PDA

View Full Version : "Earth Made" ZPMs



marka480
April 30th, 2005, 02:46 PM
Is the device out of “the fifth race” is it an earth made ZPM? We don’t posses the device any more since “the other side” but even so we still should have notes on it maybe enough to make another one. If it’s not a ZPM it could still be the means for returning to earth at will given it purpose in “the fifth race”.

_Owen_
April 30th, 2005, 03:06 PM
It was not a ZPM, it used liquid naquadah as a power source, a Zero Point Module uses vacum energy. Nobody except for O'Neill really understood how it worked, so I don't think that they could have reverse engineered another one.

However it is a viable power source, but the way O'Neill built it, he put safeguards on it so it could only be used once in each reality. If we could figure out how to make one without the safegurds, it would be very usefull, however, we can't, but it is good to think of as many options as we can.

Owen Macri

marka480
April 30th, 2005, 03:18 PM
ok then is simple go to the Alternate reality in which they gave it to bring it back. They already know how to reset it so the you go. they found that out in point of view or rather we found that out in point of view.

_Owen_
April 30th, 2005, 04:02 PM
It isn't that they can reset it, it "imprints" the reality in which it is used, in it so it can only be used in each reality at once, this may or may not have been intentional. They could try to find a relality where they still have thier device, and then take it back to thier reality. However they would not do this because they would have to send people to every reality untill they found one that still had thiers. With an infinite number of realities, it would be an almost unending search, and the chances of finding one would be very small.

Owen Macri

_Owen_
April 30th, 2005, 04:03 PM
However, if they could find one, it would be usefull, but only once.

Owen Macri

lethalfang
April 30th, 2005, 04:41 PM
Have as Asgard research team look at it. If it can be "imprinted," it can also be "unprinted."

Tok'Ra Hostess
April 30th, 2005, 05:51 PM
It was not a ZPM, it used liquid naquadah as a power source, a Zero Point Module uses vacum energy. Nobody except for O'Neill really understood how it worked, so I don't think that they could have reverse engineered another one.

However it is a viable power source, but the way O'Neill built it, he put safeguards on it so it could only be used once in each reality. If we could figure out how to make one without the safegurds, it would be very usefull, however, we can't, but it is good to think of as many options as we can.


Once in each reality? But it wasn't built for traversing realities; it was built for traversing the distance between the Milkyway and the Idan galaxies.(Where is Pegasus in regard to Ida, anyway?)

I agree with you, OM, that marka480 is on to something (no, actually, I'm kinda jealous; why didn't I think of that? ;) )Jack built the device entirely of materials found on base, and Sam and other scientists at the SGC and no doubt the Area 51 facility(including, perhaps, McKay?) have studied it.

Sam retains the knowledge of how to make one work; it should be a simple affair of building a new one and applying whatever principles the two Carters babbled on about in POV to make it work.

Right?

_Owen_
April 30th, 2005, 07:28 PM
Their probably was something that O'Neill added in that they couldn't figure out, otherwise they probably would have built one by now.

As for it being made of only materials found on the base, The ancients were good at improvising, look at Orin, he built a stargate with only stuff that you can find on Earth. He didn't use a spec of naquadah.

Owen Macri

_Owen_
April 30th, 2005, 07:37 PM
Also I know that it wasn't meant for inter-reality travel, that is exactly why it worked in the atlernate reality. O'Neill only wanted it to work once, however he didn't count on them taking it to another reality, so he didn't stick in safeguards either.

The idea about giving it to the Asgard is smart, however, at the time we wern't very good friends with the asgard, and now that we are, we don't have it anymore.

Owen Macri

_Owen_
April 30th, 2005, 07:39 PM
A lttile off-topic, but to Tok'ra Hostess, I like your signature, the story about the wolves.

Owen Macri

Jarnin
April 30th, 2005, 09:02 PM
It was not a ZPM, it used liquid naquadah as a power source, a Zero Point Module uses vacum energy. Nobody except for O'Neill really understood how it worked, so I don't think that they could have reverse engineered another one.
Look at it this way: It was about as close to a ZPM Jack could build with the components he had. The Liquid Naquadah was a component, not the power source. I mean, even your gasoline engine needs a battery to start :rolleyes:


However it is a viable power source, but the way O'Neill built it, he put safeguards on it so it could only be used once in each reality. If we could figure out how to make one without the safegurds, it would be very usefull, however, we can't, but it is good to think of as many options as we can.
Where do you come up with this information? The device worked once. The Carter twins got it to work again, but it is by no means a viable power source.
The device only worked once for us likely because of the components used (ie, off the shelf parts). It has nothing to do with safeguards that Jack didn't built in.
Also, the device was about as far away from viable as you can possibly get without the thing not working at all. It is not a viable form of power production. It's a technical curiosity at best.

We're a long long way from building our own ZPMs. I mean, the team regularly uses Naquada reactors, which are based on fission. After you get fission as advanced as you possibly can, you have fusion. Once you take fusion to it's theorectical limits, you have antimatter. After you take antimatter to it's limits, then you're in ZPM territory.
There's alot of development needed in other areas before we start building our own ZPMs. Lots of science we still don't understand.

PS: Owen, you only need to post once. If you have an addition, use the edit feature.

_Owen_
May 1st, 2005, 07:25 PM
Perhaps the device enhanced the power of the liquid naqudah.

Unfortunatly we don't know what kind of energy production the device used, however I still believe that it is a viable power source, it is the only device that we have seen, other than asgard technology, and the ZPM's that can supply power to an intergalactic wormhole. Not to mention it can be built with everything that we have acces to, liquid naquadah is a bit hard to come by, but we can still get it. About it being as far away from viable as possible, I don't agree with that, as I have said before, it is the only device that is capable of emiting that much power, other than technology that is asgard or ancient, even the Goa'uld don't have technology like that. I agree, it is a curiosity but it could also be a major step forward in energy production, if we could figure out how it works, with the knowledge and acces to technology that we have now compared to in season two, I believe that we could modify it to be at least the equivilent of a Mark 5 naquadah reactor, possibly more.

You said it yourself,
We're a long long way from building our own ZPMs.

The O'Neill device, maybe not so much.

I will edit my posts next time, I normally do that, however I was strapped for time, and it was easier for me to make a seprate quick reply, it doesn't hurt anyone.

Owen Macri

_Owen_
May 1st, 2005, 08:08 PM
I'm sorry I havn't seen the episode in a while, so I checked the transcript to see exactly what the Carters did to fix the device. Unfortunatley O'Neill cuts them off each time they start talking because they confuse him, but from what I got I figured out what happend.

The device created a modulated dampening field around the liquid naquadah, they don't go into furthur detail but I can assume that the dampening field increases the potential energy of the naquadah, so inside the dampening field the one mL of liquid naqudah would equal 1000 mL, this is probably not the actualy ratio of conversion, but it is an example, that is all that it was meant to be, after the potential energy yield has been increased the device can simply work like a nquadah reactor, so I was right it is a very powerful nquadah reactor.

Now the reason that the device didn't work anymore was because the modulation of the dampening field was "thrown out of whack" as one of the carters said, when energy was drawn from it and then it was shut of, this means that the modulation of the dampening field was changed to another modulation possibly increasing or decreasing the yield of the naqudah, however the device was only designed to work using the one modulation that was set when the device was created. So all that they needed to do was reset the modulation of the dampening field after each use, so not bringing it back from the alternate reality was a stupid move, because it was still an extremly large and viable power source, seeing as it used the power source from a staff weapon to power an 8 chevron lock.

Carter said that she found the modulation of the dampening field by anylizing the decay ratio of naquadah in thier regualr reactors. They didn't go into more detail on how they did this, but suffice it to say, they now know the modulation and could have used the device a million times over, simply replacing the liquid naquadah when it runs out. This makes the O'Neill device a far more practical source of energy for long distance gate travel than a ZPM, I don't know if it would power Atlantis but it would definetly get the team home. They really should have kept it and had no reason what so ever to leave it, Carter MUST have had some injury to the head, she would never make a move like that.

Owen Macri

P.S. To have the device power something larger such as Atlantis, all that they need to do is backwards engineer the device, to figure out exactly how it works. Then they can build another one which uses a dampening field with an either higher or lower modulation, whichever one increases the yield of the liguid naquadah, then they could hook it up to Atlantis. They would only need one power source, or two, depending on how many liquid naquadah cartridges they used, to power all of Atlantis, and still have tons of energy to spare. But then there would be no story.

Owen Macri

The Orion
February 7th, 2007, 04:36 PM
The ancient database in Atlantis is huge so im pretty sure somewhere in there there are the specs for the ZPMs and how to make them. Im sure with the asgards help they could make a makeshift one perhaps not as powerfull, just like O'niell did with the Replicator Disruptor.

cowpants
February 7th, 2007, 04:46 PM
Two word response:

Not flippin' likely.

Okay, that was three. No, the ZPM's are just way over our head. There's no way us nor the Asgard could make heads or tails out of it at present time. It will be a long time until we can make our own.

Bragi
February 7th, 2007, 04:51 PM
It'd be pretty pointless to give us the ability to make our own ZPMs now, wouldn't it?

You've gotta remember that the show is nothing without challenge. It's the same as everyone saying "why don't the Ancients just stop the Ori armies?" Because there's no point to the show if everything is that easy.

It just becomes fanboi masturbation at that point.

marty2006
February 7th, 2007, 04:55 PM
The ancients were around for millions of years and their primary source of power was a zpm how could we possibley even comprehend how to build one, cmon now be serious.

[SGC_ReplicÅtors]
February 7th, 2007, 05:38 PM
even a primitive version of it when oneil built one to go to the asgard homeworld when he ahd the info the ancients torrented into his head...hell the SGC didnt even know what dam thing was let alone no what it was for...all i no is they no how to check how much power is left and intrgrate it into ancients or tauri systems thats about it

Gelasius
February 7th, 2007, 05:53 PM
i'm sure they can, with the help of the asguard i think they can. will writers ever let them, not likely. with an unlimited supply of zmp's they can turn atlantis into what it should be and use zpm's for all of their ships as well...they have to have an achilles heal with all that tech and theirs is not having sufficient power to run atlantis.


Defiant

The Orion
February 7th, 2007, 06:16 PM
i'm sure they can, with the help of the asguard i think they can. will writers ever let them, not likely. with an unlimited supply of zmp's they can turn atlantis into what it should be and use zpm's for all of their ships as well...they have to have an achilles heal with all that tech and theirs is not having sufficient power to run atlantis.


Defiant

the "achilles heel" would be that they aren't as good as real zpm and are easily depleated. and they were able to replicate the Project Acturus experiment which does what zpms do on a larger scale so i think they would be able to build a zpm. weir also said there were weapon schematics in the database when are they going to try building them. besides with the asuran and wraith threat they need something.

Auralis
February 7th, 2007, 07:08 PM
Could leonardo da vinci build a microchip if given the complet specs and plans? no, he is missing the tools to actually do it.
Even if we have the full specs and plans, we still can't build a zpm, we don't have the tools.

Franklyn Blaze
February 7th, 2007, 07:29 PM
We could give one to the asgard for study after the ori are defeated.

Thor of The Asgard
February 7th, 2007, 10:14 PM
if theres anyone who can make something even remotly close to a zpm, thats the asgard... though i think nothing would match the ancients zmp...

and another thing, unrelated...
im getting really frustrated that everytime we meet ancients, they either die or leave...

PrimatesForever
February 8th, 2007, 12:07 AM
Well how convienant would it be if there was a problem and the solution was 'Hey....ask the glowing dude!'


That'd make for a really sucky show. lol

marty2006
February 8th, 2007, 12:28 AM
Right get this ok we cannot and will not be able to build zpms or mass produce them for god knows how long and if the asgard could build them then they would use them and we could ask them for some seeing the amount of favours they owe us however they cant because even they cant comprehend how to build them ok, and im sure if they thought they could reverse engineer one they would have asked us for one or found one themselves a long time ago.

marty2006
February 8th, 2007, 12:32 AM
if theres anyone who can make something even remotly close to a zpm, thats the asgard... though i think nothing would match the ancients zmp...

and another thing, unrelated...
im getting really frustrated that everytime we meet ancients, they either die or leave...

lol me too man what frustrates me even more is everytime we get a zpm something happens to it i no it wouldnt make for good tv if we could defend ourselves 24/7 and be totally safe in atlantis however were about to go into the shows fourth season and we are still worrying about power i feel they should focus more on other storylines

2ndgenerationalteran
February 8th, 2007, 12:37 AM
the biggest chance we had for getting the necessary technology for making zpms is probably in the ori galaxy right now on board that ori ship we sent back. from what i remember they left the device on the molecular synthesizer thing. being that it made the sangraal that had energy to destroy ascended beings, (which is similar to ZPM energy) its safe to assume it could have made a functional ZPM if assembled correctly

Athosian Death facilitator
February 8th, 2007, 12:40 AM
Could leonardo da vinci build a microchip if given the complet specs and plans? no, he is missing the tools to actually do it.
Even if we have the full specs and plans, we still can't build a zpm, we don't have the tools.


You know what you are probably right but if you have seen the Sg1 episode in season 10 with the bouty hunters you know that they manufactured a smaller scale Naquadah generator for the really cool gun carter used.
So really all they need to do is build some super duper Naquadah generators.
I mean some thing has to be powering the Daedalus class ship just make something more powerfull than that which would be proportional to a ZPM>


McKay could do it AND YOU could try to recreate the jumpers power systemand large scale it to power the life support for example and use the rest of the power for something else.

I'm a dreama huh.
ADF

belistner
February 8th, 2007, 12:43 AM
i think the asguard could easily build a zpm if they were given the plans from the ancient database.


Could leonardo da vinci build a microchip if given the complet specs and plans? no, he is missing the tools to actually do it.
Even if we have the full specs and plans, we still can't build a zpm, we don't have the tools.

leonado probably couldn't .
but as for us not having the tools well we have atlantis and the asguard what else could we possibly need.


the biggest chance we had for getting the necessary technology for making zpms is probably in the ori galaxy right now on board that ori ship we sent back. from what i remember they left the device on the molecular synthesizer thing. being that it made the sangraal that had energy to destroy ascended beings, (which is similar to ZPM energy) its safe to assume it could have made a functional ZPM if assembled correctly

wasn't there one of those devices on each of the worlds they traveled to before daniel got captured by adria .
i think they were on the third world when she caught up to them .

StevenCaldwell
February 8th, 2007, 12:51 AM
The ancients were around for millions of years and their primary source of power was a zpm how could we possibley even comprehend how to build one, cmon now be serious.

yeah but what gets me is, the Ancients had 3 ZPM's powering Atlantis and 5 outpost each with a ZPM, so how did they find that many, they must of manufactured some!

Athosian Death facilitator
February 8th, 2007, 01:33 AM
It was not a ZPM, it used liquid naquadah as a power source, a Zero Point Module uses vacum energy. Nobody except for O'Neill really understood how it worked, so I don't think that they could have reverse engineered another one.

However it is a viable power source, but the way O'Neill built it, he put safeguards on it so it could only be used once in each reality. If we could figure out how to make one without the safegurds, it would be very usefull, however, we can't, but it is good to think of as many options as we can.

Owen Macri

your right dude and i think the power source was a staff weapon power source.

Anonmatel
February 8th, 2007, 01:35 AM
The only thing that annoys me is that there is probably a ZPM construction facility somewhere inside Atlantis and we don't know it.
Of course we have no idea about the whole process of making ZPM's, but it would be silly to have them built somwhere offworld.

wise one
February 8th, 2007, 02:07 AM
well they seem to know how to get energy from different dimensions like in mckay and mrs millers and the road not taken

Betelgeuze
February 8th, 2007, 02:10 AM
the biggest chance we had for getting the necessary technology for making zpms is probably in the ori galaxy right now on board that ori ship we sent back. from what i remember they left the device on the molecular synthesizer thing. being that it made the sangraal that had energy to destroy ascended beings, (which is similar to ZPM energy) its safe to assume it could have made a functional ZPM if assembled correctly

That still won't help them build a ZPM, because it has to be operated by someone who knows how to make one. And the device most likely can only be used by an advanced human. I don't think an ordinary human can make a ZPM using this device, to actually sythesise something by putting it together molecule by molecule is beyond us.

Semmer
February 8th, 2007, 02:40 AM
Imo only thing preventing us from building a ZPM is that we don't know how to create an artificial region of subspace. In other words, we can't construct an universe. :mckay:

Maybe McKay's new math (as presented in Tao Of Rodney) could have helped us with that. I'm sure they'll grab into it in the future.

StevenCaldwell
February 8th, 2007, 03:01 AM
yeah but think about if the TBTP gaves up ZPM making abilities, the we need to more and atlantis is at full power, with the shield at full strength and the shield on the gate nothing could touch us! They are not gunna gives us that ability because it would be to easy, could easley just loor the Asurans to Atlantis and use the drones!!

The_New_Anubis
February 11th, 2007, 07:33 AM
Two word response:

Not flippin' likely.

Okay, that was three. No, the ZPM's are just way over our head. There's no way us nor the Asgard could make heads or tails out of it at present time. It will be a long time until we can make our own.uh the Asgards are WAY more advance then us and their not THAT much behind the Ancents :rolleyes:

crazylizzie
February 13th, 2007, 09:24 AM
um...this is probably answered on another thread but i coudlnt find it, but is the zpm, the zero point module, a sorta stargate version of what could be constructed if the zero point field theory was in fact true? of course, if thats the case, the theory also states that if the zero point field actually existed it would almost certainly have the potential to be an infinite source of energy (because, in theory it is self-regenerating on the scale of the entire universe/quantum size of course), which obviously is not the case in the series....anyway, rambling...was just wondering what the zero point module is actually supposed to be....

anyone with the wonderful knowledge can just pm me if this question is inappropriate for the thread. thanks. :)

Jimbo-DR
February 13th, 2007, 12:07 PM
uh the Asgards are WAY more advance then us and their not THAT much behind the Ancents :rolleyes:


Actually, they are.
Thor: "We have been studying it for as long as I can remember, and we have barely scratched the surface". The Ancients surpass the Asgard in every way that we've seen so far.

They had a way to go faster, hit harder, take more hits, and even their transporter system seems to be just as advanced, giving the scenes we saw in Quest Part II.