PDA

View Full Version : Who is your favorite villain of all time?



Wrathox
June 16th, 2004, 03:26 PM
From any show, movie, whatever. Whoes the guy (or girl) you found the greatest of all evil.

For me, I think the greatest of all time for some strange reason is Lord Zedd from MMPR. I know it was kiddy stuff but that guy was the coolest.

ShadowMaat
June 16th, 2004, 03:48 PM
I dunno if I'd call him my fave villain of all time, I don't think I could name ANYONE to something as lofty as that, but for a while I thought that Sloane on Alias was a pretty cool villain. He was suave and outwardly friendly-seeming, but utterly cold and ruthless. Then they started making him more caricature-ish and cliched (IMO) and he's kinda blah now.

petzke_42
June 16th, 2004, 10:31 PM
From any show, movie, whatever. Whoes the guy (or girl) you found the greatest of all evil.

For me, I think the greatest of all time for some strange reason is Lord Zedd from MMPR. I know it was kiddy stuff but that guy was the coolest.

Lord Zedd is kickass!

In a related note...have you seen the newest Power Rangers? It's called Dino Thunder. The reason I mention this is because the Green/White Ranger in MMPR, is in the new one, he's the Black Ranger.

Wrathox
June 16th, 2004, 10:40 PM
I watched the first two episodes and thats it. Its nothing like the first few seasons. I wish they would put out all the seasons on DVD, I haven't seen them in like 8 years. I watched it up to Zeo wince it got to PR in spaced I stoped.

Madeleine
June 16th, 2004, 11:34 PM
In B5 Mr Morden was a teriffic baddie. As were the Shadows, right up until the ep in which they made their exit. "Go away, Shadows!" "Okey dokey." Londo was the best though, because you saw his descent, and how easy he found it.

petzke_42
June 17th, 2004, 09:13 AM
I watched the first two episodes and thats it. Its nothing like the first few seasons. I wish they would put out all the seasons on DVD, I haven't seen them in like 8 years. I watched it up to Zeo wince it got to PR in spaced I stoped.

They were pretty crappy for a while. Power Rangers in Space did have Zordon I believe...so thats a plus.

Wrathox
June 17th, 2004, 09:21 AM
I've should have watched all of that season cause it seems to have finally ended everything I watched before (Zordon dying and everyone like Zedd and all turning good). O well.

Jprime
June 17th, 2004, 11:35 AM
Scorpius on Farscape was wicked, he looked super-freaky and there was always the good/bad guy factor. He had good intentions (killing scarrans) but had questionable ways of achieving them.

petzke_42
June 17th, 2004, 06:20 PM
The Joker is awesome.

Jprime
June 17th, 2004, 06:48 PM
Yeah he really freaked me out in the original Batman movie...

Shipperahoy
June 17th, 2004, 08:35 PM
I know it's cliche and not terribly original but I'm going to have to go with Darth Vader because he's timeless. And he was the first villain that I remember that really scared the bejeezus out of me. I wasn't born when Star Wars came out and I: was a very wee child when I first saw it so Darth Vader was incredibly frightening to me.

sgeureka
June 18th, 2004, 03:15 AM
I prefer the villains who are not really villainous. Those are much more terrifying. I like Jack Torrence from "The Shining". Or, although this villain is actually a nice guy, Roy Batty from "Blade Runner".

Vala
June 20th, 2004, 10:31 PM
Scorpius on Farscape was wicked, he looked super-freaky and there was always the good/bad guy factor. He had good intentions (killing scarrans) but had questionable ways of achieving them. Yes me too, I joke it's Ahkna but it's probabaly really Scorpy :D

If I thought of him as a villain which I don't I'd say Q he's just wicked cool.

Jprime
June 21st, 2004, 05:24 AM
Yeah Q was awesome, I really hope they have him on Enterprise sometime...hopefully erasing all thier memories afterwords, so as not to screw up Encounter At Farpoint...

Ill never forget what his "wife" said to Torres when she occused her of having a superiority complex.

"Its not a complex dear, its a fact." :D

Doesnt get much cooler than that, shes arrogant enough to be Tollan!

Come to think of it, Q could be Furlings! It would explain why they abandonned the Alliance and everything!

petzke_42
June 21st, 2004, 11:06 AM
If I thought of him as a villain which I don't I'd say Q he's just wicked cool.

I don't know if giving James Bond cool gadgets counts as villany. :D

Bast
June 21st, 2004, 11:13 AM
Q isnt evil.

The Borg Queen.

Vala
June 21st, 2004, 10:51 PM
I don't know if giving James Bond cool gadgets counts as villany. :D
Yeah, that Q is awesome as well! :D

Greesha
June 22nd, 2004, 04:40 AM
I know it's cliche and not terribly original but I'm going to have to go with Darth Vader because he's timeless. And he was the first villain that I remember that really scared the bejeezus out of me. I wasn't born when Star Wars came out and I: was a very wee child when I first saw it so Darth Vader was incredibly frightening to me.

i'd have to agree, darth vader rocks. he's so much better than darth maul.

Jprime
June 22nd, 2004, 04:56 AM
Darth Maul was a complete joke. Was he a sandperson or something(check the horns)? What was the deal with that ridiculous double-bladed lightsabre?

IM A SUPER-SOLDIER NOW!!!!!!!!! :D

Bagpuss
June 22nd, 2004, 08:41 AM
Yep.My fave villain is Darth Vader too ! :D
Mainly because of his cosmic coolness...and because I adore James Earl Jones who voiced D.V....very talented actor,IMO ! :cool:

ShadowMaat
June 22nd, 2004, 08:48 AM
The Martians from War of the Worlds were pretty freaky. They just come down out of nowhere and start disintegrating people with no warning. Cities topple, fires rage, people screaming in the streets... and we never find out WHY, we never learn anything about them or their motivations. All we have are guesses. I love that. :)

Agent Smith from the Matrix movies was kinda fun. ;)

How about the Visitors from V? The were kind of Aschen-like, proclaiming themselves friends of humanity and acting like they were helping us out when they really had anti-human ulterior motives at work.

petzke_42
June 22nd, 2004, 10:37 AM
I adore James Earl Jones who voiced D.V....very talented actor,IMO ! :cool:

Yeah, his voice is one of the best of all time...along with my very pretty singing voice. :o

Iskandra
June 22nd, 2004, 12:18 PM
Agent Smith from the Matrix movies was kinda fun. ;)

How about the Visitors from V? The were kind of Aschen-like, proclaiming themselves friends of humanity and acting like they were helping us out when they really had anti-human ulterior motives at work.

I found Agent Smith pretty adorable...I have a thing for cool villains...Ba'al is pretty high on my list, too.

Toward the Visitors I have a rather strange feeling....my fellow pupils at school always called me "V", the visitor, because I always insisted on my last name being pronounced correctly with a German "V" (which is in fact an "f" ;)), and as the series was called "V" in Germany...you get the point.

But scariest of all, I have to say...definitely Darth Vader. I was 6 when I watched Star Wars for the first time and he *reall* scared the **** out of me.

But later, in Star Wars 3 (I mean the old one...), the Emperor was even scarier with his lightning stuff....

Jprime
June 22nd, 2004, 05:00 PM
How about the Visitors from V? The were kind of Aschen-like, proclaiming themselves friends of humanity and acting like they were helping us out when they really had anti-human ulterior motives at work.

A bit like the Teolons from Earth:Final Conflict, only more scary that dull and laughable. Also the Lizard thing was quite awesome...
:D

Bogopimp
June 23rd, 2004, 07:28 AM
yeah, darth vader. He just so, a-typical villian, in a very great sort of way. He never lets them go willingly, doesnt have other doing his dirty work. He knows his job, and he does, HIS job! cause hes the villan!

par example!

agent smith: well vader, we meet again
darth vader: you will die, coward *breath menacingly*
agent smith: we shall see

ament smith trys to kick him, and dartj sticks him with his light saber, end of story :)

I wonder if darth vader could beat up superman *hmmm*

Iskandra
June 24th, 2004, 03:25 AM
Sure. He only needs a little cryptonite to throw at him. Green glowy stuff suits Vader anyway, goes well with lightsaber colours....

Stargate Agent
June 24th, 2004, 06:08 PM
One villain i can think of that was great was Trevelyn(006) from James Bond: Goldeneye. Sean Bean did a great job of making him a sarcastic b****. :)

Ancient 1
August 7th, 2004, 09:47 PM
From any show, movie, whatever. Whoes the guy (or girl) you found the greatest of all evil.

For me, I think the greatest of all time for some strange reason is Lord Zedd from MMPR. I know it was kiddy stuff but that guy was the coolest.
We...are...the...Borg......You will be assimilated. Prepare to be boarded....Resistence is futile.
or

III...aamm...Aanuubiss.

or

Luuke...I am your...faatherr.

All good choices (maybe it's that voice.)

Supreme Commander Thor
August 7th, 2004, 09:52 PM
I dunno if I'd call him my fave villain of all time, I don't think I could name ANYONE to something as lofty as that, but for a while I thought that Sloane on Alias was a pretty cool villain. He was suave and outwardly friendly-seeming, but utterly cold and ruthless. Then they started making him more caricature-ish and cliched (IMO) and he's kinda blah now.
Yeah, in his day slone was the guy you LOVED to HATE. That guy really killed me in Alias. In the stargate world it would have to be Kinsey. I have never hated any Goa'uld more than him.

Hohenzollern
August 8th, 2004, 01:25 PM
Mr. Burns.

Well, that's odd ... I've just robbed a man of his livelihood, and yet I feel strangely empty. Tell you what, Smithers - have him beaten to a pulp.

I could crush him like an ant. But it would be too easy. No, revenge is a dish best served cold. I'll bide my time until ... Oh, what the hell. I'll just crush him like an ant.

What good is money if it can't inspire terror in your fellow man?

Just give the great unwashed a pair of oversized breasts and a happy ending, and they'll 'oink' for more every time.

I'm looking for something in an attack dog. One who likes the sweet gamey tang of human flesh. Hmmm, why here's the fellow ... Wiry, fast, firm, proud buttocks. Reminds me of me.

Mr. Burns: This anonymous clan of slack-jawed troglodytes has cost me the election, and yet if I were to have them killed, I would be the one to go to jail. That's democracy for you.
Smithers: You are noble and poetic in defeat, sir.

Crazedwraith
August 8th, 2004, 01:42 PM
Yep.My fave villain is Darth Vader too ! :D
Mainly because of his cosmic coolness...and because I adore James Earl Jones who voiced D.V....very talented actor,IMO ! :cool:
Didn't He do The voice of the orginal "Thor's Hammer" Unas as Well? Now theres a villian you can be proud to play.

AgentX
August 8th, 2004, 09:12 PM
How about the Visitors from V? The were kind of Aschen-like, proclaiming themselves friends of humanity and acting like they were helping us out when they really had anti-human ulterior motives at work.

Yeah, the V visitors were kinda creepy and villain-esque. I liked how they weren't over the top evil, and that is what made them so effective. I'll ignore the whole lizard thing....

My favourite villain though is T1000 from Terminator 2: Judgement Day. He was just relentless.

Vala
August 9th, 2004, 11:49 PM
Another one I like Lilah on Angel :)

Elwe Singollo
August 10th, 2004, 12:06 AM
Another one I like Lilah on Angel :)Oo- thats a good one :) But i like evil black eyes Willow on Buffy :)

Larry
August 10th, 2004, 07:19 AM
Well, I'm going to get into the "Way-Back" Machine, and go clear back into the early 70's. Vincent Price is probably the best villian actor to ever live, at least in my opinion. Two films, The Abominable Dr. Phibes from 1971 and Dr. Phibes Rises Again from 1972 are probably the two scariest movies I've ever seen, and Vincent Price as Dr. Phibes was probably the best and most terrifying villian I've ever seen on large or small screen.

ibwolf
August 10th, 2004, 07:28 AM
I'd definately have to go with B5's Mr. Morden. Ed Wasser just managed to be so creepy in that role.

Notable mentions:
From Star Trek: Q and the Borg (pre Voyager).
Farscape: Both Crais and Scorpious were excellent.
Goldfinger ('No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die').
Darth Vader (a true classic).
Sauron (more so in the book - an 'eye' doesn't work quite as well in a movie).
The alien from Alien
Oh, and the taunting frenchmen from Monty Phyton and the Holy Grail :)

Mio
August 10th, 2004, 08:31 AM
Evil Doctor from Star Trek Voyager: Season 3! :nod:


In all seriousness, favorite villain of ALL TIME?

Anubis.

aschen
August 10th, 2004, 09:00 AM
Favorite villian....uhh.... Hm...

Aschen. :D

Zalax Zal
August 10th, 2004, 02:28 PM
I wouldn't ever consider Darth Vader my favorite villain, because he had some good in him. lol I actually have 2 favorite villains. Emperor Palpatine and Morgoth from the Silmarillion (a book by J. R. R. Tolkien)

Zal

Liv
August 10th, 2004, 02:34 PM
I like Scorpius, from Farscape. He´s devious, but there´s more to him than just the basic 'muahahaha' villain.

Giantevilhead
August 10th, 2004, 06:45 PM
The T-1000 is the best, he totally kicks ass.

Daniel Jackson
August 11th, 2004, 08:31 AM
I'll tell ya both my favorite movie and TV villians. :D

Favorite movie villian: Borg Queen - Star Trek: First Contact
Favorite TV villian: Anubis - Stargate SG-1

Roatbaum
August 11th, 2004, 08:46 AM
I would have to say the big guy from 'The Time Machine' the one played by ,I'm sorry , I can't get the name,( it's the meds) I love this actor, he is so British. And he played this character wonderfully. Afterwhile while I'm washing dishes the name will come to me. If you guys are listening you will hear me say it. See, I just remembered, Jeremey Irons.

Daniel Jackson
August 11th, 2004, 09:21 AM
He's my 2nd favorite movie villian. His official villian title is Uber-Morlock. :D

Chevron 1
August 11th, 2004, 10:13 AM
For me, there are two at the moment:

Auric Goldfinger (The laser torture scene still works, even after all this time.)

The Joker (In any incarnation, he is brilliant...although I am skeptical about this new interpretation with The Batman, the new animated series. Give me Nicholson or the TAS/BB: ROTJ/JL edition any day.)

Ancient 1
August 11th, 2004, 11:52 AM
Well, I'm going to get into the "Way-Back" Machine, and go clear back into the early 70's. Vincent Price is probably the best villian actor to ever live, at least in my opinion. Two films, The Abominable Dr. Phibes from 1971 and Dr. Phibes Rises Again from 1972 are probably the two scariest movies I've ever seen, and Vincent Price as Dr. Phibes was probably the best and most terrifying villian I've ever seen on large or small screen.
No argument here!

Uncle Dick
September 23rd, 2004, 09:35 PM
Gojira. While he seems to save Earth in the latter years more often than not, there's always plenty of fire-breathing destruction and building toppling to make him a threat to the peoples of this planet (or at least Japan).

puddlejumper747
October 22nd, 2004, 12:36 PM
http://www.volny.cz/thematrix/darthmaul/still21-large.jpg
Darth Maul - Sith Apprentice

DownFallAngel
October 22nd, 2004, 02:04 PM
The JOKER! He is so the man. Classic villian.

Recently, Vosk is a very deep and complex villain that I have come to like.

Jprime
October 22nd, 2004, 05:45 PM
Oh man the Joker freaked me out SO bad, when the doctor pulls off the bandages it just about made me wet myself...Almost as bad as in Victor Hugo's The Man Who Laughs (L'homme qui rit).

Frostfox
October 23rd, 2004, 01:12 AM
Dark Phoenix (before all the latter baggage, re clones and Maddy Pryor - folk singers do not comic characters make, Chris) the end of 137 blew me away. I am power and life incarnate.

More recently? Gotta love Garak, not so much of a villan but he does have torturer on his past job list and he has all the best lines. "The truth is usualy just and excuse for a lack of imagination."

Oh, and Cersei Bloody Lannister, I so want GRRM to make the incestious sow burn. Or freeze, or get taken by the Others. Or eaten by a direwolf (if there is a single damn Stark left by the end of the series, I no longer have faith that anyone will survive).

The Corinthian - those teeth for eyeballs scared the crap out of me. Neil Gaiman is a Bad Man.
And The Fury, when Alan Moore first introduced it and it made toast out of our Cap, knocked the socks off me, those stories were nasty. James Jaspers was a good one too.

But I ramble. I think Dark Phoenix wins for me.

Dahak
October 24th, 2004, 12:46 PM
Frostfox I have heard that GRRM will make Cersei a view point character. After how amazingly well Jaime came across in the last book maybe she will have some redeeming qualities. At least she is insanely loyal to her children and very affectionate to her brother, cousin, and whoever else is tall blonde male and related to her.

Frostfox
October 25th, 2004, 01:09 AM
Frostfox I have heard that GRRM will make Cersei a view point character. After how amazingly well Jaime came across in the last book maybe she will have some redeeming qualities. At least she is insanely loyal to her children and very affectionate to her brother, cousin, and whoever else is tall blonde male and related to her.

I know, I hate the man. :o

I was fine just hating Jamie's guts until GRRM made him into such an interesting character. I like hating Cersei!

Still, Dany is a POV character and I don't like her (though I've never quite figured out why) so all is not lost.

Just wish he'd bloody hurry up.

JediTrilobite
October 25th, 2004, 11:13 AM
I've gotta go with Darth Vader too. He's just the badass bad guy.

aussie_gal
October 26th, 2004, 02:22 AM
Theres so mant to choose from, hes not my ultimate badf guy but Darth Vaders a pretty good one. even though he turns good in the end.

Whitster
October 26th, 2004, 04:02 PM
I'd have to go with Crais and Scorpius from Farscape, they were just so
well written as villans, and the length the writers went too with their backstories was amazing, especially Scorpy. I also loved the whole Harvey the neuro-clone plot, it actually started making Scorpius likeable and actually left me wondering who the main protaganist was ment to be by 'Incubator'. It's a shame they never got to make Grayza such a good villian, haven't seen PK Wars yet though.

Hatusu
October 26th, 2004, 09:59 PM
Kahhhhhhhn!

Terok
October 27th, 2004, 01:45 AM
Going to have to say Scorpius from Farscape as well

Janus
October 27th, 2004, 09:59 AM
Going to have to say Scorpius from Farscape as well

Same here, Scropy is a pain in the neck, but he's complicated.
Add Harvey to mix and you have a real problem.

My favourite movie bad guy is still Khan from ST-II.
Especially after the way Kirk flips out on Regula.

GeneralJackO'Neill
October 27th, 2004, 03:00 PM
http://pda.dk/pda-classic/pdalt/pdart/darth-vader.gif
Darth Vader!!

Cpn. Chris(tine) Bowman
October 27th, 2004, 05:17 PM
My fave villain is Bijomaru from the movie "Azumi". He's so completely crazy! Seriously he scares me so badly! And he's such a babe! Seriously guys! Watch Azumi, Bijomaru is the ultimate bad guy! He's hilarious in a oh so psycho way. No matter how hunky he is I would run away.

Second fave is Darth Vader. He's cool.

Watch Azumi, seriously!

GeneralJackO'Neill
October 27th, 2004, 07:29 PM
Is Azumi anime or something?

Starlilica
October 27th, 2004, 07:36 PM
My favorites (acending order):

1. Darth Vader -- Here, little Annie...
2. Naraku -- Stupid spider....
3. Sauron -- See here (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view.php?id=155304) and here (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/88286).
4. Anubis -- Good jackle...
5. Nakago -- Yay evil blond generals!

Wheeeeeeeee, bye!

ReplicatedJedi
December 4th, 2010, 09:09 AM
Movie: General Grievous-Star Wars Episode 3

TV:Daleks-Doctor Who

Video Game: Ganondorf-Legend of Zelda Franchise

Book:Abeloth-Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi Series of books.

jelgate
December 4th, 2010, 09:24 AM
The Female Changeling from DS9. She is so cold and uncaring towards everyone but her own people.

AlbinoMonkeyC
December 4th, 2010, 09:28 AM
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q204/kmbrowneyes/voldemort.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/davemarkowitz/Apophis.jpg

and purely for costume reasons:
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m51/AlbinoMonkeyC/other%20pics/adria.jpg

gotthammer
December 4th, 2010, 10:43 AM
Hmm.
Prior to seeing the 'prequel trilogy' *chokes* of Star Wars, I would have said, with no hesitation, Darth Vader.
Since then, I've seen stuff like Farscape and Stargate and Firefly.
So, I'd now say: Scorpius. :D

I did like that old dude in Firefly (Neeska? Neeshka?), and the operative in Serenity. Stargate: hmm...villain...does the IOA count? :D

AlbinoMonkeyC
December 4th, 2010, 10:50 AM
Hmm.
Prior to seeing the 'prequel trilogy' *chokes* of Star Wars, I would have said, with no hesitation, Darth Vader.
Since then, I've seen stuff like Farscape and Stargate and Firefly.
So, I'd now say: Scorpius. :D

I did like that old dude in Firefly (Neeska? Neeshka?), and the operative in Serenity. Stargate: hmm...villain...does the IOA count? :D

Oops!! Totally forgot about them!! Yeah. :D

kisstian
December 13th, 2010, 03:22 PM
Darth Vader is the most iconic. As a Stargate fan, Anubis is noteworthy. The Joker, Cylons, and Megatron round out my list.

Commander Zelix
December 13th, 2010, 04:26 PM
It's harder than I thought to find great villains even if I watched many sci-fi shows and movies. Most of them don't even have a real single villains (12 Monkeys, Gattaca, etc). The first ones that comes to mind are Dukat in DS9, Annorax in Voyager, Cohagen in Total Recall.

Cold Fuzz
December 13th, 2010, 04:41 PM
It's harder than I thought to find great villains even if I watched many sci-fi shows and movies. Most of them don't even have a real single villains (12 Monkeys, Gattaca, etc). The first ones that comes to mind are Garak in DS9, Annorax in Voyager, Cohagen in Total Recall.

I definitely would not call Garak a villain. After all, he helped all of the main characters through various Dominion War campaigns and embraced a philosophy of freedom for Cardassia. He's very much an anti-hero but definitely not a villain. Dukat and Winn were definitely complex villains on DS9. They went through many evolutions and shades of grey before becoming the prime antagonists.

Commander Zelix
December 13th, 2010, 05:05 PM
I definitely would not call Garak a villain. After all, he helped all of the main characters through various Dominion War campaigns and embraced a philosophy of freedom for Cardassia. He's very much an anti-hero but definitely not a villain. Dukat and Winn were definitely complex villains on DS9. They went through many evolutions and shades of grey before becoming the prime antagonists.
I wrote Garak but I meant Dukat. Garak is a good character but indeed not a villain.

Cold Fuzz
December 13th, 2010, 05:24 PM
I wrote Garak but I meant Dukat. Garak is a good character but indeed not a villain.

Ah, gotcha. ;) DS9's "Waltz" definitely revealed a lot about Dukat's complexity.

As villains, the Shadows from Babylon 5 were also very complex. Their methods were frightening but the way they presented their ultimate intentions made them much more than your regular dark villains from the ancient past.

DigiFluid
December 13th, 2010, 07:12 PM
Darth Maul was a complete joke. Was he a sandperson or something(check the horns)? What was the deal with that ridiculous double-bladed lightsabre?

IM A SUPER-SOLDIER NOW!!!!!!!!! :D
A 6 year old post, clearly woefully unaware of anything in the Star Wars EU :p

Maul was a Zabrak, not a Tusken. And the double-ended saber started as a comic idea that was well-liked enough to make it into a film. Plus it was straight-up cool ;)


Mine in no particular order of preference:
Biff Tannen
Cancer Man
General Chang
His Divine Shadow
Gul Dukat
The Joker (TDK)
Khan
The Master (John Simm, pre-End of Time)
Melkor/Morgoth
Emperor Palpatine
Reavers
Saruman
Scorpius
Shadows / Londo
Xenomorph
Dr. Zaius





Darth Vader would make the list, if the only SW movies made had been ANH and ESB. But since they weren't, I see him as a fallen/tragic hero, not a villain.

Sp!der
December 14th, 2010, 10:29 AM
The Alien still scares the **** out of me, other than the creature, I loved Agent Smith. Only in the first Matrix. As well as Biff from Back to the Future ;)

gotthammer
December 14th, 2010, 10:39 AM
Darth Vader would make the list, if the only SW movies made had been ANH and ESB. But since they weren't, I see him as a fallen/tragic hero, not a villain.

And had those been the only Star Wars movies made (at least w/ him as a major character), he would've remained 'cool'. :D
Sadly... *sighs at the 'prequel trilogy'* :D

"NOOOOOO!"

DigiFluid
December 14th, 2010, 12:03 PM
And had those been the only Star Wars movies made (at least w/ him as a major character), he would've remained 'cool'. :D
Sadly... *sighs at the 'prequel trilogy'* :D

"NOOOOOO!"
Well, not quite what I meant. As of ROTJ, Vader transitioned from a villain to said tragic/fallen hero. I don't think he counts as a villain because of that, not because of the PT mis-steps :)

Anubis345
December 14th, 2010, 04:09 PM
Khalek

jmoz
December 14th, 2010, 04:09 PM
Sephiroth
The Shadow (B5)

Cold Fuzz
December 14th, 2010, 05:27 PM
A 6 year old post, clearly woefully unaware of anything in the Star Wars EU :p

Maul was a Zabrak, not a Tusken. And the double-ended saber started as a comic idea that was well-liked enough to make it into a film. Plus it was straight-up cool ;)


Mine in no particular order of preference:
Biff Tannen
Cancer Man
General Chang
His Divine Shadow
Gul Dukat
The Joker (TDK)
Khan
The Master (John Simm, pre-End of Time)
Melkor/Morgoth
Emperor Palpatine
Reavers
Saruman
Scorpius
Shadows / Londo
Xenomorph
Dr. Zaius





Darth Vader would make the list, if the only SW movies made had been ANH and ESB. But since they weren't, I see him as a fallen/tragic hero, not a villain.

I don't know if I would count Londo as a villain. The Shadows were undoubtedly villains, but I'm not sure about Londo. He was foolish, idiotic, misguided, and malicious at times, but I don't know if I could count him as an actual villain. His intentions were... OK sometimes, but the way to Hell is paved with them. :P

I think anti-hero would be more fitting, especially his change in character after the Shadow War. Ending up with a Drakh Keeper was horribly tragic, especially considering that he created the very future for Centauri Prime and himself that he was hoping to avoid.

MIZA
December 14th, 2010, 05:39 PM
oh this is an easy one, i would have to say from SGA, SGU , SG1 it is the IOA i mean they are the worst.

it is one thing when the bad guys are just evil and you are good, but these guys just jerks and they aren't really on a side they just care about themselves and bureacrats who sit on their butts and argue, while the SG teams do all the hardwork

DigiFluid
December 14th, 2010, 06:00 PM
I don't know if I would count Londo as a villain. The Shadows were undoubtedly villains, but I'm not sure about Londo. He was foolish, idiotic, misguided, and malicious at times, but I don't know if I could count him as an actual villain. His intentions were... OK sometimes, but the way to Hell is paved with them. :P

I think anti-hero would be more fitting, especially his change in character after the Shadow War. Ending up with a Drakh Keeper was horribly tragic, especially considering that he created the very future for Centauri Prime and himself that he was hoping to avoid.
Eh....I can see what you're saying, but the fact that his original intent when talking to Mr. Morden was to utterly subjugate the Narns....

Cold Fuzz
December 14th, 2010, 11:23 PM
Eh....I can see what you're saying, but the fact that his original intent when talking to Mr. Morden was to utterly subjugate the Narns....

True, his desire for power and getting sucked into the Shadows' dreck did make him a big antagonist for a long time. Then again, G'Kar was hoping to "completely and utterly erase [the Centauri]." He also wanted to "blacken their skies, and sow their ground with salt." It took Kosh and a major spiritual epiphany to undo that hatred. Interesting how the two of them, who could both easily be hanged by their intentions, actions, and their words from the past, ended up being quite the heroes in their own ways.

Cold Fuzz
December 14th, 2010, 11:25 PM
oh this is an easy one, i would have to say from SGA, SGU , SG1 it is the IOA i mean they are the worst.

it is one thing when the bad guys are just evil and you are good, but these guys just jerks and they aren't really on a side they just care about themselves and bureacrats who sit on their butts and argue, while the SG teams do all the hardwork

Unfortunately, this is the case with most busybodies, bureaucrats, and any politician. They make the decisions and don't see how their choices trickles down and hurts the people who have to carry out those decisions—and the people on the receiving end of those decisions.

Anubis345
December 15th, 2010, 10:23 AM
Unfortunately, this is the case with most busybodies, bureaucrats, and any politician. They make the decisions and don't see how their choices trickles down and hurts the people who have to carry out those decisions—and the people on the receiving end of those decisions.

Or they already knw the outcome of their descisions and actions and dont really care.

jmoz
December 15th, 2010, 03:42 PM
Or they already knw the outcome of their descisions and actions and dont really care.

And in the end, it's us who gave them that kind of power. A necessary evil.

I sorta liked that guy from Clockwork Orange.

I like Fuzz's rendition of Singing in the Rain in Clockwork Orange too:

Siiiiinging in the rain *groin kick* Just siiiiinging in the rain *double groin kick* What a gloriouuuuuus feeeeeling, just siiiiiinging in the rain

Cold Fuzz
December 15th, 2010, 05:04 PM
And in the end, it's us who gave them that kind of power. A necessary evil.

Ah that's right. We gave those IOA nutballs power. Knowing that makes me all the more bitter.




I sorta liked that guy from Clockwork Orange.

I like Fuzz's rendition of Singing in the Rain in Clockwork Orange too:

Siiiiinging in the rain *groin kick* Just siiiiinging in the rain *double groin kick* What a gloriouuuuuus feeeeeling, just siiiiiinging in the rain

Why thank you. I just have to make sure to wear my jockstrap and protective cup whenever I watch that scene. Who knew watching a movie could be such a high-impact experience?

chrono trigger
December 15th, 2010, 05:14 PM
my fav villian is sephiroth from the final fantasy game series but if you want tv then it would be scorpious from farscape.

kisstian
December 16th, 2010, 11:37 AM
A 6 year old post, clearly woefully unaware of anything in the Star Wars EU :p

Maul was a Zabrak, not a Tusken. And the double-ended saber started as a comic idea that was well-liked enough to make it into a film. Plus it was straight-up cool ;)


Mine in no particular order of preference:
Biff Tannen
Cancer Man
General Chang
His Divine Shadow
Gul Dukat
The Joker (TDK)
Khan
The Master (John Simm, pre-End of Time)
Melkor/Morgoth
Emperor Palpatine
Reavers
Saruman
Scorpius
Shadows / Londo
Xenomorph
Dr. Zaius





Darth Vader would make the list, if the only SW movies made had been ANH and ESB. But since they weren't, I see him as a fallen/tragic hero, not a villain.

I thought about Sauron because LOTR is my all time fave, but I was thinking it was more fantasy than sci fi (which was what my decision was predicated on) and I don't know how many people know who Melkor is, but excellent choice (Tolkien's version of satan, who I guess would be the penultimate villain).

Cold Fuzz
December 17th, 2010, 08:20 PM
I thought about Sauron because LOTR is my all time fave, but I was thinking it was more fantasy than sci fi (which was what my decision was predicated on) and I don't know how many people know who Melkor is, but excellent choice (Tolkien's version of satan, who I guess would be the penultimate villain).

Ah, Melkor. He probably got some twisted pleasure out of how Fëanor branded him as Morgoth, the Dark Lord, the Great Enemy, and all these other epithets.

I know people who have watched the extended edition of Lord of the Rings numerous times but have never read any of the books in Tolkien's legendarium. Their eyes always widen in disbelief when I tell them about how and why Morgoth was so, SO, SO much worse than Sauron could ever be.

jmoz
December 18th, 2010, 09:19 PM
Ah, Melkor. He probably got some twisted pleasure out of how Fëanor branded him as Morgoth, the Dark Lord, the Great Enemy, and all these other epithets.

I know people who have watched the extended edition of Lord of the Rings numerous times but have never read any of the books in Tolkien's legendarium. Their eyes always widen in disbelief when I tell them about how and why Morgoth was so, SO, SO much worse than Sauron could ever be.

damn, now I gotta read Samirillion.

DigiFluid
December 18th, 2010, 09:21 PM
Don't get discouraged by the first 50-100 pages. I know they're dense, but it turns into a (somewhat) more conventional narrative after that. And it's an even grander story than LOTR (IMO).

Cold Fuzz
December 18th, 2010, 10:28 PM
Don't get discouraged by the first 50-100 pages. I know they're dense, but it turns into a (somewhat) more conventional narrative after that. And it's an even grander story than LOTR (IMO).

To see The Silmarillion turned into a miniseries would be a sight to behold: the complete and utter defeat of the Elves, Men, and Dwarves in the Battle of Unnumbered Tears and the misery afterward... and then followed up a century later by Morgoth's spectacular fall in the War of Wrath. Now that I think about it, I don't know if any movie or miniseries could do such stories justice.

DigiFluid
December 18th, 2010, 10:32 PM
I don't know if it ever could, to be honest. I wish it could. I've thought about it a great many times, but the only way it could ever really happen would be something like a chapter by chapter telling. But the budget required would be phenomenal. Prohibitively so :(

Cold Fuzz
December 18th, 2010, 10:42 PM
I don't know if it ever could, to be honest. I wish it could. I've thought about it a great many times, but the only way it could ever really happen would be something like a chapter by chapter telling. But the budget required would be phenomenal. Prohibitively so :(

The more I think about it, the more I lean towards that direction of thinking too. I mean, to get the creation of the world, the Silmarils, Beren & Luthien, Turin... it's all too big. I think a 10 or 12 part HBO miniseries (like Band of Brothers or The Pacific) would be the only possible venue you could get all of that in. The VFX needed would be hideously complex and expensive.

DigiFluid
December 19th, 2010, 09:13 AM
The more I think about it, the more I lean towards that direction of thinking too. I mean, to get the creation of the world, the Silmarils, Beren & Luthien, Turin... it's all too big. I think a 10 or 12 part HBO miniseries (like Band of Brothers or The Pacific) would be the only possible venue you could get all of that in. The VFX needed would be hideously complex and expensive.
:indeed:

Though I'm not even sure a 12-part miniseries would be long enough to cover it all! Unless each part was 2-3 hours :lol:

kisstian
December 19th, 2010, 01:34 PM
The more I think about it, the more I lean towards that direction of thinking too. I mean, to get the creation of the world, the Silmarils, Beren & Luthien, Turin... it's all too big. I think a 10 or 12 part HBO miniseries (like Band of Brothers or The Pacific) would be the only possible venue you could get all of that in. The VFX needed would be hideously complex and expensive.

Brilliant! If only someone would really have the vision to see it through. When I read it, I got the sense that, if The Silmarillion had been written 2000 years ago, it would have changed the landscape of mythology.

the fifth man
December 19th, 2010, 05:11 PM
I would have to go with Scorpius from Farscape. Easy choice for me.

DigiFluid
December 19th, 2010, 05:12 PM
Brilliant! If only someone would really have the vision to see it through. When I read it, I got the sense that, if The Silmarillion had been written 2000 years ago, it would have changed the landscape of mythology.
You're not far off the mark. Tolkien always found it unfortunate that England had no real (origin) mythology of its own, and sought to correct that in writing his legendarium.

Cold Fuzz
December 19th, 2010, 06:40 PM
:indeed:

Though I'm not even sure a 12-part miniseries would be long enough to cover it all! Unless each part was 2-3 hours :lol:

I think that certain parts could be compressed, like when the Elves had relative peace in Beleriand between the Siege of Angband and the Battle of Sudden Flame. The details could be done by voiceover but if it's glossed over too quickly, some important plot details would get lost. There are certain parts that need to be heavily focused on though, even if there's not too much action: like the Noldor's unrest in Valinor because of Morgoth's manipulations, or the whole subplot with Maeglin in Gondolin.

mrscopterdoc
December 19th, 2010, 06:44 PM
I would have to go with Scorpius from Farscape. Easy choice for me.

me too.

Sami_
December 21st, 2010, 06:02 PM
Their eyes always widen in disbelief when I tell them about how and why Morgoth was so, SO, SO much worse than Sauron could ever be.

Sauron is still worse in my opinion, Melkor was no doubt far more powerful and perhaps more evil but Sauron was insidious and coniving which I think in the long run is far more dangerous.

Melkor would torture and kill his enemies, Sauron would corrupt them and force them to serve - I suppose it depends what you see as being the worse of the two.

Cold Fuzz
December 21st, 2010, 07:53 PM
Sauron is still worse in my opinion, Melkor was no doubt far more powerful and perhaps more evil but Sauron was insidious and coniving which I think in the long run is far more dangerous.

Melkor would torture and kill his enemies, Sauron would corrupt them and force them to serve - I suppose it depends what you see as being the worse of the two.

Morgoth was able to sow enough discontent with Fëanor and almost all the Noldor to convince them to turn against the Valar in their own realm. He also effectively deceived Manwë, Nienna, and some of the other Valar into thinking he was "cured" of his evil. Deceiving men into taking fallen rings is one thing. Convincing the Elves and tricking the Valar in their own realm are feats of deceit and connivance Sauron would never have been able to pull off. There's also the fact that he was the one who corrupted Sauron and many of the Ainur to fall into evil in the first place. Morgoth was far, far worse.

Acolyte Of Bli'l'ab
December 21st, 2010, 08:21 PM
Azathoth. Everything else is complete fail in comparison IMO.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa207/embodiedscrew/Azathoth.jpg

Sami_
December 21st, 2010, 08:31 PM
Morgoth was able to sow enough discontent with Fëanor and almost all the Noldor to convince them to turn against the Valar in their own realm. He also effectively deceived Manwë, Nienna, and some of the other Valar into thinking he was "cured" of his evil. Deceiving men into taking fallen rings is one thing. Convincing the Elves and tricking the Valar in their own realm are feats of deceit and connivance Sauron would never have been able to pull off. There's also the fact that he was the one who corrupted Sauron and many of the Ainur to fall into evil in the first place. Morgoth was far, far worse.

Sauron at his peak was more powerful than Morgoth, by the time Melkor was known as Morgoth he had already spent most of his power corrupting Arda.

Melkor > Sauron > Morgoth - at their peak.

Cold Fuzz
December 21st, 2010, 09:29 PM
Sauron at his peak was more powerful than Morgoth, by the time Melkor was known as Morgoth he had already spent most of his power corrupting Arda.

Melkor > Sauron > Morgoth - at their peak.

By whatever name we choose to identify him, the actions committed by Melkor/Morgoth/The Dark Lord/whatever were committed by the same being. This matter of semantics is immaterial to his overall degree of strength, cunning, and malice. Sauron as a Maia was incapable of defeating Huan, who was essentially was a Maia similar to Thorondor. Sauron at his peak (with the Ring) was defeated by Elendil, Gil-galad and their lieutenants. Morgoth/Melkor, on the other hand, was virtually unassailable without substantial help from the Ainur. The only reason I use the name Morgoth is because every character and even Tolkien himself stopped referring to him as Melkor in the narratives after he stole the Silmarils.

One of the biggest points Tolkien was trying to make with all this that Elves, Men, and Dwarves were incapable of defeating Morgoth's kind of evil by themselves (without the Ainur—that is, "divine" aid).

Sami_
December 21st, 2010, 09:46 PM
By whatever name we choose to identify him, the actions committed by Melkor/Morgoth/The Dark Lord/whatever were committed by the same being. This matter of semantics is immaterial to his overall degree of strength, cunning, and malice. Sauron as a Maia was incapable of defeating Huan, who was essentially was a Maia similar to Thorondor. Sauron at his peak (with the Ring) was defeated by Elendil, Gil-galad and their lieutenants. Morgoth/Melkor, on the other hand, was virtually unassailable without substantial help from the Ainur.

One of the biggest points Tolkien was trying to make with all this that Elves, Men, and Dwarves were incapable of defeating Morgoth's kind of evil by themselves (without the Ainur—that is, "divine" aid).

Power of beings in Tolkien's universe are not static and changes with the ages.

Before entering the world Melkor and the other Valar were far far more powerful than any being that ever set foot on Arda but as I said Melkor used up all but a small portion of his power corrupting everything in Arda and as a result in his human form (the form when he does all the feats you talk about) he wasn't nearly as powerful as he had been. Sauron on the other hand gains more and more power throughout the ages and even finds a way to use the power that Melkor used to corrupt Arda.

This isn't anything new though, Tolkien has already clarified all of this in his works, Morgoth had expended all his power in his efforts to destroy the land and life while Sauron consolidated power and only sought to control rather than destroy.

Also Morgoth was far from unassailable, Ungoliant had him at her mercy and he was only freed because he called out to his Balrogs.

Cold Fuzz
December 21st, 2010, 10:05 PM
Power of beings in Tolkien's universe are not static and changes with the ages.

I never claimed it was.


Before entering the world Melkor and the other Valar were far far more powerful than any being that ever set foot on Arda but as I said Melkor used up all but a small portion of his power corrupting everything in Arda and as a result in his human form (the form when he does all the feats you talk about) he wasn't nearly as powerful as he had been. Sauron on the other hand gains more and more power throughout the ages and even finds a way to use the power that Melkor used to corrupt Arda.

Sauron was doing the same thing as well, driving his will into the Orcs. Morgoth/Melkor use much of his will tocontrol the Orcs.


This isn't anything new though, Tolkien has already clarified all of this in his works, Morgoth had expended all his power in his efforts to destroy the land and life while Sauron consolidated power and only sought to control rather than destroy.

Morgoth expended his power in controlling Orcs and other dark beings, much the same way Sauron did. Morgoth was interested in control more than he was interested in destroying. Otherwise, he would have destroyed Middle-earth. Before the War of Wrath, he had virtual control of Middle-earth.


Also Morgoth was far from unassailable, Ungoliant had him at her mercy and he was only freed because he called out to his Balrogs.

In the end Morgoth's realm was unassailable from Elves, Men, and Dwarves. They would never have defeated him themselves. Ungoliant was not a mortal being if she could confound even the Valar. Then again, Tolkien never really clarified what Ungoliant was exactly.

Sami_
December 21st, 2010, 10:07 PM
Well I don't really feel like proving it to you. It seems you are a Tolkien fan so I suggest you read "Morgoth's Ring", it will explain it to you.


Morgoth was interested in control more than he was interested in destroying.

This is such a ridiculous statement, I'm guessing you've only read the silmarillion and even then its kind of ridiculous, Tolkien in his works constantly points out that Morgoth is the ultimate Nihilist - he wants to destroy everything in Arda and if he had been successful against his enemies he would have turned on his servants.

Cold Fuzz
December 21st, 2010, 10:07 PM
Well I don't really feel like proving it to you. It seems you are a Tolkien fan so I suggest you read "Morgoth's Ring", it will explain it to you.

I already have read it.

Sami_
December 21st, 2010, 10:19 PM
I already have read it.

Okay, I'm eating breakfast so let me finish and I'll find my copy of the Silmarillion and read it to you :D

Sami_
December 21st, 2010, 10:40 PM
Sauron was 'greater', effectively, in the Second Age than Morgoth at the end of the First. Why? Because, though he was far smaller by natural stature, he had not yet fallen so low. Eventually he also squandered his power (of being) in the endeavour to gain control of others. But he was not obliged to expend so much of himself. To gain domination over Arda, Morgoth had let most of his being pass into the physical constituents of the Earth - hence all things that were born on Earth and lived on and by it, beasts or plants or incarnate spirits, were liable to be 'stained'. Morgoth at the time of the War of the Jewels had become permanently 'incarnate': for this reason he was afraid, and waged the war almost entirely by means of devices, or of subordinates and dominated creatures. Sauron, however, inherited the 'corruption' of Arda, and only spent his (much more limited) power on the Rings; for it was the creatures of earth, in their minds and wills, that he desired to dominate. In this way Sauron was also wiser than Melkor-Morgoth. Sauron was not a beginner of discord; and he probably knew more of the 'Music' than did Melkor, whose mind had always been filled with his own plans and devices, and gave little attention to other things. The time of Melkor's greatest power, therefore, was in the physical beginnings of the World; a vast demiurgic lust for power and the achievement of his own will and designs, on a great scale. And later after things had become more stable, Melkor was more interested in and capable of dealing with a volcanic eruption, for example, than
with (say) a tree. It is indeed probable that he was simply unaware of the minor or more delicate productions of Yavanna: such as small flowers.* Thus, as 'Morgoth', when Melkor was confronted by the existence of other inhabitants of Arda, with other wills and intelligences, he was enraged by the mere fact of their existence, and his only notion of dealing with them was by physical force, or the fear of it. His sole ultimate object was their destruction.

From Morgoth's Ring The History of Middle-Earth Volume 10.

Cold Fuzz
December 21st, 2010, 11:06 PM
I remember that fragment. I believe that was somewhere from the Myth's Transformed section? I don't remember the exact area. Anyway my original point was about Sauron and Morgoth's overall strength and evil—their entirety of their being and their actions from the beginning to the end. Morgoth had most of his being pass into corrupting and staining the earth and other beings and exerted his will on them. That is control.

And there is: "Sauron, however, inherited the 'corruption' of Arda, and only spent his (much more limited) power on the Rings"

It may be breakfast for you but it is bed time for me with work tomorrow. Good night. ;)

Sami_
December 21st, 2010, 11:13 PM
I remember that fragment. I believe that was somewhere from the Myth's Transformed section? I don't remember the exact area. Anyway my original point was about Sauron and Morgoth's overall strength and evil—their entirety of their being and their actions from the beginning to the end. Morgoth had most of his being pass into corrupting and staining the earth and other beings was to exert his will on them. That is control.

And there is: "Sauron, however, inherited the 'corruption' of Arda, and only spent his (much more limited) power on the Rings"

It may be breakfast for you but it is bed time for me. Good night. ;)

More limited prior to Melkor corrupting everything in Arda which is long before even the First Age, before Sauron is even corrupted by Melkor.

So all the time Sauron was serving as Melkor's Lieutenant Melkor was less powerful than Sauron would be in the Second Age.

And you are still clinging to this notion that Melkor wanted to control rather than destroy? try reading the last line of my quote. Pouring his power into Arda wasn't to control it, it was to destroy it and change it just as he had tried to do to Eru's music.

The whole point of the book being called "Morgoth's Ring" is that he poured his power into Arda just as Sauron poured his power into his ring but the difference is that unlike Saurons ring that he could put on his finger and wield its power Melkor simply lost his power.