he asked, "what are you doing up so late." I wonder if he realized she liked him a lot more than she should.


I did not see that at all....but it's just because I think he knows that she will do what is necessary to protect her team......she would have done the same if they suggested replacing McKay or Beckett. To me, Shep's look was more just a look of plain realization of what actually happened back at the SGC and that she had a hand in his promotion.

I've not seen any indication from him that he feels Weir likes him more than she should. I think they both care a great deal about each other.....it just tends to show more on Weir's end as he tends to be the one always in trouble. We've seen the looks of genuine concern and the looks of genuine relief in both 'The Storm' and 'The Siege' from Shep where Weir's life was in danger or her position.

mgbland
October 4th, 2005, 02:12 PM
I did not see that at all....but it's just because I think he knows that she will do what is necessary to protect her team......she would have done the same if they suggested replacing McKay or Beckett. To me, Shep's look was more just a look of plain realization of what actually happened back at the SGC and that she had a hand in his promotion.

I've not seen any indication from him that he feels Weir likes him more than she should. I think they both care a great deal about each other.....it just tends to show more on Weir's end as he tends to be the one always in trouble. We've seen the looks of genuine concern and the looks of genuine relief in both 'The Storm' and 'The Siege' from Shep where Weir's life was in danger or her position.

I'm not sure what relationship TPTB are trying to form. But I get the impression that Weir likes Sheppard a lot more than SHE should. I'm not sure if that feeling is mutual. It's obvious that Sheppard cares for her a great deal, but if it's more than friendship he's not aware of it. He's aware that Weir is the person responsible for his promotion, but that's not why he's so protective of her.

CalmStorm
October 4th, 2005, 02:52 PM
I'm not sure what relationship TPTB are trying to form. But I get the impression that Weir likes Sheppard a lot more than SHE should. I'm not sure if that feeling is mutual. It's obvious that Sheppard cares for her a great deal, but if it's more than friendship he's not aware of it. He's aware that Weir is the person responsible for his promotion, but that's not why he's so protective of her.

I'll just have to agree to disagree ;)

SnoggingPicard
October 4th, 2005, 07:21 PM
I'm not sure what relationship TPTB are trying to form. But I get the impression that Weir likes Sheppard a lot more than SHE should. I'm not sure if that feeling is mutual. It's obvious that Sheppard cares for her a great deal, but if it's more than friendship he's not aware of it. He's aware that Weir is the person responsible for his promotion, but that's not why he's so protective of her.

I definitely get the feeling that Weir is developing feelings for Sheppard (if she hasn't already). I think the scene that really convinced me was the awkward observation made by Caldwell in "Conversion". And (don't hate me Shep/Weir fans), I really don't see Shep reciprocating those feelings at all at this point. Granted he's kind of a closed book sometimes, but the way he interacts with Weir doesn't strike me as a guy falling for her. He's protective of her, sure, but he's protective of everyone under his command. I dunno...I just hope the ship situation doesn't get really complicated.

mgbland
October 5th, 2005, 06:29 AM
I definitely get the feeling that Weir is developing feelings for Sheppard (if she hasn't already). I think the scene that really convinced me was the awkward observation made by Caldwell in "Conversion". And (don't hate me Shep/Weir fans), I really don't see Shep reciprocating those feelings at all at this point. Granted he's kind of a closed book sometimes, but the way he interacts with Weir doesn't strike me as a guy falling for her. He's protective of her, sure, but he's protective of everyone under his command. I dunno...I just hope the ship situation doesn't get really complicated.


I think we're on the same page here. I think due to the form that both attacks took in "Conversion," he's upstairs is fighting his downstairs as far as Teyla is concerned. Otherwise, he would have shoved her against the wall like he did to Weir. He does tend to flirt with Weir from time to time, and I haven't noticed any type of flirting with Teyla.

Also, on television, my husband always says that no one can be in a happy romantic relationship. There's more angst when it's drawn out. If they do get into the ship, whether it's with Weir or Teyla, they'd get into the situation of Weir not being able to send Sheppard on dangerous missions, and Sheppard not being able to send Teyla on dangerous missions.

Sheppard also realized that Weir probably had 51% of the decision making power when it came to his promotion, and he KNOWS he can't afford to let anything happen to her. Or, he'll be back on Earth flying helicopters in Antartica. But, that's not the only reason he's protective of Weir. I see a strong relationship between the two of them, but I don't see it headed for the bedroom.