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LiquidAK
April 24th, 2005, 12:58 PM
What would happen if at exactly the same time to wormholes connected to the same gate. I don't know if its been addressed in an ep but if not lets here your theorys.

6thMonolith
April 24th, 2005, 04:07 PM
Probably nothing. The 'Gate system has tons of safeguards. If one gate connected before the other, though, its first come first serve for wormholes.

TechnoWraith
April 24th, 2005, 04:50 PM
Probably the same thing will happen as when you dial a phone number and the line is busy. The gate system probably has ways to deal with "busy signals." Most likely, the gate simply won't connect.

Freyrs
April 24th, 2005, 05:15 PM
Probally the gate safeguards kick in and both gates get disconnected. Or one supercedes the other. The ancients were good about those things assuming you used their dialing program. :P

_Owen_
April 24th, 2005, 06:00 PM
On of three things can happen.

1) Both gates will activate, and when they both try to connect they will sense another womrhole is trying to connect at the same time, and they will both deactivate.

2) the more pluasible explination. the gates attract the wormholes directed at them, without the gates the wormholes would jump around space however the gate has safegaurds in place to prevent this. The possibility is that both womrholes would "push" each other until one connected to the gate. The second gate trying to connect would not activate. Normally when the gate dials it senses if there is already a wormhole active and does not activate, in this case the second gate would, deactivate as soon as the first gate connected.

3)There is also the posibility that the wormhole would jump around space until it found another gate to connect to, anyone trying to come through would not be rematerialized and thier energy would be released into space. Normally I would say that this is the most plausible explination, but I believe that the ancients would have put safegaurds on to prevent this.

Owen Macri

Jarnin
April 24th, 2005, 11:32 PM
What would happen if at exactly the same time to wormholes connected to the same gate. I don't know if its been addressed in an ep but if not lets here your theorys.
Something similar did happen like this a couple times before, but it was one gate connecting to multiple destination gates (Solitudes,Threads).

It's quite possible that multiple wormholes can connect to the same destination gate, since we've seen the opposite happen.
I suppose in this case, people would just walk out of the gate at a slightly staggered interval so they don't materialize inside one another. It's the simplist safe-guard that wouldn't inconvience the travelers, unless they weren't friendly to one another, in which case that isn't the Stargate's fault ;)

_Owen_
April 25th, 2005, 04:38 AM
It is possible but I don't think so, the gate would deffinetly have safeguards to prevent this, there is no way that the gate can control when objects materialize so there is the possibility that they could materialize inside each other.

Owen Macri

captain_kirk999
April 25th, 2005, 08:46 AM
There was a post kind of like this, though about ALL the gates connecting from one source. A load of great theories were discussed there, but i'm not sure what would happen if only two gates would lock onto one address.

Death, multiple copies of the person that stepped through, being launche into a different dimension, ascension, a heck of stuff could happen

_Owen_
April 25th, 2005, 12:25 PM
It would deffinetly not be asencion, it is technically possible for more than one wormhole to connect to a stargate, however I strongly believe that the ancient would have put safegaurds on to prevent this. however if more than one wormhole were created be a stargate, it would be impossible to go through and come out on one planet, your matter would be dematerialized at the event horizon and your energy would be transmitted through every wormhole, unless there was someway that you could select a specific wormhole, and parts of you would come out on every planet that the gate was connected to, seeing as your imformation would be split and transmitted through the seprate wormholes as well.

Owen Macri

Jarnin
April 25th, 2005, 05:32 PM
It is possible but I don't think so, the gate would deffinetly have safeguards to prevent this, there is no way that the gate can control when objects materialize so there is the possibility that they could materialize inside each other.

Owen Macri
Do you have a reference from the show to back up your thesis?

The gate has to have a method to control when objects materialize, otherwise it would cause all kinds of problems. Did you ever notice, in any episode that has the teams traveling through the gate, that they always exit in the same order that they entered? Have you noticed that they walk out in staggered intervals? That is the gate making sure they don't all rematerialize combined into a pile of meaty goo.

_Owen_
April 25th, 2005, 07:49 PM
Yes, my reference is basically everything that we know about wormholes and the stargate, I don't have a specific website or book so I will explain this furthur.

The gate controls some aspects of traveling inerstellarly. The gate controls activating the wormhole, scanning the determined area of space were the gate supposedly is according to the last coorelative update, generating the event horizon, which inturn, scans whatever matter enters the stargate, converts the matter into energy, sends the energy and the information from the scan through the wormhole, and then of course rematerializing, I might have forgotten something but it isn't important regarding my point. One of the things that the gate does not control is the wormhole, energy and matter can travel through a wormhole at a constant speed, for that wormhole, the speed is not altered, it could be diffrent for a diffrent wormhole but not for the same one.

In the case of the Stargate, the gate itself only alows energy to travel through the wormhole, this is why it dematerializes matter, it also only allows matter to go through the gate one way, seeing as one event horizon can dematerialize, and one event horizon can rematerialize, the second event horizon on the recieving gate can also dematerialize but it will not send the energy that is converted from the persons matter to the other gate so that it can be rematerialized, that matter simply remains dematerialized.

Your example of the team coming out how they entered, i'm sorry to say, is flawed (no offence intended), the wormhole will send matter through at a constant speed therefore anyone enetering the gate before anyone else will arrive first. The stargate transmits and dematerializes matter in discrete units, so even if the team enetered the gate at the same time they would still exit as themselves because they are all still discrete, seprate units of matter.

(NOTE: I know that the gate doesn't transmit matter in discrete units, it transmits the energy, converted from the matter in discrete units, it was just easier for me to say "transmits and dematerializes matter in discrete units.")

(Please don't take offence to this Jarnin, if I came of as rude I didn't mean to and I appoligize.)

Owen Macri

Jarnin
April 25th, 2005, 10:37 PM
Yes, my reference is basically everything that we know about wormholes and the stargate, I don't have a specific website or book so I will explain this furthur.
Try references from episodes where the characters discuss what you're talking about. You can find alot of the transcripts on Gateworld and other fan sites for direct quotes.


In the case of the Stargate, the gate itself only alows energy to travel through the wormhole, this is why it dematerializes matter, it also only allows matter to go through the gate one way, seeing as one event horizon can dematerialize, and one event horizon can rematerialize, the second event horizon on the recieving gate can also dematerialize but it will not send the energy that is converted from the persons matter to the other gate so that it can be rematerialized, that matter simply remains dematerialized.
Do you see the flaw in your logic?


Your example of the team coming out how they entered, i'm sorry to say, is flawed (no offence intended), the wormhole will send matter through at a constant speed therefore anyone enetering the gate before anyone else will arrive first.
You contradict yourself here.


The stargate transmits and dematerializes matter in discrete units, so even if the team enetered the gate at the same time they would still exit as themselves because they are all still discrete, seprate units of matter.
Technobabble. The gate transmits a matter stream, which is continuous. Discrete packets would not be continuous.


(Please don't take offence to this Jarnin, if I came of as rude I didn't mean to and I appoligize.)

Owen Macri
I don't think you're rude. I think you need to reference the show to back up your hypothesis, otherwise everything you say is conjecture and won't be taken seriously.

Here's some places you can reference:
StargateWIKI Transcripts (http://wiki.stargate-sg1-solutions.com/index.php/Transcripts)

I'd link to Gateworld, but I think you know how to get there :D

_Owen_
April 26th, 2005, 01:46 PM
I will try to find something in an epsiode, however scientific knowledge at current is proof enough.

No i'm sorry I don't see the flaw in my logic could you please explain it.

I do not contradict myself, if someone walks through the gate before some one else the first person will arrive first because the speed of the wormhole is constant. Like two people in the same cars drag raced down a highway, from start to finish they could only go at one speed, one guy gets a head start, he will surely arrive first, if he manages to go straight there without any problems.

The technobabble comment made me laugh, thank you for that. A natural wormhole will transmit a matter stream but the matter stream will not be constant unless matter is constantly put into the wormhole. However the artificial wormholes created by the gates have the potntial to transmit matter but only transmit energy because any matter that is passed through the event horizon (the only way to get in the wormhole from an end) is dematerialized, de-material-ized, it is converted into energy. The wormhole itself is often called a matter stream, which is a misnomer, because the artificial wormholes created by the gate, like I said before only transmit energy. The technobabble actually means something.

Thank you for not thinking I am rude, I am just cautious when contradicting people, there have been incidences where people have given me negative repuation with no explination for no reason that I can disccern on a post that was not in any way meant to offend them.

I will try to find some references. I have one



GRODIN: The Stargate transmits matter in discrete units. The front half of the ship cannot re-materialize until the whole ship has crossed into the event horizon. The Stargate is essentially waiting for the contiguous components, meaning the jumper and everyone inside, to enter completely before it can transport them.

_Owen_
April 26th, 2005, 01:48 PM
I personaly do not consider what they say in the show or what happens in the show a reference unless it can be backed up by scientific fact, unless of course we are talking about something soley to do with the show, however if it's good enough for you...

Owen Macri

fraG_fesT
May 15th, 2005, 03:01 AM
the one that has the dhd closest to it will connect - i think.

_Owen_
May 15th, 2005, 03:23 AM
I don't see any evidence to support this theory. However it is highly unlikley that two wormholes would reach a single gate at the exact same time.

The gates would either activate for a second then shut down or accept both wormholes, recieving incoming from both gates. This would be dangerous because you and another person could materialize in the same space.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 15th, 2005, 04:24 AM
What would happen if at exactly the same time to wormholes connected to the same gate. I don't know if its been addressed in an ep but if not lets here your theorys.

Actually, no two wormholes would ever connect to the same gate, at the exact same time. The odds of that happening are astronomically huge, to the point of being completely unreasonable. We are talking the exact same time down to less than micro-seconds. Which ever wormhole reached the gate first, even if only 1/100th of a nano-second earlier, it would be the only one to make a lock. The other wormhole simply wouldn't activate. The people at that gate would have to wait, and redial the address again, until they could establish a lock themselves. A gate can never recieve more than one wormhole, but a gate can send out a wormhole to multiple gate addresses. The only reason a stargate makes an allowance for multiple gates is for energy transmissions. If a person were to try going through the gate in its multiple lock mode... well, I wouldn't try it. :p Think about it... the wormhole would want to send you to each and every stargate... there is only so much of you to go around...!!! :D An energy based signal on the otherhand doesn't have to arrive as a discrete package. Nor do liquids. (That is why they could send food to that prison planet) Energy, and liquids follow a similiar pattern. Neither are distinct units of something, rather a continous stream. A continous stream, wether it be energy or some liquid pumped through the gate, could be evenly dispersed to all the gates without any loss of integrity. A brick couldn't... you'd just get little pieces of brick coming through each gate, instead of one whole brick... ugh..! (what if that were you..?? "Oh, look...there goes a toe..!" :rolleyes: ) Or more likely you'd just have your body lost in the wormhole, and your atoms scattered all over the galaxy... :eek:

That is why they altered the Dakara gate, so the energy wave could be transmitted to all the stargates at the same time. It would be like a bunch of cars starting on the same road, but then dividing up as multiple forks came up in the road. If the cars tried to do the opposite, they'd all crash in a messy pile up. That is why you can't connect multiple stargates to one stargate. Think of how a waterhose can be divided into two hoses that will pump out water instead of one. (you need a divider first, but you get the idea...) On the other hand, it is much more difficult to connect two seperate hoses together into one waterhose, because the water pressure would become too strong for the one hose to handle... messy pile-up... :(

That analogy pretty much fits exactly... Also, notice that when your turning one waterhose into two... you loose water pressure, because the stream is being divided. That means that whatever signal you send through a multi-mode wormhole is going to be somewhat diluted when it reaches the other side. In the reverse, connecting two waterhoses into one hose, you get too much water pressure and the water comes flying out much too fast. If there is too much pressure, the hose will simply burst. That would be bad... :(

_Owen_
May 15th, 2005, 11:40 AM
I agree with you, the chances of that actually happening are huge, sorry I didn't read the last half of the post because I haven't seen Reckoning yet, but when I see it I will.

If both wormholes did somehow, manage by, an amazing fluke to connect to the same gate they would probably just exit as normal, unless someone else entered at the exact same time that you did, now this is really pushing your luck, it would be almost impossible for this to happen, but if they did your molecules would simply reamterialize inside his and his would materialize inside yours, you would both probably die, so thats not good.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 16th, 2005, 01:58 AM
I agree with you, the chances of that actually happening are huge, sorry I didn't read the last half of the post because I haven't seen Reckoning yet, but when I see it I will.

If both wormholes did somehow, manage by, an amazing fluke to connect to the same gate they would probably just exit as normal, unless someone else entered at the exact same time that you did, now this is really pushing your luck, it would be almost impossible for this to happen, but if they did your molecules would simply reamterialize inside his and his would materialize inside yours, you would both probably die, so thats not good.

Owen Macri

There is also the chance that with all the extra power, that the travellers would be thrown through the gate at a very high velocity... and that wouldn't be good either. If the force were strong enough, they could end up as goo on the wall... :( Either, way... it just isn't a good idea to try. :D

:eek:

_Owen_
May 16th, 2005, 12:55 PM
I didn't even think of that, nice work, that might be a good way to turn the stargate into a weapon, you could shoot through it and the bullets would come out at super high speeds. All of the extra energy being put into the gate by the sending gate to power the recieving event horizon would have to go somewhere, being released as an addition in kinetic energy to the person seems logical, otherwise the stargate would blow up like in redemption.

Owen Macri

solar wind
May 16th, 2005, 02:23 PM
I don't know how to quote just a section of a post or I would quote what Owen Macri said about the wormhole being like drag racing. I agree, the gate doesn't control the wormhole so everyone should arrive in the order they entered.
But the time the wormhole was lost because the sending gate was destroyed, while Teal'c hadn't been rematerialized yet, the point of destination gate (this time ours on earth) still had the imprint of Teal'c in it's memory. So maybe in certain situations the gate can control the order in which objects are rematerialized.
But still this is quite different because the wormhole is still active and so what's keeping it from sending it's occupents right out the event horizon, since as we've already established, the stargate doesn't control the wormhole. :rolleyes:

_Owen_
May 16th, 2005, 02:53 PM
First, you can quote a section by highliging it, copying it with either "control + c" or right click and select copy. Then go to your quick reply box and put in the tag [Quote =(name of person)] (do not put spaces in the tag) then after the tag paste the text using either "control + v" or right click and select paste, then after your text put the tag [ /Quote] (once again with no spaces in the tag).

The reason the imprint was still in the gate was because the imprint is sent before the energy so that when the energy gets there it can easily be materialized, if the information was sent after the energy, the energy would simply be released through the event horizon as pure energy. If it went at the same time some energy would be released through the event horizon because the gate would likley need to process the information first. In the situation in "48 Hours" the gate deactivated before the energy got there but after the information was recieved by the gate.

Owen Macri

solar wind
May 16th, 2005, 04:07 PM
The reason the imprint was still in the gate was because the imprint is sent before the energy so that when the energy gets there it can easily be materialized, if the information was sent after the energy, the energy would simply be released through the event horizon as pure energy. If it went at the same time some energy would be released through the event horizon because the gate would likley need to process the information first. In the situation in "48 Hours" the gate deactivated before the energy got there but after the information was recieved by the gate.

I think it worked, thanks!
And what you say makes alot of sense. The wormhole would have to be cut off in order to keep anything or anyone from coming through. But that's not a good exercise to be playing with anyway.

_Owen_
May 16th, 2005, 04:22 PM
No problem.


But that's not a good exercise to be playing with anyway.

lol, I agree.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 16th, 2005, 04:57 PM
This is what I think. they say on the show that matter can only travel one way through a wormhole, but they wouldn't know that because the gate converts all matter to energy I believe that the gate just has a safe guard so that there is no collisions or anything in transit that is why things can only go though an "outgoing" wormholes

Seastallion
May 16th, 2005, 05:55 PM
I didn't even think of that, nice work, that might be a good way to turn the stargate into a weapon, you could shoot through it and the bullets would come out at super high speeds. All of the extra energy being put into the gate by the sending gate to power the recieving event horizon would have to go somewhere, being released as an addition in kinetic energy to the person seems logical, otherwise the stargate would blow up like in redemption.

Owen Macri

Yeah, that was basically what happened in that one episode (can't remember the name...). They got thrown through the gate, because of some explosion even though that wasn't the velocity they entered at. I think it was the same episode where they found the Antartic gate. *wince* I really thought that looked like it would've had to hurt if it were real... ouch..! Daniel said he was thrown so hard he didn't even see the floor coming... and then BAM!! Then he was knocked out cold... :eek:

_Owen_
May 16th, 2005, 07:43 PM
Technically, a wormhole can transfer matter and energy two ways. It does not allow matter to pass through the wormhole at all, the event horizon converts it into energy, objects can only travel one way, energy can pass through the wormhole both ways because it doesn't have to be de and rematerialize.

Sorry if I confused you, if you don't understand just ask.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 16th, 2005, 08:00 PM
Technically, a wormhole can transfer matter and energy two ways. It does not allow matter to pass through the wormhole at all, the event horizon converts it into energy, objects can only travel one way, energy can pass through the wormhole both ways because it doesn't have to be de and rematerialize.

Sorry if I confused you, if you don't understand just ask.

Owen Macri
but i thought that the gate converts matter to energy not the wormhole because the event horizon of the wormhole is like the door way to a different dimension and if the gate is converting the matter to energy then in theory it could do it on both ends of a worm hole, but it doesn't as a safeguard or something. That just my little theory

Seastallion
May 17th, 2005, 07:04 AM
but i thought that the gate converts matter to energy not the wormhole because the event horizon of the wormhole is like the door way to a different dimension and if the gate is converting the matter to energy then in theory it could do it on both ends of a worm hole, but it doesn't as a safeguard or something. That just my little theory

I suppose it would be possible to use, say, an Asgard beaming technology to send people both ways. However, the gate itself would prevent just walking through. For one thing, it is set up one way. It could very well be that having people going both ways would interfere with the way in which the stargate operates. It uses crystals within to store the pattern of an individual, then transmit it to the other gate via the wormhole where the person is reconstituted. However, the gate can only do one or the other at a time. If it is recieving a pattern, it can't store a new pattern on its side to transmit back. If it the gate is sending a pattern, it can't simultaneously recieve a pattern too. So you see, it it is a hardware problem, not necessarily a transmission problem. We have seen an energy-based life-form come back through an out-going wormhole. (It was the episode where they sent the MALP to one of the addresses recieved from the Ancients repository, and then that energy thing took over Carter's body, placing her in the base's computer main-frame.) So, it is technically possible, it is just outside the Stargate's normal mode of operation. I imagine the Ancients might have built it that way as a security feature. :)

Col. Newman
May 17th, 2005, 12:34 PM
However, the gate can only do one or the other at a time. If it is recieving a pattern, it can't store a new pattern on its side to transmit back. If it the gate is sending a pattern, it can't simultaneously recieve a pattern too. So you see, it is a hardware problem, not necessarily a transmission problem. well i think it would have been easy for the ancients to have a two way star gate system. All the gates would need is 2 Transmitter/receivers.


I imagine the Ancients might have built it that way as a security feature.
I just think they choose not to build it Two Way. I like your idea that it is a built in security feature. And remember rings can transmit and receive at the same time

_Owen_
May 17th, 2005, 01:39 PM
It is very possible to have a two way stargate, the technology would just be slightly altered, it would be no problem. Yes, the ancients did just choose to build the gates this way. The rings use diffrent technology, they convert matter into energy as well but they are based on diffrent technology, they are only for short range transports, they don't need a wormhole, and they were designed to transmit both ways.

Owen Macri

kesterr
June 16th, 2005, 10:58 AM
yes the Ancients would most definately be able to do this, but then you get the problem what happenes when 2 people go in form different ends of the wormhole.

any thoughts on what would happen

6thMonolith
June 16th, 2005, 11:15 AM
They'd probably end up where they were trying to go in the first place. If the Ancients made this sort of thing, they probably would have thought of this.

_Owen_
June 16th, 2005, 11:58 AM
If one person exited right when the other was entering, it would not be pretty for one person. The person entering would act like an iris for the person exiting.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
June 16th, 2005, 01:08 PM
If one person exited right when the other was entering, it would not be pretty for one person. The person entering would act like an iris for the person exiting.

Owen Macri
that would be very easy to fix, just have a delay on one end if two people enter at the same time

_Owen_
June 16th, 2005, 01:16 PM
It is possible however you would need more than one buffer for the information, and a battery of some sort to store the energy.

Owen Macri

6thMonolith
June 16th, 2005, 04:27 PM
I'm pretty sure the crystals could take care of that.(48 Hours)

_Owen_
June 16th, 2005, 07:31 PM
The crystals are only programmed to hold one patern at a time, if someone entered at the same time that some was trying to exit, there would be too much information, and it would get confused, and the gate wouldn't know what to do with it, it is likley you would end up with a big ugly mass of matter, that physically resmbled neither of the two people.

The buffer is only programmed to store and send information in one direction at a time, with two it wouldn't work.

Take three glasses, the same size, one is filled with water, one is filled with some kind of red juice. The Water is the person trying to exit, the red juice is the person entering. The third glass is the buffer, pour in both the water and the juice, now take two other glasses, one is Earth, and one is another planet, pour the Water/Juice combination half into one glass and half into the other, instead of getting one half glass of water and one half glass of juice, like you started with, you end up with two half glasses of some pink dilluted juiicey water.

Owen Macri

6thMonolith
June 16th, 2005, 07:36 PM
The crystals are only programmed to hold one patern at a time, if someone entered at the same time that some was trying to exit, there would be too much information, and it would get confused, and the gate wouldn't know what to do with it, it is likley you would end up with a big ugly mass of matter, that physically resmbled neither of the two people.

The buffer is only programmed to store and send information in one direction at a time, with two it wouldn't work.

Take three glasses, the same size, one is filled with water, one is filled with some kind of red juice. The Water is the person trying to exit, the red juice is the person entering. The third glass is the buffer, pour in both the water and the juice, now take two other glasses, one is Earth, and one is another planet, pour the Water/Juice combination half into one glass and half into the other, instead of getting one half glass of water and one half glass of juice, like you started with, you end up with two half glasses of some pink dilluted juiicey water.

Owen Macri

Well, the 'gate is made to send things only one way. If you could send things both ways, there'd probably be a solution to this, e.g., more crystals.

Col. Newman
June 16th, 2005, 07:45 PM
The crystals are only programmed to hold one patern at a time, if someone entered at the same time that some was trying to exit, there would be too much information, and it would get confused, and the gate wouldn't know what to do with it, it is likley you would end up with a big ugly mass of matter, that physically resmbled neither of the two people.

The buffer is only programmed to store and send information in one direction at a time, with two it wouldn't work.

Take three glasses, the same size, one is filled with water, one is filled with some kind of red juice. The Water is the person trying to exit, the red juice is the person entering. The third glass is the buffer, pour in both the water and the juice, now take two other glasses, one is Earth, and one is another planet, pour the Water/Juice combination half into one glass and half into the other, instead of getting one half glass of water and one half glass of juice, like you started with, you end up with two half glasses of some pink dilluted juiicey water.

Owen Macri
um i seriously doubt the ancients of all people would have a problem with computer storage space, im mean come on the idea is laughable

_Owen_
June 16th, 2005, 07:48 PM
I am not saying that it could not be accomplished, I am saying that it its' current configuration would not be able to do it.

It is not so much a problem with storage space, it is a problem with partitioning the data, with more than one crystal, or even a crystal that is partitioned into two seprate storage spaces. it could be accomplished. But not as it is currently set up.

Owen Macri

6thMonolith
June 16th, 2005, 07:54 PM
The 'gate right now is not set up to have matter pass both ways, so there is no real problem, eh?

Col. Newman
June 16th, 2005, 07:59 PM
I thought we were talking about how it would be possible for the ancients to make a 2 way gate, of course i know that the curent gates can't go both ways

Col. Newman
June 16th, 2005, 08:11 PM
i will have to continue this discussion tomorrow i got to go take a shower and then go to bed, i still have one more week of drivers ed. I have to be there at 8 a.m., so see you tomorrow

_Owen_
June 16th, 2005, 08:15 PM
Lol, that is ok, there seem to be a lot of misunderstandings going around today, goodnight!

Owen Macri