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JedI Master of the Gate
May 21st, 2005, 02:50 AM
Please Answer if you can

Just say you were to take the Earth stargate (or any other gate) to another planet lets say Tollan what address would you have to dial, also what about stargates on ships do there address' keep changing?

the Fifth Race
May 21st, 2005, 04:07 AM
Thats where the DHD comes into play, not only does it work as a dialing device, but it adjusts to planetary shift's, any realigning of the stars and any other annomilies that might alter a worm hole destination. I believe thats why any SG's on a ship that moves around has to have a DHT and not just a computer like the SGC uses.

Esquin
May 21st, 2005, 05:15 AM
Stargates and DHD's are interchangable. When you move them to a different system they adopt that systems address in the gate network. So if you took a stargate to the New Tollan home world then dialing earth would still be a matter of dialing earths 6 symbols and a point of origin. An important thing to note is that the Point of Origin is generic, the symbol of the PoO is interchangable and makes no difference as the DHD automatically accepts any PoO symbol as the PoO for the system it is in.

_Owen_
May 21st, 2005, 09:41 AM
Awww, everyone got here before me, I will answer anyways!

If a gate is moved to another location the adress that you have to dial will change, instead of symbols 1,3,34,7,23,16, you might have to dial, symbols, 2,4,5,6,7,8. however on the gate that you have moved, you may still dial the same symbols for other gates.
The point of origin symbol is uniquie to every gate, no one symbol is the same, so the point of orign symbol won't change if you move the gate, however, the location that the symbol represents will be changed.

A stargates coordinates are only updated when it enters the specified area around a planet, so the symbols that you dial will remain the same until you enter the specified area, it is most likley that they will not change during transit, the only way this could happen is if you were traveling out of hyperspace, and passed very close to a planet. There is also the possibility that the location of the gate will not be updated until it is activated, by a dial out, in this case the gate will have the same symbols but until it is activated, any gate trying to dial them will not activate, because the gate isn't there anymore, when the gate is activated it will cause an update, that will change the symbols applicable to the gate.

Owen Macri

NotAllowedToNameAnything.Ever.
May 27th, 2005, 07:05 PM
No i think you need the matching dhd to the right gate otherwise the points of orgion would be deffrent. Though my only proff for this would be that for somereason we never tried to take a dhd from another world and hook it to or gate. Though both of or dhds or now dead. Note that both gates found on earthj have the same symbol of point of orgin.

Then agian i am just here to give a second point of view.

_Owen_
May 27th, 2005, 07:45 PM
Actually the point of origin symbol would just be diffrent, both from the previous one, and from the one on the stargate.

Actually the gates on Earth had diffrent points of origin, The eygiptian gate has the trademark, "A" symbol and the point of origin on the Beta gate is clearly shown in the season one episode "Solitudes."

Owen Macri

Tibit
May 28th, 2005, 08:36 AM
Yes the gates are supposed to have different PoO but ever notice in the show they don't after they have to start using the beta gate? The Alpha gate was lost but hey, whenever you see the gate dialing after that you see the Pyramid chevron lock to open a wormhole, not the other one.

_Owen_
May 28th, 2005, 10:19 AM
That was only for a while that they used the beta gate, if the point of origin was the "A" symbol than it was just a mistake. The Point of origin symbol would stay the same, but the point that the symbol represents would change.

Owen Macri

6thMonolith
May 28th, 2005, 01:43 PM
Yes the gates are supposed to have different PoO but ever notice in the show they don't after they have to start using the beta gate? The Alpha gate was lost but hey, whenever you see the gate dialing after that you see the Pyramid chevron lock to open a wormhole, not the other one.

I think that Owen can back me for this. As far as I remember, the beta gate was found, and put into storage. Then, in Small Victories, the alpha 'gate was beamed out, and lost to the ocean. The Russians later recovered it. The SGC started using the Beta gate, which was eventually destroyed by Anubis. The SGC, after season 4ish has the alpha gate on loan from Russia. So the Antartic gate was the one that was destroyed. Right? I'll look for that one post by Owen that had the ENTIRE history of the 'gate.

_Owen_
May 28th, 2005, 01:58 PM
Yes, that is pretty much it, except it was the season six premier that they got the alpha gate back, I will repost my "story" here, for you.

Owen Macri

_Owen_
May 28th, 2005, 01:59 PM
"The Brief History of Earth Stargates."
(ooh, sounds exciting)

Millions and millions of years ago, maybe billions, I lost track after a thousand, The Ancient devised a network of devices that would be placed around the Milky Way galaxy, these devices would allow quick transportation between planets, they would be called... something in ancient, however translated to English they are called... Stargates.

Earth was one of the first planets to recieve a gate it was place in what is now known as Antarctica, along with an ancient outpost, like Sheppard, ancients like Antarctica, hey does anyone see a conection.

For millions of years this gate was used both by the ancients before they ascended to higher beings and by the Goa'uld and Humans, later. However, for reasons I cannot determine the Stargate on Earth was lost to Ra, it was burried under, or should I say, in, a glacier in Antarctica, not to be seen by anyone important for a long, LONG, time.

Ra, liking Earth very much as his summer getaway and main source of slaves, needed some way of getting to Earth, something faster than his old, crappy, ship. So one day he thought, "let's steal a Stargate!" And who would've thunk, he did. He took a Stargate from a planet currently unknown to the SGC, and placed it very carefully, on Earth. Now coming to his senses and realising that his slaves would stop dying on the trip from the warm parts of the world to antarctica, he put the Stargate right in the Metropolis of his slaves, Walmart, I mean Egypt.

From then on for hundreds, if not thousands of years Ra used this Stargate to move his slaves from planet to planet, when he had nothing else to do. It was like ping-pong, he opens one gate with a line up of slaves in front of it, and one by one, SMACKS them through with a stick, on the other side there was a guard waiting would would quickly smack them back into the gate. Ra, being as dumb as he is, did not realise that when this happend the people actually ceased to exist. So in Egypt when they found out Ra just killed a handful of slaves for NO reason, they thought about it for a while, and then when he was eating his turkey sandwich, BOOM, they revolted, killing his guards on Earth and burring the gate. Even though this planet was so important to him, he did not return to reclaim it, as I said, being as dumb as he is.

PART TWO: MODERN SOCIETY

On an archealogical dig in Giza Egypt, archeaologist Dr. Langoford discovered an artifact circular in nature covered by a stone, the outer ring is enscribed with Hieroglyphics, and the inner cartouche contains symbols of the likes no one has seen before. This is not half as interesting as what is underneath, HEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES STARGATE!!!

That is right the second Stargate was found, the one that Ra brought to replace the lost Antarctic gate.

For years no one had the slightest clue what it was or what it did, then in 1945 they actually turned it on, a scientist, named Ernest Littlefield who was working for the program went through in what was a diving suit, when he was through the Stargate shut off, he would not be seen for many, many years. (ignoring the fact that when Ernest went through the gate he had a hose attached that was giving him oxygen, then the stargate deactivated cutting it off which is impossible becuase the gate transmits matter in discrete units, the gate would have stayed active for the entire thirty-eight minutes).

The good doctor, Ernest Littlefield was the fiance of a young woman, who goes by the name of Cathrine Langford, thats right, the daughter of the archaeologist who discocered the gate.

For a while the gate was put away, but then a few years later the program was reopened and Cathrine was now in charge. No one currently alive at that time new of the activation in 1945, and no one would for a couple of years. Around 1994 Dr. Cathrine Langford searched out a young hopeful archaeologist, with crazy ideas that had pretty much been laughed out of the acedemic society, he went by the name of Dr. Daniel Jackson.

He was recruited by Catherine to try to translate the hieroglyphics on the coverstone, he easily translated them in no time, and that was that. Then they actually new what to call the device, Stargate, not "Door way to Heaven." Dr. Jackson later figured out that the symbols on the inner cartouche were actually points in space, and the device, that Dr. Jackson didn't know of, transported matter and energy across vast areas of space using an artificial wormhole. Dr. Jackson along with a military Colonel named Jack O'Neill who had recently retired because his son Charlie, or Tyler, shot himself with Jacks' gun, how sad. Oh, and there was a whole other smattering of military that went along with them. Sorry, in my haste I have strayed off topic and forgot to tell you were they are going, well it was a planet... either on the other side of the unvierse, in the Kalium Galaxy, or the closest planet to Earth, Abydos.

To make a long story short, they killed Ra, an alien pretending to be a god to the people of Abydos.

PART THREE: THE SGC

A couple years later after returning from Abydos, the facility is closed and military personell are being shipped out. Three men and an woman sit in a large room on Sub level 28, playing cards... how responsible. Suddenly the large object underneath the big white sheet starts to move, then it comes flying off for no apparent reason, Guess who's back, back again, Stargate's back, tell a friend, na na na, na na na, na na na, na na na. *Clears throat*... Sorry about that... anyways, the Stagate opens ans I believe, eight people come through, and there he is again, RA!

O'Neill is quickly recalled and the facility is now under the command of a bald man in a white shirt, no, not Homer Simpson, General George Hammond... of Texas. This is a long story so I will shorten it. They contact the supposedly DEAD Dr. Jackson, who supposedly DIED on thier mission to Abydos, using, that's right, the box of all boxes, filled with the tissue of all tissues, a Kleenex box. Dr. Jackson replies, they go to Abydos and find out that it wasn't Ra that came through the gate it was another one of these damned aliens, oh, what is his name, (I seriously can't remember his name!)... APOPHIS, got it!

This is not the last they have seen of him, he came to Abydos, through the Starate and kidnapped Dr. Jacksons' new wife, Aumonet, I MEAN, Sha're (is that how you spell that), and O'Neills' friend and Daniels' brother-in-law, Skaraa.

The team including its' newest member, the brainy, the astrophysicist pilot, the Captain, Samantha Carter, also Air Force .
(It might have been good to mention that O'Neill and Hammond were air force too, oh great, now that last sentence isn't going to make sense, sorry, just thinking out loud)

Anyways the facility is dawned, the SGC or Stargate Command, and is oppend as a full time facility, with thier directive to explore other worlds and gain technology.

PART FOUR: THE LATER YEARS

As of the season one episode "Solitudes," The SGC is now in possesion of two Stargates. Colonel O'Neill and Captain Carter found this gate by "accident" after escaping from a planet where the team took heavy fire. The gate was "overloaded" this caused the wormhole to "jump" to another gate, the gate hidden under the surface of Antarctica.

Near the end of season three and the begining of season four, the Egyptian gate was lost in the Pacific Ocean, I believe it was, when Thors' ship crashed after being attacked by replicators. It was necesary for the team to beam the gate up to the ship so that they could escape. The Antarctic gate was taken out of storage and used full-time, in the SGC. It appeared that the trademark, "A" symbol was gone.

For a while they were forced to use the Beta gate, or the Antarctic gate as thier Alpha gate, it was not until later in season four that the "A" returned.

In the season four episode "Watergate" the SGC discovered that the Russians had been secretly operating a Stargate program of thier own out of Russia, the Russians were using the Egypt gate that they found in the ocean. The gate managed to survive being plunged into the ocean at incredible speeds, but it survived.

The SGC was forced to continue using the Antarctic gate until early season six. In season premier episodes of season six "Redemption" Anubis is attacking Earth using an ancient weapon that he has discovered, it uses one gate to destroy another. Obviously they manage escape this seemingly unescapable situation, unfortuanatley, the Antarctic Stargate is lost, forever. The United States is forced to "rent" the "A" gate from Russia, and continue to use the Egypt gate right up until now.

This has been the brief history of Stargates on Earth, it is up to you to write the future...

Owen Macri

6thMonolith
May 28th, 2005, 07:03 PM
Yup, that's Owen's huge post ;) It pretty much explains everything. :D

_Owen_
May 28th, 2005, 07:08 PM
lol, I a thread about the stargates, so I thought, you know, why not "A Brief History of the Stargates on Earth," could be interesting, I also added in humor to lighten it up a little.

Owen Macri

6thMonolith
May 28th, 2005, 07:21 PM
Now for a brief history of Stargates on Chu'lak(as far as we know).

Gate was placed on Chu'lak by the Ancients. Descovered by Goa'uld. Used by SG-1.

... :D

_Owen_
May 28th, 2005, 07:34 PM
Lol, that works!

Owen Macri

YodaMate
May 31st, 2005, 01:50 AM
Hmmm, how odd. The impression that i had regarding dialling mechanics appears to be different to the one most experts believe. This might be about to become embarassing for me, though that's never stopped me before :)

Based on Daniel's comments in The Serpent's Lair , where he said that he used 'Earth' as a point of origin, i got the impression that Gates were interchangeable, the 7 symbols are entirely related to location, not gate. In this case, Daniel uses Apophis' gate (in Earth's orbit) to dial the six Alpha Site symbols and then the Earth 'A' as PoO symbol.

In Solitudes , Carter doesn't know where in the galaxy they are but she identifies what she believes is the PoO on the basis that one symbol is unfamiliar to her and it never crosses her mind that they might be on Earth. It is noteworthy that she is unsuccessful in dialling home. This is definitely not due to the 'no 2 wormholes from same planet' rule cause one of the times she dialled, the 'alpha' gate was clearly not in use. It could be because the PoO was incorrect or that the gate thought she was dialling itself (or as i see it, a combination of the two). The evidence, i believe, could support either perspective.

The cover stone that was on top of the buried Stargate (which provided the basis for the 'A' symbol) was located in Ancient Egypt. This implies that when the gate was used in Egypt that they used the 'A' as PoO. There has been stellar drift since that time, yet the 'A' remains valid. This lends credibility to the symbol been tied to the gate, not the spot in the galaxy.
Until an episode called Avenger 2.0 came along.

It revealed that the DHDs periodically send data to one another, specifically to counter the effects of stellar drift. Daniel, however, used the Abydos DHD to dial old addresses with no success. So the DHD chatter isn't aimed at 'translating' old addresses into new addresses, probably to allow a new gate to be placed in the old spot in between system updates. So what does the update do ? Either it lets individual DHDs know there is no longer a gate at that spot or it updates the PoO to a new location or both (i suspect, given the effects of Baal's altered update, it does both).

If the DHD chatter translates the old actual position described by the PoO to the new position described by the PoO, then the Earth DHD could well have participated in the update whilst under the sands of Egypt or even conceivably done it whilst the gate and DHD were in the US and Russia respectively.

My theory is that the whole PoO system is in fact a back-up. Gates are interchangeable and can be put anywhere. It is the DHD that acts as the anchor in the system, keeping track of where the gate is, what exact location the PoO translates to, maybe even containing data on where every gate in the system is. Thus, when using a DHD, you don't have to (but you can if you like) punch in the PoO because the DHD already knows it. But when there is no DHD available, a gate is just a gate. It has to be told by whoever is manually dialling (which is what the SGC dialling computer does) where the gate is (i.e. the PoO). To help the manual dial out be as user friendly as possible, the Ancients tried to make PoO symbols fairly unique where possible.

Supporting the idea of interchangeable gates, in New Ground , a gate on another planet been excavated has the 'A' symbol. This implies that if that gate was brought to Earth, you could use that symbol as the PoO.

_Owen_
May 31st, 2005, 12:48 PM
The symbols themselves don't change however the location that the symbol represents will, when Daniel dialed out from Klorels ship he used whichever point of origin symbol was on that gate, but it was within the orbit of the planet, so the symbol represented thier position in orbit around Earth, if this wasn't what you were saying please correct me.

Owne Macri

YodaMate
May 31st, 2005, 11:50 PM
Actually, i'm no longer really sure what i'm saying :)

Yeah, that sounds right, where the exact location the symbol reflects changes.

My main contention (i think) was that PoOs aren't all unique to individual gates (which retcons the appearance of the 'A' symbol on the New Ground gate). After scanning my post, i realised there was only one actually interesting paragraph, which i shall repost now for convenience sake.

My theory is that the whole PoO system is in fact a back-up. Gates are interchangeable and can be put anywhere. It is the DHD that acts as the anchor in the system, keeping track of where the gate is, what exact location the PoO translates to, maybe even containing data on where every gate in the system is. Thus, when using a DHD, you don't have to (but you can if you like) punch in the PoO because the DHD already knows it. But when there is no DHD available, a gate is just a gate. It has to be told by whoever is manually dialling (which is what the SGC dialling computer does) where the gate is (i.e. the PoO). To help the manual dial out be as user friendly as possible, the Ancients tried to make PoO symbols fairly unique where possible.

_Owen_
June 1st, 2005, 05:23 PM
You are right that the location of the symbol will change while the symbol does not. As for your other theory, it is a good one. Allthough I am not sure that it is true, basically the point of origin is there because the Ancients wanted it there, and until they tell us in the show, we will not know. So your theory is as good as mine.

Owen Macri

Darth Eddy
June 1st, 2005, 06:01 PM
I would just like to point out that the reason the "New Ground" gate had the same simple is propably because they didn't want to waste money on making a new gate and they might have left it in as a joke.

_Owen_
June 1st, 2005, 06:16 PM
I am sorry, what is the "New Ground Gate," I think I missed something... sorry!

Owen Macri

Darth Eddy
June 1st, 2005, 06:36 PM
In "New Ground" people unearth a Stargate that has the same "A" symbol as our gate.

_Owen_
June 1st, 2005, 07:22 PM
Oh, thank you, I had a feeling it was an episode, now that I know which, episode it was, I remember, I haven't seen that one in a while.

About the gates, I belive that in SG-1 they only have two gates, the one in the SGC, that is permanent, and then another smaller one that they use on location. The "A" was probably a mistake. But they could have done it on purpose as a joke.

Owen Macri

6thMonolith
June 1st, 2005, 07:23 PM
Probably a budget thing. :)

_Owen_
June 1st, 2005, 07:25 PM
It is possible, however it doesn't seem likley, the "A" symbol shouldn't even be on the "location gate" unless the prop guys don't know the show very well, which I doubt.

Owen Macri

YodaMate
June 2nd, 2005, 01:01 AM
Hence the need for fanatical fans to come up with an explanation in-universe :)

Perhaps the Ancients try to make PoOs unique, but the limitations of having only 37 usable symbols means that a couple also get used as regular destination symbols and Earth drew the short straw, been such an old location.

If we take what we see onscreen as fact, then we have actually seen two gates besides the alpha with the 'A' symbol : both New Ground 's and the 'beta' gate (Apophis' might not necessarily have one as long as it was on the DHD).

_Owen_
June 2nd, 2005, 09:13 PM
The beta gate had a diffrent point of origin. There are not only 37 useable symbols there are an infinite number, because you can make them look like whatever you want. The gate has 38 symbols and a 39th for point of origin. However the 39th will change for every gate, and with an infinite number of possible symbols there is only one possible reason why we would see the "A" on the "New Ground Gate." The Ancients, and or Asgard, Fulings, and Nox, moved our gate from Earth to the planet in "New Ground" and back again that it could be in two places for the necesary amount of time needed to dial the gate, so bassicaly, the gate was moving so fast between Earth and New Ground Planet that it could dial that area and connect with itself. The times that we saw it only on the New Ground planet, they just moved the gate there and implanted memories into everyone in the SGCs' brain of everything runing as usual, so no one suspected a thing.

Owen Macri

~Thor~
June 3rd, 2005, 02:20 AM
Oh, thank you, I had a feeling it was an episode, now that I know which, episode it was, I remember, I haven't seen that one in a while.

About the gates, I belive that in SG-1 they only have two gates, the one in the SGC, that is permanent, and then another smaller one that they use on location. The "A" was probably a mistake. But they could have done it on purpose as a joke.

Owen Macri
I read somewhere that botht the gates they used on SG-1 were the same size.

_Owen_
June 3rd, 2005, 01:37 PM
I don't remember I just slightly remember hearing that the location gate was smaller, but I could be wrong.

Owen Macri

YodaMate
June 7th, 2005, 12:19 AM
Whoops, i meant 38 useable symbols (however many there are besides the PoO).

And yes, there must be an 'A' symbol on the Antartic gate because we see that gate in use at the SGC throughout Seasons 4 and 5. I'm pretty sure that we've seen them lock in Chevron 7 at the 'A' during Seasons 4 and 5.

If you see a symbol that you haven't seen before, than it's more likely that the symbol in question is the PoO for that location. SG-1 lucked out in Prisoners where that happened to be the case.

Major Tyler
June 7th, 2005, 08:31 AM
Established Fact: The POO is the only unique symbol on any Stargate, and it is always in the same position on the DHD. That's how they find POO in every episode. All other symbols are the same.

"Real" reason for having the http://img141.echo.cx/img141/1199/earthsymbol7ln.gif symbol on the Beta Gate: The Stargate props are already premade and I would assume TPTB hoped that the viewers wouldn't care. I think they're right...it's a descrepancy, sure, but one I can easily ignore. Unlike that crap about everyone speaking English! :rolleyes:

In-Universe Explanation: The Gate Technicians all got sick of looking at the "Iº" glyph, so they met in Walter's garage one night and made an http://img141.echo.cx/img141/1199/earthsymbol7ln.gif faceplate. They came into work early and welded it over the old POO and no one was the wiser...except for Siler who to this day glares suspiciously at the control room. :)

_Owen_
June 7th, 2005, 12:09 PM
Whoops, i meant 38 useable symbols (however many there are besides the PoO).

And yes, there must be an 'A' symbol on the Antartic gate because we see that gate in use at the SGC throughout Seasons 4 and 5. I'm pretty sure that we've seen them lock in Chevron 7 at the 'A' during Seasons 4 and 5.

If you see a symbol that you haven't seen before, than it's more likely that the symbol in question is the PoO for that location. SG-1 lucked out in Prisoners where that happened to be the case.
Major Tyler is correct, there was no "A" symbol on the Beta gate. If you watch the episode "Solitudes" of Season one, you will see that the symbol is clearly not the trademarked "A." I agree with Major Tylers' explination of why the "A" symbol was on the gate.

In the show Stargate SG-1, there is only two gates, there is one gate that is permantly used in the SGC, and one they use on location, it is incredibly likley that they simply continued using that gate, this was an oversight, or they simply hoped that we wouldn't notice.

Owen Macri