The Four... err... Two Races?

[nukechuck]

Does it bother anyone else besides me that so far 3 of the races out of the four are practically human?

The three Human like races

The Nox- Look extremely like humans

The Asgard- Now look nothing like humans because of thier genetic manipulations but used to very very long ago as seen and heard in Revelations and Fragile Ballance.

The Ancients- Are highly evolved humans that curiously predate humans.

Then there's the Furlings that have yet to be seen.

What were the 4 races Nazi's of the stars or something?

There Needs To be more Alien Biodiversity!

Oh well SG-1 Still kicks a** either way.

[Elwe Singollo]

I think because those races evolved from our race, or the race of the human.

[ShadowMaat]

I can maybe see a genetic link between humans and Ancients, but humans and everyone else? That's a bit much to swallow.

They all look humanoid because, I've been told, people find it easier to understand and sympathize with humanoids rather than creatures of other shapes. Or, if they're supposed to get scary, humans need to find something about them to make them scary so we get humanoid aliens once again. *sigh*

[Jprime]

That makes sense, because (apart from acceptions like Tok'ra or the crystal thingy and Anubis) only the goa'uld are non-humanoid, and they're bad guys. Apart from being creepy looking, the whole body snatcher thing has always been a big pet peeve of humans...

[Elwe Singollo]

Yes, very.. 'insert word' ish... haha... :o

[Torley]

I can't help but remember a tie to Star Trek: TNG... that episode "The Chase" with that VERY humanoid being explaining how they seeded the galaxy... and also note how, yes, nonhumanoid races generally tend to be a real threat. Notice the correlation between scales/uncuteness/more or less than two arms and legs and the hostility reactions towards humans. Yikes.

[GuyFromOH]

Possible Spoiler for those who have not seen season 6....
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Does it bother anyone else besides me that so far 3 of the races out of the four are practically human?

The three Human like races

The Nox- Look extremely like humans

The Asgard- Now look nothing like humans because of thier genetic manipulations but used to very very long ago as seen and heard in Revelations and Fragile Ballance.

The Ancients- Are highly evolved humans that curiously predate humans.

Then there's the Furlings that have yet to be seen.

What were the 4 races Nazi's of the stars or something?

There Needs To be more Alien Biodiversity!




If you recall, they found Ayiana frozen in Antarctica ("Frozen" episode: 6x04) and as it turns out, they concluded that the evolution of humankind is happening for the second time. The Ancients predate humans by millions of years, and humans are redoing what they have already done, so there could be lots of races out there that are results of crossbreeding of pre-ascended ancients and other races.

Also, from what I recall from a similar discussion I read many years ago, There are certain biological traits that indicate the level of advancement of any species. For example, bi-lateral symmetry indicates advanced evolution, ie, a starfish or jellyfish with radial-symmetry can't be that advanced. Also, the development of a brain vs. a neuron-ganglia is another example. It seems to make sense that an advanced race would need a large brain protected by a skull, An advanced race would be vertibrate. It would also have fingers to allow it to manipulate the world around it, arms help with reach, it would need legs to run to escape prey, etc. The more you compare the evolutionary development of humans to that of less-advanced species, it makes sense that there would be great similarities between humans and other advanced species of other planets.

This concept is explained in better detail in Arthur C. Clarke's "2061", where they notice that the sharks that evolved on Europa look just like the ones on earth, that is when they realize that there is an "optimal shape" dependant on the function and environment of a species.

The Goa'uld symbiotes would be an exception, but since they are parasitical in nature, they are able to utilize the physical development of other races. The Unas was another humanoid race, but because of their own physical limitations, the Goa'uld picked humans instead.

Also, there is a planetary-influence on evolutionary development, the size/mass of a planet determines it's gravitational pull. A small planet or planetoid would lack the gravity necessary to maintain an atmosphere, reducing the natural green-house effect, inhibiting or preventing development of an advanced race. A larger planetary body would have a very high atmospheric pressure, reducing the possible size and composition of any life. Altough these factors wouldn't prevent life from developing, they would certainly reduce the possibility of an intellegent self-aware space-fearing species emerging.

Almost all the planets that SG-1 has visited were once visited by the Ancients, which is why almost all of them seem to have the same atmospheric and gravitational attributes. (I don't recall if they mentioned that the Ancients or the Goa'uld also terraformed the majority of these planets)

Since most of the planets they have visited are so similar to earth, evolution of an advanced species would also be very similar. The Asgard are from a different galaxy, but they have also undergone innumerable changes due to their inability to reproduce, so who knows what the story is there.

-That was very long, and I just remembered that I am not Darwin, so please forgive my ranting

[Torley]

That's pretty good evidence. Thanks GuyFromOH; that was a welcome rant. I haven't seen all the episodes nor have I had the time to unfortunately, but that sounds solid to me and makes sense. I like how Stargate uses pre-existing world history and mythology and is set in the present day, and uses that as what could be called a "base of the pyramid" for its own unique mythology arcs.

[GuyFromOH]

That's pretty good evidence. Thanks GuyFromOH; that was a welcome rant. I haven't seen all the episodes nor have I had the time to unfortunately, but that sounds solid to me and makes sense. I like how Stargate uses pre-existing world history and mythology and is set in the present day, and uses that as what could be called a "base of the pyramid" for its own unique mythology arcs.


Speaking of mythology, are there any students of the classics here that can validate or speak to the historical or mythological truth behind SG? They do a great job of tieing all of earth's mythology to the Goa'uld and Asgard, etc. but how much have they made up, and how much did they get from mythology?

On Amazon, they have a book called "Stepping Through The Stargate: Science, Archaeology And The Military In Stargate Sg1" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1932100326/ref=cm_bg_d/002-7587143-2804869?v=glance
I'm sure this book covers all this stuff, so does anyone out there have it? Amazon also recommends a book "A Dictionary of World Mythology" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0192177478/ref=cm_bg_d/002-7587143-2804869?v=glance but since I am a college student, I am poor and cannot afford it.

[Torley]

Hm, I haven't had the time nor the resources to get in that much depth but for right now, I am checking out that Encylopedia Mythica that is linked to from Gateworld. That "Stepping Through The Stargate" book, although I haven't read it, seems kind of skimpy... 240 pages and I hope that's not large text. Of course I shouldn't judge but -- it's not even out yet BTW. Some companion books to TV shows are really in-depth and insightful, while others are *meh*.

There is this HUGE, luxurious book... I forget the name, but actress Amber Tamblyn of Joan of Arcadia fame recommended it on a talk show I saw awhile back... it deals mainly with world religions but since that's where a lot of mythology is intertwined, I felt it was relevant. Anyone know what I'm talking about or remember the name?

[GuyFromOH]

Hm, I haven't had the time nor the resources to get in that much depth but for right now, I am checking out that Encylopedia Mythica that is linked to from Gateworld. That "Stepping Through The Stargate" book, although I haven't read it, seems kind of skimpy... 240 pages and I hope that's not large text. Of course I shouldn't judge but -- it's not even out yet BTW. Some companion books to TV shows are really in-depth and insightful, while others are *meh*.

There is this HUGE, luxurious book... I forget the name, but actress Amber Tamblyn of Joan of Arcadia fame recommended it on a talk show I saw awhile back... it deals mainly with world religions but since that's where a lot of mythology is intertwined, I felt it was relevant. Anyone know what I'm talking about or remember the name?

Should we start a thread about "real mythology" vs. "StarGate mythology"

[Jprime]

Has anybody read the book "Natures Destiny"? It has loads of evidence proving that the universe is engineered specifically to produce human life.

It sounds amazingly hypocritical at first, but after one begins to read the data it makes a great deal of sense.

[Torley]

Should we start a thread about "real mythology" vs. "StarGate mythology"

Sure, that might be a good idea! You mean it's never been done on here before :)?

[Mobiac]

Another theory that could explain the Hominid shape of Pre-Ancients, Asguards, Nox, and Humans. It could be possible that the ancestors of the Pre-Ancients faced a global crisis. They could have put into motion a number of genetic arks. Much like our scientist have thought of. Although the Ancient Ancestors could have conceived of some way for the DNA to adapt to the new worlds environment's. Thus the greater possibility that life would survive on the new worlds. Meanwhile the Ancient Ancestors survive the crisis, and evolve into Pre-Ancients. Across space the genetic ships have landed, and seeded the worlds giving life and evolution a head start. Somewhere between Pre-Ancients and Ancients civilization begins inter-stellar space travel, and colonization. They come up with gate travel later on as a faster means to reach other colonies. Meantime the long forgotten seeded worlds have evolved at a quick pace. Slowly the Ancients come across the seeded civilizations (Asguard, Nox, Furlings(?), pre-humans), though the Ancients probably did not recognize their "cousins." Later on the Ancients, Asguards, Nox, and Furlings because of their advancement form an alliance. As for Earth we know the Pre-Ancients and Ancients as well as the other races have influenced life in one way or the other.

[aAnubiSs]

I think because those races evolved from our race, or the race of the human.

Acctually it would be the other way around. We evolved from them.

[Torley]

I think another reason hindering human development (despite overthrowing oppression of the Goa'uld, however humans did it thousands of years ago in the mythology of the show) is the constant in-fighting and apathy and other things like that, that we have a LONG way to get over in the real-world... not to mention big business interests that puts a damper on altruistic technological progress. The Kelownans and their ilk are analogous to this too with their tense, steaming situation with rival nations.

In the world today, humans constantly set themselves back by civil war and talking a lot but doing a little about the very real problems and challenges that face us on this adverse path. If the Goa'uld did decide to come back to Earth, we'd be easy pickings because we're already so divided. There is little evidence that would show the Asgard are internally divided, for example, except for a few rogues like Loki. The Nox are peace-lovers and the Ancients seem to be that way too in a passive way ;) I don't know about the Furlings; maybe they're the odd ones out . . .

[GuyFromOH]

I think another reason hindering human development (despite overthrowing oppression of the Goa'uld, however humans did it thousands of years ago in the mythology of the show) is the constant in-fighting and apathy and other things like that, that we have a LONG way to get over in the real-world... not to mention big business interests that puts a damper on altruistic technological progress. The Kelownans and their ilk are analogous to this too with their tense, steaming situation with rival nations.

In the world today, humans constantly set themselves back by civil war and talking a lot but doing a little about the very real problems and challenges that face us on this adverse path. If the Goa'uld did decide to come back to Earth, we'd be easy pickings because we're already so divided. There is little evidence that would show the Asgard are internally divided, for example, except for a few rogues like Loki. The Nox are peace-lovers and the Ancients seem to be that way too in a passive way ;) I don't know about the Furlings; maybe they're the odd ones out . . .

As sad as it is, war seems to be the biggest influence on making us advance technologically.

[escyos]

the furlings are lizard people.....i think....i have been awake for 21 hours and have had auditory and visual hallucinations in the past few hours though

[DigiFluid]

You've got it backward: they don't all look human, we look like them.

[s09119]

Does it bother anyone else besides me that so far 3 of the races out of the four are practically human?

The three Human like races

The Nox- Look extremely like humans

The Asgard- Now look nothing like humans because of thier genetic manipulations but used to very very long ago as seen and heard in Revelations and Fragile Ballance.

The Ancients- Are highly evolved humans that curiously predate humans.

Then there's the Furlings that have yet to be seen.

What were the 4 races Nazi's of the stars or something?

There Needs To be more Alien Biodiversity!

Oh well SG-1 Still kicks a** either way.

We evolved from the Ancients so of course we look like them. The Nox are masters of illusion so it's entirely possible that they simply choose to hide their true form. As for the Asgard... no answer there.

[koroush47]

*spoilers*
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I don't get one thing... if the Asgard are so technologically advanced... Why couldn't they prevent their extinction? I mean think about it... They could do SOOO many things.

[pkprd869]

*spoilers*

I don't get one thing... if the Asgard are so technologically advanced... Why couldn't they prevent their extinction? I mean think about it... They could do SOOO many things.

I think in "Fragile Balance" the Asgard mention they are making copies of copies of cloned bodies. The copies are to the point they are not able to sustain life very well.

[wkw427]

I think in "Fragile Balance" the Asgard mention they are making copies of copies of cloned bodies. The copies are to the point they are not able to sustain life very well.

Stupidest thing ever

[pkprd869]

Stupidest thing ever

Are you calling me stupid? Or are you calling the cloning technique and the episode stupid?

[Alteran of Atlantis]

Does it bother anyone else besides me that so far 3 of the races out of the four are practically human?

The three Human like races

The Nox- Look extremely like humans

The Asgard- Now look nothing like humans because of thier genetic manipulations but used to very very long ago as seen and heard in Revelations and Fragile Ballance.

The Ancients- Are highly evolved humans that curiously predate humans.

Then there's the Furlings that have yet to be seen.

What were the 4 races Nazi's of the stars or something?

There Needs To be more Alien Biodiversity!

Oh well SG-1 Still kicks a** either way.

Doesn't really bother me. The Ancients have an explanation as to why they look so much like us, because they're our ancestors. I don't know about the Nox, that's a mystery. But I think the Asgard were supposed to look more like they Greys. They don't really look human. And the Furlings...well, we'll never know.

[Puddle-Jumper]

-That was very long, and I just remembered that I am not Darwin, so please forgive my ranting

hahaha

[Alteran of Atlantis]

*spoilers*
*spoilers*
*spoilers*
*spoilers*
*spoilers*
*spoilers*




I don't get one thing... if the Asgard are so technologically advanced... Why couldn't they prevent their extinction? I mean think about it... They could do SOOO many things.

Well they probably could have, but TPTB didn't want them to, for some odd reason. :confused:

[K^2]

Also, from what I recall from a similar discussion I read many years ago, There are certain biological traits that indicate the level of advancement of any species. For example, bi-lateral symmetry indicates advanced evolution, ie, a starfish or jellyfish with radial-symmetry can't be that advanced. Also, the development of a brain vs. a neuron-ganglia is another example. It seems to make sense that an advanced race would need a large brain protected by a skull, An advanced race would be vertibrate. It would also have fingers to allow it to manipulate the world around it, arms help with reach, it would need legs to run to escape prey, etc. The more you compare the evolutionary development of humans to that of less-advanced species, it makes sense that there would be great similarities between humans and other advanced species of other planets.
There are way too many assumptions here. First of all, there is an assumption of a terrestrial, non-flying creature. Intelligent marine animal might be better off with tentacles than arms, and it certainly wouldn't need legs. Second, we assume that there is no specialization within species. Humans have only two specializations - male and female, and even these are extremely similar in most functions. Species with warrior and worker drones would not follow the same evolutionary path. Only the queens would need large brains. Only workers would need graspers. The reason why we don't have drones among the mammals is because of the way their gender specialization works on genetic level and because of live births. Dinosaurs would not have had these limitations. They were warmblooded and some had quite impressive brain capacity. Their gender system is closer to these of the insects, and they could have evolved hive behavior, and later on sentience. It's really difficult to tell whether the mass extinction has made a difference in the big picture, but this is just one more possibility.

Keep in mind that environment consists not only of weather conditions and terrain, but also of all the other living things around. Yes, evolution tends towards optimal solutions, but it settles on local maxima, so there can be any number of locally optimal solutions for the given planet, and mass extinctions events caused by global catastrophies can force the system from one local maximum to the other. With that in mind, I wouldn't attempt to guess what the conditions for sentient creature might end up being.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

Does it bother anyone else besides me that so far 3 of the races out of the four are practically human?

The three Human like races

The Nox- Look extremely like humans

The Asgard- Now look nothing like humans because of thier genetic manipulations but used to very very long ago as seen and heard in Revelations and Fragile Ballance.

The Ancients- Are highly evolved humans that curiously predate humans.

Then there's the Furlings that have yet to be seen.



What were the 4 races Nazi's of the stars or something?

There Needs To be more Alien Biodiversity!

Oh well SG-1 Still kicks a** either way.

It's probably likely that the Furlings are very human-like as well. Considering the time frame of the Alliance, it shouldn't be hard to think that these four would make an alliance. Generally, those with similar origins/characteristics will form alliances. There's nothing racist about it.

[kymeric]

Since the ancients basically created everyone within the span of SEVERAL galaxies, no.