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iLemon
March 15th, 2005, 06:53 AM
When the Jack had all the ancients knowledge downloaded into his head, he dialed to the Asgards which requires 8 chevrons. He made a power supply that would have enough energy to dial 8 chevrons. But since then they've always dialed to the Asgards, how?
They didn't know how to make the device work without the ancients knowledge.

GateFanTLH
March 15th, 2005, 06:58 AM
Maybe the Asgards gave them some gate addresses that would help them reach them without having to use 8 and extra power? They might have outposts and ships orbiting other planets that have gates closer to earth and those are the places they dial to reach the asgard and communicate to them.

Bobby\Jolinar
March 15th, 2005, 07:10 AM
They can contact them through the hall of thor's might or the great hall in k'tau. Remember the ep Red Sky? They make mention later too that they go there to contact the asgards but they were too busy and had no success that time.

Wass
March 15th, 2005, 08:31 AM
I’m sure the asgard gave Jack a communication device to contact them.

Lord Osiris
March 15th, 2005, 09:01 AM
8 chevrons are for the dial for other nearby galaxy's like pegasus and the othalla galaxy (home galaxy of Asgard) the 9th chevron imo is the chevron to dial the gate to the end of the known universe cause the univers is expanding an few centimeters per year but that is only speculation

iLemon
March 16th, 2005, 04:55 AM
And I'm asking where thay get the energy from to dial to Othalla. And if they were able to dial to Othalla, and still are then should be able to dial to Pegasus.

Steam
March 17th, 2005, 07:37 AM
We dont contact them they contact us ;) lol Sarcasm here

Elite Anubis Guard
March 17th, 2005, 07:47 AM
and dont we use radio to get to em aswell. or subspace comunications or something!

Spimman
March 17th, 2005, 10:02 AM
8 chevrons are for the dial for other nearby galaxy's like pegasus and the othalla galaxy (home galaxy of Asgard) the 9th chevron imo is the chevron to dial the gate to the end of the known universe cause the univers is expanding an few centimeters per year but that is only speculation

How would there be a stargate there? I wonder if the 9th Chevron will remain a mystery, like the furlings.

VirtualCLD
March 17th, 2005, 10:11 AM
we have never dialled the Asgards in their home galaxy without a power boost (aka Fifth Race and Point of View? ). Everytime we have tried to make contact with them since has been using an Asgard communication device and most travel has been via ship, not the Stargate.

Sebilrazen
March 17th, 2005, 10:52 AM
8 chevrons are for the dial for other nearby galaxy's like pegasus and the othalla galaxy (home galaxy of Asgard) the 9th chevron imo is the chevron to dial the gate to the end of the known universe cause the univers is expanding an few centimeters per year but that is only speculation


A few centimeters? That's funny. Even if the universe is expanding at .01% of the speed of light, due to the inflationary model, that would be alot of centimeters.

300,000 km/s is the speed of light. So .01% would be 30 km/s. So 30 km/s * 365 days/year * 24 hr/day * 60 minutes/hr * 60 seconds/minute * 1000 m/km * 100 cm/m = 94,608,000,000,000 cm/year. And that would only be the 'radial' expansion, the real 'width' expansion would be twice that.

Master Chief Jack O Niell
March 17th, 2005, 02:30 PM
How fast does the stargate make someone travel?

Freyrs
March 17th, 2005, 02:36 PM
How fast does the stargate make someone travel?
The Stargate is pretty instantaneous from our perspective. I'm sure that there is some sort of time elapsed, but considering the wormhole is out of space-time its probally insignifigant.

In the movie it takes a long time as the wormhole is "tracking" but that (speculation) is probally due to tech they were using which was innacurate.

Steam
March 17th, 2005, 02:56 PM
The Stargate is pretty instantaneous from our perspective. I'm sure that there is some sort of time elapsed, but considering the wormhole is out of space-time its probally insignifigant.

In the movie it takes a long time as the wormhole is "tracking" but that (speculation) is probally due to tech they were using which was innacurate.
There is, cant be sure of witch episode, but carter said that if they manage to shut off the gate after like .3 seconds or something the person/object traveling along the wormwhole would materialise in deep space, or fail to dematerialse in either case they would end up in deep space, so i think the futher away the planet the slightly longer it takes

MylesSGC
March 18th, 2005, 12:54 AM
We don't really contact them that much i didn't think they just have a habbit of whipping people up on to their ship when they want to talk :p Most people would come and knock on the door. But oh no, not the asguard, they have to abduct people instead... Also don't the SGC have one of those white stones that thor likes so much?

Sebilrazen
March 18th, 2005, 06:27 AM
We don't really contact them that much i didn't think they just have a habbit of whipping people up on to their ship when they want to talk :p Most people would come and knock on the door. But oh no, not the asguard, they have to abduct people instead... Also don't the SGC have one of those white stones that thor likes so much?

Yeah, Thor gave O'neil a communication stone as a thank you gift in one episode.

Cymro
March 18th, 2005, 07:12 AM
It takes a few seconds, depending on the distance. In season 1 and the film they used to have an effects shot tracking the wormhole's path.

Hywel
March 18th, 2005, 07:39 AM
There is, cant be sure of witch episode, but carter said that if they manage to shut off the gate after like .3 seconds or something the person/object traveling along the wormwhole would materialise in deep space, or fail to dematerialse in either case they would end up in deep space, so i think the futher away the planet the slightly longer it takes

The episode was Red Sky - Carter shut the gate down prematurely in order for the Maclarium to materialise inside the K'tau sun. This proves it isn't insantaneous - she had a countdown to when the Maclarium would pass through the sun.

Sebilrazen
March 18th, 2005, 07:58 AM
The episode was Red Sky - Carter shut the gate down prematurely in order for the Maclarium to materialise inside the K'tau sun. This proves it isn't insantaneous - she had a countdown to when the Maclarium would pass through the sun.

Plus in episodes, like 'The Fifth Race', and the movie. They show that the SGC is able to track a person/package that is en route between 2 gates.

6thMonolith
April 8th, 2005, 03:02 PM
Yep. Its instantanious in the way that it takes about five seconds to get to where you're going, just about no matter how far away the planet is. Unless the CGI says differently...

Jarnin
April 9th, 2005, 06:17 AM
The interesting thing about the 8 chevron addresses is that there can only be 38 of them. This means there can only be 38 galaxies we can travel to with an 8 chevron address. The universe contains billions of galaxies, so only being able to travel to the closest 38 would kind of stink, from an explorer's perspective.

Anubis69
April 9th, 2005, 08:28 AM
[QUOTE]The episode was Red Sky - Carter shut the gate down prematurely in order for the Maclarium to materialise inside the K'tau sun. This proves it isn't insantaneous - she had a countdown to when the Maclarium would pass through the sun.[QUOTE]
Plus in episodes, like 'The Fifth Race', and the movie. They show that the SGC is able to track a person/package that is en route between 2 gates.
I always kinda had a problem with that. firstly, they're using a 2D glass map to track an object through 3 dimensional space. My understanding was it was instantaneous travel to the other planet, but that may be from the perspective of the traveller given relativity and all, thats if it even applies in this case.

And i think the Asgard communication device Thor gives Jack only works when Thor's ship is in orbit, that's why we have to use things like the hall of thor's might and (can't remember the name of the episode) in the case of when we had to contact Thor because of Loki, use the Asgard ship's communications.

Speaking of that device in "The Fifth Race", was that the basis of ZPM's? it does bare a striking resemblance and glow when turned on!! it could also explain why we seem to know so much in S8 despite having only a few months to study a completely new piece of alien technology.

iLemon
April 15th, 2005, 07:06 AM
The interesting thing about the 8 chevron addresses is that there can only be 38 of them. This means there can only be 38 galaxies we can travel to with an 8 chevron address. The universe contains billions of galaxies, so only being able to travel to the closest 38 would kind of stink, from an explorer's perspective.

there are several billion trillion ways to arrange 38 chevrons, so you're wrong.

Jarnin
April 15th, 2005, 02:08 PM
there are several billion trillion ways to arrange 38 chevrons, so you're wrong.
No, I'm not. First of all, there aren't 38 chevrons on the gate, there are 9. There are 38 symbols on the gate, which is where I think you got confused.

There are 6 symbols used for a stargate address. That gives you exactly 1,987,690,320 possible combinations for an address in a galaxy, if you only use the symbols once each (which the show seems to follow).

The galactic distance modifier (used in The Fifth Race and Rising) is the seventh symbol input when traveling to another galaxy. Since there are only 38 symbols on the stargate (minus the point of origin), you have only 38 symbols you can input for that distance modifier.

That means that the 8th chevron can only send you to the closest 38 galaxies. less if you're in Pegasus, because they only have 36 symbols on their gates.

6thMonolith
April 15th, 2005, 03:47 PM
No, I'm not. First of all, there aren't 38 chevrons on the gate, there are 9. There are 38 symbols on the gate, which is where I think you got confused.

There are 6 symbols used for a stargate address. That gives you exactly 1,987,690,320 possible combinations for an address in a galaxy, if you only use the symbols once each (which the show seems to follow).

The galactic distance modifier (used in The Fifth Race and Rising) is the seventh symbol input when traveling to another galaxy. Since there are only 38 symbols on the stargate (minus the point of origin), you have only 38 symbols you can input for that distance modifier.

That means that the 8th chevron can only send you to the closest 38 galaxies. less if you're in Pegasus, because they only have 36 symbols on their gates.

That means that you only have 38 possible 8-chevron addresses on a single seven-chevron address. If your address is 1-2-3-4-5-6-PoO. To change that to an 8 chevron address, you have 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-PoO or 1-2-3-4-5-6-8-PoO, or 1-2-3-4-5-6-9-PoO, etc. That means that you'd have 38 more possible addresses when using a single six-chevron address. It would be even less, if you cant use the same symbol twice.

Using an 8-chevron address would add quite a few more addresses, not just 38. Thats quite a few extra addresses.
(Pegasus only has 36? didn't know that.)

SG Zero
April 16th, 2005, 01:44 AM
That means that you only have 38 possible 8-chevron addresses on a single seven-chevron address. If your address is 1-2-3-4-5-6-PoO. To change that to an 8 chevron address, you have 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-PoO or 1-2-3-4-5-6-8-PoO, or 1-2-3-4-5-6-9-PoO, etc. That means that you'd have 38 more possible addresses when using a single six-chevron address. It would be even less, if you cant use the same symbol twice.

Using an 8-chevron address would add quite a few more addresses, not just 38. Thats quite a few extra addresses.
(Pegasus only has 36? didn't know that.)

The way to calculate this is through permutation analysis with factorials. What is a factorial? Arg.. when you have 2! = 1x2 = 2.... if you have 5! = 1x2x3x4x5 = 120... If not, google it.... You'll find the rest of this. This is using the permutation equation n!/(n-k)!... n being the number of choices you have, and k being the number of choices you need. I'm assuming order doesn't matter.... So find a calculator... I'm sure window provides one... Use scientific mode... n=39... 39 choices regardless of PoO.... k=7 (standard gate address), or k=8 (next galaxy).... Plug that into the eqn, so 39!/(39-7)! or 39!/(39-8)! That will be the number of combinations of symbols needed for a gate address. This should come out to the power 10-12 or so... this is about ten trillion-quadrillion combinations... for 7, 8 respectively (billion is a power of 9). So yes, billion-million was a close estimate... Anyway, if you want to know the difference 1 chevron will do, well thats still something to the power of 12... Which goes back to whosever's point of only being 38 galaxies... There are 2.4x10^12 more combinations for that one extra chevron, not 38....

If you're concerned about the PoO, use 38... You'll drop by a power or two... I feel bad for whatever Ancient had to lay these gates down.

Lord Zedd
April 16th, 2005, 04:23 AM
why has the pegasus galaxy only 36 and not 38

_Owen_
April 16th, 2005, 06:41 AM
[QUOTE=Originally Posted by Steam]
There is, cant be sure of witch episode, but carter said that if they manage to shut off the gate after like .3 seconds or something the person/object traveling along the wormwhole would materialise in deep space, or fail to dematerialse in either case they would end up in deep space, so i think the futher away the planet the slightly longer it takes
[QUOTE]The episode was Red Sky - Carter shut the gate down prematurely in order for the Maclarium to materialise inside the K'tau sun. This proves it isn't insantaneous - she had a countdown to when the Maclarium would pass through the sun.[\QUOTE]

the guy that she was trying to kill or whatever, i don't remember the episode to well, would not have rematerialized in the K'tau sun, his energy might have been released at that point in space but for rematerialization you need an event horizon which is created by the stargate.

_Owen_
April 16th, 2005, 06:59 AM
as for the number of eight chevron galaxies, you are assuming that there is one symbol assigned to one galaxy, this is not necesarily true, the possible permutations of the symbols on the gate is more in the neighborhood of 5.2^44 it is something like that, that is a lot of possible gates. think of it like this a seven chevron adress could go 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, since you are only traveling inside a single galaxy, there is no marker for which galaxy it is, if you dial an eight chevron adress it could go like this, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, now 8 is your point of origin, so what you are assuming is that the seventh chevron in an eight chevron lock determines the galaxy, this is not true all of the chevrons could determine the galaxy, there is no reason that they can specify a point in space and determine a galaxy at the same time. for example, if you live in north america you have 10 digit phone number, 7 digits for the number and 3 for the area code, now obviously you can tell that the area code will determine the area but the next three numbers are significant also, in any given area you will have all similar digits, for example in one area code you might have, 883, 884, 780, and 508, now as these numbers also represent the house that you are calling they represent as well which area within the area code you are calling, they have two functions, when it seems quite obvious that they only have one. this could also be the case with the stargate.

SG Zero
April 16th, 2005, 09:48 AM
as for the number of eight chevron galaxies, you are assuming that there is one symbol assigned to one galaxy, this is not necesarily true, the possible permutations of the symbols on the gate is more in the neighborhood of 5.2^44 it is something like that, that is a lot of possible gates. think of it like this a seven chevron adress could go 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, since you are only traveling inside a single galaxy, there is no marker for which galaxy it is, if you dial an eight chevron adress it could go like this, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, now 8 is your point of origin, so what you are assuming is that the seventh chevron in an eight chevron lock determines the galaxy, this is not true all of the chevrons could determine the galaxy, there is no reason that they can specify a point in space and determine a galaxy at the same time. for example, if you live in north america you have 10 digit phone number, 7 digits for the number and 3 for the area code, now obviously you can tell that the area code will determine the area but the next three numbers are significant also, in any given area you will have all similar digits, for example in one area code you might have, 883, 884, 780, and 508, now as these numbers also represent the house that you are calling they represent as well which area within the area code you are calling, they have two functions, when it seems quite obvious that they only have one. this could also be the case with the stargate.

EX: You have 3 possiblities/choices: 1, 2, 3.... You only need 2: 12, 13, 21, 23, 31, 32... 3!/(3-2)! = 6. Order does not matter. Now, if you are making a point of repeating symbols/number that argument is valid, but I do not believe it to be the case. 11, 22, 33.... 3 added, but this is a very small pool with very few positions.

The permutation eqn simply regards all the possible combinations of the 39 chevrons with no particular order. It does not at all indicate that one symbol controls one galaxy. Your point is valid that there should be more perumations because order does matter now if the 7th symbol could be repeated.... That calculation simply provides any combination of 7-8 a pool of 39. Those numbers provided are all the possible number of permutations it is the nCr or nPr... I'm not sure.... one of those order does matter, but regardless.... The point remains. I will admit though I'm not sure if you can reuse symbols... I do not think that is the case though.

You make the point of it repeating in the final case.... Since if the original 7 had one repeat, it would not make sense since it needs 7 different symbols or the location would be flawed.... plus the DHD seem to be press once only furthering my belief. As having one of the present numbers of the dialing sequence repeat, meaning 7 are original and the 8th one (being the 7th one....) is repeated. There is only one digit that creates more combinations; if symbols can be reused. I'm not sure which calculation to use to factor it in at the moment, but good observation!

Before we lose complete sight of the of the original question, this by no means relates to the number of Stargates or galaxies the Stargate can reach since a specific combination is needed. There could be 4-5 galaxies with Stargates for all we know.

_Owen_
April 16th, 2005, 09:48 PM
That is a good point, and, yes, the posible number of galaxies with gates could be extremly large.

Owen Macri

Jarnin
April 17th, 2005, 02:14 AM
That means that you only have 38 possible 8-chevron addresses on a single seven-chevron address. If your address is 1-2-3-4-5-6-PoO. To change that to an 8 chevron address, you have 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-PoO or 1-2-3-4-5-6-8-PoO, or 1-2-3-4-5-6-9-PoO, etc. That means that you'd have 38 more possible addresses when using a single six-chevron address. It would be even less, if you cant use the same symbol twice.

Using an 8-chevron address would add quite a few more addresses, not just 38. Thats quite a few extra addresses.
(Pegasus only has 36? didn't know that.)
You know, I've been thinking that the distance modifier was like a galactic symbol, similar to a point of origin symbol. I don't know where I got that idea, but you're right. If 7th symbol in an 8 symbol address is a distance modifier, then you'd be able to travel quite far away.

If the base distance multiplied is the diameter of the Milky Way (~100,000 LY), and the symbols for the distance modifiers were exponents, an 8 symbol address could cover the entire universe with alot of room to spare.

Hmmm.

_Owen_
May 16th, 2005, 04:32 PM
Ya, I have been thinking along the lines of this. Instead of the eighth symbol being a specific symbol for a specific galaxy, it represents a distance, the stargate then claculates this distance so one symbol could represent a group of galaxies, instead of a single one.

Owen Macri