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View Full Version : Daniel's best Whumping / Peril episode



Madeleine
May 23rd, 2005, 02:59 AM
In our series of Polls to find the top Daniel ep, we've identified the best Loopy Daniel (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=12164)episodes as Legacy, Lifeboat and Absolute Power; the best eps for Daniel the Scholar and Explorer (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=11966) as Torment of Tantalus and The First Ones; and the best Daniel the Hero (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=11743) as Meridian and Reckoning pt II

This one is for Daniel's best Whumping / Peril episode. Since The First Ones and Meridian are already through to the final I'm not sure about including them in this poll. But it's a reasonably small field so in they go. After all, there's a heck of a lot of peril and whumping in 'em :D.

CKO
May 23rd, 2005, 04:36 AM
so many eppys where danny is whumped though... had to go with
PU personally cuz i am a scaper and well CB looked like she was havin a blast beatin up our space monkey

mazzmatazz
May 23rd, 2005, 04:51 AM
so many eppys where danny is whumped though... had to go with
PU personally cuz i am a scaper and well CB looked like she was havin a blast beatin up our space monkey

Curses, I missed that one in the options! I want to change my vote!

Madeleine
May 23rd, 2005, 05:13 AM
Seriously, if you want to change your vote, let me know and I'll change it. Offer applies only once per customer :D.

Tucker Case
May 23rd, 2005, 10:17 AM
I surprised myself by voting for ‘Prometheus Unbound.’

You know how some odds-makers, at Oscar time, will talk about a dark horse winner sneaking off with the prize if the two top contenders end up splitting the vote? It’s a bit like that: I couldn’t choose between ‘Fire & Water’ and ‘Crystal Skull,’ so ‘Prometheus Unbound’ slipped through.

Now, ‘The First Ones’ looked like an automatic vote until I remembered that, as much as I love that episode, the fact of Daniel being in immediate and terrible danger becomes the point of least concern for me the minute Daniel speaks his first word in the Unas language and Chaka gives him that look – that wonderful, astonished look, like a creature whose whole world has just tilted on its axis to give him a better view of a miracle. It isn’t about Daniel’s peril anymore, it’s about Daniel and his wonderful new friend.

But ‘The First Ones’ also suffers, as does ‘Evolution,’ from the meandering attitude of Daniel’s would-be rescuers. The sense of urgency barely lasts through the first minutes away from the SGC and gives way to other concerns that seem conveniently designed to slow them down because the writer/director simply isn’t ready for them to catch up to Daniel. Which is fine, it’s not unheard of, it’s there a bit in ‘Prometheus Unbound,’ too; it just seems forced in both of these episodes. There were times in both where the rescue party had ground to a halt and it was all I could do not to shout at the television, “Hey! This isn’t a picnic! Get the lead out, people!” I never thought the crew in ‘Prometheus Unbound’ was ever doing any less than they could, any faster than they could. There, the stall tactics worked. Here, not so much.

‘Fire & Water’ and ‘Crystal Skull’ seem to have it all. In both, Daniel’s peril seems almost insurmountable. It isn’t just that he’s been kidnapped in ‘F&W,’ his friends believe he’s dead, and the one thing his captor will accept in exchange for his freedom is something Daniel doesn’t have (or so he honestly and desperately believes) and cannot give him – it’s hugely frightening and frustrating – while in ‘Crystal Skull’ the poor guy actually entertains the thought that he might, in fact, be dead, so utterly without a clue is he (or anyone else) about what’s happening to him.

But what makes these episodes really soar – and this is like ‘Lifeboat’-over-‘Legacy’ again for me – is that the rest of the characters are as wonderful to watch as Daniel is, completely engaged in the story and making me cheer for them. You have the overwhelming grief in ‘F&W,’ Jack smashing car windows, Sam trembling with loss – and just as devastated, later, by the awful realisation they had left Daniel behind – and the three of them beating back their own memories with the merest sliver of an idea that Daniel might be alive. In ‘Crystal Skull,’ you have Siler’s brilliant warning to Rothman about the state of his well-being if he doesn’t come through for them, you have Jack, Sam and Teal’c following a last-ditch lead to a mental hospital and daring to trust that Daniel’s crazy old grandfather might be able to help them, you have Sam’s lovely thought that she can still sense Daniel’s presence because she misses him so much, and Nick’s poignant apology to what he believes is just another of his delusions. The whole cast of characters rallies brilliantly around the stories in these two episodes and I think it just might do me in to have to choose between them.

So I’m letting myself off the hook and going with ‘Prometheus Unbound.’

What I really like about this episode is how it manages, in the show’s eighth season, to put a new spin on the Obligatory 'Daniel Gets Kidnapped' Episode.

The Daniel Communicates/Finds Common Ground/Becomes Friends with his Captor theme was quite thoroughly explored in ‘Fire & Water’ and ‘The First Ones’: A hapless prisoner he may have been, but he was oddly in his element at the same time. Classic Daniel, but that story’s been told, and told well, so there’s no pressing need to revisit it, outright, again.

Enter ‘Evolution,’ where Daniel finds himself in the clutches of kidnappers he cannot charm, with whom he already shares a language but no common ground whatsoever. The personal resources he’s relied on for survival in past abductions aren’t going to work. He’s completely out of what is generally considered his element. The situation doesn’t play to Daniel’s usual strengths at all. He has to tap into new and different reserves of strength, he has to adapt, improvise, show us what else he’s got and, what’s more, he has not only himself but Dr. Lee to worry about as well (and it’s such a shame the rest of the episode does not live up to this).

‘Prometheus Unbound’ takes a stab at taking Daniel even further out of his element, facing a less brutal enemy who nonetheless forces him to fight dirtier (a whole other kind of threat to him).

The level of peril here is exceptional: He’s not only been taken prisoner, he’s hurtling through space in a vessel he can no longer operate (if he was ever fully adept at operating it on a good day). As with ‘Fire & Water,’ he has good reason to believe there’s little to no hope of rescue (if anything, those who might give it a good try are in need of help themselves, help Daniel would like to give them). And, to top it off, he’s faced with a captor so thoroughly bewildering, unpredictable and maddening it seems he has little chance of even understanding her (something he could at least do with the ruthless Rafael, who he understood enough to know there was never any point in trying to get through to him), never mind finding common ground with her. This one has him at his wits’ end – and that’s no small feat.

What I find so interesting about Vala is that she’s fully capable of being affected by Daniel, of not wanting to hurt him and even coming to care about him (and there are little hints that she has), and still weighing that against her own self-interest and deciding, “Sorry, pal, but it’s me first.” There’s really no way for Daniel to fight that accept on something approaching the same terms, gaining the upper hand without actually defeating or vanquishing her, and forcing his will over hers (even if his interests aren’t as self-serving as hers).

And the real kick in the teeth is that, even when he’s succeeded in doing this…well, crap, he still needs her. He’s not her prisoner anymore, but he’s still in big, big trouble and she’s his only way out of it. He actually has to trust her. Not gain her trust, not trust her to do the right thing, or anything that draws on any of her better qualities (if she has any); no, he has to trust that the situation has deteriorated to the point where what’s best for him (and for his friends) just happens to be what’s best for her, too – trust his life to her self-interest. Daniel was in danger of losing a little bit of himself in all of this, which is why I think it was so exhausting for him, and probably a blessing that they managed to make it so damn funny. It gave everyone involved a chance to play around and have fun with a new idea or two without committing either Daniel or Vala to something they couldn’t pull back from.

It was risky (frisky, too). I like that. It gets bonus points just for that.

As an additional bonus, we have the lovely surrogate team of Hammond, Walter, Novak and Reynolds in our boy’s corner. I will love Novak and Reynolds forever for the happy, relieved smiles they exchange upon hearing Daniel’s voice (that man, I’m convinced, has had a soft spot for Daniel ever since he found him wandering around on Vis Uban and personally delivered him back to his team), but Hammond’s “Are you alright, son?” was right up there with his phone chat with his granddaughter in ‘Crystal Skull’ – loving, warm and perfect.

Yeah, I can happily go with the dark horse episode, here. (Bet I can over-think peanut butter and crackers, too.)

Tucker

Suebsg9
May 23rd, 2005, 10:31 AM
In our series of Polls to find the top Daniel ep, we've identified the best Loopy Daniel (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=12164)episodes as Legacy, Lifeboat and Absolute Power; the best eps for Daniel the Scholar and Explorer (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=11966) as Torment of Tantalus and The First Ones; and the best Daniel the Hero (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=11743) as Meridian and Reckoning pt II

This one is for Daniel's best Whumping / Peril episode. Since The First Ones and Meridian are already through to the final I'm not sure about including them in this poll. But it's a reasonably small field so in they go. After all, there's a heck of a lot of peril and whumping in 'em :D.

shouldn't reckoning part two be on there since well major whumping and
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since he gets stabbed and since replicarter is in his mind the whole time as he tries to find it!

i do thinking the stabbing is a major whumping since he does die from it!

reckoning part one he is captured but he has yet to be tortured only against wall and replicarter trying to get information out of him! the fun of getting to the ancient stuff came in the second part!

sorry babbling lol :) and was a great job of both actors that made this one of the best eps. ever!

sue

MartoufMarty
May 23rd, 2005, 10:36 AM
I have to go with Crystal Skull in this one.

First episode I ever saw, and still love it. Favorite Daniel Whumping episode lol.

Ronja
May 23rd, 2005, 10:46 AM
Well I voted for Prometheus Unbound. I was choosing between PU and Evolution II. Both great Daniel whumping eps! :D But I ultimatly had to go with Prometheus Unbound cos it's just soooo funny! I still laugh like crazy everytime I see it. This is definitely one of my favorite episodes :D (just look at my sig! heh)

mazzmatazz
May 23rd, 2005, 01:02 PM
Seriously, if you want to change your vote, let me know and I'll change it. Offer applies only once per customer :D.

Please :o I'd appreciate it. Much as I love all the eps, PU is my choice... I'll read more carefully next time :o

DJFavorite
May 23rd, 2005, 01:16 PM
There were several good choices: The Serpent's Lair, Meridian, The First Ones. But I ended up going with Evolution Pt2. I mean, by the end of the eposide, Daniel was so whumped, he clearly feared for his life, I think even for the first time. All the previous times, he was sure that Jack and the others would save him or he accepted his fate. This time, I don't think he wanted to die, was alone, and out of options.

Margaret
May 23rd, 2005, 06:36 PM
I like Beast of Burden and New Ground because I enjoy seeing Daniel righteously pissed off! (I like Past & Present for the same reason.) I like New Ground and Affinity because they force Daniel to make some tough choices (and I don't mind seeing Daniel squirm a bit). I like Crystal Skull because he forgave his grandfather. Nice reconciliation, there.

I like all the episodes where Daniel gets whumped and he thinks of someone else first. And there sure are a lot of them. Like in Evolution, when Dr. Lee can't run anymore, Daniel hides him in the bushes and draws the attackers away.

But most of all, I like The First Ones. It just gets me that he could have cracked this thing's head open with a rock and he wouldn't. He wouldn't do to Chaka what Chaka so obviously intended to do to him. Secondly, even though he was tired, hungry and sore, he never gave up trying to communicate with Chaka, trying to bridge the gap between them. He even took out a power bar and shared it with him. Even though he didn't have much for himself, he gave away half of what he had. So I admire that even though he was pretty thoroughly whumped, he stayed in control of himself and found a peaceful solution even where it seemed there was none.

I don't care if it is old; this episode is so thoroughly 'Daniel' that I have to vote it the best!

LurkerLa
May 23rd, 2005, 09:19 PM
and well CB looked like she was havin a blast beatin up our space monkey

Ditto on that. :D

Seriously, this was tough, but fun fun banter + whumping = Winner!

emily_reich
May 23rd, 2005, 10:17 PM
yay! my favorite catagory!! :D was a tough choice though!!! i eventually decided on reckoning 2 though :D not only was he excellent with replicarter but plenty whumped and confused :D

Madeleine
May 23rd, 2005, 10:29 PM
Please :o I'd appreciate it. Much as I love all the eps, PU is my choice...

Okay, which ep did you vote for?

I've had more trouble deciding with this one than with any of the other polls. It ought to have been easy cos it's the smallest list yet, but that doesn't seem to help here. I have to look at the poll and see which is italicised just to find out which one *I* voted for :o.

Kliggins
May 23rd, 2005, 11:12 PM
Okay, which ep did you vote for?

I've had more trouble deciding with this one than with any of the other polls. It ought to have been easy cos it's the smallest list yet, but that doesn't seem to help here. I have to look at the poll and see which is italicised just to find out which one *I* voted for :o.

This one was the easiest for me. Evolution Part II practically leaped of the page at me. Thanks for doing this Madeleine. :)

Ali888
May 24th, 2005, 01:45 AM
Madeleine, What about The Devil You Know? He was drugged, had his memories manipulated and got smacked twice.

Ali P

sgt.siler
May 24th, 2005, 06:29 AM
I'm going to have to say, without a doubt, Evolution Part II. He nearly drowns Indian Jones style. Then he's bound at the wrists and blinfolded then dragged through the forest by gunpoint. He's held captive, beaten, without food and water, and tortured. Granted he doesn't die, but he comes pretty close to it as he's shot in the back of the leg as he's running through the forest.

Seshat
May 24th, 2005, 06:40 AM
No surprise what I voted for, since I chose it for the cover of the Whumping Guide. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/Seshat_6/Misc/WhumpCover_b.jpg

Madeleine
May 24th, 2005, 08:09 AM
Madeleine, What about The Devil You Know? He was drugged, had his memories manipulated and got smacked twice.

Ali P

Oooh, yes, so he did. It's there now, if you want to vote for it.

Sorry :o

Sela
May 24th, 2005, 09:23 AM
Promethus has got to be the classic Daniel whumping episode. Vala seriously kicked his butt! He got his shot in, but I can't remember Daniel ever getting outright stomped like that.

Mind you, Evolution Pt2 came in a close second for me, but a beating as torture and someone kicking your butt because they enjoy it is two entirely different things.

Galluslass
May 24th, 2005, 10:19 AM
When I think 'whump' I think Legacy.

I mean, how whumped are you when you know you're going mad. What made it worse was his team mates being there to witness it too. Made it all the more poignant and raw. When DJ gets whumped, and the team either don't know about it or don't appear to care (Reckonings) then somehow it doesn't seem to count for me.

GatetheWay
May 24th, 2005, 11:06 AM
What happened to Daniel in Point of View that was whumping? I hardly remember...

DJFavorite
May 24th, 2005, 12:06 PM
What happened to Daniel in Point of View that was whumping? I hardly remember...

Towards the end of the episode, after they were caught, Daniel got hit over the head by one of Apothis' guards.

GatetheWay
May 24th, 2005, 01:24 PM
Oh, well if that one is in the poll I'm surprised New Ground isn't there.

L-JADE
May 24th, 2005, 04:02 PM
It's Evolution Part Ii for me, mainly because the whumper is human.. and much more scarier than Goau'ld which most of the time look like comic book villain.

.

SlytherinGal
May 24th, 2005, 08:32 PM
i wish i could have chosen all of them...but i ended up going with The First Ones

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May 25th, 2005, 02:22 PM
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GateWarrior
May 31st, 2005, 03:03 AM
Personally, I had to go with Evolution, Part 2. Not only did he have the snot beat out of him, but he was nearly drowned, electrocuted, bound & blindfolded, and shot. Plus, all this happened in the "real world". Unprecedented. Usually he's getting slapped around offworld or in the SGC.

(Not to mention you gotta love the tank top. *yummy*)