Secrets (209)

[GateWorld]

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<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>SECRETS</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 209</FONT>
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Jackson discovers that his wife has returned to Abydos, and is nine months pregnant with the son of Apophis. O'Neill must keep the secret of the Stargate program from being uncovered.

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[bcmilco]

This is one of my favorite s2 episodes.

We get to see Sha're again, Apophis stops by, so does Heru'ur.

Love Jack throwing the knife at the end and Carter's line about 'You remembered that the sheild's deflective capabilities are directly proportional to the amount of kinetic energy.'
Jack: 'yeah... right' :p

We also get to see one of my favorite secondary characters introduced: Jacob. :)

[KorbenDirewolf]

Also get to see the SGC blamed for the death of a reporter. ;)

[bcmilco]

Ah, but it was an "accident" ;)

My guess is the Pentagon got wind of the reporter and decided to "take care" of him. I have nothing to back that up, that's just what I find the most believable espeically given Jack's reaction to Hammond's statement.

[KorbenDirewolf]

I'd lean more towards one of Maybourne's bunch... But its hard to tell from what's shown.

[bcmilco]

Yes, but what would Mayborne's motive to kill him be?

The Pentagon would want to keep their top secret project a secret.

[KorbenDirewolf]

Maybe not Maybourne specifically, but one of his associates. After all, things like that tend to be more their style. Of course, it could have actually have been an accident.

[bcmilco]

Of course, it could have actually have been an accident.

Wouldn't that just be so ironic ;)

[SeaBee]

I must admit, I thought that the reporters death was a little odd. It was never really followed up on. It's almost as if it was put in as a feed for a later ep. which never got made. Perhaps it was felt to be too contraversial?

[Selmak]

The first episode with Jacob Carter.

[Selmak]

I like the O'Niel with 1 "L" or 2 thing.

[Selmak]

if you didn't know it is a reference to the movie O'Niel.

[Bagpuss]

Love Jack throwing the knife at the end and Carter's line about 'You remembered that the sheild's deflective capabilities are directly proportional to the amount of kinetic energy.'
Jack: 'yeah... right' :p
I have to admit that this was one of the few times I've found the technobabble annoyingly contrived .
IMO anyway ! ;)


We also get to see one of my favorite secondary characters introduced: Jacob. :)
Oh yes indeed ! :D

[Asgard Buddy]

For me it was one of those "If only!" episodes.

If only they had gotten Sha're off of Abydos faster then they would have had Amonet in custody and they could have had her removed when they met the Tok'ra... ugh.

[Jwizzman]

if you didn't know it is a reference to the movie O'Niel.
cool, didn't know that but I looked it up and it's true

the only thing that bugs me about this episode is that they suddenly forgot all about thor's new hammer...why the hell didn't they go there...plain old stupid if you ask me.

[Wyrminarrd]

Wasn´t thors hammer destroyed in the episode where it was first shown?

And about the death of the reporter, I´d have thought it was the NID that was behind that death.

[KorbenDirewolf]

Thor's Hammer was blown up in "Thor's Hammer", in "Thor's Chariot" Thor says they're going to build a new one, but not that its fixed now.

[Major Fischer]

And about the death of the reporter, I´d have thought it was the NID that was behind that death.

Personally, I think Hammond was behind the reporter's death. Or at least the SGC.

[Wyrminarrd]

Personally, I think Hammond was behind the reporter's death. Or at least the SGC.

That would be completely out of character for Hammond, he´s always been portrait as the all around good guy and having him be behind the cold blood (though needed) murder of an american civilian would be wrong.

The ultimate answer would of course be that it was infact just an accident, that would so make the death scene be funny :D

[Major Fischer]

Maybe not Hammond personally, but someone within the air force part of the government. After all, Jack goes off to pump him for information, and thus 'marking' the reporter. That way someone knows to go run down the guy with the air force colonel.

[Wyrminarrd]

Given how the NID operates it´s not unreasonable that they keep a close eye on Jack plus they may have been alerted by the reports earlier snooping and only realised how serious things were when they bugged the conversation between Jack and the reporter.

[greytop]

Maybe not Maybourne specifically, but one of his associates. After all, things like that tend to be more their style. Of course, it could have actually have been an accident.
Maybe Kinsey ordered the killing or Col. Simmions.

[Baal_Lord]

that guy shouldnt have died, tehy coudl ahve at least told him he can not tell anyoen or he will be put into a air force prison, maximum security. It was barberic, it almost lie, something kinsey would think of....sry that is what he woud think of

[TheWarrior]

One thing that I thought of last night after watching it was what did Her-ur do after SG-1 left.

Did Her-ur just leave or did he ring more Jaffa down after to see if SG-1 were still there or if Apophis had come through the gate?

When Teal'c said to Her-ur "Serpent Guards of Apophis have taken the child my Lord", didn't Her-ur wonder how they got there before him (ship possible but his mothership would have detected them) and then when the gate dialled up Her-ur said "Apophis comes stand ready". But why would Apophis come through the gate if the child was taken as the Serpent Guards would have taken Amounent as well!

One thing that I thought about was - we know when a Goa'uld is killed another takes their place and their planets, so after Ra was killed why didn't Her-ur claim Abydos as his planet, as he was next in line for it. Thats why I thought what did Her-ur do after SG-1 left - he could have claimed that planet as his own!

[KorbenDirewolf]

Maybe Heru-ur is paranoid?

[greytop]

Maybe Heru-ur is paranoid?
To me, all Gou'ald are paranoid. :eek:

[LMichelle]

I loved this ep because it centered on Daniel and Sha're. It was such an emotional episode for Daniel and MS portrayed Daniel's pain and anguish perfectly.

A few things bothered me about it. Sha're has been on Abydos for "more than a season" according to Kasuf. We don't know how long that is in earth time, but it's obviously awhile. Did Kasuf not wonder why his daughter had returned to the planet and pregnant to boot? Also, when Sha're returned to the planet didn't she wonder where Daniel was? Daniel seemed surprised that it was Apophis' child. Well, who else's would it have been, Daniel?

Sha're was obviously racked with guilt as to what happened to her, but Daniel reassured her there was "nothing to forgive." How come she couldn't have told him she loved him? There were a couple of instances where she could have said I love you to him. Perhaps she still felt unworthy of his love after she had become Apophis' queen. Her last words were forgive me right before the child was born.

Lisa Michelle

[Uncle Dick]

One thing that I thought about was - we know when a Goa'uld is killed another takes their place and their planets, so after Ra was killed why didn't Her-ur claim Abydos as his planet, as he was next in line for it. Thats why I thought what did Her-ur do after SG-1 left - he could have claimed that planet as his own!
In the feature, it's established that the residents of Abydos no longer believe in the false gods. After the Abydonians revolt, Ra begins to leave the planet just as he left Earth after it became ungovernable. I don't think any Gou'ald would be accepted as ruler over Abydos anymore, and the planet poses no direct threat to the System Lords. They probably don't care about it anymore.

[KorbenDirewolf]

The Goa'uld tend not to care if they are accepted as rulers.

[Uncle Dick]

The Goa'uld tend not to care if they are accepted as rulers.
I think they do. If they aren't, how can they force the populace to mine Naquadah for them.

[zats]

Sure, they could. Did the prisoners in "Need" look especially happy to you? Or the baddies on Netu? Look what they did to Cassie's homeworld. Just dangle a threat of instantaneous death over someone's head and they'll generally do anything you want them to.

[Elite Anubis Guard]

this is one of my favorite episodes from season2, some nice advances on the next seasons aim aswell as general goa'uld info.

really enjoyed this episodes!

[Beatrice Otter]

To me, all Gou'ald are paranoid. :eek:
You're not paranoid if they really are out to get you.

[Beatrice Otter]

I loved this ep because it centered on Daniel and Sha're. It was such an emotional episode for Daniel and MS portrayed Daniel's pain and anguish perfectly.

A few things bothered me about it. Sha're has been on Abydos for "more than a season" according to Kasuf. We don't know how long that is in earth time, but it's obviously awhile. Did Kasuf not wonder why his daughter had returned to the planet and pregnant to boot? Also, when Sha're returned to the planet didn't she wonder where Daniel was? Daniel seemed surprised that it was Apophis' child. Well, who else's would it have been, Daniel?

I think Kasuf did wonder, but didn't press his daughter when she didn't want to talk about it. Remember, at this point he really knows very little of the world beyond Abydos; almost anything could have happened. I'm sure Sha're wondered where Daniel was, but didn't want to seek him out for fear of rejection (she was dead sure he was gonna blame her for being pregnant, remember). And as to Daniel being surprised that it was Apophis' child, well, the man was in shock and not thinking clearly. If he had been, he would have taken her back to the SGC much earlier than he did.

[Beatrice Otter]

Yes, but what would Mayborne's motive to kill him be?

The Pentagon would want to keep their top secret project a secret.
So do the NID. It's a lot easier to control something top secret than something that's headline news.

[Beatrice Otter]

The first episode with Jacob Carter.
Yeah. And while he is now one of my favorite characters, you can't deny that he's a huge SOB in this episode. A real jerk. Ah, well, Selmak was a good influence.

Actually, that's one of the reasons I like the Tok'ra; Jacob is a much nicer guy after he's blended.

[D.C.]

This episode is probably one of my all time favourites. It took on lots of arcs from Apophis to Jacob Carter. Hopefully Season Eight and Nine will have more great episodes like this.

[Sha're]

I'll agree and say that this episode is another of my favourites from this season.
MS does a great job, and really conveys his love for Sha're. And I think as well that Apophis proves his love for Amonet where he touches her cheek as she asks for forgiveness - I still say he's a great baddie.
I liked Jack's reaction to Hammond when the reporter was killed - not directly questioning but unbelieving just the same.
And Jacob Carter - I'll just agree and say thank goodness for Selmak.

[Chaka's_Mum]

I agree about Jacob too. He spends pretty much all of the time in 'Secrets' focusing on what he's going to do for Sam's career - which strings he's pulled and so on. It doesn't seem to occur to him at any time that she's more than happy where she is. You don't get the Air Force Medal for being bored and unmotivated, do you? At least, I assume you don't.

On the other hand, you could quite justifiably put a lot of his behaviour down to his lymphoma diagnosis. The prognosis wasn't exactly desperate at that stage, but the word 'Cancer' casts a dread shadow. He knew that Sam had dreamed of entering the Space Programme when she was younger, that she'd missed her chance after the Challenger disaster put things on hold and that this was his opportunity to get her what he still thought she hankered for (he has no idea, of course, that she's been into space quite a few times by now and doesn't need to do it strapped into a small capsule attached to several tons of highly dangerous combustible materials).

He was viewing it as what could, quite possibly, be his last chance to get Sam what he thought she wanted. The biggest problem is that what she's doing now not only whacks the Space Programme right into a cocked hat, it's also classified so she can't give him a decent reason why she's knocking him back (other than the 'I'm happy where I am now' routine, which may be true but still sounds dead lame). To him, she's turning down a Chance Of A Lifetime that he's pulled all those strings to get for her - and purely so she can stare at computer screens and stuff all day. I guess you can understand him being just a tad hacked off with this - even though he really only has himself to blame for his big gesture plunging to earth in a fireball.

Having said that, leaving her with the 'I've got Cancer, Sam. Byee' routine wasn't particularly paternal! Blending with Selmak was the best thing that ever could have happened to him, and it certainly put him firmly into 'Chaka's Mum's favourite recurring characters' list. The only problem I have is working out whether he's number one or Bra'tac is...;)

[Albion]

I always enjoy watching this episode. I love all of the scenes in Washington:

* The warm companionable relationship between Jack and Sam
* Jack's reaction to meeting Jacob
* Jack's interactions with Armin Zelig. Despite the fact that he was intent on screwing up our heroes, Zelig was a likeable character. Which made his death and the suspicions surrounding it, much more poignant. Also like the medal scene later, RDA does a great job of showing what he's feeling without having to say a word there. Beautifully done and great to watch.
* All of the scenes with Jacob and Sam.

The companion plotline back on Abydos interested me a little less, but still has some fine moments in it, especially the scenes between Teal'c and Daniel as the latter wrestles with his emotions. And Sha'ra and Daniel are always excellent together on screen. Things pick up for me here though when the D/S relationship scenes are out of the way and we get into the more action-orientated scenes. Particular moments I love watching:

*Teal'c whacking Daniel behind the knees. LOL. Never fails to make me chuckle.
* Jack's reaction to stepping through the stargate and finding more than he bargained on waiting for him.
* Basically everything from that point on till the end credits <g>.
* Jack's 'Was thinking about it" and throwing the knife. I just love the totally natural way he snaps free the knife before doing that. Like it's something he's been doing his whole life. Never get tired watching him do that so smoothly.
* Jack correcting Teal'c "It's a long story..."
* Sam's comment about the shield and Jack's response.
* Sha're/Amounet looking directly at Daniel, but not giving him away.
* The fact that Daniel doesn't just say 'fine' when Jack asks him if he's okay, but says he isn't, but will be. Just adore that moment.

Great episode all round.

Albion :)

[Piranha]

Really good episode. Heru'ur and Apophis appearances are excellent. I also like the Horus guards. They look much better than the serpent guards.

[Chaka's_Mum]

* Jack's 'Was thinking about it" and throwing the knife. I just love the totally natural way he snaps free the knife before doing that. Like it's something he's been doing his whole life. Never get tired watching him do that so smoothly.


Did Sky show a cut version of this? I'll have to check my DVD version, but (this happens dead quick, I know) it looks like Jack draws his knife, chucks it - and it just suddenly appears in the middle of Heru'ur's palm. It wasn't shown reaching its target - either in flight or arriving. OK, I guess it was inevitable, as they were showing it at teatime, but it still bugs me when that happens. :(

Mind you, I'd like to know how they fix it so that the Serpent and Horus guards can see out of their helmets. Given that the actual eyes are usually way above the Jaffa's heads and the 'neck' of the mask is covering their faces, how do they know which way they're going, and why don't we see more of them having a Star Wars Stormtrooper accident? ;)

[RubyRed]

i just saw this episode yersterday and Daniel's wife had lipstic on. i thought they didn't have lipstick in abathos

[Madeleine]

The ancient Egyptians wore make-up, so the Abydosians probably had it too.

[Chaka's_Mum]

Apart from putting a bit of colour on the face, it also protected delicate skin from the sun - hence the thick eye makeup (if you're going to spread gunk on your face, you might as well make it look tidy!). I don't imagine the Egyptians back then were any more welcoming of crow's feet than we are today. I know I'm not welcoming mine. Bah, being an Unas, they're more like trenches than crows feet... :D

Mind you, given its practical purpose, pretty much everyone wore it - even if it was just a mixture of dark ash and olive-oil. To all intents and purposes, it's probable that all the Abydonian women would have had some form of makeup, even if it was just the basic mixes. Ammonet, naturally, would have had much more spectacular stuff (as we saw when she rejoined Apophis at the end).

[Beatrice Otter]

I hadn't thought of that, but eye makeup could be made to serve the same purpose as the streaks NFL linebackers put under their eyes--cuts down on the glare. Which, in the desert, is no small consideration. And as someone who has constant problems with chapped lips, I understand the strategic use of lipstick.

[Chaka's_Mum]

Olive Oil got used for all sorts of things back then. They used it as a moisturiser and after-sun lotion too. The Romans used it as a primitive form of soap (and its a safe bet the Egyptians did, too). Hey, they even cooked with it! :D

[ShimmeringStar]

Apart from putting a bit of colour on the face, it also protected delicate skin from the sun - hence the thick eye makeup (if you're going to spread gunk on your face, you might as well make it look tidy!). I don't imagine the Egyptians back then were any more welcoming of crow's feet than we are today. I know I'm not welcoming mine. Bah, being an Unas, they're more like trenches than crows feet... :D

Mind you, given its practical purpose, pretty much everyone wore it - even if it was just a mixture of dark ash and olive-oil. To all intents and purposes, it's probable that all the Abydonian women would have had some form of makeup, even if it was just the basic mixes. Ammonet, naturally, would have had much more spectacular stuff (as we saw when she rejoined Apophis at the end).And remember... we the viewers are supposed to ignore all the makeup & lipstick and eyeliner used to when their intent is to make the actor character look 'natural.' Even when you are questioning what's she doing with lipstick on... (Or Teal'c with all the eyeshadow and eyeliner! :p :D ) (Or even Sam out in the middle of a firefight with lipstick perfectly reapplied.... ;) :p :D )

[ShimmeringStar]

I'll agree and say that this episode is another of my favourites from this season.
MS does a great job, and really conveys his love for Sha're. And I think as well that Apophis proves his love for Amonet where he touches her cheek as she asks for forgiveness - I still say he's a great baddie.
I liked Jack's reaction to Hammond when the reporter was killed - not directly questioning but unbelieving just the same.
And Jacob Carter - I'll just agree and say thank goodness for Selmak.
Yep! Apophis (and later Ba’al)... Two baddies you luv to hate…. :) :D

[ShimmeringStar]

Yeah. And while he is now one of my favorite characters, you can't deny that he's a huge SOB in this episode. A real jerk. Ah, well, Selmak was a good influence.

Actually, that's one of the reasons I like the Tok'ra; Jacob is a much nicer guy after he's blended.Yes, back then Jacob was quite the hard-nosed, hard-lined military man use to getting things done the way he wanted them. (I remember a later ep where Jacob was talking to Jack about being right and Sam says “Welcome to my world…”) It brought to light that at this point in the series Jacob hadn’t really talked to her in a while and still thought of her as a young child who needed direction and assistance. He was bringing up her childhood ambitions (and maybe that of his own…being of an age when he himself couldn’t have gone into the space program himself) and he assumed that was still what she wanted. Sam for her part was still unwilling to butt heads with him.

I really liked the whole Sam/Jack meeting Dad scene. Jack was comfortable enough to call her “Sam” instead of by her rank or last name. Though she still persisted in the ‘sir’ bit. *laughs* And Jack calling Hammond ‘a player.’ :p :D

[Chaka's_Mum]

It brought to light that at this point in the series Jacob hadn’t really talked to her in a while and still thought of her as a young child who needed direction and assistance.

That 'little girl who needs guidance' view does rather seem to be a bit of a 'dad' thing, doesn't it?

Mind you, given that he's so 'out of the loop' on Sam's aspirations and ambitions, I suppose it was inevitable that he'd try to give her one last big gift (in his mind) of granting her what he still thought was her 'dream'. He doesn't know that she's found something else that she's settled with (even if it's only Deep Space Telemetry - or so he thinks!).

There's probably elements of certain events in the past that have brought this about - but we don't know about them yet, so there were times in this ep where I really wanted to bop Jacob for being so stroppy with Sam! I'm not sure how I'd react if someone offered me something amazing, but nowhere near as amazing as what I've already got (but can't tell anyone about); particularly as he more or less cornered her with it. I don't imagine I'd be able to explain myself any better than Sam could...

[SmartFox]

One thing that I thought of last night after watching it was what did Her-ur do after SG-1 left.

Did Her-ur just leave or did he ring more Jaffa down after to see if SG-1 were still there or if Apophis had come through the gate?

When Teal'c said to Her-ur "Serpent Guards of Apophis have taken the child my Lord", didn't Her-ur wonder how they got there before him (ship possible but his mothership would have detected them) and then when the gate dialled up Her-ur said "Apophis comes stand ready". But why would Apophis come through the gate if the child was taken as the Serpent Guards would have taken Amounent as well!

One thing that I thought about was - we know when a Goa'uld is killed another takes their place and their planets, so after Ra was killed why didn't Her-ur claim Abydos as his planet, as he was next in line for it. Thats why I thought what did Her-ur do after SG-1 left - he could have claimed that planet as his own!


Apophis could of come earlier to claim his child and then left. As for the Stargate, Her-ur knew it wasn't his troops so automatically it was enemies. Not necesarily Apophis but he could have come back for something, you never know.

Also did Sha're's dad un bury the gate early? Because he said she had been there for a season. If Apophis brought Sha're by ship then her dad would of known she wasn't herself. So how did Sha're get back?

[PugGate]

Teal'c tells Heru-ur that the 'Stargate' is activating, not the chapa'ai'. Isn't that a give away to Heru-ur that something is wrong?

Wasn't Teal'c shot? Why is he walking around like he wasn't at the end?

Sg-1 could have taken Apophis, he only had seven Jaffa. Come on.

[hollyshannensangel]

Thank Gwad, for Sky One and their repeats/re-runs of pervious seasons.

I'd never seen this episode before until this year! Yes, yes, I know.

This was such a heartbreaking episode...I really felt for Daniel! Sha're...why?! lol

Daniel truly has a heart of gold that's all I can say.

[Chaka's_Mum]

This was such a heartbreaking episode...I really felt for Daniel! Sha're...why?! lol

I think we all did! What a dilemma for him. After all that time apart, he finds his wife back again, but preggers by Apophis - even though she didn't actually have any say in the matter. It must have been so hard for him - and for her, come to that.

Poor Sha're free from the control of her symbiote, but only for the length of her pregnancy. No wonder she didn't want to have the baby. *sniff*!

[Heru'urs_first_prime]

I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE this episode!!!! (coz its got Heru'urs init :D :D :D :D )

[Chaka's_Mum]

I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE this episode!!!! (coz its got Heru'urs init :D :D :D :D )

And the funky gold armour, too. :D

[Heru'urs_first_prime]

And the funky gold armour, too. :D

that was the best!....(ive only seen heru'ur and Apophis wear gold before as an armour)

[zats]

Hathor wore gold, too...although it certainly wasn't armour by any stretch of the imagination...

[Chaka's_Mum]

True. Not sure I'd want to see a bloke dressed like that though... :eek: :D

[Heru'urs_first_prime]

True. Not sure I'd want to see a bloke dressed like that though... :eek: :D

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew

[zats]

Aw, come on. It'd be funny! "Kneel before the god in the bikini!"

[Chaka's_Mum]

Ack. Well that just put me off my breakfast...

;)

[Heru'urs_first_prime]

http://bestsmileys.com/sick/7.gif

[zats]

Ack. Well that just put me off my breakfast...

;)Excellent. My work here is done.

;)

[Stricken]

Great Epsidoe, written well and the cast just seem to get everything right

[walter_MacChevron]

Great Epsidoe, written well and the cast just seem to get everything right

Exactly what I was gonna put.........ya know I just recently started watching all these old episodes again and there is just so many long stretching storylines that really added to the show. (Sha're, Apophis, Sam's Dad, discovering tech, Maybourne, Tealc getting himself accustomed to earth life...)

[youngtusk87]

This episode seemed very inconsistent. Why didn't Daniel and Teal'c take Sha're to Simmeria and use Thor's Hammer to kill the Goa'uld inside of her? By this time, the Asgard had come back to Simmeria to destroy the residing Goa'uld and said they would replace Thor's Hammer with a new one(that would recognize Teal'c as a friendly). So what happened?!?

[captain jake]

The baby could have died.

[youngtusk87]

How? The Goa'uld was inactive. Why would the baby die if the Goa'uld was killed? And they never mentioned that in the show, either.

[captain jake]

When teal'c went in thors hammer it caused him extreme pain that much pain would probably kill a baby.

[captain jake]

maybe they werent stupid enough to consider it.

[youngtusk87]

But Teal'c was a Jaffa, he had a Goa'uld larva, Sha'ra was a full-fledged Goa'uld, just like that other lady of Simmeria that used to be a Goa'uld. The first time they went to Simmeria nad learned of what Thor's Hammer could do, Daniel immediatly wanted to use it on SHa'ra, just like Jack wanted to use it on Scara(sp?). Its not like the writers didn't think of it, it was just inconsistent, and actually kind of aggravating to watch after seeing the Simmeria episodes not long before.

[captain jake]

They siad that when they did not know shara was pregnent they probably would have took the risk if she wasnt. And the fact that she is a gou'ld has nothing to do with it the other lady was a gou'ld and she said it caused her great pain.

[Chaka's_Mum]

I'd go with captain jake on this one - there are some things you just can't risk when there's a baby involved.

Bungy jumping, for example.

Seriously, though; tempting as it might be, the sheer physical strain that Sha're would experience as the Thor's Hammer device eradicates Ammonet could have disastrous consequences. Severe stress and high blood pressure are considered Very Bad Things in the delivery room. The device itself wouldn't harm the child - but Sha're's physical response to the removal of Ammonet by the device very possibly could.

As an option, taking Sha're to Cimmeria just wasn't viable given the amount of time they had, the risks to the baby, the probable consequences for the people of Abydos if they did run off with her, and the likelihood of really getting up the collective noses of the Asgard by rushing back there with a seriously hacked-off System Lord on their heels only a few weeks after our Nordic-Style-Little-Grey-Allies have cleaned up the mess from their last visit. It's not likely that Apophis could actually do any harm to the people of Cimmeria, but it's the principle, y'know.

[captain jake]

Yep I agree!

[DigiFluid]

Hey, O'Neill lost his hat!

He was walking on the steps with Sam in Washington wearing it and her her beret...and then he leaves to "get some air" and he's neither wearing nor carrying the hat.

[Sheppard]

yeah i have just noticed that too wonder what happened too it i thought they had to carry it at all times

[Sheppard]

Excellent. My work here is done.

;)

sure is

[siXbrownSnakes2]

I just rewatched this episode

And I must say one of the best things about it is the music, especially the scenes on Abydos--they fit the mood extremely well!

[kimberlyrose]

I must admit, I thought that the reporters death was a little odd. It was never really followed up on. It's almost as if it was put in as a feed for a later ep. which never got made. Perhaps it was felt to be too contraversial?

The thing that interests me is the scene where Hammond tells Jack it was an accident. It's kind of hard to explain, but I'll do my best. It didn't feel like an explanation or a reassurance. It was too emphatic. In a way, it felt to me like Hammond was trying to convince Jack, and make sure he didn't look too much into it.

I'm definitely not suggesting Hammond was responsible, but he might know that something untoward happened. He'd already made references to things happening at higher levels.

I'm not sure how clear that is, but I hope people can get the general idea.

[Chaka's_Mum]

I know exactly what you're getting at, Kimberlyrose - the sense to me is also that Hammond knew a lot more than he was letting on. Not that he was personally behind what happened (this is General Hammond we're talking about!), but that he knew it had been 'arranged' and (possibly) who by. For Jack to go hunting would merely re-release the freshly re-canned worms; so he made it as clear as he could, short of issuing a direct order, that it was best to let sleeping dogs lie.

I'm not surprised the remarkably convenient 'road accident' wasn't followed up in a later ep. I don't think it was meant to be. It merely hints that some areas of Government (NID, perhaps?) are prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to secure the secrecy of the Stargate Programme. Or are they? Who's to say it wasn't a genuine accident? :hammond04:

[Harlan's Speechwriter]

I know exactly what you're getting at, Kimberlyrose - the sense to me is also that Hammond knew a lot more than he was letting on. Not that he was personally behind what happened (this is General Hammond we're talking about!), but that he knew it had been 'arranged' and (possibly) who by. For Jack to go hunting would merely re-release the freshly re-canned worms; so he made it as clear as he could, short of issuing a direct order, that it was best to let sleeping dogs lie.

I'm not surprised the remarkably convenient 'road accident' wasn't followed up in a later ep. I don't think it was meant to be. It merely hints that some areas of Government (NID, perhaps?) are prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to secure the secrecy of the Stargate Programme. Or are they? Who's to say it wasn't a genuine accident? :hammond04:

Hammond and O'Neill both seem to imply that there was something going on here. But I seem to remember Jack saying that he was going to let the reporter find him, so how could anyone have known that the reporter would have been in the road at that moment?

For me, one of the most moving aspects of this episode is seeing Sam with her father, especially when he tells her that he has cancer. I'm looking forward to Jacob returning and seeing more of his relationship with Sam.

[garhkal]

True, so unless they already had him under surveillance, they must have been watching Oniell.. But rewatching that scene, it does look like the car goes from a complete stop before it hits him, so to me it was planned....

I am just surprised we never heard any more of it... as i am sure the reporter's station would have pressed to find out what was up.

[Harlan's Speechwriter]

I am just surprised we never heard any more of it... as i am sure the reporter's station would have pressed to find out what was up.

I agree - I was surprised that we heard no more about the press. I suppose the journalist could have been freelance, or maybe they were able to convince the station/paper that it really was an accident. Maybe they thought it was too delicate/complicated/risky to persue the matter any further.

[kimberlyrose]

But I seem to remember Jack saying that he was going to let the reporter find him, so how could anyone have known that the reporter would have been in the road at that moment?

They (whoever "they" are) could have been watching Jack. If the car was already following him, and if they had someone (probably on foot) watching and reporting what was going on, it would probably have been easy to arrange an "accident."

[Saganite]

The thing that interests me is the scene where Hammond tells Jack it was an accident. It's kind of hard to explain, but I'll do my best. It didn't feel like an explanation or a reassurance. It was too emphatic. In a way, it felt to me like Hammond was trying to convince Jack, and make sure he didn't look too much into it.

I'm definitely not suggesting Hammond was responsible, but he might know that something untoward happened. He'd already made references to things happening at higher levels.

I'm not sure how clear that is, but I hope people can get the general idea.

Exactly how I felt. But it is SO unlike Hammond! I agree that it is unthinkable that Hammond ordered it done. Nor do I think that if he was given that order, unless it was by the president (and even then only if he could make a compelling case that it was an issue of national security and would save lives), do I think he would carry it out. (there ARE circumstances in the military where you are allowed to disobey or refuse to obey an order.)

On the other hand, I think Hammond might be indirectly involved. Such as being told that this had been a govt job, and then being ordered to disavow any knowledge of that and pretend it was an accident.

On the other hand, why would Hammond be so forceful in trying to tell Jack it was an "accident." that scene meant something, Hammond could just as easily have simply let the matter drop.

And then there's Jack's reaction to this...Oneill and Hammond have a pretty good feel for each other, and Jack definitly recognized something fishy going on.

I'm still on the 2nd season, so I dont know, but from what I'm reading it sounds like this matter with the reporter is never addressed again, am I right? If so....straaaaange.:hammond04:

[Saganite]

So now that we've all said the exact same things several times over...what have we learned?


anybody?


Nothing. I guess that's why this episode is called-;)

[Chaka's_Mum]

So now that we've all said the exact same things several times over...what have we learned?


anybody?

Er - the reporter snuffed it?

OK. I'll shut up now.

[Harlan's Speechwriter]

Er - the reporter snuffed it?

Did he??? I never spotted that! ;)

Sorry. I'll go back into my box now.

[Ilana]

As a relatively new poster, I don't know if this is appropriate. However, I was wondering if the actress who played Shaare was really pregnant since she and MS were together at that point and they have a child together.

[kimberlyrose]

As a relatively new poster, I don't know if this is appropriate. However, I was wondering if the actress who played Shaare was really pregnant since she and MS were together at that point and they have a child together.

I've heard that she really was pregnant when they were filming, but since she's decidedly not pregnant in her last couple of scenes, I have to wonder. They'd have to have filmed her scenes at the end of her pregnancy, hoping that she didn't go into labor early, and then wait (either leaving the relevant sets up, which eats up space, or rebuilding them later, which wouldn't be all that cheap) for the actress to give birth and return to work, and that'd probably be at least a few weeks.

I'm not saying that she wasn't actually pregnant during the filming, it's certainly possible, just that it seems unlikely to me.

[HelloVelo]

This was another episode that made me want to hug poor Sam.

Rating: 9/10

Full Review: http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/2008/06/secrets.html

[captain jake]

This was another episode that made me want to hug poor Sam.

Rating: 9/10

Full Review: http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/2008/06/secrets.html

I don't know about feeling sorry for Carter, I do feel sorry for Daniel though. He finds his wife only to learn that she has been impregnated and is still possessed by Amonet. Then of course she is taken away by Apophis once more. Though I guess you have a point, Sam is having petty spats with her father...

You have to wonder if a part of the government assassinated the reporter. The culprits could include The President, Kinsey, Hammond, or the NID. In my opinion it was Kinsey and his "associates".

[L E E]

I really liked how Jack handled the reporter. Deny deny deny. His expressions also reveal nothing.

The famous "O'Neill with 2 L's" line. :lol: I never get tired of it.

I wonder if it was really an accident.

Why is Sha're back in Abydos? Apophis allowed her to go back there? Is it because he thinks the child would be safer there than with him? If Sha're saw Daniel in the gateroom, wouldn't the goa'uld inside her know it as well?

Heru'ur is such a wimp. Always running away. I loved it when Jack threw the knife.

[Ulkesh47]

I really liked how Jack handled the reporter. Deny deny deny. His expressions also reveal nothing.
Sort of like when Jack was in a similar situation with Martin Lloyd in "Point of No Return".

And of course, the "two l's" quote is definitely brilliant.

[captain jake]

Sort of like when Jack was in a similar situation with Martin Lloyd in "Point of No Return".

When you have been in the secret service as long as Jack has you learn how to spin a lie.

[pritnep]

Awesome episode, has always been one of my favourites - again probably because of the Goa'uld content and the new story arc with Apophis's child and Heru'ur because he is cool - I just love the horus guards compared to the serpent guards.

I don't know if it was just me but Jack seemed to have doubt in this eye or maybe suspicious with Hammond when he got his medal, since he was the only one he told and then "the accident" happen it does put your suspicion right up there. It either really was an accident (because I can't see General Hammond ordering that done) or like others have said the other powers that be in regards to the Stargate program found out and had it done.

I wonder what it is that suppresses the Goa'uld when a women is with child probably some hormone that is increased during pregnancy. I bet it was also a conscious decision by Amauunet as well since she would know what Apophis's plans were, i guess that is also why he needed a new queen someone that could bear his child.

I loved how you got to see the horus suit fully unpack that was awesome special effects.

Heru'ur is so smug just standing there, good on Jack for throwing the knife - great aim.

Interesting back story with Sam's father also being in the Air Force.

I doubt it would be long before Shaur're lost what little control she (in regards to seeing them but not giving them up) had and Amauunet regained full control of the host. Got to feel sorry for Daniel, so close but so far.

[Starsaber]

Has it ever been actually revealed who the reporter's source was? I just watched this episode for the first time, and my immediate guess was Samuels, but I haven't seen anything to confirm or deny that.

[Pic]

Just throwing a random comment into the mix. I really liked this episode, for many of the reasons people have commented on (2L's comment, Jacob Carter, Sha're/Apophis/Heru'ur storyline, etc). But here are my two tops:

The dialogue here between Daniel and Teal'c ~ where Teal'c berates Daniel for feeling sorry for himself and urges him to do something ~ is fantastic.
Daniel: Hasn't she gone through enough? I mean, what are you.... what are you talking about here Teal'c? Handing her over to Maybourne for study?
Teal'c: The knowledge she possesses could one day save your world.
Daniel: I DON'T CARE!
*guh
The later scene between Daniel and Sha're when she's giving birth was more overly dramatic for my tastes, but because of Shanks outrage here, the later scene was made more believable.

....and....

Teal'c: It is a lengthy tale.
Jack: Long story, Teal'c

[balo]

I'm watching the rerun of the series and I really like this episode , must be one of the best of season 2.

So much happening here with pregnant Sha're, Daniel and Aphophis, Sam and Jacob Carter, O'Neill and the reporter revealing the stargate program.

All this made the rest of season 2 so great

I give it 10 out of 10. :jack: :daniel: :sam:

[Butlersgate]

i love episodes featuring abydos

[The Stig]

Everything happens in this episode. An introduction of a new character, the death of a new character, Daniel gets his girl and Jack says something funny. An episode for everybody.

[lordofseas]

I loved this episode because of the fact of the Daniel/Shar'e stuff.

[Calluna]

Hmm, I'd forgotten Jacob was quite the SOB before Selmak. I can undserstand his POV, he was maybe dying and wanted to give his little girl her "dream job" and was unconfused and annoyed when it appeared she turned it down in favour of being sitting analysing data at a computer after all the strings he pulled.

On the other hand, dude, how about checking out if it is still her dream job, things change. Also maybe don't spring it on her in public like that at a ceremony celebrating how amazing she is at her current job. And if you can guess that they aren't doing Deep Space Telemetry then maybe its not such a leap to think that she's doing more than just being a geek techie for the Air Force, even if the Stargate Program is beyond your wildest imaginings. Anyway, Selmak was the best thing that ever happened to him.

[Tachyon]

I have a galaxy-sized soft spot for this episode. I just love it. Another reminder why season 2 was so great. :)

[Njboing]

This is a great episode with teal'c seamingly taking charge while daniel looks after his wife.
The best part is near the end, as Carter and O'Neill come through the gate and O'Neill see's off Heru'ur. When Heru'ur leaves and the gate starts turning only for teal'c to say that must be apohis and O'Neills reaction "WHAT"

[gateship15]

this is a good episode. i love that reaction from jack

[mrscopterdoc]

This is one of my favorite s2 episodes.

We get to see Sha're again, Apophis stops by, so does Heru'ur.

Love Jack throwing the knife at the end and Carter's line about 'You remembered that the sheild's deflective capabilities are directly proportional to the amount of kinetic energy.'
Jack: 'yeah... right' :p

We also get to see one of my favorite secondary characters introduced: Jacob. :)

I agree :)

[Lunaeclipse]

I really liked how they showed Jack pull his hand out from under the reporters head and he had blood on it. It kinda felt to me like that was a physical representation on how Jack was feeling about it at the time (he had the reporter's blood literally and figuratively on his hands and. It made a big impact on me.

Did anyone else think it was strange of SG1 to talk about the ship still being on top of the temple and leaving anyway? Daniel knew the child was still there somewhere and that Heru'ur wanted it. All Heru'ur had was a sore hand and bruised ego so he could've still been a threat...

[Lunaeclipse]

You're not paranoid if they really are out to get you.

lol. That means they all have a reason to be...

[Lunaeclipse]

This is a great episode with teal'c seamingly taking charge while daniel looks after his wife.
The best part is near the end, as Carter and O'Neill come through the gate and O'Neill see's off Heru'ur. When Heru'ur leaves and the gate starts turning only for teal'c to say that must be apohis and O'Neills reaction "WHAT"

With Teal'c passed out and Sam was "zatting" all the horus guards that moved I was worried for Teal'c...

[hlndncr]

I love this episode. Jacob is one of my favorite characters, and this is a terrific first look. We can see what an impact Selmak has on him in later episodes and how his relationship grows and deepens.

I also really like seeing Daniel and Teal'c together. It's not a pairing we get very much. And of course it all revolves around Amunet/Sha're, which is what both draws them together and has the greatest potential to pull them apart.

As for Heru'er, I think he was one of the most wasted baddies in the series. He has a great look. He's set up as being supposedly super ruthless and scary, and as a son of Ra and Hathor (both killed by Jack) he could have been a great foe. But all he does is runaway and eventually get blown up (off camara) by Apophis. Very lame.

[Lunaeclipse]

I love this episode. Jacob is one of my favorite characters, and this is a terrific first look. We can see what an impact Selmak has on him in later episodes and how his relationship grows and deepens.

I also really like seeing Daniel and Teal'c together. It's not a pairing we get very much. And of course it all revolves around Amunet/Sha're, which is what both draws them together and has the greatest potential to pull them apart.

As for Heru'er, I think he was one of the most wasted baddies in the series. He has a great look. He's set up as being supposedly super ruthless and scary, and as a son of Ra and Hathor (both killed by Jack) he could have been a great foe. But all he does is runaway and eventually get blown up (off camara) by Apophis. Very lame.

I also liked the fact that they made Jacob a little tough in this episode. It makes the change later on a little more obvious. Out of all the guest characters I think Jacob is one of my favourites.

I like Daniel and Teal'c as a team by themselves. It gives the dynamic of the team a different spin. Watching this episode shows Daniel take charge a little more and shows Teal'c's dedication to the team despite his reservations. One of my favourite parts in this ep is where Sha're looks at them, but says nothing, giving Daniel (and us) a little bit of hope, even if it was only for awhile.

[magictrick]

I saw this the other day. I like the scene at the end where Sha're doesn't reveal their position. I'm only curious as to how that would happen since it seemed that the Goa'uld was in control up until that point.

[maneth]

Great episode, so much happened. Poor Sam and Daniel...

[Gamma626]

Shar'e was such a bad actress though. Other than that, great episode.

[Lunaeclipse]

I saw this the other day. I like the scene at the end where Sha're doesn't reveal their position. I'm only curious as to how that would happen since it seemed that the Goa'uld was in control up until that point.


Could it have been because they were trying to protect the child from Heru-ur...

[Ashizuri]

Shar'e was such a bad actress though. Other than that, great episode.

I agree. I love the bits with Sam and Jack in washington, but anytime Sha're is one the screen I cringe.

[Tallifer]

Very gripping for the regular viewer: it adds many details and twists to the ongoing storyline. I was disappointed that the journalistic investigation ended so abruptly: and is there not still the person who leaked the information in the first place?

I imagine that most casual viewers would be completely confused and uninterested in the byzantine goings on. And a pregnant, heavily robed Share is a big let-down from the sensual woman of the show's premiere.

6/10: above average for its exciting long term story developments, but it loses points for lacking its own epsiodic story.

[Noxbait]

I like how Jack wants to foget the medal's ceremony and "go with the boys."

Ah...it's good to go back to Abydos, just so sad the circumstances. I love Kasuf.

Wow..Teal'c goes through the ringer in the last episode, now Daniel (and Jack and Sam). This is such a heartwrenching episode all the way around. poor everybody.

I like the tension b/t Daniel and Teal'c when Teal'c suggests they take her back to earth. Good thing that Teal'c was around since Jack wasn't, Daniel was a bit too in shock to think straight.

Ah Jacob!!! Love him, Love him! he's sharp as a tack. Love the whole scene and interaction between Sam/Jacob/Jack/George. : )
Yeah for Heru'ur!!! Love the Pirate Goa'uld!
It would have been cool to have someday figured out who Zelig's source was. Ah the sweet mysteries of life. If there were no mysteries, what would we have to discuss on these forums?
There's another episode where Jack says the two L's thing...can't remember right now.
A very busy episode all in all, so much and so much tragedy.
I love how bad Jack feels about the reporter. he's great guy all around, ain't he?

Good thing they're always ready...just in case they walk into situations like this. Love the knife and jack's comments as he skewers Heur'ur's hand!! :)

and can it get any better...two Goa'uld System Lords in one episode!

[FrodoFraggins]

9.5/10

These are the big story episodes I prefer. As far as nitpicking, well Daniel could have taken his wife to cimmeria to rid her of the Goa'uld as soon as he found her. I'll just assume that doing this while she was pregnant was risky.

[kimberlyrose]

9.5/10

These are the big story episodes I prefer. As far as nitpicking, well Daniel could have taken his wife to cimmeria to rid her of the Goa'uld as soon as he found her. I'll just assume that doing this while she was pregnant was risky.

It'd be very risky. Too much stress on the mother's body can endanger the baby. Now, they could have taken her there, she could have had the baby in the cave, and then they could have gotten rid of the Goa'uld, but I guess they figured this was a more dramatic storyline. (If Daniel and Sha're had been reunited for real, then that would have reduced the amount of time Daniel spent at the SGC--he wouldn't have been as driven as he was at this point.)

[poundpuppy29]

I loved this episode except for the reporter part liked seeing backstory on Sam and loved the part with Daniel and Sha're

[LeftHandedGuitarist]

One of my favourite ever SG-1 episodes, so much so that I have clear memories of watching it upon its initial broadcast back in the late 90s. What I love about it is that it completely defies your expectations and changes the status quo of the whole show, while maintaining the great characters, the interactions and also being highly emotionally charged throughout.

- So wonderful that they got Erick Avari back as Kasuf, I only wish he had been utilised more. Even if he hadn't been around, going back to Abydos and following up the plot threads we've had dangling is great fun to watch. It's a little odd that nobody speaks of Skaara's absence - he is Kasuf's son, after all.

- The introduction of Jacob! He was always one of my favourite characters, and I remember watching the episode and being so worked up that Sam wasn't able to tell her father about what she really does. Then he goes an hits us with the cancer revelation, and it becomes even worse! Talk about a good hook to continue watching and further my love for the show tenfold.

- As well as all this, we have the plot involving O'Neill and the reporter, which I also love. My hunch is that Kinsey was the one who leaked the existence of the Stargate. I loved Jack's explanation for the line about navigating his way across a galaxy. The "accidental" death of the reporter really took me by surprise, though.

- Heru-Ur is back again, with his really awesome Horus guards. And this time, we get to see the helmet retraction effect fully, and it looks superb. Excellent effects work. I think the Jaffa who reported to him was the same one who appeared in Thor's Chariot, nice continuity but surely he was taken by the Asgard? Ah well, we don't really know what happened to all those who were beamed away.

- The episode is not perfect, there are some silly moments. Not dialling the Stargate when Heru-Ur first begins to arrive is really annoying, Teal'c just stands there. They had plenty of time to get away if they had just gotten on with it. Also, Sha're asks "can you hear that?" and Daniel says, "hear what?" all while this huge rumbling noise shakes the temple around them!

- Emotionally, this episode really puts characters through some bad stuff. We've just had Teal'c going through hell with his wife and son and now Daniel finds his wife pregnant by Apophis. Not nice. In addition, Sam has the worst news imaginable from her father and Jack is clearly in serious doubt about how the reporter was killed. The writers must have been feeling particularly mean-spirited around this time.

RATING: 9 out of 10

[dtheories]

Loved the background of the desert when the ep title appears. There are several lovely, gentle images mixed up with the harsh realities. Like the city scape of Abydos against searing moments like Daniel registering with his eyes his dismay, disbelief, pain and such sorrow.

Teal'c's really a hero discovering Sha're's ability to remember the goa'uld's past and then using his creativity to safeguard the child and bring his friend to safety.

Jacob Carter is a jerk. His selfishness is probably a lot of why Sam ascends to the position that she does, but what a jerk! I really hate it when people try to make you feel obligated to them. Gets my goat!

And poor Jack! He was left with physical and emotional blood on his hands and the 'accident' might well have been the seed that pushes him to be even more the pain in the mikta that Kinsey and the NID find him to be.



- The episode is not perfect, there are some silly moments.

Another silly moment was when Teal'c zats a Horus guard and he just keeps on wiggling; quivering mightily till Jack comes through the 'gate!

The effect of the point end of a fired zat was pretty cool, as was the secret uncovered by Jack about the fault in the goa'uld personal shield.

Good ep!

[Brother Freyr]

Not dialling the Stargate when Heru-Ur first begins to arrive is really annoying, Teal'c just stands there. They had plenty of time to get away if they had just gotten on with it.Yes! I'm so glad that bugged you too. You know what it reminds me of? Rodney McKay in SGA. You know, how he wastes ten seconds to explain how everyone will die within mere seconds if he doesn't do some really difficult thing that ultimately takes less time than he spent talking about it. Arrgh! Don't talk. Act.

[Lieutenant Sparrow]

I remember how shocked I was when I first saw Sha're in this ep.

I really love Horus guards. Inubis will always be the coolest though. Jacob is an ass in this ep, but I'm glad he improves.

[KayLyne]

I'm sad to say that each time I rewatch this episode, I always skip past the Teal'c/Daniel/Sha're stuff. I guess I understand the importance of the information being presented (Sha're still alive, pregnant, have baby, the Goa'uld takes over her body again, etc), but it's just too damn boring for me.

On the flip side - I really love the events that take place in Washington with Jack/Sam/Jacob/Hammond/Selig.

The introduction of Jacob Carter in this episode probably provided the most impact on things to come, especially with his revelation of having cancer. Didn't I hear somewhere that Jacob was supposed to die?

I loved the discussion that Sam & Jacob had about NASA. It was great to see that Jacob would try to use his influence as an Air Force General to get his daughter into the program. His heart was in the right place, but he should have discussed it with Sam before looking into it. You could see Sam's conflict of wanting to tell her dad what a great job she already had. That had to hurt Jacob, being a two-star general, yet his daughter has a higher clearance than he does.

It was great that the writers made Jacob & George long-time friends. It kind of brings a little more impact of a father/daughter nature to all of the Sam/Hammond scenes throughout this series.

I loved the Jack/Armand Selig part as well. I liked how Jack didn't seem to flinch when Armand first mentioned the Stargate. I was disappointed that he was killed so soon. It would have been great to see what kind of different conflict he'd bring as a reporter trying to expose the program, rather than somebody like Senator Kinsey.

One of my favorite scenes is when Jack, Sam & Hammond are in the empty press room discussing the origin of the leak & what to do.

The best part of this episode - Sam & Jack in their lovely dress blues! Sam always rocks those 'blues'.

It was great that the two stories intersected again at the end with Sam & Jack coming back to Abydos to meet with the rest of their team. I liked how Teal'c reassured Daniel that Sha're wasn't completely gone yet, with his "She looked directly at us, Daniel Jackson, yet she did not reveal our position" comment.

And it couldn't be a Stargate episode without some great Sam technobabble. She seemed proud of Jack for paying attention to something she had said previously:

- :sam::Good thing you remembered the shield's deflection capability's directly proportional to the amount of kinetic energy directed at it.
- :jack:: Right.
Jack throwing the knife is just proof that he does remember stuff that Sam says - as long as she can break it down into simple terms. ;)

[Jae'a]

My Livejournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/9090.html)

Ah, cut Jacob some slack, people. He didn't realise (and couldn't be told) what Sam was doing, and he thought all that NASA stuff was still her dream. Wouldn't you be a little confused if you suddenly found out your kid changed their mind about something that major without giving you a proper explanation?
I think 'Chaka's_Mum' (:P) made some good points a while back on page 2:


He knew that Sam had dreamed of entering the Space Programme when she was younger, that she'd missed her chance after the Challenger disaster put things on hold and that this was his opportunity to get her what he still thought she hankered for (he has no idea, of course, that she's been into space quite a few times by now and doesn't need to do it strapped into a small capsule attached to several tons of highly dangerous combustible materials).

He was viewing it as what could, quite possibly, be his last chance to get Sam what he thought she wanted. The biggest problem is that what she's doing now not only whacks the Space Programme right into a cocked hat, it's also classified so she can't give him a decent reason why she's knocking him back (other than the 'I'm happy where I am now' routine, which may be true but still sounds dead lame). To him, she's turning down a Chance Of A Lifetime that he's pulled all those strings to get for her - and purely so she can stare at computer screens and stuff all day. I guess you can understand him being just a tad hacked off with this

[hlndncr]

There are a lot of things to love about this episode. There are also a lot of mistakes and plot holes, but I enjoy the idea enough to just let those go.

I admit that I don't enjoy the Daniel/Sha're storyline as much as I wish I could. My favorite part of the movie was the love story between Daniel and Shau'ri. I think she really is the love of his life and I don't think he will ever get over losing her. But I just don't like VB as Sha're or what the PTB did to her character going from the movie to the TV series.

It was great to see Kasuf again.

The introduction of Jacob was fantastic. We learn a lot about Sam and her past just seeing who her dad is and how they interact. And we also see a new depth to Sam's relationship with Hammond who is an old friend of the family. Then there is the very tense meeting between Jack and Jacob. I love it when these two are together. It's always so entertaining.

The reporter character was interesting. I kind of wished he had stuck around and maybe became an ally. Much later on we do getting something like that in the Julia Donavon character I suppose.

The script suggests that it's Kinsey or one of his people who has tipped the reporter off. But I don't see the benefit in that for Kinsey. Right now he's really the only one in Congress who knows about the Stargate and I'd think he'd want to keep that position of power. My vote is that it was an attempt at revenge by the disgraced Samuels.




http://signavatar.com/7792_s.gif

[Krisz]

Clearly some communication problems between Sam and Jacob. The usual expectations and "want what is best for you' from the father, the child resenting it and probably saying that's what they want just to keep parent happy.

Jacob still went ahead with pulling the strings without checking with Sam, obviously not thinking for one moment that Sam may have changed her direction and was happy with the way it was going career wise. It's this assumption that makes this an interesting meeting that turns into a confrontation and of course the 'guilt' creating in the child parents can do so well!!! Their scenes together are well played, with all these underlying currents of Sam's relationship with her father coming out into the open in just a couple of short scenes. He does care for her that does show in how he wants her to be happy, it's just the way he goes about showing it!

I remember the shock of that reporter being run over by the car when I watched this episode on it's first airing. Clearly the poor man was being used by someone to try and rattle Jack and the SGC, and was expendable. It was Jack's reaction that was so telling, he probably guessed who killed the reporter, but he was faced with the brutal reality of the price of working on a secret project, the reporter blamed him and the Air Force as he lay dying for stopping him breaking his story. I tend to believe it was Kinsey's first stab at trying to make Jack's life hell, of course Jack couldn't help feeling somewhat responsible because he too is caught up in the veil of secrecy surrounding the Stargate program.

Some great new storylines were seeded in this episode. Jacob, the Harsesis child and the machinations of shadowy organisations trying to undermine the SGC.

If anyone is interested, the Air Force HQ in Washington in front of which the reporter was run over was played by the Vancouver Art Gallery.

[NowIWillDestroyAbydos]

Pretty good episode.

Forgot Jacob was a 2-star (Major) General.

Tomorrow's a filter episode as we march to the Tok'ra 2-Parter set for this Thurs & Fri.

[Jae'a]

Pretty good episode.

Forgot Jacob was a 2-star (Major) General.

Tomorrow's a filter episode as we march to the Tok'ra 2-Parter set for this Thurs & Fri.
You can't wait for that, can you? :lol:

[SaraBahama]

I enjoyed this ep: gives so many hints to Sam's backstory!

Washington is her "old stomping grounds" because she spent "two years at the Pentagon trying to get the Stargate program off the ground" -and then we meet Jacob! Hello Dad!

It's neat seeing Jacob pre-Selmak so that we have a point of reference for the post-Selmak 'mellowing'. Jacob became one of my favorite secondary characters.

[muziqaz]

Enjoyed seeing Jacob for the 1st time.

[jelgate]

Thier is something off about Secrets. I don't like the ease of how the reporter storyline of a leak is easily solved. Kind of convient he gets run over by a car and the leak issue from this episode is never raised again. I did like the introduction of Jacob of he is a stubborn man but does care about Sam. It provides an interesting contrast when Jacob is blended with Selmack.

I have nothing but good things to say about the Abydos story. It not only furthers the storyline as Daniel tries to find Sha're but it also gives us new insight into how the Goa'uld function in Biology and society. And the whole Jack throwing a knife at Her'ur always cracks me up.

Her'ur: You dare challenge me
*Jack grabs knife attached to his uniform*
Jack:I was thinking about it
*Jack throws knife*

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

Why did both jaffa disintegrate when only one of them had been zatted three times? Don't know why, but that bugs me every time (I yelled at the TV this evening, and my niece came out to see what was wrong).

Count me as another one who finds the Washington stuff more interesting than the Abydos stuff.

ETA: and I've always loved how clear RDA made it that Jack didn't believe Hammond at all.

Seaboe

[Lieutenant Sparrow]

Why did both jaffa disintegrate when only one of them had been zatted three times? Don't know why, but that bugs me every time (I yelled at the TV this evening, and my niece came out to see what was wrong).

Count me as another one who finds the Washington stuff more interesting than the Abydos stuff.

ETA: and I've always loved how clear RDA made it that Jack didn't believe Hammond at all.

Seaboe

Weren't the Jaffa touching? I think that's why they both disintegrated.

[fems]

Thier is something off about Secrets. I don't like the ease of how the reporter storyline of a leak is easily solved. Kind of convient he gets run over by a car and the leak issue from this episode is never raised again.

Whoever leaked the story to the reporter apparently realized that it was not such a good move, since said reporter was killed in "an accident". I don't doubt there was some off-screen investigation, but I think the person behind this all got a good warning out of the events.

[jelgate]

Whoever leaked the story to the reporter apparently realized that it was not such a good move, since said reporter was killed in "an accident". I don't doubt there was some off-screen investigation, but I think the person behind this all got a good warning out of the events.Conspiracy theory? It was never shown if the accident was really an accident or not.

[fems]

Oh please, it was too coincidental to be an accident. And I'm not one of those crazy people that sees a conspiracy every where they look, but this is too obvious. I assume they never clarified it because TPTB wouldn't want to risk putting the USAF and other parties involved in a bad light.

[ekolint48]

I don't think it would have put the Air Force in a bad light because I don't see them as the ones responsible. Maybe parts withing the bureaucracy of it but not the USAF as a whole. Whoever leaked the top secret intel either wanted to shut down the program, which anyone who wanted advanced alien tech would not do (like the USAF), or to rattle those in charge at the SGC. By that logic I think it was Senator Kinsey who either wanted the program shut down because he didn't like the fact that it was kept top secret and in the shadows, or he wanted to blackmail the SGC with the intel. On that last token it could have been rogue NID and the likes of Maybourne who leaked the intel to blackmail the SGC and then later killed the reporter when he got to far with his story and actually went to make it public. Or the rogue NID could have found out about the leak, had it come from Senator Kinsey trying to expose the program, and killed the reporter to silence his story. I think the last scenario makes to most sense.

[jelgate]

Oh please, it was too coincidental to be an accident. And I'm not one of those crazy people that sees a conspiracy every where they look, but this is too obvious. I assume they never clarified it because TPTB wouldn't want to risk putting the USAF and other parties involved in a bad light.

Of course it was too concidental. But that does not mean their is an in story reason for the car accident. It could just be an issue the writers choose not adrees

[Starscape91]

I liked this episode we got to see Jacob and Daniel returned to Abydos and found Sha're pregnant. Also the reporter was Agent Spender from the X-Files.

[TheShinster]

I love Jacob and Sam's interactions in this episode. Even though they are only on screen together in a few scenes, I think it says so much about their relationship (one of my favorite of the whole series).

The whole conspiracy theory thing never really gets resolved in my opinion. We never really find out who the leak was, nor who made the "accident" happen. My thoughts are Kinsey was the leak and the NID cleaned up the mess, however Kinsey later conspires with the NID so who knows what really went on.

[Matt G]

Another Sunday afternoon...another SG1 ep to catch up on.

1. What do you when you're watching S4 and you see the S2 ep where Jacob Carter is introduced for the first time. Laugh.

2. What do you do when one of the big reveals is Jacob having cancer? Laugh.

3. The Abydos scenes were certainly interesting though, what were Daniel's last moments with Sha're. Forgot that their plan A had been to get Shar're to Earth. As someone else said "if only".

4. Wasn't sure what to make of the reporter getting run over. Kinsey or someone connected to him is the obvious leak but who was responsible for running him over. Hammond certainly acted like he knew there was more to it than met the eye which briefly made me suspicious of him...OK...way OOC but who else knew about this guy?

Pretty solid ep.

[Jae'a]

2. What do you do when one of the big reveals is Jacob having cancer? Laugh.
:sam34: Ya... you might be on your own, there...

[fems]

:sam34: Ya... you might be on your own, there...

I too find this disconcerting...

[Matt G]

Remember I was watching S4 + the midchunk of S2 at the same time(on different channels). I already knew Jacob would go on to join the Tok'ra and have his cancer cured. So what was meant to be a big dramatic moment just didn't work for me.

[Skydiver]

Oh please, it was too coincidental to be an accident. And I'm not one of those crazy people that sees a conspiracy every where they look, but this is too obvious. I assume they never clarified it because TPTB wouldn't want to risk putting the USAF and other parties involved in a bad light.

we know hammond never would have ordered it. Don't think he had the connections anyway. The big unanswered question is 'who did?'

the leak that fed him the info?
Kinsey and the NID? who maybe knew they'd lose their hold on the project if it went public.
someone higher up that wanted the secret kept?

In some ways it was a bit of a turning point in the show in that the stargate was shown to be less a fun lark and adventure and more a serious project and program.

[fems]

Hammond would have never ordered it, but that doesn't mean others wouldn't. I mean, Samuels and Maybourne were far less ethical and they were USAF too. It's possible others who either supported the Program or had different reasons for it not to be made public arranged the 'accident'.

[Nut_ty]

This is one of my favorite episodes! I fell in love (or just seriously like?) with Daniel. I have a large soft heart for tragic romances. So my favorite parts were on Abydos.

The off-scene story is also interesting. Michael Shanks and Vaitiare Bandera were a couple, and VB was pregnant with Michael's baby. I also heard that, between takes, MS & VB were talking to the baby, asking her to not come out yet!

[Jae'a]

Remember I was watching S4 + the midchunk of S2 at the same time(on different channels). I already knew Jacob would go on to join the Tok'ra and have his cancer cured. So what was meant to be a big dramatic moment just didn't work for me.
Oh yeah, I guess that's a fair point. Sorry about that...

[Lunaeclipse]

Remember I was watching S4 + the midchunk of S2 at the same time(on different channels). I already knew Jacob would go on to join the Tok'ra and have his cancer cured. So what was meant to be a big dramatic moment just didn't work for me.

The ep was predictable. Halfway through I knew they were to make Jacob a Tok'ra the first time I watched it... They made it an easy guess for that by dropping all the clues like bricks...

[moondragon]

Definitely a very memorable episode in season 2. We had two great story arcs, Daniel/Teal'c/Sha're and Sam/Jack/Jacob/Selig. In both cases we get introduced to new ideas and people that would be revisited in future episodes.

On Abydos: Glad to see Kasuf again (played by the charming Erik Avari). We find out that Sha're has been there for at least 3 months (as Kasuf said a full season) and is PREGGERS!! That was definitely shocking, especially after hearing that Apophis wanted to use the child as his future host. Poor Daniel, he was blindsided and of course would feel betrayed. I like that Teal'c went out there and talked him out of his pity party to see that this was their golden opportunity to take Sha're back to Earth. In the end, Amonet not ratting them out after she saw Daniel shows that Sha're has some control left...or at least left an imprint of her love for Daniel.

Pentagon: We finally get to meet Jacob Carter. It was very easy to see the type of relationship he and Sam have. Jacob has his say and expects Sam to be happy with the choices he makes for her life. It is probably why she is always trying to prove that she can handle and do anything that comes her way. I hated the way Jacob threw that he had cancer at Sam, and then immediately mentioned the NASA program again. I think he was just throwing a giant hissy fit that he didn't know what she was doing, but that she was willing to give up NASA for it. Yeah the cover story they are using sucks, but as a military man he should respect it and trust that Sam is happy with what she is doing. In regards to the reporter Armin, I loved how Jack was able to keep his reactions in check after he brought up the Stargate. Favorite line is "It's O'neill, with two L's"...something that continues to be said every time Jack is in trouble on Earth. His death definitely smells of a cover up, if not by the NID then by Kinsey. I also agree that it would have been interesting to keep him and see where this could have gone. An extra element to the already difficult relations the SGC has with those outside of Cheyenne Mountain.

[ChulaksPrincess]

When Daniel told General Hammond that he couldn't think of anyone he would be safer with than Teal'c, that was a great complement to Teal'c, truly showing how much Daniel trusted him. Sam's dad should have realized that she was a grown woman, and let her make her own choices about her future, rather than attempting to run her life by making them for her. Hurray for Sam for standing up to him, and not giving in to what he wanted, and staying on her own path, following her own dreams.
I think that Jacob could have found another way to inform Sam of his cancer, as well as another place. It's a good thing that Sam knew how to control her emotions.

[Lunaeclipse]

Compared to some of the other episodes, this episode had a good amount of suspense. I was on the edge of my seat..

[Dimes]

I was pretty shocked when I saw Sha're, fell bad for the kid though.

[Sam-n-Jack-in-<3]

It's a pretty good episode. We get an update on Sha're and her family, get to see some Sam/Jack interaction, get to meet Sam's Dad, find out some of her backstory...and see a horribly annoying reporter, the first of many trying to expose the Stargate program.

Poor Daniel! I felt so bad for the guy...he comes back and finds out his wife is pregnant by his worst enemy. OUCH! :(And he has to watch her be inhabited by Amonet and leave...again. :danielanime08:




The off-scene story is also interesting. Michael Shanks and Vaitiare Bandera were a couple, and VB was pregnant with Michael's baby. I also heard that, between takes, MS & VB were talking to the baby, asking her to not come out yet!

Wow, that must have been interesting to watch...

Director: "Take one!"
Michael Shanks (as Daniel) "Push!"
*various dialogue*
Director: "Cut!"
Michael Shanks (looking at VB's stomach): "No, kiddo. We're just acting. You stay in there, OK?"

[tlw]

cool, didn't know that but I looked it up and it's true

the only thing that bugs me about this episode is that they suddenly forgot all about thor's new hammer...why the hell didn't they go there...plain old stupid if you ask me.

That's what I always thought.

[Brother Freyr]

Yo Thor buddy, can you speed up up the repairs? It's hammer-time.

[tlw]

Apophis could of come earlier to claim his child and then left. As for the Stargate, Her-ur knew it wasn't his troops so automatically it was enemies. Not necesarily Apophis but he could have come back for something, you never know.

Also did Sha're's dad un bury the gate early? Because he said she had been there for a season. If Apophis brought Sha're by ship then her dad would of known she wasn't herself. So how did Sha're get back?

I have wondered how she got there myself.

[tlw]

I'd go with captain jake on this one - there are some things you just can't risk when there's a baby involved.

Bungy jumping, for example.

Seriously, though; tempting as it might be, the sheer physical strain that Sha're would experience as the Thor's Hammer device eradicates Ammonet could have disastrous consequences. Severe stress and high blood pressure are considered Very Bad Things in the delivery room. The device itself wouldn't harm the child - but Sha're's physical response to the removal of Ammonet by the device very possibly could.

As an option, taking Sha're to Cimmeria just wasn't viable given the amount of time they had, the risks to the baby, the probable consequences for the people of Abydos if they did run off with her, and the likelihood of really getting up the collective noses of the Asgard by rushing back there with a seriously hacked-off System Lord on their heels only a few weeks after our Nordic-Style-Little-Grey-Allies have cleaned up the mess from their last visit. It's not likely that Apophis could actually do any harm to the people of Cimmeria, but it's the principle, y'know.

Yes, Apophis could have taken it out on the people of Abydos. But as for the rest. The Hammer was there to protect the Cimmerians from the Goa'uld. But it was also to free the host as well. Thor said, "Only the host may leave". She was so close to delivery, they could have taken her there after the child was born.

At the end, was Ammonet really so weak that she would let Sha're prevent her from revealing Daniel's position or was there something else going on.

[garhkal]

Maybe Amonett picked up Sha're's feelings for daniel and reciprocated.

[Lunaeclipse]

At the end, was Ammonet really so weak that she would let Sha're prevent her from revealing Daniel's position or was there something else going on.

I always thought it was a 'you helped me so now we're even kind of thing'... But there are a few reasons... Skaara seemed to be able to communincate with Klorel...so maybe Sha're had something to do with it. My guess was that they stopped Heru'ur getting the child, so she was grateful for that...and maybe if they failed to find the child, that she'd know where to find Daniel for that information... but in saying that Daniel professed his love for Sha're quite loudly, so maybe it was something to do with that too? ... or just the fact that Daniel delivered the child safely?....

[Major Clanger]

I don't see why Sam just didn't tell her dad that she is part of something big and covert and more exciting than anything she could do at NASA. he's a General FCOL so there is some leeway with his vetting and so on.

I've often wondered about the "accident" - I wonder if General Hammond really would lie to O'Neill about that.

Loved the "O'Neill with two Ls" thing - heh heh heh

But oh my. What is it with Stargate and Hats? Sam & Jack are bimbling around outside in Washington DC and they don't wear their uniform hats. PUT YOUR HEADDRESS ON ALREADY!

[hedwig]

But oh my. What is it with Stargate and Hats? Sam & Jack are bimbling around outside in Washington DC and they don't wear their uniform hats. PUT YOUR HEADDRESS ON ALREADY!

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/jmprnP/normal_sg1_209_141_zps6966659d.jpg

[Major Clanger]

If that turns out to be a screenshot from Solitudes... I will be Very Cross Indeed

ETA: yes, they did for one shot, but every other time they were incorrectly dressed. Grrr

[fems]

If that turns out to be a screenshot from Solitudes... I will be Very Cross Indeed

ETA: yes, they did for one shot, but every other time they were incorrectly dressed. Grrr

I don't think they were wearing their dress blues while stranded and nearly dying on Antarctica... :confused:

[Major Clanger]

no but they were in the snow without hats on... (it's a loooong story)

[hedwig]

In the episode where Sha're is buried, Hammond, Jack, Sam, and Janet are all wearing their uniforms and hats.

And in the episode where they went to Omoc's funeral, both Sam and Jack were wearing their uniforms and hats.

In Desperate Measures and 2001, Jack was wearing his uniform in a limo and at the Pentagon; is he supposed to wear the hat inside both of those?

What other scenes were they outside and not wearing their hats?

[Major Clanger]

sorry I even mentioned it. It's a very old (and not funny) joke.

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

I'm with MC. Jack takes his cover off and it disappears for the rest of the episode. For all the hats Jack wears, his formal cover has a way of disappearing when it shouldn't.

Seaboe

[Major Clanger]

I'm sensitive to the headdress issue - especially when in barrack dress or Nr 2s (not sure what the USAF version is, Service Dress?) having been shouted at enough for not putting mine on (hehe)

[garhkal]

I've often wondered about the "accident" - I wonder if General Hammond really would lie to O'Neill about that.


Intentionally... doubt it.