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View Full Version : You Can't dial out if you don't know where you are Spoiler:SG-1 - SOLITUDES



Col. Newman
May 21st, 2005, 04:10 PM
In SOLITUDES they tried to dial earth but they couldn't because they where on earth but they didn't know that, they didn't even know where they where. Therefore they couldn't even try to dial out

Gregorius
May 21st, 2005, 04:14 PM
They had their PoO, but iirc there can't be two gates active on the same planet at the same time thus dialing earth couldn't be done.

Col. Newman
May 21st, 2005, 04:21 PM
but if they had the PoO then they would have know that they where on earth

Gregorius
May 21st, 2005, 04:23 PM
No iirc every gate has a different PoO (or is supposed to have). The Antartic gate had O and the current gate has that A thingy. So they couldn't have known they were on Earth.

Col. Newman
May 21st, 2005, 04:25 PM
o, ok that makes sense

Tok'Ra Hostess
May 21st, 2005, 07:03 PM
No iirc every gate has a different PoO (or is supposed to have).

Which makes me wonder how they managed to gate out of Hadante....

6thMonolith
May 21st, 2005, 09:45 PM
No iirc every gate has a different PoO (or is supposed to have). The Antartic gate had O and the current gate has that A thingy. So they couldn't have known they were on Earth.

The Antartic gate's PoO is a hexagon with a line under it. That gate is actually the one at the SGC, for the Egyptian gate was on Thor's ship when it went down, and was then recovered by the Russians.

^^thats actually the question to the Misc tech questions thread. SG-1 couldn't dial to earth because all of the superconducting parts that make up the dialing system were replaced and debugged. And the iris is too close for the kawoosh to form. I'll go post that.

Gregorius
May 22nd, 2005, 01:14 AM
Which makes me wonder how they managed to gate out of Hadante....

The Ancients helped them :P You know they have a weak for SG-1 (Or at least Oma has one for Daniel ;))


The Antartic gate's PoO is a hexagon with a line under it. That gate is actually the one at the SGC, for the Egyptian gate was on Thor's ship when it went down, and was then recovered by the Russians.

Season 6 spoiler, don't know if it's obligated :PNo it isn't. Anubis, the big bad guy he is, destroyed it in the first two eps of season 6. Then US Government rented the Egyptian gate from the Russians for lots of cash and a SG team

Mio
May 22nd, 2005, 05:23 AM
Which makes me wonder how they managed to gate out of Hadante....

One would assume that its always in between the same two symbols on the inner dial.

Matt G
May 22nd, 2005, 10:05 AM
This isn't a big deal as Jack and Sam were trying to dial out using a DHD. On a DHD, the red button in the middle serves as the seventh symbol. The only reason they needed to find the seventh symbol in the movie was because the Abydonians didn't find their DHD for a while post-movie!

6thMonolith
May 22nd, 2005, 10:34 AM
Season 6 spoiler, don't know if it's obligated :PNo it isn't. Anubis, the big bad guy he is, destroyed it in the first two eps of season 6. Then US Government rented the Egyptian gate from the Russians for lots of cash and a SG team

Hey, I lost track. They did use the Antartic Gate for awhile, though!;)

Major Tyler
May 22nd, 2005, 11:09 AM
The sad thing is, if they had just tried dialling another planet other than Earth, they would have been able to leave.

Col. Newman
May 22nd, 2005, 11:29 AM
Yeah i thought that was really stupid too, if i was in the situation i would try dialing more that one address, but then they wouldn't have realized that earth had to gates

6thMonolith
May 22nd, 2005, 11:33 AM
Or at least the Alpha site.

Col. Newman
May 22nd, 2005, 11:53 AM
Or at least the Alpha site.well i don't think they had the Alpha site at that time

6thMonolith
May 22nd, 2005, 01:33 PM
Um, they've had an Alpha Site since at least the start of season 2.

Col. Newman
May 22nd, 2005, 01:40 PM
Um, they've had an Alpha Site since at least the start of season 2.but SOLITUDES is in season one

6thMonolith
May 22nd, 2005, 02:06 PM
sorry, I was thinking of Small Victories. As for any other address, who's to say that Carter had any memorised? Daniel had a hard time keeping track of the first few addresses.

Col. Newman
May 22nd, 2005, 02:20 PM
As for any other address, who's to say that Carter had any memorised? Daniel had a hard time keeping track of the first few addresses.well good point i never thought of that

6thMonolith
May 22nd, 2005, 02:25 PM
Also, wasn't the DHD running out of juice? Maybe that had an effect.
(Trying to resist poiniting out that first line in your sig ;) )

Crazedwraith
May 23rd, 2005, 05:55 AM
This isn't a big deal as Jack and Sam were trying to dial out using a DHD. On a DHD, the red button in the middle serves as the seventh symbol. The only reason they needed to find the seventh symbol in the movie was because the Abydonians didn't find their DHD for a while post-movie!
Umm no its not. In Solidute Sam points at a specific symbol on the DHD and says this is the point of origin. Also in 'gate keeper' we can see a unquie PoO. It's like the symbol on the program exit.

6thMonolith
May 23rd, 2005, 03:56 PM
hmmm... When people dial out with a DHD, we only see six symbols dialed, like in Rising. It's eigther an error, or an interesting feature of DHD's.

Mio
May 23rd, 2005, 05:11 PM
hmmm... When people dial out with a DHD, we only see six symbols dialed, like in Rising. It's eigther an error, or an interesting feature of DHD's.

The DHDs are telepathic. ::nods sagely::

_Owen_
May 23rd, 2005, 05:13 PM
No, even if you don't know where you are you can dial out. Each gate has a unique point of origin symbol, and I stress, symbol. Two symbols may represent the same location for example two gates on the same planet, but the symbol would still be diffrent. So even if you didn't know where you were but you did know what all of the symbols on the DHD look like, you could dial out, simply by finding the one symbol that is not on any other gate, as Carter did in "Solitudes."

Owen Macri

BackStageJim
May 23rd, 2005, 08:24 PM
I still feel that that is an oversight in design. The stargate should 'know' where it is in the galaxy relative to the other points in galaxy. Granted, the Ancients could have placed it as a security device to ensure use of stargate was limited to those who should be using the gate technology.

Col. Newman
May 23rd, 2005, 09:15 PM
The stargate should 'know' where it is in the galaxy relative to the other points in galaxy.My thoughts exactly

Tok'Ra Hostess
May 24th, 2005, 10:33 AM
No, even if you don't know where you are you can dial out. Each gate has a unique point of origin symbol, and I stress, symbol. Two symbols may represent the same location for example two gates on the same planet, but the symbol would still be diffrent. So even if you didn't know where you were but you did know what all of the symbols on the DHD look like, you could dial out, simply by finding the one symbol that is not on any other gate, as Carter did in "Solitudes."

Owen Macri

Okay, this gate symbols thing always confuses me. Does this mean that there are 38 symbols that are the same on every gate in the galaxy(or the local stargate dialing system) and that the 39th symbol is unique to each gate?

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 01:32 PM
That is exactly right, I however am not sure if it is applicable to all galactic groups there is some talk that there are only 36 symbols on the Pegasus Stargates.

Owen Macri

6thMonolith
May 24th, 2005, 04:23 PM
Okay, this gate symbols thing always confuses me. Does this mean that there are 38 symbols that are the same on every gate in the galaxy(or the local stargate dialing system) and that the 39th symbol is unique to each gate?

Bingo. Other galaxies may have a different number of symbols, but each gate has a unique PoO. Here's RDA (http://www.rdanderson.com/stargate/glyphs/glyphs.htm)'s site. Nice view of the Abydos DHD. The PoO is at 10 O'clock on it.

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 04:41 PM
Yes this has been stated in the show and on websites, that is one of the more certain points the stargate network.

Owen Macri

Tok'Ra Hostess
May 25th, 2005, 10:10 AM
Thanks, MO and 6thMonolith.

I'll try to remember that. :)

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 11:12 AM
but each gate has a unique PoO.so each gate has its own PoO symbol that is a unique symbol, other wise there would only be 38 (or 39 kinda confused on number of symbols) gates in the galaxy

_Owen_
May 25th, 2005, 12:59 PM
Yes there would be only 38 gates in the galaxy because there would only be 38 symbols on the gate and 38 possible points of origin.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 01:14 PM
im confused, r u saying that there r only 38 gates in the galaxy or that there would only be 38 gates in the galaxy if the points of origin where not unique

_Owen_
May 25th, 2005, 01:17 PM
The second one. If there was no 39th symbol, no unique point of origin, then the stargates would use one of the other 38 symbols as a point of origin, allowing only 38 stargates in a galaxy. I wasn't saying that there are only 38 stargates, that would be crazy, the show would be over in twenty minutes!

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 01:22 PM
The second one. If there was no 39th symbol, no unique point of origin, then the stargates would use one of the other 38 symbols as a point of origin, allowing only 38 stargates in a galaxy. I wasn't saying that there are only 38 stargates, that would be crazy, the show would be over in twenty minutes!

Owen Macriok sorry, i got confizaled :confused:

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 01:36 PM
Go Here (http://www.seattle-network.com/~Col-Newman/Glyphs/Glyphs.htm) to my site and look at the PoOs and then look at the 38 symbols most of the PoO are 1 of the 38 glyphs, it just seems weird

_Owen_
May 25th, 2005, 01:36 PM
Thats ok, I tend to be confusing sometimes.

Owen Macri

_Owen_
May 25th, 2005, 01:40 PM
Go Here (http://www.seattle-network.com/~Col-Newman/Glyphs/Glyphs.htm) to my site and look at the PoOs and then look at the 38 symbols most of the PoO are 1 of the 38 glyphs, it just seems weird
That is a good site, thank you.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 01:51 PM
It seems that there are only 3 really unique PoOs

Earth'shttp://www.seattle-network.com/~Col-Newman/Glyphs/glyph01.gif
P7J-989'shttp://www.seattle-network.com/~Col-Newman/Glyphs/glyph42.gif
Earth's second gate'shttp://www.seattle-network.com/~Col-Newman/Glyphs/glyph41.gif

the rest r 1 of the 38 standard glyphs

6thMonolith
May 25th, 2005, 01:55 PM
Go Here (http://www.seattle-network.com/%7ECol-Newman/Glyphs/Glyphs.htm) to my site and look at the PoOs and then look at the 38 symbols most of the PoO are 1 of the 38 glyphs, it just seems weird

Straight from http://www.rdanderson.com :rolleyes:

If you look closely, the DHD is from Abydos.

6thMonolith
May 25th, 2005, 01:59 PM
It seems that there are only 3 really unique PoOs

Earth'shttp://www.seattle-network.com/%7ECol-Newman/Glyphs/glyph01.gif
P7J-989'shttp://www.seattle-network.com/%7ECol-Newman/Glyphs/glyph42.gif
Earth's second gate'shttp://www.seattle-network.com/%7ECol-Newman/Glyphs/glyph41.gif

the rest r 1 of the 38 standard glyphs

Except for http://www.rdanderson.com/stargate/glyphs/glyph40.gif , the Abydos PoO.

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 02:03 PM
well that still doesn't explain the other PoOs

P.S. i don't deny that i copied it from RDAnderson, i cite my sources, and even put a link

6thMonolith
May 25th, 2005, 02:15 PM
The rest are probably just errors or eyecandy. I remember seeing a screen with 'gate addresses on it, and one of the addresses had the Abydos PoO as a symbol. It happens ;)

_Owen_
May 25th, 2005, 02:19 PM
If they used one of the 38 symbols as a point of origin it was a simple mistake by the producers, there is supposed to be a uniqe point of origin for every gate.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 02:27 PM
If they used one of the 38 symbols as a point of origin it was a simple mistake by the producers, there is supposed to be a uniqe point of origin for every gate.

Owen Macrithats what i was thinking too

6thMonolith
May 25th, 2005, 02:29 PM
Yup. I think I found the Atlantis PoO once on a fan site. The Pegasus symbols look pretty wierd--just connected points.

_Owen_
May 25th, 2005, 02:32 PM
I noticed that, what I want them to do most in season two is explore the gate itself, it is definetly diffrent than the other gates, there must be some reason that they are diffrent.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 02:39 PM
constellations or something maybe

6thMonolith
May 25th, 2005, 02:45 PM
Well, all of the symbols on all of the gates seem to be constellations. Atlantis only seems to confirm this.

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 03:06 PM
Well, all of the symbols on all of the gates seem to be constellations.didn't they mention that the symbols were constellations at some point, im not sure though, it just seems that they did

6thMonolith
May 25th, 2005, 03:10 PM
It's never really been mentioned in the show. Check out http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=11800

Tok'Ra Hostess
May 25th, 2005, 05:03 PM
Okay then, how do you smart folk explain what Catherine said in TBFTGOG: (Daniel, AU Sam and AU Catherine are trying to figure out where the warning came from)

Danny: "Or at least a...Military base. They must have assigned a number to each symbol of the Stargate, it's a code! All we need to do is find out which symbol the Aliens represented as one and start counting from there!"

Sam: "Well the only unique symbol they would have is the point of origin, on 233!"

Cat: "But that symbol may not even be on our Stargate!"

Was this a plot hole, then? Because what Catherine said makes it sound like Earth might not be able to dial 233 if 233's PoO was not on Earth's gate. I always took that to mean that if you were dialing , say, 233 from Earth, that 233's Poo would figure into the addy, as, say the first symbol of the 7 symbol code, with Earth's PoO being the seventh symbol dialed (from Earth).

If I'm wrong, pleeeease set me straight, because I hate not understanding what seems to be so straightforward for everybody else.

'Cause if I'm right, then the gate system shouldn't work beyond 38 or 39 different gates.

6thMonolith
May 25th, 2005, 05:20 PM
hmmm... that seems like an error to me. You don't need the /\ symbol to dial to earth, and you shouldn't need 233's PoO to dial to 233. But hey, its an alternate universe after all :D

_Owen_
May 25th, 2005, 06:33 PM
I know where you made a mistake, that conversation was about finding which number represents which symbol, and the reason that they mentioned the point of origin was because since that was the only unique symbol that was the only logical place to start counting, they simply wanted to find which symbols corespond with which numbers. The reason that they said that the symbol wasn't even on thier gate was because since it wasn't on thier gate they wouldn't know what it looked like or where to start counting, then of course Daniel pulls out his camera.

Owen Macri

Stricken
May 26th, 2005, 06:02 AM
They reuse the sam Po0 because of costs + they use the same gate on location which has the Earth Po0, a mistake which the produces mad and it probbly costs too much to change it

_Owen_
May 26th, 2005, 12:59 PM
Ya, I agree, it is just a matter of cost. I didn't know that the gates used on location had the Earth point of origin, maybe in an episode you can catch that.

Owen Macri

Tok'Ra Hostess
May 26th, 2005, 02:46 PM
I know where you made a mistake, that conversation was about finding which number represents which symbol, and the reason that they mentioned the point of origin was because since that was the only unique symbol that was the only logical place to start counting, they simply wanted to find which symbols corespond with which numbers. The reason that they said that the symbol wasn't even on thier gate was because since it wasn't on thier gate they wouldn't know what it looked like or where to start counting, then of course Daniel pulls out his camera.

Owen Macri


Okay, but... if SG-1 wanted to dial 233 - or anywhere else, for that matter - from Earth, wouldn't the symbol unique to that gate have to be part of the addy for 233? :S

BTW, I'm really not trying to be confrontational; the dialing system has confused me from the Movie, onwards.

_Owen_
May 26th, 2005, 03:00 PM
No, you see, the unique symbol, the point of origin, is unique to only one gate, it isn't on any others, the adress uses six points in space to identify a volume of space for the gate to search to send the wormhole to, the point of orign represents a single point, assumably in the center of the gate, so the gate knows exactly where it is, not within a volume of space, but exaclty where it is. The point of origin is not required to dial because you are not using that specific point, you are using six others which will form three lines which will intersect to identify an area of space, the gate would not use the specific point where the other gate resides to dial it, this is because that point is constantly changing, as the planet rotates, and as it orbits around its' mother star, or possibly stars, but the gate only needs to know where it is for a very limited amount of time, and incredibly small amount simply so it can activate a wormhole, from that point, which will be that stargate.

Owen Macri

GateWarrior
May 31st, 2005, 01:06 AM
Hi everyone,
Newbie here... Well, new to this forum anyway. I've been watching the show since the beginning and have seen the movie dozens of times, but one thing still confuses me.

The constellations. How is it that they are (supposed to be?) all the same on each gate in the system? (Except for the PoO.) Considering that the universe is such a huge place, how can all the constellations be the same on every gate. Shouldn't the distance alone dictate what symbols are on the gate? Not to mention the differences in each galaxy? It just seems to me that the further away you go, the constellations should start to change at some point. Wouldn't that make for several jumps from one gate to another in order to reach very distant places? Or are the places that they are going to just not that distant? I suppose that would seem logical. Maybe.

I would appreciate any comments on this.

Or does this need to go to another thread?

Thanks.

Edited:
Ah, sorry... I think I just found my answer on another thread.

6thMonolith
May 31st, 2005, 09:16 AM
Welcome to the forum, GateWarrior!

_Owen_
May 31st, 2005, 01:37 PM
Welcome to the forum Gateworrior!

If the answer that you found is that the symbols were only supposed to be constellations in the movie than it is correct, in the show, they were just symbols, allthough they did form words, which we just recently found out after seven seasons, lol.

Owen Macri

GateWarrior
May 31st, 2005, 10:28 PM
Ahhh... Yes, yes. Something like that.

Thank you both for the welcome. :D

_Owen_
June 1st, 2005, 06:25 PM
lol. The more the merrier!

Happy posting!

Owen Macri

Arga
September 29th, 2006, 04:12 PM
Something that bugged me for quite a while.

Considering the addresses represent in a way the vector in space to go from one gate to the other, if the 7th symbol is the point of origin, is unique for each stargate and is displayed on the gate itself, it means that every time they go to another planet, the team has to learn by heart the first 6 symbols of the address for Earth before they go on a mission, otherwise they might not be able to come back. Maybe they do it when they are briefed about the mission.. off screen. But it's a little curious they never mentioned it.
It's not like a phone number, that where ever you are, it is always the same digits!

But then, if they had to go from gate to gate until going back to Earth, or are transported to an unforseen planet, in a word, if they are on an unknown planet, I wonder how can they guess what will be the address to Earth... Because they don't know which way to point the wormwhole to.

Does it mean that, dialling towards Earth, the first 6 symbols are always the same what ever planet you are, and what differs is only the point of origin, which is written on top of the stargate ring.?

NoDot
September 29th, 2006, 08:29 PM
Does it mean that, dialling towards Earth, the first 6 symbols are always the same what ever planet you are, and what differs is only the point of origin, which is written on top of the stargate ring.?YES! THIS HAS BEEN KNOWN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE SHOW!

Major Tyler
September 30th, 2006, 01:53 AM
Does it mean that, dialling towards Earth, the first 6 symbols are always the same what ever planet you are, and what differs is only the point of origin, which is written on top of the stargate ring.?In the movie all of the symbols are different, but in the TV show only the POO is different.

Tok'Ra Hostess
September 30th, 2006, 07:14 AM
Originally Posted by Arga
Does it mean that, dialling towards Earth, the first 6 symbols are always the same what ever planet you are, and what differs is only the point of origin, which is written on top of the stargate ring.?


YES! THIS HAS BEEN KNOWN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE SHOW!

Except that Daniel seemed to have no end of trouble dialing Earth from Chulak. He did know Chulak's unique symbol, and tried twice to show it to Jack soon after their arrival. At the end we see Daniel fumbling through his pack for the addy and then, slowly, somewhat clumsily, dialing out. It was seven symbols, FCOL, six of which he'd have known by heart, surely.

Daniel's actions in that escape scene conveyed to me the idea that Earth's addy would have been different, dialed from Chulak, then it was, dialed from Abydos, and not by merely one symbol.

Seastallion
September 30th, 2006, 09:31 AM
Except that Daniel seemed to have no end of trouble dialing Earth from Chulak. He did know Chulak's unique symbol, and tried twice to show it to Jack soon after their arrival. At the end we see Daniel fumbling through his pack for the addy and then, slowly, somewhat clumsily, dialing out. It was seven symbols, FCOL, six of which he'd have known by heart, surely.

Daniel's actions in that escape scene conveyed to me the idea that Earth's addy would have been different, dialed from Chulak, then it was, dialed from Abydos, and not by merely one symbol.

But... :rolleyes: :p Keep in mind that they hadn't quite gotten their television show 'legs' beneath them quite yet in the Pilot. They were still relying heavily on the movie, and then later the show came more into its own. It has been established fact that all stargate addresses (that work) are valid no matter where you dial from, and remain the same until enough time has passed that the address have to be updated to compensate for stellar movements around the galaxy. However, the address recalculations only have to be done once every several thousand years or so. Even in the Pilot this idea was present. Remember they had to feed the old addresses found on the Abydos Cartouche into the computer to be recalculated for revised coordinates. Carter then stated that the computer would be able to spit out about 2 or 3 destinations a month. This was status quo, until O'Neill got the repository of the Ancients downloaded into his brain, and gave the SGC a revolutionary formula for calculating stargate addresses which sped up the new calculations significantly.

Okay, now a response to the thread's basis itself...

Bottom Line: You CAN dial out even if you don't know where you are. Solitudes was a VERY BAD example. They were trying to dial Earth, but they were ALREADY on Earth. So it didn't work. Duh. :rolleyes: