Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[prsweety]

I so agree Rhi,
Especially of much research online the SAM/JACK ship is huge. I would think they would care what there fans think and just define the realtionship once and for all. Sam is on Atlantis and the camera skims over to see a photo , nice one i might add, of Jack in her box. The whole deleted scene in Trio. why would they delete that scene, and keep that stupid scene of the "who would you if you had to" seriously....

it is an awfully long time to have the fans having to read between the lines. Enough is enough already.....even Amanda Tapping said at one point ..seriously just let them have a one night stand and get it over with........she said it was ridiculous like High Schoolers....crazy...i really hope they do something.....

[VSS]

I don't think TPTB thought the S/J ship would have such staying power. Although, given that it seemed to gather a lot of attention (both for and against) during the series run and the fact that it's one of the last major unfinished story arcs they have it should have been predictable that people would want it resolved. I think they might have been a little unprepared to follow up on it, for whatever reason. But definitely, way overdue.

BW is supposed to be answering questions he fielded on JM's blog over a month ago. It'll be interesting to see what he has to say considering several of them had to do with the next movie and his comments regarding writing a "romantic scene" for S/J.

[JenniferJF]

Especially of much research online the SAM/JACK ship is huge. I would think they would care what there fans think and just define the realtionship once and for all. Sam is on Atlantis and the camera skims over to see a photo , nice one i might add, of Jack in her box. The whole deleted scene in Trio. why would they delete that scene, and keep that stupid scene of the "who would you if you had to" seriously....

Welcome to GW Stacey . And hop on over to the S/J Ship Family Thread if you've got time.. It's a lot more active than this one cause it's got a lot more than discussion.

As to your points, while I hate the idea of a one night stand, cause I think it goes a lot further than lust, I agree that they need to touch on the relationship and let us know explicitly what's been going on for the last few years.

[Amaunet]

So you all believe BW that the 3rd movie will be Jack-centric and will provide shippy confirmation? I'm not so sure...
1. Why would TPTB break with the tried and tested movie model with Cam as leading man? It already proved successful twice. [B]I'm sorry but I can't really see Jack/Rick as the leading hero (look how quickly he was killed by Baa'l in "Continuum" FCOL!) IMHO the only way Rick/Jack will be the leading man is if Ben isn't available for the 3rd movie...

1. Just because the movie may be relatively Jack-centric doesn’t mean that Jack has to be the hero of it. Rather I'd just see him as becoming a vital part of the storyline...

2. Why would TPTB provide Sam/Jack confirmation in the 3rd movie? The first 2 sold brilliantly without any SJ ship.
Why risk upset the antis or Sam/other shippers when there's nothing to gain? I know lots of SJ shippers who were happy with 'the ship' they got in Continuum!

2. Why not? Its about time, BWs comment about the 'romantic scene' may not ever go into play but at least we know that their currently thinking about featuring some kind of ship/confirmation. I don't think there's enough antis out there to be worried about and if there was ship, would it really stop them from buying a SG movie anyway?

[JenniferJF]

Its about time, BWs comment about the 'romantic scene' may not ever go into play but at least we know that their currently thinking about featuring some kind of ship/confirmation. I don't think there's enough antis out there to be worried about and if there was ship, would it really stop them from buying a SG movie anyway?

I think you've made a good point, and it's really why I don't think TPTB are that worried, really, about what any group of fans want or don't want and tend to write the stories they want to see and write (beyond artistic integrity, of course). I think most antis, like most shippers, watch SG-1 first and foremost because it's entertaining and a good story. I don't think most shippers watch it just for the ship, and I'm fairly sure Antis don't watch it just for the lack of ship . And I think most fans are (despite stereotypes) mature enough to realize you can't dictate to artists what they're going to do because it's not your story - it's theirs. And so we just hang on for the ride and enjoy (or don't enjoy) the story we're told...

[scapephile]

I don't think TPTB thought the S/J ship would have such staying power. Although, given that it seemed to gather a lot of attention (both for and against) during the series run and the fact that it's one of the last major unfinished story arcs they have it should have been predictable that people would want it resolved. I think they might have been a little unprepared to follow up on it, for whatever reason. But definitely, way overdue.

BW is supposed to be answering questions he fielded on JM's blog over a month ago. It'll be interesting to see what he has to say considering several of them had to do with the next movie and his comments regarding writing a "romantic scene" for S/J.

I disagree with this. I think they dealt with it and when the show left Showtime and the overseers changed the writers got their chance to do the stories they wanted which were less character driven.If you observe the writing credits---they drastically changed at this time as well. No longer did we get the variety of experienced drama writers submitting scripts---just the in house guys. Not saying these guys aren't good because they are just more interested in action than drama. The commentaries show us that in Lost City the execs thought "throw a kiss in" whereas RDA knew how that would come and suggested a more powerful eye lock which let the characters keep their integrity with the actors showing what the dialogue would likely have lacked.I am curious as to how they are going to explain the "romantic scene" comment though.

[leiasky]

I'm rewatching season 1 with a friend who has never seen it and I think there is some merit in what you say about the writers. That and the creative producing control being RDA's for the first 8 years. It's VERY apparent that when he and Gekko (I'm looking for Gekko's address by the way, anyone have it? - I'm trying to avoid subscribing to IMDB Pro!) left, there was FAR less care taken with story and characterization believability.

[VSS]

I disagree with this. I think they dealt with it and when the show left Showtime and the overseers changed the writers got their chance to do the stories they wanted which were less character driven.If you observe the writing credits---they drastically changed at this time as well. No longer did we get the variety of experienced drama writers submitting scripts---just the in house guys. Not saying these guys aren't good because they are just more interested in action than drama. The commentaries show us that in Lost City the execs thought "throw a kiss in" whereas RDA knew how that would come and suggested a more powerful eye lock which let the characters keep their integrity with the actors showing what the dialogue would likely have lacked.I am curious as to how they are going to explain the "romantic scene" comment though.

Well, they left Showtime after season 5, and Threads was written by the current crop of writers three years later. I do agree the quality of the show overall has declined since season 8 but it's far from hopeless, as long as RCC stays out of it and it seems that he's tied up with SGU.

Definitely they're more interested in action- (as a aside I wish they would go back to writing science fiction which definitely was lacking in the later seasons- kind of an odd thing to say about a scifi show, but it lost its more cerebral aspects almost entirely).

Probably they did think they were through with the Sam/Jack story arc after Threads- but they always left their options open, too.
For example, they did keep working in those little hints here and there and I've always found that to be interesting. Why do that if they never intended to do anything further with the story line? To me it's come down to the concept that they if they wanted to resurrect the story, they could- or they could just leave it be and say it was resolved and that's that. I'm sure each one of TPTB had a different idea on it, too.

So now there's been this little burst of positive behind-the-scenes chatter about it from people involved with the show who either never talked about it or were negative. I take that to mean they're actually going to address it in the next movie, and of course, BW said he was, so...

Of course, nothing is filmed yet, and maybe they won't bring it up. But I think if AT and RDA are in the next movie, they will.

[JenniferJF]

I disagree with this. I think they dealt with it and when the show left Showtime and the overseers changed the writers got their chance to do the stories they wanted which were less character driven.If you observe the writing credits---they drastically changed at this time as well. No longer did we get the variety of experienced drama writers submitting scripts---just the in house guys. Not saying these guys aren't good because they are just more interested in action than drama. The commentaries show us that in Lost City the execs thought "throw a kiss in" whereas RDA knew how that would come and suggested a more powerful eye lock which let the characters keep their integrity with the actors showing what the dialogue would likely have lacked.I am curious as to how they are going to explain the "romantic scene" comment though.

Hmmm.. based on the work by the staff writers elsewhere, the majority of shows on Sciffy, and the underplayed fact that significant pay cuts were taken by folks involved with Sanctuary when it went to Sciffy to retain creative control, I rather suspect the change from more character-driven stories was a direct result of the new suits in charge, and not that the writers finally got to 'write the stories they wanted'. Especially because I think there have been, as pointed out with Threads, some excellent character-driven stories since then.

Either that, or it was an inability once the show needed to achieve a year-by-year renewal rather than the 4 year guarantee to take the long view of character development, so they felt everything needed to be fast and immediate and long character-driven arcs became too complicated.

I do think there were some great character undercurrents after S4, I just don't think they were as blatant and obvious as they'd been before, which I think also suggests it was the change in the type of 'network memos' they were receiving than the writers finally getting free rein.

[scapephile]

If you listen to the commentaries for the SciFi seasons there is glee at getting to do what they want and overt scoffing at having to "deal" with anything character driven.Even though it is an SGA ep "Trio" is a prime example.It was supposed to be a bottle ep designed to save money yet they got so carried away with making the set more elaborate and more stunts etc they went seriously overbudget. All because they couldn't concieve an ep centered around three people stuck and talking.Even in some of the Showtime eps they hated ideas from RDA and other producers that were not to do with explosions or stunts.

[JenniferJF]

If you listen to the commentaries for the SciFi seasons there is glee at getting to do what they want and overt scoffing at having to "deal" with anything character driven.Even though it is an SGA ep "Trio" is a prime example.It was supposed to be a bottle ep designed to save money yet they got so carried away with making the set more elaborate and more stunts etc they went seriously overbudget. All because they couldn't concieve an ep centered around three people stuck and talking.Even in some of the Showtime eps they hated ideas from RDA and other producers that were not to do with explosions or stunts.

I've never really noticed the difference in comments. I have noticed in general the commentaries tend to shy away from most serious conversations, but I always felt that was a natural reticence on the part of the artists to discuss the serious aspect of their work directly as I've noticed that tendency on other commentaries as well. And I guess part of the problem is I like many of the episodes after S5 and find quite a few excellent character episodes as well. Probably as many, and some of them are imho far more subtle and 'deep' than much of the earlier stuff (Redemption and Grace come immediately to mind) so that may be part of it.

But, of course, everyone's viewpoint and desires in TV differs. Because I honestly find Stargate generally to have better and more real characters than most TV shows, even after S5.

[sg-1fanintn]

I don't think TPTB thought the S/J ship would have such staying power. Although, given that it seemed to gather a lot of attention (both for and against) during the series run and the fact that it's one of the last major unfinished story arcs they have it should have been predictable that people would want it resolved. I think they might have been a little unprepared to follow up on it, for whatever reason. But definitely, way overdue.

BW is supposed to be answering questions he fielded on JM's blog over a month ago. It'll be interesting to see what he has to say considering several of them had to do with the next movie and his comments regarding writing a "romantic scene" for S/J.

And if they didn't think it would have so much staying power, don't you imagine our parties and persistence four years later surprises them?

It's a sustained marketing campaign on our part...

And major story arcs should always be resolved...

[VSS]

Well, I see a couple of fairly direct follow-up questions on his blog asking for clarification on these points, so we'll see if he's so inclined to be slightly more forthcoming. Although the fact that they're currently writing the 3rd movie may require him to continue to be more circumspect.

And JM has indicated before that there's a lack of agreement between TPTB on the matter. When asked about it in conjunction with the intended Trio scene, he said "It depends which PTB your talking about...we can't even agree on lunch...." or words to that effect. So. No. Not surprise there either.

Well, rats. It looks like Joe wanted to go with the "more circumspect" route, huh?

[leiasky]

Well, good news is Carl and Brad are writing the 3rd movie. I believe both of them are pro Sam and Jack, yes?

[JenniferJF]

Well, good news is Carl and Brad are writing the 3rd movie. I believe both of them are pro Sam and Jack, yes?

We don't really know about CB, I think. But he's written a bunch of the shippier in general SGA eps and he was an Executive Producer and sometime writer on, among other things, Dr. Quinn including the last seasons when they were married and had kids...

Neither of these things are, imho, bad indicators, especially as CB hasn't really written for SG-1 before except once and thus isn't an obvious choice if what they wanted was an SG-1 expert... BW gives them that, so you gotta wonder what CB brings to the team.