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Mr_Alpha_Omega
May 4th, 2005, 02:40 PM
I'm new to Stargate, and I was wondering if someone could me link to a good explanation of how gate addresses work?

Much Thanks :D

6thMonolith
May 4th, 2005, 04:41 PM
The PX3--- addresses are completely made up. Otherwise, the symbols on a gate are used to find an exact point in space using three intersecting lines and a point of origin. I'm not exactly sure of how the gate addresses were made by the Ancients, but the Omnipedia is a good place to check.
http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/technology/s/stargate.shtml

spg_1983
May 4th, 2005, 05:07 PM
its never been sufficiently explained in the show how exactly the symbols work. in the movie it was explained that the symbols were constelations as seen from earth and those were the points used for charting the destination. while that explanation was suitable for the movie where there was only one destination and the gate only went between abydos and earth and there were no Ancients, it doesnt work for the show. the problem arises first from the idea that the gate uses constelations as the points to map a course. constelations are not single points in space, they are made up of stars spread over hundreds of light years. also the specific arrangements of stars that make up the constelations are only seen from earth so even if they did use the constelations as mapping points, you could only chart a course within the sphere (more or less) created by the constelations around earth. while this would still be a large area, it would by no means encompass this whole galaxy, let alone other galaxies which the gate can dial. like i said, in the show they have pretty much glossed over the whole issue because they have not even explained how it is that they can figure our where a planet is just based on its address.

now my theory for how the ancients developed the system is this: the ancients established a series of 38 points around the outside of the galaxy and these are what the symbols represent. the gate system then uses these points to plot a course for the wormhole. its a pretty simple theory actually, but it doesnt explain how they are able to plot a gates position without dialing it. although, at this point they probably would have been able to figure out the system by trial and error. dial a planet, scan the stars in that planets sky and establish where it is in the galaxy, repeat X number of times and they should be able to determine where the specific points are and which ones they are.

Mr_Alpha_Omega
May 4th, 2005, 05:20 PM
Thanks for the help. One other quick question: why do all the addresses start with PX3 ?

spg_1983
May 4th, 2005, 05:24 PM
Thanks for the help. One other quick question: why do all the addresses start with PX3 ?
they dont, but the P3X prefix is used a lot more than anything else.

Mr_Alpha_Omega
May 4th, 2005, 05:27 PM
Ah, thanks a lot for the help. :)

Jarnin
May 5th, 2005, 02:04 AM
now my theory for how the ancients developed the system is this: the ancients established a series of 38 points around the outside of the galaxy and these are what the symbols represent. the gate system then uses these points to plot a course for the wormhole.
I once thought like you do. Then I drew a map and charted where planets would be according to their address, and most of them ended up in the galactic core. Some, like Earth, ended up nowhere near their actual location in the galaxy.

The only thing that comes close to explaining it is based on some kind of ancient galactic positioning system which turns out to be the gates themselves. The DHDs communicate with each other, and they coordinate a system that the gates can use to find each other based on an internal map.

If the gate network works like this, then each time a DHD and gate were activated on a planet for the first time, the DHD would communicate with nearby DHDs to figure out its address, which would give it it's location in the galaxy, and any other gates location in the galaxy at the same time. From that point on, they'd dial each other up to update that system, but it's not based on anything except their relative position to each other.

Seastallion
May 5th, 2005, 09:50 AM
Actually...It is a bit complicated, but I think I figured it out. We are dealing with Three Dimensional space, and have to work the problem from there. It helps to think of space as a giant hollow cube. Remember...there are 6 sides to a cube. (One side for each of the 6 gate symbols representing the destination points.) Place a 'clock' on each side of the cube divided into 38 points of reference. The gate symbol chosen will place an 'axis' point where that symbol is located on the 'clock' on one of the sides of the cube.

When you do the same for each side along with its opposing side, the three lines will intersect giving you your 3-Dimensional location in space. So you have 6 'clocks', one for each side of the cube...you use one of the 38 points on the clock to determine the spacial axis, and then the intersection of the three 'poles' give you your destination location. Plus, the 7th point... your point of origin. :)

*edit* I made a drawing below to give a visual reference to what I'm talking about. Hopefully it will help make it more clear. ;) Imagine the entire galaxy being inside of the cube. However, when using an extra-galactic stargate address (8 symbol address), the 7th chevron would act as an indicator to increase the size of the cube. Thus, instead of just a galaxy inside the cube, you would have an entire galactic cluster inside the cube.

_Owen_
May 6th, 2005, 11:43 AM
It is explained in the movie, by Daniel Jackson.

Owen Macri

spg_1983
May 6th, 2005, 01:08 PM
It is explained in the movie, by Daniel Jackson.

Owen Macriyes but the movie system is BS because it basis the system on constelations being the point of reference which would not be possible for a system that dials at least three different galaxies

Jprime
May 6th, 2005, 05:08 PM
Since anybody whos passed 6th grade geometry can tell you that attempting to pinpoint the location of every atom of a person's body with points of referance the size of constellations is a bit dumb, I think that the address is just a helping tool for the gate, to help it narrow down its search so to speak. I think its logical that the gate itself is the one who locks onto another gates position, not the address itself.

_Owen_
May 6th, 2005, 06:21 PM
I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say, so I will clarify my point.

In the movie the symbols on the gate were based on constelations, and each symbol represented a point in space, to find a location you need six points or three lines, and to plot a course you need 7 points, the constelation thing was just what the symbols on the cartouche were supposed to be. If you remember the movie, the outer circle was hyroglyphics, but they couldn't figure out the inner cartouche, then Dr. Jackson realised that they were constelations, and already knowing that the word "Stargate" had something to do with it, he realised that it was to signify a course, six points in the cartouche and the seventh below it, then when he presented his findings to General West they showed him the gate, and he realised that it was a device that could take them to other planets.

Now we know that the symbols were just symbols and not constelations, originaly in the movie they just wanted to travel to one place so the constelation theory worked, however in the show when they expanded, the constelation theory wouldn't work so they just cut that part out.

Now to go into furthur detail about stargate adresses. By definition a point has no area and no volume, and since a planet orbits the sun and a stargate on a planet travels around the planet, you can't simply identify a single point for the gate or even for the planet so you need to specify a larger area. To do this you include information in the coorelative update that says these six points expand out this far in this shape, then when they meet in the middle they will specify a volume of space instead of a point. The area that is speccified will be the orbit of the planet, the route of the outermost point of the planet around the sun, then you can also include the exact diameter of the planet, then you end up with an area that the planet will always travel, no further out no closer in. Like a large circle, then a smaller circle inside, of course it is only a two dimensional analogy of a three dimensional volume, but it gives you an idea of what I am talking about.

When a Stargate dials another Stargate it will have all of that information and search only the area that has been specified, for a gate, if a gate is found a wormhole will be activated and then the wormhole will lock onto the gate.

Now to go into even further detail, I will say something about an eight chevron adress. Basically when you dial seven chevrons the gate knows that the adress is within only the specified area, or the galaxy. When you dial an eight chevron the gate knows that the seven points aren't in this galaxy they are exactly, this far away, the gate will search to see what is that far away, it will then know that there is another galaxy there, and then know that the seven points are only within that specified area, or the second galaxy.

I don't think I missed anything, and I hope that I helped.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 7th, 2005, 02:43 AM
With all that talk of planet movement... I hope you haven't forgotten something. The stargate does not need to know the exact location of any planet. Just, the Star System in which the stargate your trying to connect to, is located. The Stargate is intuitive, in that it will simply search out any open stargate within a system to make a connection. The Stargate does not have to be on a specific planet, or planetary orbit for a connection to be made. It can be anywhere within the star system, near the sun or far away...just within the star system. That is why a wormhole will connect to any open stargate along the route to the destination, in the event of an explosion causing the wormhole to jump from one stargate to another. In that case, the open stargate doesn't even have to be in the same system...just along the way to it.

The Stargate Network has a virtual working model of all the space within the network, which is the reason for coorelative updates. Stars move within galaxies over the course of millions of years, which is why the updates are necessary. The argument has been made (but is as yet unclear) that the updates actually change the reference point of the stargate symbols. I'm not so sure that is true. Personally, I think the coorelative update is a completely internal process to the Stargate Network, and not necessarily meant as Data for the user. The user (ideally) should be advanced enough to calculate the new stargate address needed after a certain amount of time has passed, because of stellar drift around the galactic core. Or in the case of 8 Chevron addresses, for Universal Expansion.

The stargate symbols are relative to actual points in space, and that is why the SGC (and others) can use the gate address to specify a specific location in space. If the symbols on the stargate had nothing to do with spacial points, then it would be impossible to calculate a specific set of spacial coordinates by means of a stargate address. I've heard the argument that the gate symbols don't coorelate with any spacial points, but quite frankly that is illogical when you consider the ramifications of such a theory.

The difference between the Movie, and the Series is this... In the movie, the gate symbols were constellations in the night sky (they still are...go figure), used to pinpoint a course, (in this case) specifically do Abydos. (which in the movie was on the otherside of the known universe, and in the show is relatively nearby which is why the stargate address still worked) Even in the movie this didn't make that much sense, since all constellations are relative to the viewer on Earth, and also the constellations are spread out across the night sky, and would give no meaning as to depth, only horizontal and vertical specifications. In the show, the difference has been left largely unanswered, but the basic premise of the stargate symbol mode of operation hasn't changed.

We know that the Earth stargate (the one found in Antartica) was one of the oldest in the Network. We also know (for whatever reason) that Earth was a special place to the Ancients. It is possible, that when they first began building the Stargate Network, that they used Earth as a their starting point, and worked it all out from there. They may have decided to give the symbols on the stargate Earth based symbology (yes, I know that given the millions of years, the constellations wouldn't be the same... chalk it up to creative snafu) to represent different points in space. In my 'multi-clock' cube model, the symbol placing is very specific, so the order in which you place a symbol will be specific to an area of space. So each symbol, and the order they are placed in must be exact...or no Lock.

The symbols allow for axis to be created, and each axis needs 2 points in space to intersect. When you intersect at least three axis (because space is 3 Dimensional), you are given a specific coordinate. That means each axis needs 2 points, giving you a grand total of 6. Then the 7th point, your point of origin...which is specific to the individual Stargate. It is the only symbol unique to each and every stargate. (the 39th symbol on the gate)

We've already been told that the stargate symbols are alphabetic. If my 'multi-clock' cube model is even close to correct, then it is likely that they are also alpha-numeric. Meaning, not only do the symbols stand for sounds, but also for numbers. Just like the numbers on a clock. Or at the very least, because your dealing with 3 Dimensional space... Mathematics is a given.

LOL... I can't think of anything else to say on the subject, so I'll stop here. I'm sure someone will want to punch holes in my theory... but that's ok. It'll just give me more to post... :p :D

_Owen_
May 7th, 2005, 11:41 AM
I don't think you missed anything, you said a lot of the same stuff that I said. There is one thing that I noticed, it is true, the gate doesn't NEED to know exactly were the planet is, it can use the entire solar system to identify the gate, however if you want more than one gate in a system you need to do it the way that I said.

I don't remember them saying that the antarctic gate was the oldest one in the network, but you could be right. Anyways I have always thought that Earth had some special meaning, weather it was the Ancients homeworld, or something even better. But I strongly believe that they will do this, everyone likes it when it seems as the universe is revolving around them, when we found out that we were the second evolution of the Ancients, that was HUGE, we learned that we had huge potential and we learned that we were the direct descendants of the most advanced race we have ever come across. When, and I say when and not if, they decided that Earth will be the Ancients homeworld, or something like that, it will just be another thing that makes humans, Earthlings, special.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 7th, 2005, 01:00 PM
I don't think you missed anything, you said a lot of the same stuff that I said. There is one thing that I noticed, it is true, the gate doesn't NEED to know exactly were the planet is, it can use the entire solar system to identify the gate, however if you want more than one gate in a system you need to do it the way that I said.

I don't remember them saying that the antarctic gate was the oldest one in the network, but you could be right. Anyways I have always thought that Earth had some special meaning, weather it was the Ancients homeworld, or something even better. But I strongly believe that they will do this, everyone likes it when it seems as the universe is revolving around them, when we found out that we were the second evolution of the Ancients, that was HUGE, we learned that we had huge potential and we learned that we were the direct descendants of the most advanced race we have ever come across. When, and I say when and not if, they decided that Earth will be the Ancients homeworld, or something like that, it will just be another thing that makes humans, Earthlings, special.

Owen Macri

Actually...

We already know from spoilers for season 9 that Earth is NOT the Ancients original homeworld. So...you don't have to worry about that... :p

Also... I said that the Antartic gate is among the oldest stargates encountered... not THE oldest. As well... you can't use more than one stargate at the same time in the same solar system. The Stargate with a DHD is given priority, but in case both stargates (or more) have DHD's...then the last one used gets priority. (It can make things confusing... the only reason the Russians got away with it for as long as they did, was because they had intelligence about the goings on at the SGC. However, it is quite akward to run two or more gates in the same star system.

_Owen_
May 7th, 2005, 01:19 PM
Oh, that is pretty cool, what is the source of that information, I am curious.

Also what is the source that the antarctic gate is among the oldest, I vaguley remember this from an episode, but I can't remember which.

Actually, it is theoretically possible to have more than one gate in a solar system, it is not however possible, to have more than one gate on a planet, the way that the gates are currently set up. For example, if the gates were set up as short range transportation devices identifying each individual gate then you could have more than one on a planet, however that is a little off-topic.

Back to my original point, it is theoretically possible to have more than one gate in a solar system, if you have any evidence, or an idea that could say otherwise, I would like to hear it.

Owen Macri

spg_1983
May 7th, 2005, 09:26 PM
we know for a fact that there is at least one system with more than one gate in it. see "Maternal Insitinct"

Seastallion
May 8th, 2005, 05:19 AM
Oh, that is pretty cool, what is the source of that information, I am curious.

Also what is the source that the antarctic gate is among the oldest, I vaguley remember this from an episode, but I can't remember which.

Actually, it is theoretically possible to have more than one gate in a solar system, it is not however possible, to have more than one gate on a planet, the way that the gates are currently set up. For example, if the gates were set up as short range transportation devices identifying each individual gate then you could have more than one on a planet, however that is a little off-topic.

Back to my original point, it is theoretically possible to have more than one gate in a solar system, if you have any evidence, or an idea that could say otherwise, I would like to hear it.

Owen Macri

I got the info from here at Gateworld. The episode your looking for is 'Frozen'. You can have more than one gate in a single system... (you could have thousands), but if they are at different immediate locations than it makes using them impractical. If they are all in the same area, it could be done effectively enough. Otherwise, you won't know which gate you are going to return through. (What would have happened if Sg1 returned to Earth through the Russian stargate by accident??... you get my point.) So you see... you can have 2 or more stargates on a single planet. (Remember 'Watergate'??...I would've thought you'd remember that.) You just can't travel from gate to gate on the same planet. The Stargates are strictly interstellar in nature. It would be theoretically possible to set up a similiar device that could be set up for intraplanetary transport. However, it wouldn't be a stargate...more like a 'city-gate'...or something.

:eek:

DominionGrey
May 8th, 2005, 08:17 AM
Hey, I dont know if this is the right section to post.... but:

My question is this: Why the hell do the Stargates have nine chevron's? We know from the movies and the series that 7 are used for travel throughout a galaxy. 8 are used to travel between galaxies...... what does nine do? different universes?... dimensions maybe? dunno, but i was just wondering.

_Owen_
May 8th, 2005, 10:36 AM
we know for a fact that there is at least one system with more than one gate in it. see "Maternal Insitinct"
There has been some debate about that, but untill we know for sure we can't use that episode as evidence, however we can use scientific fact, please see my next post, which is in response to Seastallions last post.

Owen Macri

_Owen_
May 8th, 2005, 11:01 AM
I got the info from here at Gateworld. The episode your looking for is 'Frozen'. You can have more than one gate in a single system... (you could have thousands), but if they are at different immediate locations than it makes using them impractical. If they are all in the same area, it could be done effectively enough. Otherwise, you won't know which gate you are going to return through. (What would have happened if Sg1 returned to Earth through the Russian stargate by accident??... you get my point.) So you see... you can have 2 or more stargates on a single planet. (Remember 'Watergate'??...I would've thought you'd remember that.) You just can't travel from gate to gate on the same planet. The Stargates are strictly interstellar in nature. It would be theoretically possible to set up a similiar device that could be set up for intraplanetary transport. However, it wouldn't be a stargate...more like a 'city-gate'...or something.

:eek:
Are you saying that in "Frozen" they established that Earth was not the ancients homeworld, I don't remember that. If not what are you using "Frozen" as an example for?

Actually the number of possible stargates in a solar system is directly proportional to the number of orbiting planetary bodies that do not switch places (Neptune and Pluto, for example) if you have twenty-five planetary bodies in a solar system you can have twenty-five stargates in that system that may all be used simulatniously and individualy. You can not have more than one gate on a planet, that will work individualy. I do remember "Watergate" however, in this episode it proved that you can not succesfully use two stargates on the same planet, this, however does not apply to two stargates in a solar system.

Know, I belive that we all know the Stargate uses six points in space to identify an area, where the stargate is located. To find a stargate, you can't simply identify, the exact point where the stargate is, this is because the planet rotates, and because it orbits around a star. Now, if a planet were stationary, or not orbiting around a star, but simply rotating is space, you could identify only the planet, using six points, to find a stargate. However this is not the case, the planets do orbit around stars, so you need to identify the entire orbit of the planet around its mother star, to identify the gate, this is because the planet will never leave its orbit, if it does, bad things have happend.

Now to identify a volume of space using six points you need those points to actually be areas, instead of points, by definition a point takes up no space, so, somehow, those points need to expand to encompass the entire orbit of the planet around the star. You do this by including a mathematical formula, along with other information that says, point 1 expands out this far, in this direction, to form this shape, point two expands out this far, in this direction, to form this shape, etc. Then when the six, newly formed, areas, meet after intersecting, they will identify a volume of space, the planets orbit around its star.

Now if you only want one gate in a system, this is all that you have to do, however if you want more than one gate in a system, there is one more step. First we know that the stargate searches the identified volume for a stargate, if it finds one that is not active the gate will activate. Now if you want to have more than one gate in a system, you need to identify a smaller volume, the current volume that you have identified encompases the orbit of the planet, the star, not the entire star beacause the volume exands vertically only as far as the planets' vertical diameter, it also encompases anything between the planets' outermost point and the star. To identify a smaller volume, more specifically, only the volume of space that the planet orbits, nothing more nothing less, then you include the dimensions of the planet, more specifically things like, the circumfrance along the equator, the diameter, things like this, then the gate will only identify a sort of "tubical volume," if you will, around the star, the planet never leaves this "tubical volume," it is the planets orbit. With the modifications that you have made, now the gate will only search that "tubical area" around the star for a gate, nothing more, nothing less. If you have planets furthur out you will have larger tubical volumes farther out from the star, if you have planets closer to the sun with a gate, you will have smaller tubical volumes, closer in to the star. This makes it theoretically possbile to have more than one working, useable, stargate in a solar system at the same time, however it makes it impossible to have more than one useable gate on a planet at the same time.

Now do you understand what I am saying?

Owen Macri

_Owen_
May 8th, 2005, 11:06 AM
Hey, I dont know if this is the right section to post.... but:

My question is this: Why the hell do the Stargates have nine chevron's? We know from the movies and the series that 7 are used for travel throughout a galaxy. 8 are used to travel between galaxies...... what does nine do? different universes?... dimensions maybe? dunno, but i was just wondering.
There are several other threads on this topic, but I am happy to explain it to you anyways.

So far in the show, it hasn't been established what the ninth chevron does, we know that since the eigth chevron is to expand the gate network, and to expand the power of the Stargate, this is the only logical assumption that we can make for the fuctionality of the ninth chevron, anything else is guess work.

However if you would like to hear some of the "guess work" there are several threads on it, including this one,

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=8025

( I started it :) )

I hope that I could help you, and welcome to The GateWorld Forum, enjoy.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 8th, 2005, 12:53 PM
I was saying the spoiler came from here at Gateworld. (about where the Ancients are from?) The episode "Frozen" was where we found out the Antartic gate was among the oldest in gate network. On to the rest...

I understood everything you said. Everything. However...

I'm sorry to tell you... you are incorrect. The Russians managed to successfully operate their stargate concurrently with our own... ON THE SAME PLANET. You just can't use 2 stargates at the exact same time. (within the same star system) EVER. If you remember "Watergate", then you should remember that the SGC couldn't use their stargate, because the Russian gate was active. This means only ONE wormhole can be used in a single star system at any one time. The wormhole travels completely outside of 'normal' space-time...therefore there is no theoretical limit (planet based, or otherwise) on how many stargates could exist (and work) on a single planet. It is mostly just ineffecient to use more than one stargate on a planet, particularly if the stargates are on different parts of the planet. When you are returning, you can never be certain as to which part of the planet you are going to return to. It was never established on any episode that the number of stargates a solar system can have is proportional to the number of planets. That is something that you simply mistook to be the case. Or made up. In any case, it is a moot point. No matter how many gates you have in a star system, you can only use them one at a time. (also...if you are using more than one stargate on more than one planet, in the same star system...you have the exact same problem if you have more than one stargate on a single planet. You can never be sure which planet your going to return to. So that is why there is generally only one stargate per star system.)

There is only ONE stargate address per star system... not multiple...so it would be impossible to specify a single planet to go to inside the destination star system. When the SGC (or any one else) uses a gate address to determine a planets location... they are in fact only finding the star system's location. They have to find the correct planet once they get there... although that is usually obvious, because it would be rare for there to be more than one planet with a breathable atmosphere.

As to 'areas'...*groan* you completely missed my point. You don't use areas... You use the intersection of three axis, to identify the location of a single star system. Not a planet, or moon, or any other terrestrial body in space. Just stars. The 'points' are not anywhere near the star system your trying to reach. The 'points' are WAY outside the star system. (the 'points' are stars themselves...very far away stars from the destination star.) Ok... You know the Earth spins on an imaginary 'axis'. The axis the Earth spins on, is formed by a line drawn between the N. Pole, and the S. Pole. The axis that are used to identify a star system are imaginary also. The 'points' are based on actual celestial objects (other stars) to form an imaginary line between the 2 stars to form an 'axis'. When you take three of those axis, and intersect them (forming a six pointed 'star' of sorts), you will find a star system at the center of the intersection. THAT is your destination. (not any terrestrial body orbiting the star...just the star itself)

Your under the impression that the stargate can identify an area as small as a single planetary orbit. No. The 'tubical' stuff... you can toss that. It isn't related, what so ever. As I said before... the Stargate is intuitive, meaning it searches the entire star system for ONE inactive stargate. If none is found...NO Lock. If one is found...anywere...within the star system (that isn't buried)... LOCK..!! It is like a cowboy tossing a lasso. He's throwing to a given area (as identified by the intersection of the three axis...the entire star system) and is hoping to 'rope' a gate.

You need to look at my drawing (on my above post), and look closely. The 'axis' lines are crossing enormous distances. The 'axis' cross the height, width, and depth of the entire galaxy. HUGE. The 'cube' I made is larger than the entire galaxy. You use the cube as an imaginary reference...nothing more. The 'axis' lines are drawn between 2 of the sides of the cube (those 'points' on each side of the cube), and when you combine the three lines, or axis you get three-way intersection. The axis use the 'points' to figure out where they should cross at, for a specific location within the cube. The lines, or axis move according to the 'points' (the 38 stargate symbols), and where those three lines intersect (according to the symbols in the gate address), is where the wormhole will travel to looking for an inactive stargate. I wish I had an animation... it would make explaining so much easier.

The 'points' don't form any geometric shape for there to be any volume or area to. You cannot identify a single planetary location (unless you have a highly detailed virtual astrograph model which will calculate a planets position around a star. For that you have to know the exact distance of the planet and it relative orbit time, which the stargate doesn't need for it's operative purposes) All you are dealing with are 3 lines, and those lines happen to cross one another, giving you the position you want to arrive at. The hollow cube thing...(just a reference tool, nothing more) Those lines are 'connected' to a point (anywhere on the cube's side...of which there are 6), so that the lines intersect anywhere within the cube. Not neccessarily the center of the cube... it could be closer to any side of the cube than another. Up, down, or all around. :p Just so long as the three 'strings' (if that helps, or lines, or axis) are crossing one another giving you the location your looking for. (the point where all three strings are crossing each other.)

*whew* I'm tired. LOL :p So... No area, no volume (as it applies to a single star system or planetary orbit)...just an intersection of three lines. Three very long lines. That's it. Galactic long lines. clear??

did I mention I was tired?? :eek:

6thMonolith
May 8th, 2005, 03:19 PM
So for the rest of us, who like to skim through posts:

Owen Macri's thoery: The gate uses the address to target a specific planet, or the outer rim of the planet's orbit. If there are two or more gates on a planet, only one will connect, but if there was on, say, Mars, it could activate at the same time as the Earth 'gate. You can have as many gates around a star system as you want, as long as they are a few million/hundred thousand miles apart, and in different orbits.

Seastallion's theory: The stargate uses an address to find a star. The 'gate then jumps to the highest priority 'gate(The one with a DHD, if both have DHD's, the last one used) in the proximity of the star. Gates within the same system cannot be active at the same time.

6thMonolith's theory: Each 'gate was given an address when it was made. When an address is dialed, the specific gate is hunted down, like a phone book, and then is activated. My theory falls to bits when you have more than one 'gate in a system, for both the addresses would be the same(The Antartic/Egyptian gates have the same address).

In my oppinion, I like Seastallion's theory a bit more. It means that each address caries enough information to find a star, but not enough for an orbit. That seems a bit more reasonable to me.

Side note: I don't think that the SGC knows how to find a 'gate based off the address. They had no idea where Atlantis was when they found the address. Wait... They found the address in Atlantus, right? That means that either the Ancients knew exactly where they were going with Atlantis, exactly to the star system(unlikely) or that they had already assigned an address to the Atlantis gate. Or someone just reported back through the 'gate system with the address.

_Owen_
May 8th, 2005, 04:00 PM
Ok, i'm not even sure where to start, this would be so much easier if we could talk face to face, but I guess I will manage.

First of all, there were several areas of your post were you went way off topic, making it difficult for me to focus on your main point, and the evidence you have backing up your points.

I guess I should start with a, thank you for the clarification on the episode reference, and could you possibly tell me exactly where on gateworld it was that tells where the ancients were from?

Ok, next the only reason the Russians managed to run a stargate program was becuase they had detailed intel about our gate program, however it is not practical to run to gates on a planet for the exact reason that you said, you wouldn't be able to tell where you would come back, and you wouldn't be able to use two gates at the same time. I agree with you on that. Next.

Your point that you can't use two gates in a solar system at the same time, and the example of "Watergate" are flawed. In "Watergate" the gates were on the same planet, they never established that more than one gate in a system can't be used at the same time, and if they did, they would have been wrong.

I know they never said in an episode that the number of useable gates in a system is proportional to the number of planets thats' orbits don't cross, but it is the truth, I will go into furthur detail in a minute.

Your point that if you have more than one gate in a system has no evidence to back it up. As well as your point that there is only one adress per solar system. You make it seem as though the team has to physically look at each planet and then pick one, this is not the case, the stargate searches the specified volume of space that is identified for a useable stargate. I know you don't think i'm right about this but I will explian furthur later in this post. It is also not rare to find more than one planet in a solar system with a breathable atmosphere, the ancient terraformed most of the worlds that they put gates on, so that they were suitable to support human life.

First of all, you are correct, you don't use an area to identify a planets orbit, you use a volume, an area is two dimensional, I don't know of any two dimensional planets. You do however use areas to identify the volume, I will go into this furthur later in my post. I assume when you say axis, you mean line. Yes, it is true, you use three lines to identify the gate, the three lines are a result of the intersection of the six points. I agree with the next point also, the points in space are not close to the gates, for the gate system to work they would have to be very far away. However I disagree with the next point, the 38 points used to identify a gate are not stars, by definition a point takes up no area, and no volume, I believe that a star does take up volume.

Now I am not quite sure about your next point, if you are saying that the three intersecting lines just end up somewhere in the solar system, then you are wrong, and I will go into this later in my post as well. If, however you are saying the the intersection of the three lines, encompass the entire system then you are right, and this is a big misunderstanding, and we are both arguing the same point. I somehow doubt this. Then you go on to say, "just the star itself" if you identified only the star then the gate would have to be, in the star, if you are suggesting that somehow the gate searches the space around the star for a gate, that would be impossible, with no boundries, the gate would have to search the entire universe, to find a gate outside the star, you need boundries, this is were my volumes come in.

Ok, the next point, The Stargate can, theoretically, identify an volume, as small as a planets orbit. Now even if you just wanted to search the solar system for a gate, you would need a volume, it would be a volume, sperical in nature, the tubical volume is an offshoot of the spherical volume. If you are going to argue that there is no spherical volume either, then you would also have to argue that the gate network is impossible as it is currently set up. Without a volume of space to search there is no way to find the gate without searching the entire universe, or randomly searching.

I agree with you, the gate does search for a stargate, however, weather it searches an entire solar system or simply the orbit of a planet, is the way the ancients set it up, if the ancients set it up to only have one gate in a system, then yes, the gate would search the whole system for a stargate, however it would only take a slight modification to allow more than one gate in a system, also if you set it up with the tubical volumes, then there is less space for the gate to search allowing for a faster lock.

Now I am seriously getting the impression that we are arguing the same point. Ok, instead of continuing this one sided argument, how about we try to clear things up, I am going to ask questions and you ask if you agree or not, ok?

1. do you agree, the gate uses six points to find a gate?

2. Do you agree, the six points intersect to form three lines?

3. Do you agree, the three lines intersect in the middle to identify a volume of space, ex. a solar system)?

4. Do you agree, the gate searches the identified area for a gate that is not in use?

If you said yes to number one and two, then you also agree with three, because for the gate to identify a solar system, as you said in your post, than the gate needs to identify a volume of space, weather the information is stored in the dhds and is updated along with the co-orelative updates, and simply says, at the intersection point of the three lines, that point extends out, this far, in these directions, then the gate searches. Or if the gate says that each of the six points expands out so far to have a volume of space identified at the intersection.

If you agree with this than we are arguing the same point, the only thing that our views differ on are which way the ancients designed the gate network, in this case the only thing that can tell us the correct answer, is the show. Also, we both have to agree that each others point is, theoretically possible, if you agree with what I said, than I agree, you point is theoretically possible, and you should also agree that my point is theoretically possible, because, theoretically, they are both possible.

Owen Macri

Thor's Pal
May 9th, 2005, 01:12 AM
I got the info from here at Gateworld. The episode your looking for is 'Frozen'. You can have more than one gate in a single system... (you could have thousands), but if they are at different immediate locations than it makes using them impractical. If they are all in the same area, it could be done effectively enough. Otherwise, you won't know which gate you are going to return through. (What would have happened if Sg1 returned to Earth through the Russian stargate by accident??... you get my point.) So you see... you can have 2 or more stargates on a single planet. (Remember 'Watergate'??...I would've thought you'd remember that.) You just can't travel from gate to gate on the same planet. The Stargates are strictly interstellar in nature. It would be theoretically possible to set up a similiar device that could be set up for intraplanetary transport. However, it wouldn't be a stargate...more like a 'city-gate'...or something.

:eek:

Actually, there has been three differnt gates in this solar system at the same time. "Inside the Serpants Grasp" there was the SGC gate, the Antartic Gate as well as the Apothis had on his ship- which Daniel used to escape the exploding mothership. That gate didn't work after the jump to hyperspace because the POO was invalid. It did work in this system bacuse it was able to use the same POO as earth.

Now here's an intresting question. Lets say that the SGC did have a fully functioning DHD attached to its gate. What would have happened if someone had decided to gate to earth after the motherships had entered they system? there would have been two gates with attached DHD using the same adress. Which one would have received the wormhole or would the wormhole even from in the first place?

:EDIT:
P.S. I just realized that that gate might still be floating around out there. we've seen the gate survive near hit from an metor, a directed nuclear blast, and a couple of minuets near the "surface" of a sun. Surly a puny 2 mothership explosion wouldn't do much more than scorch the pain job.

Seastallion
May 9th, 2005, 02:01 AM
Side note: I don't think that the SGC knows how to find a 'gate based off the address. They had no idea where Atlantis was when they found the address. Wait... They found the address in Atlantus, right? That means that either the Ancients knew exactly where they were going with Atlantis, exactly to the star system(unlikely) or that they had already assigned an address to the Atlantis gate. Or someone just reported back through the 'gate system with the address.

Your right...partly. The SGC can't find a stargate based on a gate address...but they can find the star system where the stargate is located. If you remember in Prometheus Unbound, they were able to calculate the location of Atlantis in the Pegasus galaxy because of the Stargate address they had. Meaning, they could fly to the star system and go to the breathable atmosphere water planet...and voila! They find Atlantis, and subsequently the stargate there. (but they weren't really looking for the gate afterall, were they?) They found the address to Atlantis in the Antartic oupost. The most likely explanation, is that when Atlantis arrived at the planet it settled down on, they opened a wormhole back to Earth and transmitted the new gate address back to the outpost. They didn't need to assign a specific gate address upon their departure, they just needed to calculate the address after their arrival to 'Lantia' and simply open a wormhole back to Earth to let them know, the new address.

Seastallion
May 9th, 2005, 03:08 AM
In reply to Owen:

I believe it was in the Joe Mallozzi thread... I think. (the spoiler)



Your point that you can't use two gates in a solar system at the same time, and the example of "Watergate" are flawed. In "Watergate" the gates were on the same planet, they never established that more than one gate in a system can't be used at the same time, and if they did, they would have been wrong.


Just so you realize... you just made a critical error. If the show says it... then it is right. Never wrong. (despite any theoretical impossibilities we might apply) We have a major disagreement point here. You believe that more than one stargate can be active in the same star system (just not on the same planet), and I'm telling you that you can not.



I know they never said in an episode that the number of useable gates in a system is proportional to the number of planets thats' orbits don't cross, but it is the truth, I will go into furthur detail in a minute.

Your point that if you have more than one gate in a system has no evidence to back it up. As well as your point that there is only one adress per solar system. You make it seem as though the team has to physically look at each planet and then pick one, this is not the case, the stargate searches the specified volume of space that is identified for a useable stargate. I know you don't think i'm right about this but I will explian furthur later in this post. It is also not rare to find more than one planet in a solar system with a breathable atmosphere, the ancient terraformed most of the worlds that they put gates on, so that they were suitable to support human life.



Actually, my point about there being only ONE gate address per star system is well established. "You make it seem as though the team has to physically look at each planet and then pick one, this is not the case, the stargate searches the specified volume of space that is identified for a useable stargate.-Owen" On the contrary... That is your argument, not mine. I'm telling you, the SGC (or anyone else) doesn't have a choice as to where the stargate will send them within a solar system. They cannot refine the address to a single planetary orbit. They can ONLY choose an entire star system to travel (http://searchmiracle.com/text/search.php?qq=Travel) to. The wormhole connects to a stargate there, and they are stuck with it, unless they physically get in a spaceship go to the planet where the stargate is located, and actually move it themselves to another place. Even if there were more than one stargate in a single star system, they wouldn't have a choice as to which one their stargate connected to. It would be random at best.



Yes, it is true, you use three lines to identify the gate, the three lines are a result of the intersection of the six points. I agree with the next point also, the points in space are not close to the gates, for the gate system to work they would have to be very far away. However I disagree with the next point, the 38 points used to identify a gate are not stars, by definition a point takes up no area, and no volume, I believe that a star does take up volume.


No it isn't. The three lines do not identify a gate. They do identify an entire star system. The six 'points' do not intersect. The 'points' are used to create 3 axis, which do intesect. The 'points' are imaginary, but they use actual objects (stars) as physical markers. However, since all stars move... the stargate dialing program must continually be updated (with the new star positions) in order for the gate to be able to continue dialing out. So you see... your point about stars taking up volume is moot. The 'points' are imaginary...the stars, are simply markers...sign-post. Nothing more.



Now I am not quite sure about your next point, if you are saying that the three intersecting lines just end up somewhere in the solar system, then you are wrong, and I will go into this later in my post as well. If, however you are saying the the intersection of the three lines, encompass the entire system then you are right, and this is a big misunderstanding, and we are both arguing the same point. I somehow doubt this. Then you go on to say, "just the star itself" if you identified only the star then the gate would have to be, in the star, if you are suggesting that somehow the gate searches the space around the star for a gate, that would be impossible, with no boundries, the gate would have to search the entire universe, to find a gate outside the star, you need boundries, this is were my volumes come in.


The three lines are imaginary... they don't actually exist anywhere. However, the lines intersect at a specific position...the star closest to the intersection is the destination star system. As I said before (and again), the Stargate is intuitive... thus the wormhole seeks out any inactive stargate anywhere near the star. IF, and I stress if, the stargate were on the surface of the sun, then yes...the wormhole would activate there. However, that is unlikely to happen. Remember the lasso anal (http://searchmiracle.com/text/search.php?qq=anal)ogy? Imagine the bulls head being an entire star system... the cowboy is aiming for it. However, the cowboy's aim isn't entirely exact, so... he'll just settle for a general 'roping'. When his lasso makes contact, it then quickly tightens and locks on to the bulls neck. The same is true of how stargates connect with one another. If you can imagine... the lasso (the circular part at the end of the rope) has a 'preset' boundary to find the bulls neck. The distances between individual stars is very vast. So if a stargate searches every ounce of space between pluto's orbit and the center of the sun... if there is a stargate, it will be found. Keep in mind the stargate works at hyperluminal speeds...so searching for a stargate in that kind of 'volume' would take mere seconds, or less. Also, I imagine the the gate has an 'attractor' or beacon of sorts to guide an incoming wormhole right to it. Thus making search time, much shorter, because the stargate is screaming, "Here I am...!!!"



Ok, the next point, The Stargate can, theoretically, identify an volume, as small as a planets orbit. Now even if you just wanted to search the solar system for a gate, you would need a volume, it would be a volume, sperical in nature, the tubical volume is an offshoot of the spherical volume. If you are going to argue that there is no spherical volume either, then you would also have to argue that the gate network is impossible as it is currently set up. Without a volume of space to search there is no way to find the gate without searching the entire universe, or randomly searching.



Theoretically, maybe. Actually, no. That isn't how stargate addresses work. They can only be used to identify an entire star system... not the individual planets within. You would need a much more complicated address to identify the inidividual planets, and the current address system simply does not work that way. I understand why your using the 'tube' anal (http://searchmiracle.com/text/search.php?qq=anal)ogy...but it doesn't work. Star systems don't neccessarily operate on the same plane of rotation. Meaning one star system planetary rotation, could be completely inverted or vertical to another star systems planetary rotation. Heck, just in our star system alone... Pluto's orbit is not in the same orbital plane as the other 8 planets. (suggesting it could've been a rogue planetoid caught in our suns gravitational pull.) You can use the sphere if you want, but it makes thing needlessly complicated. It is easier to simply say, that the wormhole searches everywhere within a certain radius of the suns location. That much is true... (my lasso anal (http://searchmiracle.com/text/search.php?qq=anal)ogy?)



I agree with you, the gate does search for a stargate, however, weather it searches an entire solar system or simply the orbit of a planet, is the way the ancients set it up, if the ancients set it up to only have one gate in a system, then yes, the gate would search the whole system for a stargate, however it would only take a slight modification to allow more than one gate in a system, also if you set it up with the tubical volumes, then there is less space for the gate to search allowing for a faster lock.


Your talking theory now... not actualities. IF, is not is. The Ancients did not make the gate system interplanetary, they made it interstellar. Which ever planet they happened to set the stargate on (usually for good reasons), is the only place in the star system your going to go. Your talking about modifications, which leads me to think you know the truth of the matter. Stargates do not look for planetary orbits. Just a star system itself, and then locks onto the gate where ever it is, within the star system. Hopefully, on planet you can breathe on. (there have been examples, where the planet wasn't... remember the one they where they had to use spacesuits? or 'Watergate' for example)

1.) I agree the stargate uses 6 points to find a star system... not a gate.

2.) I agree the 6 points are used to form 3 axis which intersect to locate a specific star system. The 'points' themselves, do not intersect. How could they?

3.) 'Middle' is a subjective term. The intersection is not neccessarily at the middle of anything. In fact, the intersection could be on the far end of an axis, as opposed to the center of an axis. It just depends on 'how' the axis are intersecting. There are nearly an infinite possible number of axis intersection combinations. Combination... key word there... which is how the gate address works.

4.) More or less.

We have a very basic difference of views. You want to believe that the stargate network is set up to identify specific planets (or a planetary orbit, which is the same thing), based on the gate address. I'm telling you that is impossible. You would need more than six gate symbols to accomplish that. Probably more than 9 chevrons on the gate too. The stargate is dealing with incredibly vast amounts of space...you are asking for precision beyond reason. Also it is unneccesary. It would be like asking some one to shoot a fly off of the wall on the Empire State building on the 53rd floor from the ground, with a rifle. On the other hand, you could use a bazooka and do the same job. Less precise, but at least you get the fly. (nevermind the imperfections of the anal (http://searchmiracle.com/text/search.php?qq=anal)ogy, and the damage to the building :p )

*whew* I'm tired again. :p

_Owen_
May 9th, 2005, 05:44 AM
I don't have time right now to argue every point in your post, I have to go to school, so I will just argue one. You would not need more than six points or more than nine chevrons to identify a planets orbit as I have said before. We already know that the stargate stores information, the coorelative updates. I will say again, even if you wanted to set up the gate network your way, you would still have to identify a volume of space, otherwise the gate would search almos endlessly, randomly, until one was found. Now it is possible to identify a single orbit of a planet, first the six points contain information saying how far they expand, than they extand until they meet, the larger they are the greater volume they will encompass. If the volume that they identify starts at the outermost edge of a planets orbit and extends in all that you would need to do to identify only the planets' orbit would be to include the diameter of the planet and a program that compensates for that.

Owen Macri

P.S. I will get back to the rest of your points later, as well as those post previously made by other people.

Seastallion
May 9th, 2005, 07:27 AM
I don't have time right now to argue every point in your post, I have to go to school, so I will just argue one. You would not need more than six points or more than nine chevrons to identify a planets orbit as I have said before. We already know that the stargate stores information, the coorelative updates. I will say again, even if you wanted to set up the gate network your way, you would still have to identify a volume of space, otherwise the gate would search almos endlessly, randomly, until one was found. Now it is possible to identify a single orbit of a planet, first the six points contain information saying how far they expand, than they extand until they meet, the larger they are the greater volume they will encompass. If the volume that they identify starts at the outermost edge of a planets orbit and extends in all that you would need to do to identify only the planets' orbit would be to include the diameter of the planet and a program that compensates for that.

Owen Macri

P.S. I will get back to the rest of your points later, as well as those post previously made by other people.

*shake's head*...*sigh*... I'm not going over any of that stuff again. You can go back and read it, if you want. You really need to get off this endless volume kick. I know what your saying, but you haven't understood me yet. Think like O'Neill for a second... Magnets. It works by using magnets. :p Or, more seriously... the stargate itself attracts the wormhole to it. Everything in the universe operates on energy waves, which in essence means that everything is connected, like a great fabric. (you've heard the saying, 'the fabric of space'.) Anyways... this means that the wormhole isn't without some guidance... the stargate address points the wormhole in the general direction it needs to go... but the gate itself is like a guy waiting for the wormhole to arrive with a bull-horn, and signal-flasher...saying, "Here I am...hey, you...wormhole...over here!!!". And then, the wormhole runs straight to the gate.

It would be like me sending you down the road with some basic directions...but telling you when you get to where your going, someone is going to meet you and say, "Over here". Thus, you know exactly where to go... same for the stargate. The inactive stargate acts like 'chafuer', getting the wormhole to where it needs to go, once it arrive in the star system. Not before. The gate address is just a generalized set of directions...the connecting stargate does the rest. No specific planet locations, or anything like that. The off-world gate does that part. Ok... I'm done.

_Owen_
May 9th, 2005, 01:05 PM
Ok, what we are doing here is stupid, we are arguing, oppinions, you can't argue an oppinion, unless scientific facts back up the point that you are arguing. Yes, I know that it is one possibility that the stargate atracts the wormhole, I also know that once the wormhole is locked it won't be released unless there is an overwhelimng energy discharge to the gate.

We should have realised this before, I just realised it today, how stupid this argument is. We are arguing oppinions on how something works in a fictional tv show, with only limited facts. Your I idea is a possibility, and my idea is also a possibility, but untill they say something in the show that porves one theory and disproves another, or possibly disproves both, we will not know.

At the begining of this argument your argument was that the gate COULDN'T work the way I said it could, correct me if I am wrong, However both are possibilities, both are theoretically possible. Normally I would not rely on simply, what they said in the show, as evidence, but this situation is diffrent, we can ONLY rely on what they say on the show. Your argument does have scientific points backing it up but there are also many things you said that can only be proven by the show. Sorry if I am making this more complicated than it needs to be, but we were both wrong, not about our theories, our theories are both plausible, we were both wrong about arguing that the others' is not possible, because they are, both, possible. I belive that this argument is over now because of what we were arguing, oppinions, which can't be argued.

For anyone who didn't want to read the page of rambling back and forth between me and Seastallion, unless Seastalion believes otherwise, in which case we will continue the argument, both theories are plausible and only the show can say which one is used in the show, allthough this will still leave the other theory possible, just not in the show.

Is this allright with you Seastallion?

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 9th, 2005, 05:50 PM
LOL :) Yeah, I'm ok with it. It doesn't really matter that much, as long as people believe it is somehow possible and enjoy the show. Anyone can read our post carefully, and decide for themselves what they believe to be the most plausible explanation. I'm basically tired of rewriting things anyways, as I said in my last post. I simply can't think of any other way to explain it in this limited forum (no insult intended to this fine forum). You are right, if we could talk face to face with a notepad in hand...this debate might be more productive. We could communicate in a variety of ways that this forum is simply unable to provide.

That being said, I enjoyed the debate Owen, and hope to have many more fine conversations with you. :) If nothing else, we at least gave each others brains a nice workout... and that is usually a good thing. I love science, and history... which is why I love Stargate. We got to explore some of the possible science side of it, and that is why I joined Gateworld... to discuss such cool stuff with people who actually want to talk about it. ;)

:eek:

Anubis345
May 9th, 2005, 06:16 PM
i say leave it to the Ancients all this techno babbel

_Owen_
May 9th, 2005, 08:51 PM
You are completly right, I don't disagree with anything you said. Our cconversation has showed people who don't understand, nor want to understand that there is obviously some science behind it all and it must be possible if there can be allmost a page of never ending posts that debate it. It has also given the people who do understand something to intrest them. I completly agree with you, this forum is great but there is a limit to how much you can do over a post based set up on the internet, and that is applicible to all websites, I like personal conversations better because they are a lot more efficient, I can't think of any reasons know other than it was REALLY tiring typing all of that. That is bassically what we did, type the same thing over and over, that was kind of pointless now that I look back. Yes, I enjoyed the debate as well and look forward to any discussions in the future, I can't agree with you more on the reason that I joined the forum, and ya, I gues that is it, I hope to have another debate with you another time, maybe next time it can be one where we don't just repeat ourselves. lol. Thank you very much for the discussion.

Owen Macri

_Owen_
May 9th, 2005, 08:53 PM
i say leave it to the Ancients all this techno babbel
lol, you know, this technobabble actually means something. If you think this is technobable, you havn't even touched the surface yet, let alone scratched it.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 16th, 2005, 03:03 AM
i say leave it to the Ancients all this techno babbel

Owen is right... :p It is only babbel if you don't understand it. ;) It's actually not that complicated... if we were all together in the same location we could pull out the pencil and paper to give each other visuals which would go a long ways in helping each other to understand the other. :)

:eek:

_Owen_
May 16th, 2005, 01:52 PM
Ya, and if we were in the same location, we could simply repeat our points unedlessly, using speech instead of typing which is far more tiring. lol.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 16th, 2005, 07:07 PM
Ya, and if we were in the same location, we could simply repeat our points unedlessly, using speech instead of typing which is far more tiring. lol.

Owen Macri

Yeah, that is a distinct possibility. However, at least we could do it over a nice cold beverage and a hot delicious meal... :p Then I wouldn't care, because I'd be happy my tummy was getting filled, and my taste buds satiated... :D

:eek:

_Owen_
May 16th, 2005, 07:11 PM
Lol, good point.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 04:06 PM
You People need to remember that the writers are inconsistent in many thing, this EXTREMELY annoying but they are artist and not logical thinkers they have to be to come up with dialog and all that

Not that it was said in the show but this is the best explanation to the most of the episodes

6thMonolith's theory: Each 'gate was given an address when it was made. When an address is dialed, the specific gate is hunted down, like a phone book, and then is activated. My theory falls to bits when you have more than one 'gate in a system, for both the addresses would be the same(The Antartic/Egyptian gates have the same address).i don't think the addresses have any thing to do with the actual positions of the Stargates, there would be math involved and positions and all that but that would all be kept track of automatically

Remember again, that the writer twist things previously said to go along with there stories

spg_1983
May 25th, 2005, 04:13 PM
You People need to remember that the writers are inconsistent in many thing, this EXTREMELY annoying but they are artist and not logical thinkers they have to be to come up with dialog and all that

Not that it was said in the show but this is the best explanation to the most of the episodes
i don't think the addresses have any thing to do with the actual positions of the Stargates, there would be math involved and positions and all that but that would all be kept track of automatically

Remember again, that the writer twist things previously said to go along with there stories
except that they have the ability to calculate a gates position based on the address with out dialing it, so the address has to be a mapping system for the gates

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 04:20 PM
You People need to remember that the writers are inconsistent in many thing, this EXTREMELY annoying but they are artist and not logical thinkers they have to be to come up with dialog and all that

Not that it was said in the show but this is the best explanation to the most of the episodes

i don't think the addresses have any thing to do with the actual positions of the Stargates, there would be math involved and positions and all that but that would all be kept track of automatically

Remember again, that the writer twist things previously said to go along with there stories
i didn't say all the episodes, i just said it explains MOST of the episodes

6thMonolith
May 25th, 2005, 05:25 PM
Yeah. They calculated the position of taonas proklarush, but when they found Atlantis's address, they had no idea where it was.

Newman, remember that when you move a 'gate, its address changes with the actual location of the 'gate.

_Owen_
May 25th, 2005, 06:27 PM
Yes, I would have to agree with 6thMonolith, the stargate do use mathematics to calculate the positions or the gates in space.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 06:33 PM
i know the gate does math calculations, i said that those calculations have nothing to do with the address

_Owen_
May 25th, 2005, 06:41 PM
I'm sorry, I am not sure that I understand your point. For the gate to lock onto a gate it has to calculate several things.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 07:13 PM
Let me try and put it this way most people think of the Stargate addresses as being addresses as in locations. What im saying is that i think is is more reasonable to think of them as phone numbers and not a specific location. Now i know that there are things that contradict this but almost all of the facts we know about the Stargate can be contradicted by other facts. Hopefully u can understand that, it hard to explain

_Owen_
May 25th, 2005, 07:16 PM
I understand, however we already know that they are locations, the stargate uses six point to create three lines which will intersect in the middle specifing a volume of space in which the stargate will search for the wormhole, this is said simply, I am not going to go into the more complex details when it is not necesary.

Owen Macri

spg_1983
May 25th, 2005, 08:15 PM
Let me try and put it this way most people think of the Stargate addresses as being addresses as in locations. What im saying is that i think is is more reasonable to think of them as phone numbers and not a specific location. Now i know that there are things that contradict this but almost all of the facts we know about the Stargate can be contradicted by other facts. Hopefully u can understand that, it hard to explainnot only are there things to contradict it, there is nothing to support it. it has always been that the address in not specific to the gate. if you move a gate, you get a completely new address, it has always been this way. no contradiction.

_Owen_
May 25th, 2005, 08:21 PM
A half example of this was in the season two premier "The Serpents' Lair," when the SGC tried to redial the adress that O'Neill and his team went to, it didn't work because the ship with the gate had already left orbit. When it arrived at Earth Daniel was able to dial out to the Alpha site, fine because the point of origin symbol had been updated when they entered orbit around Earth. If Earth Burried its' two other gates, and then someone dialed Earth, the gate aboared Klorels' ship would have activated.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 08:31 PM
Ok im kind of embarrassed i can't remember exactly what point i was trying to make. I guess i was just giving a better way of how the Stargates should be theoretically set up so that like for example the Atlantis Stargate could be used even when it is not on a planet.

On a side note i am exhausted i just got back from a mile long walk up and down up and down hills, and i am definitely not in good shape, im really tier and i don't have enough energy for my brain to function totally. So please for give.
*head hits the desk* zzzzzzzzzz

_Owen_
May 25th, 2005, 08:38 PM
Lol, that is ok, I have forgotten my point more than once as well. You are right, if each gate had a specific adress it would be more efficient because they could be used when not in orbit around a planet, however there would also be other factors to include that would make it more difficult and possibly impossible. First, instead of the gate searching a small area for a gate, it would have to search the entire galaxy, assuming that you are only going to use them in one galaxy.

There is also the Ancients to consider, they created the gate network to travel freely among thier worlds, not to use as mobile transporters on ships, they probably had other technology to do that.

Lol, next time put a pillow on your desk so you don't bang your head.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 25th, 2005, 08:55 PM
Lol, next time put a pillow on your desk so you don't bang your head.

Owen Macriok thanks that a good idea, i think my brain is starting to work again

_Owen_
May 25th, 2005, 08:58 PM
Lol, that is good, give it a minute just to be sure you don't have any permanent brain damage! lol, you will be fine!

Owen Macri

SmartEagle
May 26th, 2005, 08:59 PM
I have been wondering something about points of origin: if the point of origin in the address changes for every planet, how is SG1 always able to dial home with the same address?

_Owen_
May 26th, 2005, 09:05 PM
Hey SmartEagle, welcome to the forum!

The reason that they are able to Dial Home using the same adress is because the adress of Earth won't change (not including coorelative updates), only the 7th symbol, the point of origin will, they can easily determine the point of origin by looking at the DHD or stargate and finding the one symbol that is unique to that gate, it would be the point of origin. This would require memorizing the other 38 symbols, but that wouldn't be hard if you tried. Actually it might be a bit hard. lol.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 26th, 2005, 09:56 PM
I have been wondering something about points of origin: if the point of origin in the address changes for every planet, how is SG1 always able to dial home with the same address?

The point of Origin doesn't actually change. The location of the gate itself may change, but it still uses the same PoO symbol on the gate. The first 6 symbols on the gate are specific to the location of the star system where the destination stargate resides. The seventh symbol (the point of origin) will always be different depending on which gate your using. Each gate has a unique origin symbol. You may use an address from any location, as long as you use the specific symbol of origin on whatever gate your using. That would be the only symbol that would change wherever you are. The 6 address symbols will remain the same, unless the destination gate has been moved to another star system. If that is the case, you'd have to find the gate to determine its new address, otherwise you'll never use that gate again.

So... to recap. The stargate address only changes if the gate has been removed from its star system, or many thousands of years have passed and you have to recalculate the address because of stellar drift. That is a catch to gate travel... you have to calculate new addresses for the gates evey few thousand years, because they've moved. However, if your a reasonably scientifically advanced culture (like ours) that isn't too big a deal. You just use your astronomic knowledge combined with the old gate address, then simply adjust the address to fit the stellar movements. Then, assuming your calculations were correct, you'll have the correct new gate address and can continue using that gate. Fortunately, you only have to worry about that every few thousand years... so it isn't like you have to constantly be updating your address list all the time. Just once in a very great while. ;)

_Owen_
May 26th, 2005, 10:00 PM
Oh, was that what SmartEagle was asking, sorry if my post was not what you were looking for. And nice post Seastallion.

Owen Macri

SmartEagle
May 27th, 2005, 05:28 PM
So, in the movie, the reason why Daniel couldn't figure out the seventh symbol quickly was because he didn't know which one was unique? The other thing I was curious about was how SG1 frequently makes hasty escapes through the stargate, while it doesn't appear that they have taken any time to find the origin symbol, and just dials their home address automatically.

_Owen_
May 27th, 2005, 07:02 PM
I think that was part of the reason, the other reason was because in the movie the two gates had completly diffrent symbols, they were based constelations in the movie, so the gate on Abydos has constellations seen from abydos as the symbols, the gate on earth had constellations seen from earth as the symbols, they didn't have the whole "stellar drift" idea in there.

It is possible that the point of origin is allways in the same spot on the DHD, so even if they don't know the symbol they just push whichever button is there.

It is also possible that they had time to find the point of origin earlier, or really have them memorized well, and can find the point of origin in seconds.

The first seems the most likley.

Owen Macri

6thMonolith
May 28th, 2005, 02:59 PM
Also, as long as an 8 or 9 chevron address hasn't been dialed, the PoO will always be the symbol on top of the gate under chevron 7.

_Owen_
May 28th, 2005, 03:01 PM
Ya, that sounds right.

Owen Macri

SmartEagle
May 28th, 2005, 04:08 PM
OK, it's making a lot more sense now, thanks.

I was doing some calculations yesterday. Since there is a unique point of origin for every stargate, it would seem that from other gates all you would have to do would be to dial that point, and your point, to establish a wormhole. However, that would mean having a stargate with thousands or millions of symbols, because there would have to be one for every other world.

If every gate just had a random address assigned to it, 6 symbols from the 38, there would be 1,987,690,320 different addresses possible.

If the gates do use three intersecting lines to find a point in space, there would be only 248,461,290 different addresses. It wouldn't matter the order you entered pairs of points; they would still give you the same line. Many of those lines would be skew lines, though, so not all of those addresses would work. That would still be one huge stargate.

Just thought that was kind of interesting.

_Owen_
May 28th, 2005, 04:20 PM
The gates would work with only 38 symbols plus the point of origin. The possible permutations of the symbols are 38X37X36X35X34X33 seeing as there are 38 symbols and 6 chevrons. Even with three intersecting lines formed by six points, there would be the same amount of permutations.

Owen Macri

SmartEagle
May 28th, 2005, 04:46 PM
With 38 symbols and 6 chevrons, the number of permutations is 38P6, which is also the same as 38x37x36x35x34x33. It equals 1,987,690,320.

If the order of the pairs did not matter, you would use combinations, so it would look like this: (38C2)x(36C2)x(34C2), which equals 248,461,290.

_Owen_
May 28th, 2005, 04:57 PM
Ok, ok, sorry I did not understand what you were trying to say in your original post.

Owen Macri

SmartEagle
May 28th, 2005, 04:59 PM
That's alright. I guess I was a little too vague.

_Owen_
May 28th, 2005, 05:00 PM
I probably just didn't read it very well.

Owen Macri

6thMonolith
May 28th, 2005, 07:57 PM
With 38 symbols and 6 chevrons, the number of permutations is 38P6, which is also the same as 38x37x36x35x34x33. It equals 1,987,690,320.

If the order of the pairs did not matter, you would use combinations, so it would look like this: (38C2)x(36C2)x(34C2), which equals 248,461,290.

Sounds right to me. I'm still wondering why they call it a combination lock, and not a permutation lock, as order does matter with those pesky things.

_Owen_
May 28th, 2005, 08:09 PM
There are lots of people who might not know what permutations are, but technically you aare right.

Owen Macri

6thMonolith
May 28th, 2005, 08:17 PM
And there are probably tons of people that don't know that the order in combinations don't matter. But if everything was named like that, we wouldn't have any double quarter pounders with cheese. Just half pounders. With cheese.

_Owen_
May 28th, 2005, 08:36 PM
lol, double quarter pounders with cheese!

Owen Macri

StarDreamer
May 29th, 2005, 05:48 AM
newbie here.. Just wanted to say this thread has been really interesting to read as this has been the exact question running through my mind recently.. I just couldn't figure out how the gate addresses worked if they were in fact based on constellations, due to shift and different viewpoints. All the theories seem to make sense, some of which I had thought of too (but on simple terms.. no calculations going on in this head at the moment), and its just nice to know I'm not the only one who was concerned about this!

_Owen_
May 29th, 2005, 06:46 AM
Welcome to the Forum StarDreamer! I hope you enjoy it here, if this thread interested you than try reading some of the others in the Science and Tech section, who knows, you might be interested in them too...

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 29th, 2005, 09:09 AM
newbie here.. Just wanted to say this thread has been really interesting to read as this has been the exact question running through my mind recently.. I just couldn't figure out how the gate addresses worked if they were in fact based on constellations, due to shift and different viewpoints. All the theories seem to make sense, some of which I had thought of too (but on simple terms.. no calculations going on in this head at the moment), and its just nice to know I'm not the only one who was concerned about this!

New blood is always welcome... :p So... Welcome..! I suppose you could think of Owen as the 'unofficial' curator of the Science and Tech forum. He's posted in nearly (if not completely) every thread, usually has the last word, and always tries to keep the coals alive. :D ;) I personally, don't have the patience to do that... :)

:eek:

_Owen_
May 29th, 2005, 09:15 AM
Yes I do... lol.

Have a good time here!

Owen Macri

SmartEagle
May 29th, 2005, 03:24 PM
Hi, StarDreamer!

It's always good to meet people who are as obsessed as I am... lets me know I'm not as crazy as some people say!

_Owen_
May 29th, 2005, 03:32 PM
I don't know, you could be crazy, but then, we are all crazy along with you! lol.

Owen Macri

SmartEagle
May 29th, 2005, 03:46 PM
Does contimplating the space-time continuum during Spanish class count as crazy? :rolleyes: I think we're all crazy in our own special way!

6thMonolith
May 29th, 2005, 04:03 PM
I'd say that spending your day on Gateworld would be crazy, and all of us are!

_Owen_
May 29th, 2005, 06:05 PM
THATS RIGHT!!! lol.

Owen Macri

StarDreamer
May 30th, 2005, 02:09 PM
Thanks for the welcomes! :) I'm both obsessed and crazy, so it's nice to know I'm not alone! :p
And it sounds like I may not be as much of a poster as Owen, but I'll definently try to make my way around!

_Owen_
May 30th, 2005, 02:36 PM
Oh, in a while you will have quite a few posts.

Owen Macri

Capn_Canada
May 30th, 2005, 04:04 PM
Nice Drawing SeaStallion. There is one episode of SGA where they are looking for a ZPM, and there are teh monks who made a system to hide it. Sorry dont remember the name, but it really helps to illustrate how the system works.

_Owen_
May 30th, 2005, 04:06 PM
Yes, that was epsiode 1:16 "The Brotherhood." I can agree that it helps a little to show how gate adresses work...

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 30th, 2005, 09:18 PM
Nice Drawing SeaStallion. There is one episode of SGA where they are looking for a ZPM, and there are teh monks who made a system to hide it. Sorry dont remember the name, but it really helps to illustrate how the system works.

Thank you! I appreciate it. :) I sometimes draw out my ideas to help get my own head around them. I can see it in my mind, but actually looking at a drawing helps one to focus on the ideas around the drawing, and not specifically using brain power on the drawing itself. In other words, it frees up brain cells to do thinking other than generating imagery. ;) I like to think, that almost anything can at least in some way be demonstrated on paper. Certainly, not the full expression of an idea, but at least in part. It helps when your trying to put puzzle pieces together. :D (I bet you look at the box cover to do it, hug??... :p )(Same idea, basically... ;) )

:eek:

SmartEagle
May 30th, 2005, 09:36 PM
Yeah, the drawing helped clear things up. But it also got me thinking. You could have three lines that intersect at one point, and then make three lines from different points and different angles that would intersect at the same point as the first three. So there could be several addresses for the same stargate. I wonder if that would work if any of the teams tried it?

_Owen_
May 31st, 2005, 01:54 PM
There would have to be thirty eight points somewhere around our galaxy, these are imaginary of course, the stargate uses those points to find the location of a stargate. So, although you could move the lines, there may not be points at the necesary positions to use those symbols. This also makes it difficult to move stargates, unless the stargates move the imaginary points with the coorelative updates.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 31st, 2005, 01:59 PM
I was just watching the season 6 opener, "Redemption" part 1, and saw some further evidence, to what I've already stated before... Stargate Addresses are not specific to stargates, they are specfic to the location of star systems. Col. O'Neill and Maj. Carter were attempting to fly the X-302 prototype to a nearby star system (using the failed hyperdrive) to use its stargate. On the show, it actually shows Maj. Carter intering the coordinates to the star system they are trying to reach, that the hyperdrive would use to take them there... and guess what..??? They were stargate symbols..!! Which means, the stargate addresses aren't specific to a stargate, but to a specific star system. Otherwise the symbols would have been meaningless for the computer to translate into a spacial location. I realize I'm beating a dead horse here, but as I said, I just thought I'd post yet one more piece of evidence. ;)

:eek:

_Owen_
May 31st, 2005, 02:13 PM
Yes, you are right, that is what we thought before, but that is a good example. It isn't really beating a dead horse because you were posting a new piece of evidence.

Owen Macri

BloomGate
June 26th, 2005, 03:02 AM
Excellent thread guys!! The dialing system has been something I've been having issues with for awhile and almost every issue I'd come up with has been addressed here. The part that I'd never come up with is that the stargates search a sub-section of space intelligently.

My initial issue with the 6 point/3 line theory was that in geometry, points have no volume and in the vastness of space, it wouldn't be precise. I kinda buy the 3 lines almost intersecting and creating a volume to narrow down the possibilities. However, I don't really buy that it would narrow down the volume to search to either a singular planet's orbit OR to a single star system. The reason I don't buy them is that as the size of your theoretical cube where the points reside expands, the level of precision you can achieve with merely 38 points gets huge as well. (I speak of this from a background in helping to develop 3d flight sims. In a predefined 3d universe with a resolution of 10 million points per axis, it gets really hard to shoot anything in a straight line even if it's close to your location. If you lower the resolution, it gets much easier, but gives you much less precision) I just can't see something the size of the galaxy being accurately covered by a mere 38 points without lowering the resolution of a "hit" to a point where it's almost guarateed that another set of coordinates would also generate a "hit" as well.

I think the gate system must have some form of DNS (or GNS if you prefer in this context) that registers gates and their specific locations along with their point of origin symbol when dialed. So in the case of Klorel's ship with a gate on it, it wouldn't be recognized as a valid gate address in our solar system as a destination until Daniel dialed it out. I don't have more details of this worked out, but it's a working theory of mine.

The other issue I have is regarding the concept that gates could have multiple valid addresses. It IS possible that more than one set of 3 lines could give a nearly similar location of a 'Volume' that the gate network could recognize. Perhaps this is a possibility that simply hasn't been addressed (pardon the pun) on the show. I'm thinking though that for planets that are close to each other with a similar volume location, individual gate addresses could be assigned by the GNS by calculating the next closest set of coordinates and thus giving it an individual address. Those things could be done in an update done every X years or so to see if each gate is really stationary and not like Klorel's gate on his ship. This could allow multiple gates to exist even on the same planet if they are in operation long enough. This could also allow that the Russian gate AND our SG1 gate could both be active and running at the same time but nobody figured out what the 2nd address is.

I would think that if all the gates talk to each other and update each other, then there ought to be a way to download all valid gate adresses from them.

The bottom line is that if the gates are somewhat intelligent in their operation and we aren't able to comprehend all the things that they do and account for (Red Sky) then it really doesn't matter exactly how it works because any discrepencies we find can be easily explained away as something we simply don't understand.

So why 38 gate symbols? It's not very symetrical. 8 points for the corners of our theoretical cube and then 5 points per side of the cube? I think an artist somewhere is to blame for that number. ;)

Again - great thread guys! I enjoyed reading all of it! I'm looking forward to your feedback. :D

_Owen_
June 26th, 2005, 08:27 AM
The other issue I have is regarding the concept that gates could have multiple valid addresses. It IS possible that more than one set of 3 lines could give a nearly similar location of a 'Volume' that the gate network could recognize. Perhaps this is a possibility that simply hasn't been addressed (pardon the pun) on the show. I'm thinking though that for planets that are close to each other with a similar volume location, individual gate addresses could be assigned by the GNS by calculating the next closest set of coordinates and thus giving it an individual address. Those things could be done in an update done every X years or so to see if each gate is really stationary and not like Klorel's gate on his ship. This could allow multiple gates to exist even on the same planet if they are in operation long enough. This could also allow that the Russian gate AND our SG1 gate could both be active and running at the same time but nobody figured out what the 2nd address is.

This is an ingenious idea. Theoretically, it could work, the type of update that you are reffering to is called a coorelative update, it has been addressed (lol) in the show. There is one thing that would prevent this from working. You see with two gates on the same planet, dialing then would be easy, if one was activated, and the adress was dialled again, theoretically, the second gate would activate as well, because the the wormhole would be attracted to it, all though it would also be attracted to the other, there is nothing theoretically stoping more than one wormhole connecting to the same gate, except the DHDs.

The one reason that this would not work, is because we have to a assume that the DHDs will block any inccoming wormhole, and say to a gate that is trying to connect, "Back off! Get your own sandwhich!" or something along the lines of that, lol.

It would not be smart having more than one wormhole trying to connect to more than one gate on the same planet, there is always the possibility that two wormholes would connect to the same gate, this would be very dangerous.

Owen Macri

briguy213
June 27th, 2005, 08:56 AM
wow

_Owen_
June 27th, 2005, 10:55 PM
Double wow. What are we wowing at?

lol
nice animation in your signature! If you know how to make them can you pm me please?

Owen Macri

LiquidBlue
June 29th, 2005, 10:55 PM
I have read through this thread, and I have read some interesting and intriguing posts. I would like to add some thoughts that have not been mentioned. I will quote from previous posts to other threads.

On November 17, 2004, I posted the following on the "DHD Question" thread in the General Discussion forum:


The seven symbol gate address is an artifact of the movie and has been, in my opinion, treated rather inconsistently in the series. According to the movie the first 6 symbols establishes the location of the destination gate, and the seventh symbol determines the point of origin of the path of the wormhole.

Of course now we have the question--Why is the point of origin even necessary? The question is especially brought into view if we accept the theory that for most if not all of the Milkyway gates the point of origin symbol is the same, a generic point of origin symbol.

I believe one of the most readily acceptable reasons we can assign to necessity of entering a seventh symbol is that it serves to validate a gate address. The ancients created the stargates, and in an effort to make sure that some group that did not understand gate addresses did not become stranded on a foreign planet they added a seventh symbol. This greatly lengthens the odds that randomly dialing symbols will open a wormhole. The odds are longer than might be apparant at first glance because a person that does not understand gate addresses does not even know how many symbols are in an address, and by adding another symbol simply for validation, the number of symbols necessary to open a wormhole cannot be worked out simply by determing the number symbols necessay to locate the destination. This seems to be the problem the Air Force faced in the movie.

Personally I think that that in order to establish a wormhole with a DHD one must enter 7 symbols and then press the BRB. I also think that all of the PoO symbols are unique to each of the gates, but that all of the other symbols on the milky way gates are the same. Anything to suggest otherwise would be mistakes or production limits. Of course this is just my opinion (I just watched "New Ground" and the Bedrosian gate featured the SGC symbol rather prominately.)
It has been asked how the SG teams can so easily identify if the point of origin symbol on the gate. In other threads it has been pointed out that the point of origin symbol on diferent gates is often the same. I as stated above, I believe this is due simply to production restraints, and that the point of origin symbol is unique to each gate. In either case, the human mind is very good at identifying visual patterns. Identifying which symbol is not one of the general address symbols would be easy with continued gate travel experience.

I posted the following November 5, 2005 in the "Permutations" thread of the General Discussion forum.

Obviously the addresses mean different things in the movie and the the series. In the movie the two gates were on opposite sides of the universe and each gate had different symbols representing constilations as seen from each planet. In the series abydos is one of the planets closest to earth and the and the symbols on every gate in the Milky Way network are the same except for one which is the point of origin.

A couple of points-

*In the movie, the order of the first six symbols is important to the extent that the symbols must be presented properly paired up so that the appropriate lines are defined. It may be even more complicated, it is not really clear.

*In the series, the symbols are the same throughout the galaxy, this implies that they do not represent constelations as seen from the planet. If the symbols in the series do in fact still represent constelations as seen from earth, it is simply another indication that the Ancient had an affinity for earth and considered it in some ways the center or source of their civilization.

*The point of origin symbol for each gate is different. Since it is possible to move one gate from one location in the galaxy to another (and considering "The Fifth Race", perhaps even to other galaxies) and still have it work, the point of origin symbol must not be hardwired to represent a single location in space, but rather may be considered the equivalent of a serial number which distinguishes one gate from another.

*Since the relative locations of the gates continually changes and according to the series makes an unupdated Gate-DHD system gradually unable to connect to other gates, it seems reasonable to theorize that the gate symbols do not represent absolute locations in space, or locations that are hardwired. It is possible that the first 6 symbols represent an index to a galactic partitioning scheme. That is, as the star gradual drift to different relative locations, and as the DHD transfer updates to one another, a DHD will reprogram the stargate attached to it, so that the partitioning scheme represents a valid map of the galaxy. Thus a planet may in general retain a classical gate address.

*A DHD may then also redefine the locational meaning of a point of origin symbol when a stargate is moved to a different planet.

*Since the SGC did not have a DHD, the stargate they were using had a partioning scheme that was several thousand years out of date, thus they could not connect to distant planets. When Carter explains that corrections needed to be made to account for stellar drift, such calculations probably didn't result in different gate address, but rather in calculating and uploading an updated scheme to the stargate.

*The ancients may have adopted such a control mechanism to allow for manual dialing when a DHD becomes damaged or unavailable. It wouldn't strand people on a planet with no means to gate away unless the scheme within the gate itself had not been updated for several thousands of years. Powering a stargate for intra-galactic travel seems relative easy (ranging from sources such as lightning to truck batteries.)

Let me explain what I mean by a partitioning scheme:

Let us assume that we have 38 symbols that can be used as components of the 6 symbol destination designator. We can divide the galaxy into 38 volumes (Not necessarily of the same size) and assign each volume a symbol. We can then divide each of these volumes into 37 volumes and assign each of these subvolumes a symbol. (or 38 if we are allowed to repeat a symbol -- It has been established that each chevron must be associated with a single symbol, but it has not been established that each symbol can be associated with at most one chevron). We continue this for 6 levels of volume partitions.

With this scheme we can have as many gates as the symbols allow, because the partitioning scheme can be adjusted so that there is a single stargate in each volume. This also creates the means whereby locations can be calculated from addresses.

Depending on the ability of a stargate to initate a conection with another stargate, it may allow the ability to address individual stargates on a single planet.
*This does not necessarily mean that stargates on the same planet could connect to each other, there might be some minimum distance requirment.
*Nor does this mean that both gates could be active at the same time. There might be some sort of interfence that would prevent this beyond simple address colllision.
*However, nothing in the show definitively argues against this. We have not seen two gates on the same planet where both are served by a DHD participating in the correlative update program. Without both DHDs during correlative updates, the partition maps would not be updated to place each gate in a seperate volume, but both gates would be in the same volume, and the dominate gate would be the one to accept incoming wormholes.
*Actually let me amend my last statement. The evidence of "Watergate" is that there can one be one active gate at a time. This is true for both incoming and outgoing wormholes as the SGC could not dial out. One of the only ways that this could be due to a address collision is if the stargate initiating the wormhole must uniquely identify the volume of space in which it is. This information is not apparantly required by the receiving stargate, as no means has been shown in the show to identify the source of an incoming wormhole. (This might not be strictly true. The question remains why the atlantis gate did have the iris activated when the atlantis team arrived.) The information might be required by the initiating gate as some sort of sanity check. The gate might check whether there are any wormholes active within its assigned volume. If a wormhole is found, then it rejects the attempt to establish another wormhole, and returns an error.

_Owen_
July 3rd, 2005, 08:46 PM
In regards to the point of origin. The only reason that the symbols are the same is because the props staff didn't change them, they are supposed to be unique to each gate. As for why they are needed, they are needed so the first end of the wormhole has a general area to lock onto, the point is in the general area of the stargate, the stargate then tells the wormhole to direct itself there, and then the other end to the area represented by the six points dialed in as symbols.

I appoligize, if you said, this, I didn't have time to read your entire post, but I will get back to it, however from what I read, it is a very good post.

Owen Macri