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View Full Version : How can the Nox and ancients and asguard, Open the gate without dialing?



beale947
May 24th, 2005, 03:23 PM
The nox, ancients and asguard, can all open the gate without using a DHD or other dialing device, how can they do this. Do they have some sort of interface with the Stargate? Ok the ancients, are basically energy and built the stargates, so they have an excuse, but how do the nox and asguard do it by waving their arms, or pressing a button, like thor does. How?




O'NEILL: O'neill:- "I think we've already established that wouldn't have worked out either. No, it's time for plan B."
Carter:- "We have a Plan B?
O'neill:- "No...but it's time for one."

Lightsabre
May 24th, 2005, 03:31 PM
The nox, ancients and asguard, can all open the gate without using a DHD or other dialing device, how can they do this. Do they have some sort of interface with the Stargate? Ok the ancients, are basically energy and built the stargates, so they have an excuse, but how do the nox and asguard do it by waving their arms, or pressing a button, like thor does. How?




O'NEILL: O'neill:- "I think we've already established that wouldn't have worked out either. No, it's time for plan B."
Carter:- "We have a Plan B?
O'neill:- "No...but it's time for one."


remote dialling.
Perhaps technology embedded in their bodies, like the crystal in the hand of the Asgard who wipes the Ancient Knowledge from O'neill.
We know that Ancient tech has a mental component, maybe asgard and nox have something equivilant??

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 03:37 PM
We have assumed that the Nox have some sort of natural power that allows them, an assortment of powers, such as the healing power and transporting power. It is possible that they can interact directly with technology, through some sort of mind link.

As for the Asgard, they could have some sort of dialing device in another section of the building, or they could have mechanical devices impanted into thier bodies that allow interaction directly with technology, like the Nox only through artifical means.

Owen Macri

spg_1983
May 24th, 2005, 03:38 PM
well we have seen that the ancients designed remote dialers, the puddle jumpers have them, so all the asgard and nox have done is miniaturized them. the only time we have seen wires or cables connect the DHD and the gate was in "48 Hours" when we jury rigged it, so the DHD probably sends some sort of signal instead of being a hardwired connection. if you figure out a way to duplicate sending that signal, instant remote dialer.

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 03:43 PM
We already know how the DHD communicates with the Stargate, it sends electrical impulses to the Stargate, which is relatively simple, so it shouldn't be to hard to create another dialing device, all that you would need to know is what function each electrical impulse activates.

Owen Macri

Freyrs
May 24th, 2005, 03:55 PM
We've also seen that the Asgard/Nox/Ancients can dial out without having the "Kawoosh" effect happen on our end. They must have some knowledge of the gate system that allows them dial without that safeguard in place.

6thMonolith
May 24th, 2005, 04:01 PM
We've seen that device quite a bit. It doesn't create a 'vortex'(fine, Owen, you win :P), and just opens an event horizon with a wave of the hand. It's probably similar to a handheld DHD.

Just a quick question, when have we seen the device used when the planet that the wormhole is connected to is the planet that just dialed in? In other words, the bend in space still might be present, so forming a wormhole might not require a 'vortex'. In The Fifth Race, O'neill was sent back to earth, where he came from. And in 1969, SG-1 was sent back to the planet that they had just dialed(although there is quite a time difference.) Just a thought.

Seastallion
May 24th, 2005, 04:24 PM
Actually the SGC managed to open the gate once without the vortex. When Teal'c was trapped inside the stargate's crystal memory, they had to screw around with the Russian DHD to get the gate to open without the vortex. They did it, and Teal'c stepped out. Destroyed the DHD in the process though... :p The Vortex isn't a necessary occurence for the gate to open, just a usual one. Sort of like a side effect, of normal operation rather than some sort of result to improper usage. The wormhole itself exist almost entirely outside of normal space/time. When the gate shuts off, you can even see the even horizon sort of getting 'sucked' out of normal space. (That white foamy rapids looking thing when the gate shuts off) Apparently, Earth will learn how to do it eventually too... because Cassandra did it in "1969". ;)

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 04:38 PM
That was only one possible future, and just by being there and watching Cassandra open the gate, they changed thier destinies.

However I agree the stargate does not need the vortex to form.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 24th, 2005, 04:52 PM
That was only one possible future, and just by being there and watching Cassandra open the gate, they changed thier destinies.

However I agree the stargate does not need the vortex to form.

Owen Macri

Not really, because they didn't actually change anything. They did exactly what they were supposed to do, and Cassandra didn't tell them anything that could change that possible future (which is a good reason why everything was covered up... so as not to give anything away). All she told them, was that Carter was going to tell her what happened for her to be there to intercept them, and Carter is/was likely to do that anyways. So that possible future, is still very possible. Nothing has happened to suggest it will change. In anycase we don't know enough about that possible future to know if it had been changed.

Hex.FTB.enabled
May 24th, 2005, 04:56 PM
Why can the open the gate without dialing? Because (to paraphrase Jack) they're waaaaay smarter than we are. :) The both have been shown to have technological and/or mental capabilities beyond us, so I think it just falls into that catagory.

Seastallion
May 24th, 2005, 04:56 PM
That was only one possible future, and just by being there and watching Cassandra open the gate, they changed thier destinies.

However I agree the stargate does not need the vortex to form.

Owen Macri

Oops...! Disregard. I thought I had lost my previous post, because my web browser wouldn't show the page. So I thought I had to redo the whole thing. Obviously I was wrong. :p Sorry..!!! :D

Not really. They didn't do anything to change anything, and they didn't know enough about the future to change their actions leading up to it. There is still an extremely good chance that particular future was still going to happen. The gateroom was all covered up, so they couldn't see anything specific to prevent them from actually knowing enough to change the future. All they knew, was that Cassie was old, and she was handling some really advanced hand-do-hicky... :p

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 04:58 PM
The fact still remains that with every desicion that they have made since that episode they have most likley altered that possible future.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 24th, 2005, 05:01 PM
The fact still remains that with every desicion that they have made since that episode they have most likley altered that possible future.

Owen Macri

Not really, because they'd already been there. It was a sort of time loop. The future was sort of assured by the fact that Cassandra had already been told what was going to happen, and she is going to be told precisely the same thing again. I think, this is going to be one of those things we're just going to have to agree to disagee on. :p It really doesn't matter though, because we'll never find out. :D

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 05:09 PM
If they simply wen to the future in "1969" and that was the end the rest of the universe never used time travel or time manipulation again, than yes that future would be certain, however since then they have experienced and seen the effects of time travel more than once. We also can not account for the actions of every being in the universe, there could have been countless time travel incidents that we do not know of.

Owen Macri

beale947
May 25th, 2005, 01:23 PM
Surely, with all the time travelling and altering they do, some advanced race should talk to them about it, i mean, they've changed earth's future in 'Mobieus' and got trapped in a ancient time machine. they saved earth from the aschen, gone forwards, backwards every direction except the present. Surely someone should say something to them. While they can.
And the splash, when the wormhole forms, is the unstable part of the wormhole, stablising out.

O'neill:- "I think we've already established that wouldn't have worked out either. No, it's time for plan B."
Carter:- "We have a plan B?"
O'neill:- "No...but it's time for one."

_Owen_
May 25th, 2005, 01:35 PM
The problem is, by the time they have altered the future or past or present it is to late, to every other race it is normal, even if it is very diffrent from before, the only way someone would be able to tell is if they were able to remain within some kind of dampening field, impervious to the temporal effects of other people and races in the universe, like in the Voyager episode "Year of Hell."

Owen Macri

P-90_177
February 1st, 2006, 01:58 AM
It's probably like a redial feature that the Asgard, Nox, ancients, came up with in order to dial a previous address a bit quicker.

Pasankoon
February 1st, 2006, 02:35 AM
Apparently, Earth will learn how to do it eventually too... because Cassandra did it in "1969". ;)

Not necessaraly. Earth doesn't come up with every technology used by the SGC. Its usually aquired or reverse engineeried from alien technology. The Handheld DHD Cassandra used looked Ancient in design.

Avatar28
February 1st, 2006, 03:41 AM
Surely, with all the time travelling and altering they do, some advanced race should talk to them about it, i mean, they've changed earth's future in 'Mobieus' and got trapped in a ancient time machine. they saved earth from the aschen, gone forwards, backwards every direction except the present. Surely someone should say something to them. While they can.
And the splash, when the wormhole forms, is the unstable part of the wormhole, stablising out.


I'm not so sure. Considering that the splash doesn't occur when some of the other races have used their hand controllers to activate the gate, I think it maybe more likely that the splash is a safety measure, basically there to clear out the area immediately in front of the gate. This would be especially important on the receiving end to make sure there's nothing in front of the gate that the person is going to reintegrate into. I think it works something like this.

The wormhole is established between the two gates. The wormhole itself is microscopic and can't be seen. That's why matter being sent through the gate is converted to energy and transmitted through. To create a wormhole capable of transmitting actual matter would take immense amounts of power and a huge wormhole (say something like the Ori supergate). Okay, so the wormhole connection is established. Each gate then activates the "event horizon" which is actually some sort of field that is responsible for scanning/breaking down matter in the case of the sending end and which reconstructs the matter on the receiving end. It has nothing to do with the wormhole at all. You can see this field forming, it's the foamy thing you see right before the splash and as the wormhole disappears. As the field is formed, the stargate generates the splash which blasts out and clears the area in front of the gate at both ends and also serves to wipe the buffer in the gate as well. The splash doesn't actually come from the wormhole but rather is generated just in front of it. This is why the iris isn't destroyed, it's position just in front of the scanning field puts it exactly where the splash forms and prevents it from occuring.

So, in summary:

Wormhole is established between the two gates.
Deconstruction/Reconstruction fields are activated.
Splash is generated just in front of the fields at both ends to wipe the memory crystals and clear the areas in front of the gate from any debris or other objects.
Object enters the wormhole, is scanned and converted into energy which is sent through the wormhole. The gate at the other end receives it and reconstructs the object.


Basically, it's EXACTLY like the ring transporters except that instead of being sent through space the energy (which you see travelling between rings) is sent through the wormhole to the other end. This also explains why the rings worked through the wormhole in Beachhead.

Pasankoon
February 2nd, 2006, 05:13 AM
Thats a brilliant idea this whole 'clearing out the way thing' I never thought of that. However my understanding is that the primary function of the unstable vortex is to wipe the memory buffer clean. The races which activate the gate without the vortex through hand held devices might wipe the buffer clean by other means. Perhaps by directly tapping into the gates computer systems and cleaning its memory banks.

Avatar28
February 4th, 2006, 02:34 AM
I'm pretty sure the ancients could wipe the crystals clean without the splash. More likely they're both two parts to the same subroutine since they perform similar functions. The first part clears out the crystal and the second clears the physical area in front of the gate. It's probably a part of the dialing process that can't normally be bypassed (at least not without a much greater understanding of the way the gate works). That's why they had to short out that DHD to rescue Teal'c to bypass those controls.

Seastallion
February 4th, 2006, 02:57 AM
Thats a brilliant idea this whole 'clearing out the way thing' I never thought of that. However my understanding is that the primary function of the unstable vortex is to wipe the memory buffer clean. The races which activate the gate without the vortex through hand held devices might wipe the buffer clean by other means. Perhaps by directly tapping into the gates computer systems and cleaning its memory banks.


You know... I never figured the 'splash' had anything to do with gate operations, other than to establish the wormhole. I always figured it was just part of the anchoring process that allowed the wormhole to stay connected to the Gate, on either end. The splash isn't neccessary, but unless there is something stopping it, it will do it. It does indeed also have the side benefit of clearing the front of the gate if necessary, however I think that is more of a side effect than anything, and it is useful enough at times that I suppose the Ancients never felt the need to eliminate the splash from the process.

Somehow, I just really disagree that it has anything to do with wiping the memory crystals clean. Because if that was the case, then when the Nox or the Asgard do it, it would endanger whoever was walking through. I think that is just an automatic function of the gate anytime a wormhole is established, splash or no splash.

Pasankoon
February 4th, 2006, 05:53 AM
That is why I believe that the Nox and the Asgard wipe the buffer clear by other means such as by directly tapping into its computer systems. It was stated in the episode '48 hours' that the primary purpose of the vortex is in fact to clear the memory buffer. Carter had to figure out a way to engage the stargate without a vortex hence opening a gate without wiping Teal'c's energy signiture. She new this were possible because she had seen this done before (such as with the Asgard and Nox) except without wiping the buffer with this 'other mean'.

hypergate
February 4th, 2006, 11:29 PM
One word.... Magic.

Dutch_Razor
February 5th, 2006, 08:32 AM
Did anyone notice the Kawoossh looks like to be similair in size to a puddle jumper?

Admiral Mappalazarou
February 5th, 2006, 09:01 AM
Did anyone notice the Kawoossh looks like to be similair in size to a puddle jumper?

Start a thread on it.

Avatar28
February 7th, 2006, 03:46 AM
That is why I believe that the Nox and the Asgard wipe the buffer clear by other means such as by directly tapping into its computer systems. It was stated in the episode '48 hours' that the primary purpose of the vortex is in fact to clear the memory buffer. Carter had to figure out a way to engage the stargate without a vortex hence opening a gate without wiping Teal'c's energy signiture. She new this were possible because she had seen this done before (such as with the Asgard and Nox) except without wiping the buffer with this 'other mean'.

Except that would mean that everyone travelling through the earth gate is at risk when the iris is up since the vortex doesn't form. Same as the Atlantis gate with the shield. I don't think the ancients would be willing to take that kind of risk. If the vortex and the crystal wiping occured simultaneously, then that would suggest, on observation, that the vortex wipes the crystals but that may not be necessarily true, they may just be inextricably linked within the stargate's programming.

Naonak
February 7th, 2006, 09:20 AM
I've always wondered how Apophis and his Jaffa dialled the 'gate at the beginning of 'Children of the Gods'.

spg_1983
February 7th, 2006, 09:32 AM
Except that would mean that everyone travelling through the earth gate is at risk when the iris is up since the vortex doesn't form. Same as the Atlantis gate with the shield. I don't think the ancients would be willing to take that kind of risk. If the vortex and the crystal wiping occured simultaneously, then that would suggest, on observation, that the vortex wipes the crystals but that may not be necessarily true, they may just be inextricably linked within the stargate's programming.
Well not neccesarily. With the Iris and shield up the energy surge that is the vortex still happens, just the physical outward flush doesnt happen. When the gate is opened with out it it does that quiet ripple out from the edges effect, but with the iris and shield up there is still the loud clash of energy that can be heard when it engages.

spg_1983
February 7th, 2006, 09:33 AM
I've always wondered how Apophis and his Jaffa dialled the 'gate at the beginning of 'Children of the Gods'.
General consensus is that they must have manually dialed back out, it is the only logical explanation.

Avatar28
February 8th, 2006, 03:18 AM
General consensus is that they must have manually dialed back out, it is the only logical explanation.

Why not consider that Apophis could have somehow gotten ahold of a hand dialing device?


Well not neccesarily. With the Iris and shield up the energy surge that is the vortex still happens, just the physical outward flush doesnt happen. When the gate is opened with out it it does that quiet ripple out from the edges effect, but with the iris and shield up there is still the loud clash of energy that can be heard when it engages.

But this is what I think we're talking about. The outward surge or splash or vortex or flush or whatever you want to call it. That's what I'm talking about being part of a safety feature to clear the are in front of the gate.

spg_1983
February 8th, 2006, 04:17 AM
Why not consider that Apophis could have somehow gotten ahold of a hand dialing device?Simple answer? The writers hadn't even thought them up yet when the episode was written. Also we have seen no evidence of any goa'uld having that technology either




But this is what I think we're talking about. The outward surge or splash or vortex or flush or whatever you want to call it. That's what I'm talking about being part of a safety feature to clear the are in front of the gate.
Yes the splash doesn't form but the energy surge still happens so the crystals would be wiped clean

V-MAN
February 9th, 2006, 11:19 AM
Actually the SGC managed to open the gate once without the vortex. When Teal'c was trapped inside the stargate's crystal memory, they had to screw around with the Russian DHD to get the gate to open without the vortex. They did it, and Teal'c stepped out. Destroyed the DHD in the process though... :p The Vortex isn't a necessary occurence for the gate to open, just a usual one. Sort of like a side effect, of normal operation rather than some sort of result to improper usage. The wormhole itself exist almost entirely outside of normal space/time. When the gate shuts off, you can even see the even horizon sort of getting 'sucked' out of normal space. (That white foamy rapids looking thing when the gate shuts off) Apparently, Earth will learn how to do it eventually too... because Cassandra did it in "1969". ;)

Would certainly be handy if they needed to gate of a planet fast, no more dialing and waiting and getting shot at lol