Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[atfan]

Kelsie...I have not yet seen Unending...but people who have tell me they see it differently. Maybe this will make you feel better. I'm putting it in spoilers for those who don't want to know until it airs in the U.S.

Spoiler:

Sam takes up the cello while trapped on the vessel. This is a very subtle nod to the Sam/Jack relationship. We know that Jack loves classical music. Taking up the cello was Sam's way of being as close to him as she could be. Perhaps she dreamed that once she solved the riddle that had the crew trapped, she'd be able to go home and show Jack what she had learned. And notice how sad she was when playing it. She thought of him as she played.

Also...Sam didn't hook up with any of the other men. That kiss from Cam was just a holiday peck, and Vala got one too...so romantically, they meant nothing...

As for being a bummer of an ending episode, I agree (from what I've read). But those who have seen it tell me it does no harm to the S/J Ship.

My friend, JenniferJF, wrote a remarkable piece of fan fiction that deals with Unending. It's so great I nominated it for a Stargate Fan Award this year. You can find this story, Marking Time, at: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3456353/1/

I agree

Spoiler:

In fact you also have shipper music and the fact that for a long time Sam is portrayed as really sad and driven to get home she never gives up even after 50 years why work so hard unless you had something really great to go back for as for the Sam Tealc thing well I do think Jack would have wanted her to have someone if he couldn't be there and it is not overt you can see or not your choice but it is not present at first

[trinity3]

I'm really looking forward to Continuum but frankly I've been so disappointed in the past (prime example) Trio, where TPTB hint at finally giving shippers at least a taste of what they want and then take it away. So I'm not allowing myself to expect any S/J resolution or acknowledgement from Continuum. I'm just planning to enjoy a great movie.:

[sg-1fanintn]

I got a bit of a chuckle out of your comments, since Sam never went out on one date in the entire 10 years of the series - except Pete. There were certainly no "billions of guys", let alone more than the one. And as for Daniel and McKay, the important word in your comment is she "likes" Daniel and McKay. She "loves" Daniel like a brother, not like a lover. And she has a love/hate relationship with McKay - also more like a brother or cousin or some such thing, but certainly not as a "lover". Not understanding where you got such an idea that there was anything more than that from her to either of them. Other men have been attracted to her, and she may have been mildly attracted to them, but nothing ever came of those, and those guys all died. The only one she's ever really felt "love" for (besides Pete, and I'm not sure she really loved him, as much as she was in love with the idea of being in love with him) is Jack, even though she was never allowed to say it or express it. Apparently the reason Jack and Sam can't be "together" is because the producers and other powers that be won't let them be together, so we have to imagine them being together from the little bits of hints we've gotten along the way. The producers etc. are too afraid of offending the viewers that don't want any notion of romance between them touching their otherwise pristine TV series, but don't mind offending those of us who would like more hints of romance and togetherness.

Over the three years I have been here, there have been several attempts to start other S/J threads...but we always drift back to the S/J Ship Family.

[JackandSamAddict]

Over the three years I have been here, there have been several attempts to start other S/J threads...but we always drift back to the S/J Ship Family.

Yes...and plus we can squee there...you can't squee here...

[sg-1fanintn]

Yes...and plus we can squee there...you can't squee here...

WARNING: JackandSamAddict may squee without notice!!!

WARNING: sg-1fanintn may squee without notice!!!

[JackandSamAddict]

WARNING: JackandSamAddict may squee without notice!!!

WARNING: sg-1fanintn may squee without notice!!!

Seriously...squee happens!

[scapephile]

I'm really looking forward to Continuum but frankly I've been so disappointed in the past (prime example) Trio, where TPTB hint at finally giving shippers at least a taste of what they want and then take it away. So I'm not allowing myself to expect any S/J resolution or acknowledgement from Continuum. I'm just planning to enjoy a great movie.:

I agree with your plan. I had high hopes for SG1 to gives little nods to S/J and they for the most part ignored them.It always amazes me the writers of shows (especially scifi) think no one is interested in anything but cool cgi and explosions! Farscape is the rarity IMO.

[Lizlove]

I agree with your plan. I had high hopes for SG1 to gives little nods to S/J and they for the most part ignored them.It always amazes me the writers of shows (especially scifi) think no one is interested in anything but cool cgi and explosions! Farscape is the rarity IMO.

Personally I think they just have a problem with romance because they're good at writing friendship.

[scapephile]

There is a perception that relationships are boring hence the tendency to have the male lead Kirk women or have no relationships which can work but after a few years not realistic unless you show some friendship outside of the plot.Having them be at dinner (the whole team) or doing something which gets interrupted does work because we get a glimpse of real life for the characters. We know these characters spend most of their time working because of the nature of their jobs so having them be a bit discomforted away from work is very real and when the writers choose to they do it well.Listening to the commentaries they seem to think S/J kissing would bethe fix in some cases and the actord changed it to make it better like in Beneath the Surface.

[sg-1fanintn]

There is a perception that relationships are boring hence the tendency to have the male lead Kirk women or have no relationships which can work but after a few years not realistic unless you show some friendship outside of the plot.Having them be at dinner (the whole team) or doing something which gets interrupted does work because we get a glimpse of real life for the characters. We know these characters spend most of their time working because of the nature of their jobs so having them be a bit discomforted away from work is very real and when the writers choose to they do it well.Listening to the commentaries they seem to think S/J kissing would bethe fix in some cases and the actord changed it to make it better like in Beneath the Surface.

But at the same time, they never Kirked either one of them throughout the series. Jack had three liaisons with women during the whole show: Kynthia (not long after he and Sam met) and Laira (just as S/J were beginning to confront the feelings growing between them) and Kerri. I still maintain he allowed himself to take comfort from Kerri to block out the pain of Sam and Pete. After all, he didn't start seeing her until after Sam accepted Pete's marriage proposal.

As for Sam, she had a flirtation with Narim, a close relationship (but not sex!!!) with Orlin...and her relationship with Pete. And we all know that she only allowed herself to become entangled with Pete because she was trying to move away from her feelings for Jack.

So...all through the show...they seemed to be slowly working toward an end...getting Sam and Jack together.

Then RDA and Michael Greenburg left as exec. producers...and the issue remains unconfirmed almost three years later.

Sigh...so what's the point of keeping them apart?

Just sayin'.

[SamJackShipLover]

*agrees with Melissa*

[VSS]

Hi guys. I've never posted on this thread before but I know some of you!

Personally I think they just have a problem with romance because they're good at writing friendship.

I think they were good at writing S/J friendship before season 4. After season 4 the writers had a choice- if they wanted continued romantic undertones they couldn't let Sam and Jack be friends again, not like they were before because now they're self-conscious and therefore guarded around each other. For instance, Jack never calls her "Sam" again. The other choice was that they really could have left it all in the room and a lot of viewers expected that they would. But they didn't.

I guess it's also more evidence that the writers had a romantic relationship in mind for them all along, or else they ruined a good friendship for nothing. I personally think they're better writers than to let it slide, but it has been a very long time and axing the scene from Trio (yet leaving the Pitt/Clooney discussion) does make one wonder.

*agrees with Melissa*

I agree with Melissa, too!

Maybe the writers need to be shown that it's not that scary and will not trash the show or either character. So here's an example:

A little OT BSG:

Spoiler:

From The Hub:
Adama steps from a raptor after resigning his commission and traveling through enemy space to find President Roslin.
Roslin: Bill. I love you.
Adama: It's about time. (Uh, does that sound like Jack, or what?)
They hug. Fans say "Awwww.." Credits roll.
Elapsed time- maybe 45 seconds.

Next episode: Adama regains his Admiralty in the face of impending doom for humanity.

There, now was that so hard?

Also, I just noticed the anti-shipper thread hasn't had a post in THREE MONTHS. Just sayin'.

[Lizlove]

Hi guys. I've never posted on this thread before but I know some of you!



I think they did before season 4. After season 4 they couldn't let Sam and Jack get together and couldn't let them be friends again either, not like they were before because now they're self-conscious and therefore guarded around each other. For instance, Jack never calls her "Sam" again. This is one of the reasons why they really do need to get together in the end, otherwise they ruined a good friendship for nothing.

I agree with Melissa, too!

Maybe the writers need to be shown that it's not that scary and will not trash the show or either character. So here's an example:

A little OT BSG:

Spoiler:

From The Hub:
Adama steps from a raptor after resigning his commission and traveling through enemy space to find President Roslin.
Roslin: Bill. I love you.
Adama: It's about time. (Uh, does that sound like Jack, or what?)
They hug. Fans say "Awwww.." Credits roll.
Elapsed time- maybe 45 seconds.

Next episode: Adama regains his Admiralty in the face of impending doom for humanity.

There, now was that so hard?

It's not that it's hard, it's just that they think they will lose viewers if they put too much romance.
Look at Continuum: stargate fans are missing their favorite TV show and they have a movie; I understand that most of them don't want a precious minute being wasted on romance (although I do not agree with it)

By friendship I didn't mean between Sam and Jack but between Sam/Daniel, Jack/Daniel, Jack/T, Sam/T,...

My take on the whole relationship
Season 1 + 2: attraction (The Broca Devide), getting to know you, finding their place on the team, friendships developing (Solitudes, Secrets) ---> although Jack shows his emotions regarding Sam more visibly (Singularity, In The Line Of Duty)
Season 3 + 4: romantic feelings devoloping on Sam's side (A Hundred Days) + afterwards their admissions to each other (Divide and Conquer)
Season 5 + 6: realizing that that they're going too far, too fast --> 'moments' here in there like a head on a shoulder in Metamorphosis or a plea in Frozen (+ Paradise Lost)
Begin 7: getting more 'mature' about their feelings, perhaps more open to each other too; they know it's there but they can't do anything about it (Grace, Heroes, Death Knell)
End 7 + 8: being awkward because of Pete but Sam still showing emotions for Jack (The Lost City) and Jack for Sam (New Order) ---> afterwards it goes a bit down but the camaraderie seems to be there (It's Good To Be King, Sacrifices)

And then Jack/RDA left...

So yeah, I think now is the stage: finally giving into each other and having a relationship that has been growing for 7 years. Nothing can keep them apart anymore so it's only logical.

Hum, I don't really know where all that came from *scratches head*

[VSS]

I don't think they are worried about losing viewers. If they were, they'd have given it up after season 4. The highest-rated eps were loaded with ship, I'm sure they noticed that!

You did nicely describe J & S romance well, but their friendship suffered for it. I just think about the first time Daniel "died" and how Jack acted when Daniel did die (and ascend) and the second time around he doesn't attempt to comfort Sam at all, though he could have told her what he knew. In Metamorphosis, Grace and Death Knell he's so deeply conflicted about being near her its painful to watch- but in ItLoD he's just plain worried. It makes for great angst though, and I don't think it could have been written any other way once the writers made the choice to continue their romance. That's how you know they did get together at the end of Threads- they finally look relaxed in each others presence. Well, that and that sexy voice I never heard Sam use before.

I agree that the camaraderie was coming back in season eight, primarily because they gave up on each other (or so we thought! Ha!). So now I would just like to see them happy to be around each other again. And they could do some CGI at the same time- like the sparks in Moebius or the wall in Divide and Conquer. Everybody wins!

[scapephile]

I think RDA and Greenberg understood the importance of character continuity.Listening to the comments on the various commentaries all little "moments" are credited to them which I found interesting. They didn't want big scenes just nods to the fans that the feelings still existed. You get the idea that Brad Wright didn't get it from the tone he uses when when mentioning the reason for the scene is Rick thought it should be there.Then again I was in line at Comic Con a couple of years ago and these guys behind me thought all fans were united in wanting to see P90s used again in episodes.When I turned around with an incredulous look the one goes "or not". I was reminded of Chris Carter saying once people only watched the X Files to be scared! I think if the writers approached relationships as organic not plot points neither friendship or romance would be handled so clumsily.