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View Full Version : My theory as too why their is no Naquadah on Earth.



The Boz
May 12th, 2005, 03:02 AM
Ok this is my 2 cents as too why their is no naqadah on Earth, which icame about as I was pondering another question. Throughout the stargate seasons we have come to learn that the ancients have spent a lot of time on Earth, as atlantis was either built here or was stationed here for some time. This is the reason why their is no naquadah on Earth, the Ancients used it all! They would of needed lots of it too build the network of stargates in the milky way as well as fuel their technology wouldnt they? So why not mine the Earth completely dry? This however raises the question, why is the Earth today(or 100 years ago anyways) so resource rich in other minerals. I mean, you cant possibly think that atlantis isnt made out of just naquadah. I mean it would have to have heaps of metals and alloys, wouldnt it?

Darkstar
May 12th, 2005, 05:18 AM
naquahdah would be the building blocks behind their great civilisation but how do you know that earth wasent more rich in minerals and raw materials there just happens to be enough left for us to build our civilisation, if you can call it that.
i wonder like we fuse other materials to make alloys did the ancients do the same with naqahdah, there is naquadria but thats just too unstable but maybe they gave the goa'uld the idea first of all???? ;)

the Fifth Race
May 12th, 2005, 05:26 AM
Maybe the Ancients chose Earth as one of there bases because there isn't any Naquadah. Maybe they wanted a place they could live where they did'nt have to worry about other races coming to mine for it?.....

Schrodinger's Cat
May 12th, 2005, 06:14 AM
I've heard that, until a few million years ago, Mars was a low-oxygen world capable of supporting life....maybe the Naquadah was mined there.....because all of the surface naquadah on earth may have been mined....

That may also be the reason why the asteroid in "Fail Safe" had naquadah in it


----Warning...The facts in this post have been "bent" by the poster. They should not be considered to be a reliable source of information.

6thMonolith
May 12th, 2005, 06:57 AM
http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/miscellany/n/naquadah.shtml

Naquadah doesn't exist in our solar system. My theory is that when the galaxy was formed, naquadah was only formed in certain sectors of the galaxy(ZZ9 Plural-Z Alpha?).

immhotep
May 12th, 2005, 07:00 AM
here my theory:
the ancients origionated on earth, they used their technology when advanced enough to actually create an element, naquada in order to build the stargates, after the ancients built the stargates they used a process similar to the kelomwna incident to create naquada deposits on all thier world, enough to support the construction of atlantis, on earth.
no atlantis isnt made of naquada nothing is actually made of naquada becasue its too radiactive, when they say its the building blocks of civilizations, they mean it powers everything not that they actually get bricks of naquada and built a wall.
Atlantis is IMO constructed of trinium or a trinium alloy. this would allow the conductivity the structural strength and they lightness for that sized vessel to fly, if it was built of naquada i assure you it would sink regardless of any technology, naquada is extreamly dense, 'upgrades' prove that.

the Fifth Race
May 12th, 2005, 07:07 AM
I like that idea alot Immo!.....The Ancients actually created it...hmmmmm

I also agree, I believe the Ancients might have originated on Earth.

Anubis69
May 12th, 2005, 07:20 AM
*POSSIBLE ATLANTIS S1 SPOILERS*

Didn't they say in one episode of atlantis that the walls of atlantis were actually pretty weak as if the ancients were ever to inhabit atlantis, they'd have the shield at full power and no need for particularly strengthened walls and hence the water would've destroyed atlantis. but then again, water is a pretty destructive and it was an amazingly strong storm so maybe even the trinium alloy that you suggested was not strong enough to withstand the power of the waves.

Seastallion
May 12th, 2005, 07:30 AM
Actually its not that complicated. All celestial bodies are formed from the materials available to them. Earth, and all the other planets in the solar system don't have Naquadah because it wasn't available in the debris from which the Solar system is formed from. Debris?... you ask??

Yes, debris. From stars that went... BOOM!!! (Super Nova) Naquadah like most other elements are formed from the Fusion process within stars. The hydrogen and other elements within stars are 'fused' together to make heavier elements. Our sun, is not heavy enough to do very heavy elements. Not really anything heavier than Lead. To have such heavy elements as Naquadah, Plutonium, Uranium, etc.... they would have to come from Larger than normal stars that went supernova. Our star won't go supernova because it isn't heavy enough.

The point being... the Naquadah had to originate from very large stars that scattered their debris when they died, and that debris from them eventually came together to form planets, moons, asteroids, and even new stars. So, our solar system simply didn't have such heavy materials available. Even if the Ancients had mined huge amounts of Naquadah from earth, we would still be able to find it, even if only in microscopic amounts. We find extremely rare elements on Earth all the time like that. There is one in particular that is almost perfect for Nuclear Fusion reactors, but of which there is only enough on Earth to experiment with, and no more. However, there is tons of it on the Moon. The reason?? The moon doesn't have a magnetic field... Earth does. The particles of this element are radiated out from the Sun in microscopic amounts, but it has been collecting on the Moon for billions of years. On Earth however, the particles are deflected by the magnetic field and thus there is only trace amounts of it.

About 200 pounds of that element is enough to power the city of Dallas, Texas for an entire year. If Naquadah were anywhere in the solar system, we would likely find at least trace amounts of it. (but not neccessarily... there could be extinuating circumstances) In any case... it wasn't because the Ancients used it all up.

The Ancients did not come from Earth (spoiler for season 9 on Gateworld)

immhotep
May 12th, 2005, 07:50 AM
what is this element thats perfect and is on the moon?

immhotep
May 12th, 2005, 07:52 AM
also as to the GW spoiler for the anceints origin they could simply mean the first town or city the ancients built on earth, perhaps thats the arthurian link, the ancients first city was avalon?

_Owen_
May 12th, 2005, 12:17 PM
We know that the ancients did spend a lot of time on Earth, so this would lead us to believe that they had some kind of permanent structure there, unfortunatley we have not found any. However we also know that the ancients experimented with the creation of life by artificial means, and we know that in there later years they enforced a sort of, "Prime Directive" a "Non-Interference Policy" it could simply be that there is no Naquadah or traces of Ancient civilization on Earth because they removed it all to see how we would evolve without it, thisis just one of many possibilities, I apoligize if someone has previously posted this.

EDIT: The fact that there is no naquadah on Earth or in Earths' solar system is reason to believe that is was removed on purpose, we have not currently seen another system such as ours with no trraces of Naquadah at all.

Owen Macri

immhotep
May 12th, 2005, 02:24 PM
yeah i agree much more with the artifical removal of it that it simply never being here.

_Owen_
May 12th, 2005, 04:06 PM
The chances of the entire galaxy forming with naquadah pretty much everywhere and then having no naquadah in a ceratin region is pretty much impossible. This leaves a couple reasons why there could be no naquadah. Among the many reasons, there is the obvious "artificial removal," theory, and then one I have thought that is a little farther out there... perhaps the entire solar system was artificialy created. This would not be such a challenge for the Ancients.

Owen Macri

lethalfang
May 12th, 2005, 04:28 PM
I still do not know what is naquadah. I'd like to get an explanation somewhere down the line. What is the subatomic makeup of this entity?
If you tell me it is just some chemical elements found in some mineral on an alien planet, I'd say it is physically impossible.
I cannot think of any nuclear structure of an element not in our periodic table that is stable enough to last more than a few seconds.

_Owen_
May 12th, 2005, 04:55 PM
They have never gone into its' subatomic structure, simply because it would confuse O'Neill, however that would definetly be an interesting thing to learn.

They have not gone into what naquadah is in to much detail, we know it is an element, and we know it naturaly occurs throughout our galaxy, and presumably others, but not in our solar system. It is another thing that has not been explored.

Sorry about that, I would like to learn more about it too, but until tptb decide we need to hear about it, we are out of luck.

Owen Macri

Schrodinger's Cat
May 12th, 2005, 07:04 PM
Naquadah may be (and probably is) more common in the rim-ward parts of our galaxy. Our system is close to the rim of our galaxy, as is Abydos. Abydos may be closer to the rim-ward edge of the Galactic arm in which both systems are located.


I'm planning on doing some research on which system Abydos is. I know that it is a trinary system 20 ly away, but not any more than that.....so far.

_Owen_
May 12th, 2005, 07:18 PM
What is your basis for this conclusion. If naquadah is only more common in the rim-ward parts of the galaxy than Earth should still have some trace amounts of the element, yet it has none. This would suggest that Earth is located in one of the farthest solar systems from the galactic rim, which unfortunaly is not true. It is also extremely unlikely that our solar system, would be the only system in our galaxy that we have come across so far that does not contain any naquadah.

According to your theory the gloser you get to the galactic core and the farther you get from the galactic rim the lower concentrations the conentrations of naquadah would be. As I have previously said, Earth would not only need to be in the closest system to the galactic core, but there would also have to be no other solar systems the same distance from the galactic rim.

I would be interested on finding out where abydos is in relation to Earth.

Owen Macri

Schrodinger's Cat
May 12th, 2005, 08:08 PM
Honestly, that post was more of a rant. I was trying to make an argument based on centrifical force, but that isn't the type of post that i'd defend.


also, I'm currently looking up possible canadates for abydos....a world that can be reached within an hour by tel'tac.(based on data from Tangent)

_Owen_
May 12th, 2005, 08:22 PM
Oh ok, but even with the centrifical force of the galaxy, the element naquadah would not be simply "pushed" closer to the outer rim of the galaxy, other elements would have to be pushed as well, actually pretty much everything would have to be moved outwards, planets, other spatial bodies, etc. and there would not be a decline in concentrations of naquadah, there would simply be a point where the planets and solar systems and stars stopped and there was a huge void of space right up to the galactic core, seeing as the centrifical force has pushed everything else outwards past that point.

That seems like an interesting project, however I doubt you will find a suitable cantidate, there are far to many variables, but that doesn't mean don't try. I would be interested to review your findings.

Owen Macri

Schrodinger's Cat
May 12th, 2005, 09:15 PM
That seems like an interesting project, however I doubt you will find a suitable cantidate, there are far to many variables, but that doesn't mean don't try. I would be interested to review your findings.

Owen Macri

I currently think Abydos is in the 36 Ophiuchi system. If an Earth-type planet was in an orbit around 36 Ophiuchi A or 36 Ophiuchi B at a distance of 0.54 AU, or just beyond the orbit of Mercury around our sun, it would have liquid water.

My research is by no means over, as I plan to continue my search for possible Abydos systems.

Seastallion
May 12th, 2005, 09:19 PM
what is this element thats perfect and is on the moon?

I think it is Helium 3. Very rare on Earth, but relatively abundant on the Moon. In the fusion process, much of the energy released is electrical energy so that it can be put to immediate use. Most nuclear processes force you to channel the energy (often heat) that must be channeled into a turbine of some sort to get the energy indirectly. It also releases much less harmful radiation than other nuclear fuel sources. There is only enough on Earth to experiment with, but not enough to fuel a fully operational reactor, for any practical purposes.

Schrodinger's Cat
May 12th, 2005, 09:24 PM
I think it is Helium 3. Very rare on Earth, but relatively abundant on the Moon. In the fusion process, much of the energy released is electrical energy so that it can be put to immediate use. Most nuclear processes force you to channel the energy (often heat) that must be channeled into a turbine of some sort to get the energy indirectly. It also releases much less harmful radiation than other nuclear fuel sources. There is only enough on Earth to experiment with, but not enough to fuel a fully operational reactor, for any practical purposes.

You're right!

I read that in Popular Science.

Seastallion
May 12th, 2005, 09:43 PM
Earth is NOT the only system without Naquadah. In fact Naquadah has been difficult to find for the SGC, despite all the planets they've visited. Naquadah is a 'super' heavy element that is the result of an unusually large star that fuses the elements within enough to create Naquadah. I thought I'd explained this already... Some star systems will have the debris of those heavy stars gone super nova... and many won't. Earth didn't. Also, as advanced as the Ancients were I don't think they would've gotten rid of the Naquadah on Earth for any reason. That wouldn't make any sense at all. If anything they would be interfering with human development... not the opposite. I don't think they created human life as a lab-rat experiment.

The centrifigal force idea is false as well. If anything, Naquadah would be found near the galactic core, not the rim. The oldest, and highest concentration of stars is at the core. This means that the old and very heavy stars would have been their first, where they would have gone super nova and spread their debris out. That debris would begin to collect after many millions of years to form new star systems. The planets that formed from the accretion disc would have veins of Naquadah within them. THAT is how planets get Naquadah. Not all planets will have it, and it isn't restricted to the galactic core or rim. It is simply a roll of the dice... did there use to be a heavy star in that spacial region once, that spread Naquadah when it died or... Not. That is all. If your planet happened to be in that region where the Naquadah was spread, then it got some of it made into its geological makeup... if not, then it didn't. No conspiracies, or anything like that. Just simple cosmological laws. In order for centrifigal force to be of any use, it has to have a very high rate of spin, relative to the diameter of what your spinning. Since stars, and their respective systems are indepentant objects at extreme distances from the core, centrifigal force isn't even a factor. Owen is right... if Naquadah were going to line up around the galactic rim... so would everything else. It doesn't because Gravity is stronger. Naquadah would be among the last elements to head towards the rim, because it is heavier meaning it naturally projects a greater gravitational field of its own. (Negligible in practical terms... but that is why it is heavy. Or Lead for that matter)

Hopefully this cleared up some things. :)

Schrodinger's Cat
May 12th, 2005, 09:46 PM
I think that all Naquadah systems have Population-4 stars.

Darkstar
May 13th, 2005, 01:17 AM
Naquadah may be (and probably is) more common in the rim-ward parts of our galaxy. Our system is close to the rim of our galaxy, as is Abydos. Abydos may be closer to the rim-ward edge of the Galactic arm in which both systems are located.


I'm planning on doing some research on which system Abydos is. I know that it is a trinary system 20 ly away, but not any more than that.....so far.

that is what is theorised at first that naquahdah is only present in either central regions of the galaxy or the mid rim or outer rim one or the other but that would explain why some worlds are rich in this element and others aren't could this be due to the formation of the galaxy, maybe it came from deep space out there where no planets exisist and collected in certain galaxies.
if naquahdah exists in the pegasus galaxy it would not leave the writters strugling to aswer why.


i jave just read the other threads and they have just explained my theory iv'e just wasted my time :(

Seastallion
May 13th, 2005, 01:50 AM
that is what is theorised at first that naquahdah is only present in either central regions of the galaxy or the mid rim or outer rim one or the other but that would explain why some worlds are rich in this element and others aren't could this be due to the formation of the galaxy, maybe it came from deep space out there where no planets exisist and collected in certain galaxies.
if naquahdah exists in the pegasus galaxy it would not leave the writters strugling to aswer why.


i jave just read the other threads and they have just explained my theory iv'e just wasted my time :(

It is a good thing I noticed that last bit on your post... I almost blew my top. :p I had went through that whole explanation, and at first I thought... "WHAT??? Doesn't anyone read my post???" Then I saw the part at the end, and calmed down. *whew* It is all about cosmology. Within that, specifically how stars and planets form. Naquadah is formed by the Fusion process of stars... so it would NEVER make sense that it would come from deep space where no planets exist. That would be like saying, if you run to the end of the rainbow... you'll find a pot of gold...! :rolleyes: It comes from something, not just magically appears. All heavier elements started out as lighter elements. In other words, every piece of lead, or steel you've ever seen in your life... started out as hydrogen gas somewhere out in the cosmos. Then it got pressure cooked within a star, and voila you suddenly have heavy metals and other heavier elements than hydrogen. Then the pressure cooker exploded and got stuff all over the place... Then after a very very long time, some of the stuff in the pressure cooker came together to form a new 'cooker' and some planets too. Imagine that happening countless times at other places... but not all the 'cooker's are making the same stuff... so what the new planets get inside them as a result will depend on what the old cooker was making. Essentially... it is evolution on a cosmic scale. Lots of 'small' changes over eons of time.

oh... and if Naquadah exist in Pegasus, it would be for the same exact reason it exist in the Milky Way. Star Life-cycles and evolution of the universe. ;)

Darkstar
May 13th, 2005, 05:31 AM
It is a good thing I noticed that last bit on your post... I almost blew my top. :p I had went through that whole explanation, and at first I thought... "WHAT??? Doesn't anyone read my post???" Then I saw the part at the end, and calmed down. *whew* It is all about cosmology. Within that, specifically how stars and planets form. Naquadah is formed by the Fusion process of stars... so it would NEVER make sense that it would come from deep space where no planets exist. That would be like saying, if you run to the end of the rainbow... you'll find a pot of gold...! :rolleyes: It comes from something, not just magically appears. All heavier elements started out as lighter elements. In other words, every piece of lead, or steel you've ever seen in your life... started out as hydrogen gas somewhere out in the cosmos. Then it got pressure cooked within a star, and voila you suddenly have heavy metals and other heavier elements than hydrogen. Then the pressure cooker exploded and got stuff all over the place... Then after a very very long time, some of the stuff in the pressure cooker came together to form a new 'cooker' and some planets too. Imagine that happening countless times at other places... but not all the 'cooker's are making the same stuff... so what the new planets get inside them as a result will depend on what the old cooker was making. Essentially... it is evolution on a cosmic scale. Lots of 'small' changes over eons of time.

oh... and if Naquadah exist in Pegasus, it would be for the same exact reason it exist in the Milky Way. Star Life-cycles and evolution of the universe. ;)

yes your explaination mkes sense pity they havnt explained it that well in the series maybe they should take a look at your post perhaps :D

Anubis69
May 13th, 2005, 05:55 AM
It's the same reason trinium seems to be rare to us. given we only know of the odd place that has it ("spirits" to my knowledge) but the asgard obviously have it in abundance ("small victories") and apophis has used it ("upgrades"). like seastallion said, it's all chance. btw, i liked your explanation, it cleared up some confusion i had in my mind.

_Owen_
May 13th, 2005, 12:39 PM
I currently think Abydos is in the 36 Ophiuchi system. If an Earth-type planet was in an orbit around 36 Ophiuchi A or 36 Ophiuchi B at a distance of 0.54 AU, or just beyond the orbit of Mercury around our sun, it would have liquid water.

My research is by no means over, as I plan to continue my search for possible Abydos systems.

Please contact me with more information when your research finishes, there is contact information on my profile, you can contact me through e-mail, or just pm me. This would be very appreciated.

Owen Macri

_Owen_
May 13th, 2005, 12:51 PM
I got the impression that naquadah simply could not be found in large concentrations due to previous mining by the goa'uld, that or it the concentrations were to deep in the planet to equal the cost of mining, but I don't remember them ever specifically saying that another system didn't have any naqudah.

I also believe, the ancients probably did want to experiment, this experimentation was done in may situations, such as that of the Pegasus galaxy, there is only so much experimentation that you can do. The theory is that human life evolved naturaly on Earth like Ancient life, there was no artificial "seeding" of life, so the ancients could have thought, this life evolved naturaly, it should be given the chance to evolve without us screwing with it and possibly destroying it.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 13th, 2005, 02:47 PM
I got the impression that naquadah simply could not be found in large concentrations due to previous mining by the goa'uld, that or it the concentrations were to deep in the planet to equal the cost of mining, but I don't remember them ever specifically saying that another system didn't have any naqudah.

I also believe, the ancients probably did want to experiment, this experimentation was done in may situations, such as that of the Pegasus galaxy, there is only so much experimentation that you can do. The theory is that human life evolved naturaly on Earth like Ancient life, there was no artificial "seeding" of life, so the ancients could have thought, this life evolved naturaly, it should be given the chance to evolve without us screwing with it and possibly destroying it.

Owen Macri

I'm sorry my friend, but the second half of your post especially is wrong. It was specifically stated that the Ancients caused humans to re-evolve on purpose. They did it with the Dakara device that they built to recreate life in the Milky Way. Human evolution was no accident. Much of the last part of season 8 was all about that... particularly 'Reckoning' and 'Threads'. If you haven't seen it yet, you might be unaware... if you have, shame-shame..! :p They didn't seed life to experiment (they weren't cruel like the Goa'uld), they did it to pass on their legacy. The same reason people have children. It is the 'prime directive' of life to spread out, and grow.

As human beings... we have the capacity (in the future, perhaps) not to simply take life to new planets, but to literally bring planets to life. In the real world, there is no finer example than Mars. We may very well colonize Mars one day... but in doing so, we are likely to attempt Terra-forming the planet, and bring Mars to life. In other words, we would make Mars a habitable planet. We would not only take ourselves, but our plants and animals thus preserving them as well. We have the power (and perhaps the responsibility) to preserve all life on our world, and to take that life to other worlds to thrive there as well. (*sigh*...*gets all nostalgic, and dreamy*.. :p ...LOL ) Anywho...

Naquadah is simply another element, like lead. It is formed in the same process as other elements. It isn't special in that sense. Keep in mind... the SGC is ALWAYS hunting for new worlds with Trinium and Naquadah. Yet we only occaisonly hear about worlds they've found with it. If it were as abundant as you've been thinking... then the episodes where they've found it would'nt have been such a big deal. It has been a hit-and-miss effort on the part of the SGC to find planets with such resources. IF it were abundant, the SGC would have little problem in obtaining it. As it is... ;) You get the point. :)

:eek:

Schrodinger's Cat
May 13th, 2005, 05:34 PM
I'm sorry my friend, but the second half of your post especially is wrong. It was specifically stated that the Ancients caused humans to re-evolve on purpose. They did it with the Dakara device that they built to recreate life in the Milky Way. Human evolution was no accident. Much of the last part of season 8 was all about that... particularly 'Reckoning' and 'Threads'. If you haven't seen it yet, you might be unaware... if you have, shame-shame..! :p They didn't seed life to experiment (they weren't cruel like the Goa'uld), they did it to pass on their legacy. The same reason people have children. It is the 'prime directive' of life to spread out, and grow.



The Ancients also acted like Goa'uld, and that is being explored in Atlantis. They seemed to want to be treated as gods, and relocated humans from Earth in order to do so.

These are my rants, and by no means, are they ever meant to imply that any other sentients will ever share the opinions stated in my rants.

Seastallion
May 13th, 2005, 06:29 PM
The Ancients also acted like Goa'uld, and that is being explored in Atlantis. They seemed to want to be treated as gods, and relocated humans from Earth in order to do so.

These are my rants, and by no means, are they ever meant to imply that any other sentients will ever share the opinions stated in my rants.

*triple take...* HUH?!? Where the heck did you get that idea?? When they left for Pegasus, humans hadn't even come close to evolving yet... The humans in the Pegasus galaxy are a result of the Ancients seeding new life, not grabbing humans up from Earth. Also, the Ancients didn't pretend to be gods to the humans in Pegasus. They told them that they were the humans 'ancestors', which was true. Literally, and figuratively. I don't know of even one indication that the Ancients required the humans of Pegasus to worship them. If your thinking of Chaya... bad example. The humans she lived among simply thought she was one of them. She never treated them badly, and on the contrary she made sure they had long and happy lives. That is absolutely NOT Goa'uld like. The Goa'uld would've had them building pyramids and other monuments to their 'glory'. The Goa'uld would've hoarded any and all conveniances and comforts. The Goa'uld would've done experiments on them just for the heck of it. The Ancients never did any of those things. The fact that they were so revered by the humans of Pegasus is no suprise... heck they're revered by humans on Earth. Gee... think of that. The truth is, in many cultures on Earth, people make it a habit of worshiping their ancestors even though their ancestors never asked them for it. Your statement was way off base, and founded on an untruth. I don't say a lie, because you obviously didn't know what you were saying. The humans in Pegasus are a seperate re-evolution of the human race, using precisely the same blue-prints. THAT is where they came from. The Ancients had simply allowed them to develop largely on their own, with a little guidance here and there. At least they did, until the Atlanteans were driven back by the Wraith. After that, the 'Ancestors' became symbols of hope, to a people without hope. They had a paternal attitude towards humans, not the attitude of an overlord. Ok... enough of my rant. :)

_Owen_
May 13th, 2005, 06:43 PM
I am sorry, this was probably explained in Reckoning, unfortunatly as far as I know Reckoning hasn't aired in Canada yet, I managed to catch threads when I was in Folorida a while ago but I haven't seen Reckoning yet.

I know that the Ancients wanted to pass on thier legacy, I deducted this from the fact that they have those repositories. However I did not mean that they experimented, like tortured humans, I meant that they experimented to try to increase or determine the potential of humans, I know that the Ancients wouldn't do the kinds of experiments that you are suggesting.

The only times that they made a big deal out of finding naquadah was in the earlier seasons, if they did not have the technology nor know where to look, finding even a small amount of the element would be a big deal, but as they progressed through the series, they realised that naquadah wasn't so scarce, this big deal simply became a routine excavation.

Owen Macri

_Owen_
May 13th, 2005, 06:48 PM
I agree with Seastallion on this one, I do not think it was the Ancients intentions for less advanced being to view them as gods, but technology can be confused for magic, and magic can be asociated with a god, if the ancients had some device that let them transport from place to place, a personal transporter, it might seem to people that don't knowledge of this technology that they were using magic, or they were gods. This was all despite the ancients attempts to weed them off of the idea that they were somehow gods.

Perhaps you missed an episode or don't have all of your facts straight, but by no means was it the ancients intentions to have less advanced races treat them like gods.

Owen Macri

Schrodinger's Cat
May 14th, 2005, 05:46 AM
My views are both unique and easily misunderstood. I was actually refering to Dagan.

Seastallion
May 14th, 2005, 06:51 AM
My views are both unique and easily misunderstood. I was actually refering to Dagan.

huh?? what? Dagan? Uh... please elaborate. Otherwise, I'm lost. :p

_Owen_
May 14th, 2005, 11:53 AM
Dagan was the Babylonian god of Earth, but what does that have to do with Ancients acting like Goa'uld?

Owen Macri

Schrodinger's Cat
May 14th, 2005, 09:44 PM
Dagan was the Babylonian god of Earth, but what does that have to do with Ancients acting like Goa'uld?

Owen Macri

I'm refering to the planet Dagan, in the Atlantis episode "The Brotherhood".

I'm talking about intentionally taking advantage of the fact that they were worshipped as gods.

The Goa'uld did the same thing, and, because of their genetic memory, have become megalomaniacs.

The Boz
May 15th, 2005, 01:09 AM
I'm refering to the planet Dagan, in the Atlantis episode "The Brotherhood".

I'm talking about intentionally taking advantage of the fact that they were worshipped as gods.

The Goa'uld did the same thing, and, because of their genetic memory, have become megalomaniacs.

Well didnt this get side tracked

_Owen_
May 15th, 2005, 03:47 AM
In that particular situation, the people of that planet were not slaves nor forced to do anything by the ancients. They chose with thier own free will to worship the ancients as gods, and even that was borderlined, they didn't see them as god gods... if you know what I mean.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 15th, 2005, 03:54 AM
I'm refering to the planet Dagan, in the Atlantis episode "The Brotherhood".

I'm talking about intentionally taking advantage of the fact that they were worshipped as gods.

The Goa'uld did the same thing, and, because of their genetic memory, have become megalomaniacs.

The Ancients merely asked those people to keep the ZPM hidden safely away until they returned... that was all. I don't ever remember that they required those people to worship them, or give them tribute or anything else of the sort. It would be a safe bet to say, that ALL humans would mostly revere the Ancients. Heck, even Rodney McKay reveres the Ancients, even if he doesn't always show it. I think you took something simple and really misconstrued it into something it wasn't.

... Boz is right... this thread has gotten off track. I won't say anything else about it on this thread. :)

Seastallion
May 15th, 2005, 03:55 AM
I like your new signature Owen... :) Oh, and Naquadah is cool... :p LOL

_Owen_
May 15th, 2005, 04:00 AM
Oh, thank you, Blingaway made it for me, I tried to make one, but I only had Paint, it didn't look as good and it wasn't good quality because I had to shrink it manualy. But now it looks good, Blingaway made it for me. Did I say that already? lol.

Thank you Seastallion

Owen Macri

P.S. Right, Naquadah is cool.

NotAllowedToNameAnything.Ever.
May 15th, 2005, 07:12 PM
Okay it has been discovered that there or minor deffrences in some minerals found on the moon and mars then here on earth. Maybe naguada requires something to form that earth dosen't have, maybe a stronger or weaker maganetic feild. maybe amount of gravity. Who knows it could be a element common on earth just molculer deffrent by its formattion in a deffrent star system. Just A thought.

_Owen_
May 15th, 2005, 07:24 PM
It would have to have none of the same atomic structure for us not to find any or realise it, with a diffrent atomic structure the element would be diffrent.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 16th, 2005, 01:52 AM
Okay it has been discovered that there or minor deffrences in some minerals found on the moon and mars then here on earth. Maybe naguada requires something to form that earth dosen't have, maybe a stronger or weaker maganetic feild. maybe amount of gravity. Who knows it could be a element common on earth just molculer deffrent by its formattion in a deffrent star system. Just A thought.

:( I wanna cry... *weeps uncontrolably* *dries tears* Ok, I'm a little better now. Ok... Dear, NotAllowed... please, please, please go back and read some of my previous threads. I swear, I don't know how to explain it better than I already have. The creation of Naquadah would have nothing to do with Earth's magnetic field or any other Earth's watchyama'callit. It is all about those nice stars I mentioned earlier. ;) Check it out... :p Please??? :D

:eek:

_Owen_
May 16th, 2005, 12:59 PM
When I saw that post I was going to say something like that but I thought I would leave it to you. I noticed as well that it was right after you posted your replies. No offence NotAllowedToNameAnything.Ever, it is very easy to miss posts, I have done it before.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 16th, 2005, 06:03 PM
When I saw that post I was going to say something like that but I thought I would leave it to you. I noticed as well that it was right after you posted your replies. No offence NotAllowedToNameAnything.Ever, it is very easy to miss posts, I have done it before.

Owen Macri

Yeah, I just couldn't bare the thought of explaining it yet... again. There is only so much repeating oneself that can be done. I figure I'm at my limit on this thread about the explaining the specific question of this thread. However, I am happy to elaborate on what has already been said. That is different, because your not going over the same stuff all over again. :)

_Owen_
May 16th, 2005, 06:15 PM
I agree there have been several threads where I have had to repeat my self, it does get incredibly boring and anoying.

Owen Macri

Avatar28
May 16th, 2005, 06:18 PM
Okay, gotta step into this one. First of all, the element on the moon that was mentioned IS Helium-3. What makes it so great is that it is the cleanest form of fusion available. Other forms, Deuterium-Deuterium and Deuterium-Tritium both release large amounts of free neutrons which, due to neutron capture, causes the walls of the reactor to become radioactive and they must eventually be replaced and disposed of. It also releases a larger amount of energy than some times of fusion (though it's not quite the most energetic type).

Second, as for what Naquada is, it is almost certainly a heavier element beyond what we currently have on our periodic charts. Traditionally, the further an element's atomic number is beyond uranium, the more unstable it becomes. The highest created elements have half lives measured in the thousandths of seconds in most cases. However, it has been theorized that there may be an island of stability a little further up the periodic table where elements again become stable. It may be that Naquada is in that island and thus is relatively stable. Naquadria is most likely related to naquada in the same way that plutonium is related to uranium.

Third, the sun cannot even make elements like Lead, etc. In fact, it will probably never fuse anything much heavier than carbon. ALL elements above iron are created in supernovas. Iron is incapable of sustaining fusion. While fusion of elements up to that point create energy, fusion of iron and heavier elements actually TAKES energy. That's what causes a supernova.

Seastallion
May 16th, 2005, 06:34 PM
Okay, gotta step into this one. First of all, the element on the moon that was mentioned IS Helium-3. What makes it so great is that it is the cleanest form of fusion available. Other forms, Deuterium-Deuterium and Deuterium-Tritium both release large amounts of free neutrons which, due to neutron capture, causes the walls of the reactor to become radioactive and they must eventually be replaced and disposed of. It also releases a larger amount of energy than some times of fusion (though it's not quite the most energetic type).

Second, as for what Naquada is, it is almost certainly a heavier element beyond what we currently have on our periodic charts. Traditionally, the further an element's atomic number is beyond uranium, the more unstable it becomes. The highest created elements have half lives measured in the thousandths of seconds in most cases. However, it has been theorized that there may be an island of stability a little further up the periodic table where elements again become stable. It may be that Naquada is in that island and thus is relatively stable. Naquadria is most likely related to naquada in the same way that plutonium is related to uranium.

Third, the sun cannot even make elements like Lead, etc. In fact, it will probably never fuse anything much heavier than carbon. ALL elements above iron are created in supernovas. Iron is incapable of sustaining fusion. While fusion of elements up to that point create energy, fusion of iron and heavier elements actually TAKES energy. That's what causes a supernova.

Cool. :p However, it is still a stellar process. So... even if it is under very special circumstances my general explanations still stands. :) Stars are creating those elements regardless of when and under what specific set of circumstances. That was my only real point anyways. So... Rock On...!!!! :D

_Owen_
May 16th, 2005, 06:54 PM
I still think that the ancients could have removed the elements so as, to observe how humans evolve without the element. It is possible that the ancients evolved with it and all of thier technology was based on it, so when they got the opportunity to see how, and if a race, how and if, they would and could have evolved without it.

Owen Macri

Schrodinger's Cat
May 16th, 2005, 07:05 PM
It's all about the supernovae....there are so many possible stellar nebulae, planetary nebulae, stellar formations, spectral patterns, star types, ... ad nauesum

Schrodinger's Cat
May 16th, 2005, 07:16 PM
I still think that the ancients could have removed the elements so as, to observe how humans evolve without the element. It is possible that the ancients evolved with it and all of thier technology was based on it, so when they got the opportunity to see how, and if a race, how and if, they would and could have evolved without it.

Owen Macri

But.....their tech isn't based on naquadah......

Atlantis was probably built with earth-based materials......considering where it was built, I'm not suprised....

All of Atlantis's Trinium and Naquadah seems to have come from Earth......a year ago.....

If they're so advanced, how come we can put a hyperdrive in an F-302, but they can't even put sheilds on their Puddle Jumpers?

_Owen_
May 16th, 2005, 07:22 PM
In the Stargate universe naquadah based technology is fairly primitve compared to the technology at hand. Atlantis was one of the ancients later creations, by that time they had found new, more advanced technology that was far more effective. However the it is reasonable to assume that thier technology was once based on naquadah, the milky way stargates are proof of that. Atlantis stargates are probably not made of naquadah, because they found a new type of material or technology that was more efficient. I hope they talk about the gates in season two, I am suprised that Mckay didn't mention it right away.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 17th, 2005, 07:39 AM
I'm sorry Owen, but I still disagree with your 'experiment' thoery. The Ascended Ancients don't care, and the rest all died long before humans on Earth evolved. So what would be the point?? Your assuming one explanation, where a more likely one is present. Humans evolved on Earth because the Ancients wanted their civilization to survive in some form. They knew very well that humans would have to advance on their own one way or another. We were well on our way to advancing with or without Naquadah which isn't the end all or be all of technological advancement, as I believe you yourself stated.

Schrodinger, you can't assume that Atlantis was built using Earth only materials. Heck, the Prometheus and Dadaealus were built on Earth, by they don't have all Earth materials. Do they?? Nope, they don't. The Ancients could just have easily (more easily actually) brought all the exotic materials they needed throught the gate or by ship. For that matter, they might have been able to create some of the materials they needed. Who knows? I don't. In any case, if Trinium or Naquadah were native to Earth, it would be found in many places even if only as microscopic samples. Given how much of the Earth we've explored, we'd have found it already. Anyhow, it is a moot point... the show has already stated for a fact that those specific elements are NOT native too Earth. So, that ends that.

As to Puddlejumpers... I don't think they were ever meant to be military craft... just transports. I agree though, it shouldn't have been hard to give them hyperdrives or shields... perhaps since they were specifically designed to go through the gate, it was felt those things weren't needed. After all, when the puddlejumpers were built, they had warships and such. PuddleJumpers are basically glorified taxis... :p (weapons would be useful for more than just combat... destroying asteroids or some odd job is also a possibility. :) )

_Owen_
May 17th, 2005, 02:14 PM
I wasn't assuming that this was the only possible solution, I was just stating that it seems, to me, likley. We know the ancients were in the business of seeding life, and I am not disputing the fact the ancients wanted to pass on thier legacy, am just saying, perhaps, if the ancients evolved with naquadah, and every other race that they new evolved with naquadah, since they were already seeding life there, why not remove the one element that all or most of thier technology was based on and see how they would evolve with out it. The ancients were also in the business of exploring, both space, science, and other things such as evolution.

Owen Macri

kesterr
June 16th, 2005, 11:22 AM
I wasn't assuming that this was the only possible solution, I was just stating that it seems, to me, likley. We know the ancients were in the business of seeding life, and I am not disputing the fact the ancients wanted to pass on thier legacy, am just saying, perhaps, if the ancients evolved with naquadah, and every other race that they new evolved with naquadah, since they were already seeding life there, why not remove the one element that all or most of thier technology was based on and see how they would evolve with out it. The ancients were also in the business of exploring, both space, science, and other things such as evolution.

Owen Macri
I agree for the most part about this however not all there tec is baced on naquda in fact i havent seen much if any ancients tec ( aside from the stargate) has naquda and lets face it when your as smart as the ancients who needs naquda.

_Owen_
June 16th, 2005, 11:53 AM
Well, there is the Stargates, they are made of Naqudah, but you are right, there is a lot of Ancient technology, that might not be made of naquadah.

Owen Macri

immhotep
June 16th, 2005, 12:34 PM
The ZPM's for one, the dakara and WoO device are others, atlantis is another. maybe the stargates are just made of naquada becuase they have to be, it they only thing they can use.
IMO the ancinets created naquada in a lab and then done a fallout on all the world they thought they could get away with it and left earth to be deviod of it because they wanted to make sure earth wasnt destroyed if everything went wrong and planets got blown apart ect.
JMO immhotep.

_Owen_
June 16th, 2005, 02:14 PM
Some of those things have not been stated, that they were made of naquadah.

The Stargate doesn't need to be made of Naquadah, in the episode, "Asenscion" Orlin, built a gate with only materials found on Earth.

Owen Macri

BackStageJim
June 16th, 2005, 03:18 PM
Actually we are lucky that the naqadah is gone. With all our underground testing of nuclear weapons, it could have become naquadra ... and Earth go boom.

Jarnin
June 16th, 2005, 07:40 PM
As to Puddlejumpers... I don't think they were ever meant to be military craft... just transports. I agree though, it shouldn't have been hard to give them hyperdrives or shields... perhaps since they were specifically designed to go through the gate, it was felt those things weren't needed. After all, when the puddlejumpers were built, they had warships and such. PuddleJumpers are basically glorified taxis... :p (weapons would be useful for more than just combat... destroying asteroids or some odd job is also a possibility. :) )
I have a feeling the power plant on a PJ hasn't got enough output to run a bunch of defensive and offensive systems. The drones are pretty much self contained weapons, so they don't require much power to use. Shields or energy weapons would draw from the PJ's power plant, which is probably why they're not normally found on PJs.

_Owen_
June 16th, 2005, 07:45 PM
The puddle jumper does not have an onboard power plant, that might be a little big, it just has some type of battery or energy generator.

It is likley that the power source would be able to power a lot of technology, it is Ancient, they have kick... power generators.

Owen Macri

Jarnin
June 16th, 2005, 08:05 PM
The puddle jumper does not have an onboard power plant, that might be a little big, it just has some type of battery or energy generator.
Owen, you DO realize that a battery or energy generator IS a power plant, right? It supplies the power to the ship.

It is likley that the power source would be able to power a lot of technology, it is Ancient, they have kick... power generators.

Owen Macri
They've never once talked about the power plant in a PJ in either series. Considering that a PJ hasn't got a hyperdrive, shields or energy weapons, the PJ has no need for a kick @$$ power plant.

_Owen_
June 16th, 2005, 08:19 PM
Yes, technically it does supply power to the ship and is a power plant, but I was just clarifying, because most people think of a power plant as some huge nuclear facility.

In the episode "It's Good To Be King," Carter re-routes power from the time travel device because the power suply that is normally used for the normal functions of the Puddle Jumper had been depleted. The Puddle Jumper must have a power supply or many functions of it would not work: The Lights, the dhd, the door, etc.

Owen Macri

Jarnin
June 16th, 2005, 08:29 PM
Yes, technically it does supply power to the ship and is a power plant, but I was just clarifying, because most people think of a power plant as some huge nuclear facility.

In the episode "It's Good To Be King," Carter re-routes power from the time travel device because the power suply that is normally used for the normal functions of the Puddle Jumper had been depleted. The Puddle Jumper must have a power supply or many functions of it would not work: The Lights, the dhd, the door, etc.

Owen Macri
Yeah, I remember that now. Apparently the Time Jumpers had two power plants, one for the ship functions and one specifically for the flux capacitor.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the PJ probably runs on something like a Naquadah generator; they're small and seem to be able to run for fairly long durations without refueling. Not to mention that if they're not activated, they shouldn't use up any fuel at all, which would explain why they could sit in the hanger for 10,000 years without needing to be fueled up.

Geez, I guess we should stay on topic, huh?

_Owen_
June 16th, 2005, 08:33 PM
...one specifically for the flux capacitor.

lol, as Mckay said, "Don't even get me started on that."

It is entirley possible that they use naquadah generators, however it is just as likley that they use some sort of power generator that we have not encountered as of yet.

Owen Macri

6thMonolith
June 16th, 2005, 08:35 PM
Gotta link it back to why there's no Naquadah on Earth...

_Owen_
June 16th, 2005, 10:23 PM
Lol, How are we going to do that?

Owen Macri

Jarnin
June 16th, 2005, 10:38 PM
This is why Naquadah doesn't exist on Earth, or in our solar system. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transuranic)

_Owen_
June 16th, 2005, 10:49 PM
Yes, however Naquadah is a stable element, so no matter what its' atomic number it would have to be stable, and have an incredibly long half-life, look at the Stargates, they are made of naquadah and they are millions of years old, so, in the Stargate universe, naquadah could have an incredibly high atomic number and still be a stable element. The Naquadah has obviously been along for a long time, and I don't imagine that we will be seeing any beta decay from the gate anytime soon, so I can reasonably assume that Naquadah is a stable element, and does not naturally occur on Earth for another reason, possibly more than one.

Owen Macri